424 isn’t a balanced formation

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424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by john12 »

So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
Last edited by john12 on Sun Jan 16, 2022 1:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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...and who cares about formation? just put your best 11 on the field, they are pros not kids, they'll know where to run to cover, defend. and score.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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mcal wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:11 pm ...and who cares about formation? just put your best 11 on the field, they are pros not kids, they'll know where to run to cover, defend. and score.
Formation matters please don’t let egypt, Sudan win deceive you because we’re a superior team than them. Our real test arrives probably in Semi final and at the world stage
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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It’s a 4-4-2. You only need to see how much time Simon spends in our box to understand that.
But yes, it does have some issues.
It is wholly dependent on the opponent deciding that our wingers need extra attention.
If they call our bluff, and decide to out-number of midfield, we’ll have a problem. For one thing, Aribo will not be able to join the attack and that’s critical to stitching together our attacking phase. And if he does, Ndidi is left wholly isolated. That happened a few times in the first half against Sudan and was really only rectified when Iwobi came on for Chuks and played a bit less wide.
As it is, we are getting away with it because Ndidi is probably the best specialist DM in the world. But someone will find a way to by-pass that.
And if they have strong wingers themselves, requiring our wide men to moderate their attacking, we’ll struggle.

Having said all of that, the second half adjustments show Egu is aware of this. You saw Moses cut inside a lot more to fill in the central spaces. Our first goal was a result of that. Defensively, he often played inside of Zaidu, not outside of him. That’s all about stuffing the middle.

Of course, Rohr’s fix for this was a third “midfielder” often in the guise of Iwobi, and occasionally, madly, Iheanacho. I personally think Egu should stick with the plan and keep two up front, close to each other and keep stretching the opponents. It’s leading to chances and if he keeps tweaking the model, it’s good enough to win the Afcon.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:13 pm
mcal wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:11 pm ...and who cares about formation? just put your best 11 on the field, they are pros not kids, they'll know where to run to cover, defend. and score.
Formation matters please don’t let egypt, Sudan win deceive you because we’re a superior team than them. Our real test arrives probably in Semi final and at the world stage
...it matters on CE a lot not on the field.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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waka-man wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:26 pm It’s a 4-4-2. You only need to see how much time Simon spends in our box to understand that.
But yes, it does have some issues.
It is wholly dependent on the opponent deciding that our wingers need extra attention.
If they call our bluff, and decide to out-number of midfield, we’ll have a problem. For one thing, Aribo will not be able to join the attack and that’s critical to stitching together our attacking phase. And if he does, Ndidi is left wholly isolated. That happened a few times in the first half against Sudan and was really only rectified when Iwobi came on for Chuks and played a bit less wide.
As it is, we are getting away with it because Ndidi is probably the best specialist DM in the world. But someone will find a way to by-pass that.
And if they have strong wingers themselves, requiring our wide men to moderate their attacking, we’ll struggle.

Having said all of that, the second half adjustments show Egu is aware of this. You saw Moses cut inside a lot more to fill in the central spaces. Our first goal was a result of that. Defensively, he often played inside of Zaidu, not outside of him. That’s all about stuffing the middle.

Of course, Rohr’s fix for this was a third “midfielder” often in the guise of Iwobi, and occasionally, madly, Iheanacho. I personally think Egu should stick with the plan and keep two up front, close to each other and keep stretching the opponents. It’s leading to chances and if he keeps tweaking the model, it’s good enough to win the Afcon.
He can keep 2 striker up front while adding another midfielder to the 2 midfielders because 424 formation will get you punished at the highest stage considering our wingers horrible crosses. So far, egu has defeated the teams in front of him, but they’re all inferior teams (FIFA ranking) his real test will come, when he is pitched against a superior team (FIFA ranking)
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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The full backs are not bombing forward so much, so I think that if the midfield is being outnumbered, one of the full backs will cut inside and simon (more than chuks) would move back to thhe defensive line. Anyway, you suit your team to your opponents. I’m sure that when he plays against better midfields, he will adjust accordingly.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:38 pm The full backs are not bombing forward so much, so I think that if the midfield is being outnumbered, one of the full backs will cut inside and simon (more than chuks) would move back to thhe defensive line. Anyway, you suit your team to your opponents. I’m sure that when he plays against better midfields, he will adjust accordingly.
Paveman

The wide backs continue to go forward and I gave not noticed a reduction on that.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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Enugu II wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:45 pm
Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:38 pm The full backs are not bombing forward so much, so I think that if the midfield is being outnumbered, one of the full backs will cut inside and simon (more than chuks) would move back to thhe defensive line. Anyway, you suit your team to your opponents. I’m sure that when he plays against better midfields, he will adjust accordingly.
Paveman

The wide backs continue to go forward and I gave not noticed a reduction on that.
EII: not sure if it was coincidence or tactical instruction but both Aina and Zaidu have been much more conservative going forward than when playing wih their respective clubs. zaidu especially has rarely reached the byline and Aina on very rare occasion, and this despite playing against relatively inferior opponents.

I suspect they are being cautioned by Eguavon in order to avoid dangerous counterattacks.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:55 pm
Enugu II wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:45 pm
Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:38 pm The full backs are not bombing forward so much, so I think that if the midfield is being outnumbered, one of the full backs will cut inside and simon (more than chuks) would move back to thhe defensive line. Anyway, you suit your team to your opponents. I’m sure that when he plays against better midfields, he will adjust accordingly.
Paveman

The wide backs continue to go forward and I gave not noticed a reduction on that.
EII: not sure if it was coincidence or tactical instruction but both Aina and Zaidu have been much more conservative going forward than when playing wih their respective clubs. zaidu especially has rarely reached the byline and Aina on very rare occasion, and this despite playing against relatively inferior opponents.

I suspect they are being cautioned by Eguavon in order to avoid dangerous counterattacks.

I disagree o. Ola aina last 2 games has been his best 2 games for SE so far. The way that Aina has been going forward reminded me of TAA
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:57 pm
Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:55 pm
Enugu II wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:45 pm
Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:38 pm The full backs are not bombing forward so much, so I think that if the midfield is being outnumbered, one of the full backs will cut inside and simon (more than chuks) would move back to thhe defensive line. Anyway, you suit your team to your opponents. I’m sure that when he plays against better midfields, he will adjust accordingly.
Paveman

The wide backs continue to go forward and I gave not noticed a reduction on that.
EII: not sure if it was coincidence or tactical instruction but both Aina and Zaidu have been much more conservative going forward than when playing wih their respective clubs. zaidu especially has rarely reached the byline and Aina on very rare occasion, and this despite playing against relatively inferior opponents.

I suspect they are being cautioned by Eguavon in order to avoid dangerous counterattacks.

I disagree o. Ola aina last 2 games has been his best 2 games for SE so far. The way that Aina has been going forward reminded me of TAA. Egu has definitely improved Aina SE performance
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by waka-man »

Alina has been very active in the attacking phase. Zaidu has also done his bit. They are full backs playing in a system that has wingers so they are never going to be similar to full backs in a 4-3-3
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:06 pm So far, eguavoen is doing a good job but let’s not forget that, he has defeated inferior teams (FIFA ranking wise) we have beaten the teams that we were expected to defeat and our real test will be in the Semi final vs Senegal or Algeria (FIFA ranking wise) 424 is a very imbalanced formation and the earlier eguavoen realize such, the better for him.. he needs to include nwakali, iwobi or Aribo in the midfield, the better for him
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:55 pm
Enugu II wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:45 pm
Paveman wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:38 pm The full backs are not bombing forward so much, so I think that if the midfield is being outnumbered, one of the full backs will cut inside and simon (more than chuks) would move back to thhe defensive line. Anyway, you suit your team to your opponents. I’m sure that when he plays against better midfields, he will adjust accordingly.
Paveman

The wide backs continue to go forward and I gave not noticed a reduction on that.
EII: not sure if it was coincidence or tactical instruction but both Aina and Zaidu have been much more conservative going forward than when playing wih their respective clubs. zaidu especially has rarely reached the byline and Aina on very rare occasion, and this despite playing against relatively inferior opponents.

I suspect they are being cautioned by Eguavon in order to avoid dangerous counterattacks.
Paveman

I think for the second game there was a tactical shift that is perhaps reason for what you describe. Note that against Egypt, it was clear the forwards were required to actively press Egypt's defense to prevent them from deliberate build ups that may open s po aces for Salah. It worked. This at times required the wide backs to actually help press further up than usual.

In the second game, this was decidedly changed. Nigeria sat back a bit more. If you look at the video the ooo reassure on the ball was usually delayed until the halfway line. This encouraged the Sudanese to bring up the ball with spaces behind them. Thus our wide backs appeared to be home most of the time because of this strategic change. The spaces behind the Sudanese assume was expected to be exploited given that it meant Sudan will not park the bus. Fortunately, Nigeria scored early and parking the bus was not then even an option for Sudan.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
When did Sudan dominate our midfield? You are just a rabble rouser
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

Post by vancity eagle »

lacidi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:06 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
When did Sudan dominate our midfield? You are just a rabble rouser
Did u watch the match. There were periods during the first half where they were dominating the midfield.

This 442 I don't think is a viable long term option. Especially with Aribo bombing forward.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:54 pm
lacidi wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:06 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
When did Sudan dominate our midfield? You are just a rabble rouser
Did u watch the match. There were periods during the first half where they were dominating the midfield.

This 442 I don't think is a viable long term option. Especially with Aribo bombing forward.
No they weren’t haba…
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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john12 wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:13 pm
mcal wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 12:11 pm ...and who cares about formation? just put your best 11 on the field, they are pros not kids, they'll know where to run to cover, defend. and score.
Formation matters please don’t let egypt, Sudan win deceive you because we’re a superior team than them. Our real test arrives probably in Semi final and at the world stage
A quick shout out to your beloved who thinks Egypt have Salah therefore they are a superior team.

Btw, Nigeria isn't playing 4-2-4.
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Re: 424 isn’t a balanced formation

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vancity eagle wrote: Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:02 pm I have said it before 442 leaves us short in midfield. I agree don't let our success decieve us. Until we get hammered 3 or 4 goals by a team at world cup and I will say I told you.

Think about this. If common Sudan was DOMINATING our midfield at times. What will better teams do ?

We need to go back to 433 as our primary formation.

Aribo as AM (which we still are yet to see)

With 2 of Ndidi, Onyeka, Nwakali behind him.

If we need even more creativity we can bring in Iwobi and move Aribo back to CM.
Then what to do with Kelechi? play him on the wing?

Nigeria will eventually need to show a bit more creativity centrally. Perhaps a 4-2-3-1 is better suited for that but more important is the role of players.
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