424 isn’t a balanced formation

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vancity eagle
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by vancity eagle »

The YeyeMan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:02 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
Then what to do with Kelechi? play him on the wing?

Nigeria will eventually need to show a bit more creativity centrally. Perhaps a 4-2-3-1 is better suited for that but more important is the role of players.
as much as I love Iheanacho, and he is definately our best finisher and one of our smartest players, I am not sure he would be in our most optimal starting 11. That his touch is just not good enough.

Our optimal formation is Osimehn up top flanked by two effective wingers with a true attacking midfielder behind Osimehn. The AM must be able to dribble and drive forwards, have the passing range, ball control and intelligence and ability to score. If possible be able to contribute defensively as well. THat man seems to me to be Aribo. Funny he is yet to play that position for SE, yet he wears the #10. The answer has been staring us in the face all along.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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4-4-2 can be played, you just need to know how to do it so you don’t get over-run in the middle. Lots of options:

Play a midfield diamond where the wide players tuck in.
As one striker to drop in to the middle and make a 4-5-1 in the defensive phase.
Ask the middle two to both sit back.
Ask one of the fullbacks to operate as a third midfileder, Canelo style.
And more.

The point is, it can be done and if Egu feels its the best formation for Nigeria, there are ways to do it.

Indeed, the beauty of the 4–4-2 is it is often seen as the most flexible, fluid formation.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by The YeyeMan »

waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:58 pm 4-4-2 can be played, you just need to know how to do it so you don’t get over-run in the middle. Lots of options:

Play a midfield diamond where the wide players tuck in.
As one striker to drop in to the middle and make a 4-5-1 in the defensive phase.
Ask the middle two to both sit back.
Ask one of the fullbacks to operate as a third midfileder, Canelo style.
And more.

The point is, it can be done and if Egu feels its the best formation for Nigeria, there are ways to do it.

Indeed, the beauty of the 4–4-2 is it is often seen as the most flexible, fluid formation.
Yes. Although Egu's 4-4-2 is different to the variations you've described above.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
A team formation is set up to maximize the potentials of the players that are available to the team. FC. Porto, who is one of the biggest clubs in Europe plays a 4 4 2, and they are doing well with it. Nigeria is a team traditionally known for attacking football, with quick interchange of passes between the midfielders and then diagonal to the wings. At the 1994 era, Westerhof played Oliseh and Siasia as his midfielders, while Finidi and Amunike operated from the wing together with Amokachi and Yekini as the strikers, and it worked. We just have to use a playing pattern that works well for our players and not try to copy another system that might be alien to us. Under Gernot Rohr, we all saw how complicated things became.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by john12 »

onovo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:44 pm
john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
A team formation is set up to maximize the potentials of the players that are available to the team. FC. Porto, who is one of the biggest clubs in Europe plays a 4 4 2, and they are doing well with it. Nigeria is a team traditionally known for attacking football, with quick interchange of passes between the midfielders and then diagonal to the wings. At the 1994 era, Westerhof played Oliseh and Siasia as his midfielders, while Finidi and Amunike operated from the wing together with Amokachi and Yekini as the strikers, and it worked. We just have to use a playing pattern that works well for our players and not try to copy another system that might be alien to us. Under Gernot Rohr, we all saw how complicated things became.

You can play 2 strikers upfront and sacrifice a winger, or play 2 wingers and sacrifice a striker. But, you should never compromise your 3rd midfielder because you will be punished especially as your wingers aren’t great crossers..
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by fabio »

I believe I over heard Eguavoen say: Awoniyi is the sole striker.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by waka-man »

The YeyeMan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:15 pm
waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:58 pm 4-4-2 can be played, you just need to know how to do it so you don’t get over-run in the middle. Lots of options:

Play a midfield diamond where the wide players tuck in.
As one striker to drop in to the middle and make a 4-5-1 in the defensive phase.
Ask the middle two to both sit back.
Ask one of the fullbacks to operate as a third midfileder, Canelo style.
And more.

The point is, it can be done and if Egu feels its the best formation for Nigeria, there are ways to do it.

Indeed, the beauty of the 4–4-2 is it is often seen as the most flexible, fluid formation.
Yes. Although Egu's 4-4-2 is different to the variations you've described above.
Exactly.
Eguavon bets that Ndidi can shield the defence effectively and that opponents will be drawn to our extreme width and context the battle here.
Egypt feel for that. Sudan didn’t. But Sudan just didn’t have the technical ability to exploit their numerical advantage in the middle.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by The YeyeMan »

waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:24 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:15 pm
waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:58 pm 4-4-2 can be played, you just need to know how to do it so you don’t get over-run in the middle. Lots of options:

Play a midfield diamond where the wide players tuck in.
As one striker to drop in to the middle and make a 4-5-1 in the defensive phase.
Ask the middle two to both sit back.
Ask one of the fullbacks to operate as a third midfileder, Canelo style.
And more.

The point is, it can be done and if Egu feels its the best formation for Nigeria, there are ways to do it.

Indeed, the beauty of the 4–4-2 is it is often seen as the most flexible, fluid formation.
Yes. Although Egu's 4-4-2 is different to the variations you've described above.
Exactly.
Eguavon bets that Ndidi can shield the defence effectively and that opponents will be drawn to our extreme width and context the battle here.
Egypt feel for that. Sudan didn’t. But Sudan just didn’t have the technical ability to exploit their numerical advantage in the middle.
Yup. And if we go deep in this tournament we'll be up against teams who do possess that technical ability.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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The YeyeMan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:02 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
Then what to do with Kelechi? play him on the wing?

Nigeria will eventually need to show a bit more creativity centrally. Perhaps a 4-2-3-1 is better suited for that but more important is the role of players.


Exactly.

Formations are nothing but numbers. What is far more important is the role behind the numbers.

I think we were having problems squeezing the lines when the ball turned over.

We need more tactical awareness from the wide players.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by waka-man »

The YeyeMan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:28 pm
waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:24 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:15 pm
waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:58 pm 4-4-2 can be played, you just need to know how to do it so you don’t get over-run in the middle. Lots of options:

Play a midfield diamond where the wide players tuck in.
As one striker to drop in to the middle and make a 4-5-1 in the defensive phase.
Ask the middle two to both sit back.
Ask one of the fullbacks to operate as a third midfileder, Canelo style.
And more.

The point is, it can be done and if Egu feels its the best formation for Nigeria, there are ways to do it.

Indeed, the beauty of the 4–4-2 is it is often seen as the most flexible, fluid formation.
Yes. Although Egu's 4-4-2 is different to the variations you've described above.
Exactly.
Eguavon bets that Ndidi can shield the defence effectively and that opponents will be drawn to our extreme width and context the battle here.
Egypt feel for that. Sudan didn’t. But Sudan just didn’t have the technical ability to exploit their numerical advantage in the middle.
Yup. And if we go deep in this tournament we'll be up against teams who do possess that technical ability.
I hope he knows to adjust. He did yesterday .
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by amafolas »

john12 wrote:

You can play 2 strikers upfront and sacrifice a winger, or play 2 wingers and sacrifice a striker. But, you should never compromise your 3rd midfielder because you will be punished especially as your wingers aren’t great crossers..
Oga, who made this rule that we must follow
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by waka-man »

amafolas wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 11:02 pm
john12 wrote:

You can play 2 strikers upfront and sacrifice a winger, or play 2 wingers and sacrifice a striker. But, you should never compromise your 3rd midfielder because you will be punished especially as your wingers aren’t great crossers..
Oga, who made this rule that we must follow
The tin tire me. It’s like 5 throwing a make one corner, 5 corners make one penarities and 5 penarities make one goal.

Just stuff kids say.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by Ugbowo »

One thing i noticed and one that i mentioned in a previous thread was Iwobi's 45 mins on saturday.

He played the wide right role completely different from Samu and frankly i preferred iwobi's interpretation better. He was coming infield and making Aina make the wide overlap runs. Samu was hugging the touch line and allowing Kelechi the infield space but it severely limited Aina. Aina made more underlaps than overlaps...then Samu still cuts infield.

Iwobi's interpretation gave us an extra man in midfield and allowed to keep possession and build more without launching long balls from the back. I think it worked better.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by waka-man »

Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 17, 2022 5:00 pm One thing i noticed and one that i mentioned in a previous thread was Iwobi's 45 mins on saturday.

He played the wide right role completely different from Samu and frankly i preferred iwobi's interpretation better. He was coming infield and making Aina make the wide overlap runs. Samu was hugging the touch line and allowing Kelechi the infield space but it severely limited Aina. Aina made more underlaps than overlaps...then Samu still cuts infield.

Iwobi's interpretation gave us an extra man in midfield and allowed to keep possession and build more without launching long balls from the back. I think it worked better.
Well seen. I wonder if it was interpretation or instructions (I hope the latter). If you want to play that way, Iwobi is a far better option to Samu. Like you said, it gives you an extra man in the middle, but I also worry is makes our best passer of the ball in the final third, Aribo, play much deeper.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by Enyi »

vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
I have been saying this since Egypt.....at least try it against the next team so you can see what you have in the bag....

Ndidi and Onyeka should anchor.....Nwakali is not up to this level....am before anyone will say anything, I recommended him and Samu to Wenger...
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by Enyi »

onovo wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 7:44 pm
john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
A team formation is set up to maximize the potentials of the players that are available to the team. FC. Porto, who is one of the biggest clubs in Europe plays a 4 4 2, and they are doing well with it. Nigeria is a team traditionally known for attacking football, with quick interchange of passes between the midfielders and then diagonal to the wings. At the 1994 era, Westerhof played Oliseh and Siasia as his midfielders, while Finidi and Amunike operated from the wing together with Amokachi and Yekini as the strikers, and it worked. We just have to use a playing pattern that works well for our players and not try to copy another system that might be alien to us. Under Gernot Rohr, we all saw how complicated things became.
Sorry....NIGERIA DOES NOT HAVE A PLAYING STYLE......Your style is dictated by the players you have....we do not have the players to play 4-4-2....

in 4-4-2 your wingers are pure wingers(Finidi, Amuneke) Moses, Musa, Iwobi, Onyekuru and Samu cant cross a ball to save their lives so ain't pure wingers...

play them as wing forwards.....They will come into their own, unfortunately that means sacrificing Kelechi but he has been very good....that's the headache a coach has to face...
The stupid neither forgive nor forget- the smart forgive- but never forget" -Thomas Szasz.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.

“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP

Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........

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