AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

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AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by OJI »

Regardless of the coach Nigeria has major problems.

We have academies all over Nigeria. you have products of these academies ending up in Europe. You have products of these academies being the backbone of the recent triumphant U-17 FIFA tournaments, yet when all these players come back, we have no attacking structure except dependency on individual brilliance, athleticism and/or luck.

WTF!!!

The problem is two fold.
1. Player evaluation.

We need to raise our evaluative capacity big time!

It is a known fact that the total amount most professional footballers have with the ball during a game is at most 5 mins.

Fully digest that statement. 22 players on the pitch. If you add up your time when you have possession of the ball, it is at most 5 mins.

So what does a player do when they don't have the ball?

It then brings us to the point of proper player evaluation. You select a player for what he does when he has the ball, what does the player do when a teammate has the ball, and what does the player do when the opposing team has the ball.

Throughout the tournament, go review what the offensive players do when their teammates have the ball. Static. No one running into space/channels. No one pulling defenders away from the ball to create channels for other players. No off-the-ball movement.

The Nigerian players were relatively good only if the player had the ball. Some attempted to showcase their skills with nothing ultimately much to show.

What about the part when the opposing team has the ball?
Eguavoen attempted to have the players press the opposition in their half for quick recovery of the ball. That required a higher energy production than the players were used to during Rohr's era. In the Rohr era, it appears the players were instructed to sit back in their half, and pray or hope for a counter attack.

2. Team fundamentals/efficiency
What is shocking for Nigerian professional players is the amount of wasted effort.
Example. Free kicks. An outcome of a free kick must be ...
(A) ideally a goal,
(B) a goal keeper makes the save,
(C) the wall does its job or
(D) redirect the play with a pass to an open teammate for a better shot.

4 options. Go watch some of the free kicks. Over the bar. Not on target. Completely wasted opportunities.

Unbelievable!

I don't even want to go into corner kicks.

You have to wonder the practice/ effort these players put into their craft in the presence or absence of a coach.

There is more.

Crosses. Eguavoen was to going to emphasize wingplay. The two wingers had to deliver crosses. It never happened.
Moses Simon to his credit kept two defenders focused on him. If he got free, he was headed for goal. What about the other winger? Zero output.

With this emphasis on wing play, other teammates are expected to share the understanding that if the winger gets the ball, his next move is to look for an outlet pass to players attacking the opponents goal. That understanding NEVER materialized. George Finidi's effectiveness and multiple contributions were anchored on this item. That understanding that if I got the ball, head to goal. I will deliver a cross or a pass.

Was that understanding created or reinforced throughout all the 4 games from either winger?

There was no effort to get the ball over the defenders for aerial efforts.

There was no effort to play to the edges of the penalty box. Opposing goalie can't come out, defenders facing their goal, creating forced error situations. The game is about mistakes, player's level of understanding, decisions at the right time, and capitalizing on it.

The only offensive style was to get the forwards to waltz or dribble into the box before shooting. A very low efficiency effort.

On to Nigerian midfielders. Because the offensive players don't move without the ball (that part of what do you do when your teammate has the ball), the midfielder has to have extra touches. With each touch, it gives time for the defenders to pick up any opposing player. The midfielder's outlet options increasingly get limited. Yet, the midfielders don't have the ability to shoot from outside the box on target.

Tunisia's only game plan was to compact the space, play the game in their half and drag the game to penalties.

They got a goal from a bad sequence of defensive errors, and a goalie error, got a man up thru the Iwobi red card, killed the game, and the rest is history.

Are we still going to be depend on the art (flair, individual brilliance, spontaneity) or the science (completely and properly executing team fundamentals)? Blessed with flair, can't we up the game a bit by also executing the team fundamentals very well?

Sit back when your team plays Brazil or Germany. The team will concede not less than 10 free kicks and/or corner kicks each and every time you play them.

First half against Tunisia. No shots on goal.

The elephant in the room is clearly we don't have a gelling strike force in the absence of Osimhen.
Cynical Italy took out Amokachi, and Amunike in WC 94, coupled with a defensive pivot, bad game management, and we lost. What happens if a team cynically takes out Osimhen. I did NOT mention Ghana oh! We are back to square one.

The Osimhen absence turned out to be a great opportunity to evaluate different attacking options. As I said over previous threads, 5+ years of Rohr, and his insistence on certain strikers, and conservative formation especially in friendlies has caught up with us. We lost years of finding attacking players, and molding a force. We misused friendlies. Most Nigerian players recruited to go play attack in Europe, yet we had a wrong hire, fraud of a coach NOT playing to their strengths.

Overall, a decent effort by Eguavoen and his crew with the limited amount of time to reorient the SuperEagles after the Rohr/Pinnick mess.

He almost pulled a miracle with the NFF's delayed action with Rohr leaving not much time for solid player callups, and preparation.

If Eguavoen desires to coach, and play the pressing/possession game, his callups would have to reflect an understanding of off-the ball skills by each player, and a commitment, at the very minimum, by each individual player to increase their fitness levels beyond what is being done at their respective clubs. At a tournament, where a team plays a match at a high level every three or four days, the lack of fitness was very apparent. For the amount of pressing football we attempted, we need to close the game in the 1st half, and have the other team chase the game later.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Scipio Africanus »

Top, top, top, top post! :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

This gets at the root of the problem in Nigerian, indeed African football. Watch as this thread is ignored in favor of aimless cul-de-sac arguments about Eguavoen vs Rohr, 4-4-2 versus 4-3-3 versus 10-0-0.

Wha choo looking at?!
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Cellular »

But Oga, ALL the players are based overseas where we understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis.

Do you think it is at a gathering of "All Stars" that they learn the rudiments of the game?

Everything the team needs to be a good team is right there.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by sabb »

pls pass to the nff, they had a 5yr plan with previous coach na, only in the GB game was there set piece that looked dangerous, SE still got a long way to go separating team play from individual glory
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by OJI »

Cellular wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:50 pm But Oga, ALL the players are based overseas where we understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis.

Do you think it is at a gathering of "All Stars" that they learn the rudiments of the game?

Everything the team needs to be a good team is right there.
Two very wrong assumptions.

1. "We understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis". Not valid. "best coaching?". Instructional content based on tactical and strategic philosophy, not on individual developmental needs. The love of the game, and the need to excel propels Ronaldo of Portugal to do what he does apart from his obligations to the club.

2. Not all clubs are set up to be in a developmental mode. That is why they have the academies. There is a reason certain clubs are money clubs. Big spenders. They buy finished products. Players in their prime. If after few times/scenarios, they see you are NOT decent in certain departments , e.g. crosses, no more investment in you in that department. Next player! Work on the other players. Loan you out when the club feels you are surplus to requirements. Put you on the bench.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by airwolex »

Good write-up, however, it is difficult to convert freekicks and corners. Getting even more difficult nowadays, if you ask me.
After 20 games, Arsenal has not conceded from a corner. If they average 4 corners against, that is 80 times the opposition has failed to score, in a league with some of the best footballers. It really is quite remarkable, It is actually a quite inefficient way to try and score if you think about it.

Perhaps we can mix the corner kicks a bit more, but scoring from them has little to do with the quality of the players.

As for free kicks, that's even worse. If you don't have a specialist like Beckham or Ward-Prowse then the likelihood of scoring from them is low. Simon had a good go in the second half but it is a really difficult skill. Even CRon, who is one of the best strikers of the ball ever has a terrible conversion rate with freekicks.

Our woes don't come from the players lacking quality, the Tunisians nullified our game plan and we could not adjust.

That said, it would not hurt to have players who strike the ball better. We don't have a Yekini, Oliseh or even Taiye Taiwo right now. Ndidi actually had a chance similar to The Tunisian goal scorer and missed the target. Aribo and Umar had good chances as well and scuffed the ball. In this regard, they can all do better.
Last edited by airwolex on Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Cellular »

OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:21 pm
Cellular wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:50 pm But Oga, ALL the players are based overseas where we understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis.

Do you think it is at a gathering of "All Stars" that they learn the rudiments of the game?

Everything the team needs to be a good team is right there.
Two very wrong assumptions.

1. "We understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis". Not valid. "best coaching?". Instructional content based on tactical and strategic philosophy, not on individual developmental needs. The love of the game, and the need to excel propels Ronaldo of Portugal to do what he does apart from his obligations to the club.

2. Not all clubs are set up to be in a developmental mode. That is why they have the academies. There is a reason certain clubs are money clubs. Big spenders. They buy finished products. Players in their prime. If after few times/scenarios, they see you are NOT decent in certain departments , e.g. crosses, no more investment in you in that department. Next player! Work on the other players. Loan you out when the club feels you are surplus to requirements. Put you on the bench.
You wanted a coach who just had the boys for a week to teach them all that you listed?

No extended camping but you want him to teach Simon Moses how to cross the ball? Or Ejuke how to look up when he is dribbling? Or put up a wanted poster for Chukwueze?

Gone are the days when you have extended camping.

ALL these guys play for professional clubs.

You should go and attend a professional football club training and come back and tell me that in 7 days of National team training they should be proficient at crossing or any of the things you listed.
THERE WAS A COUNTRY...

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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by OJI »

Cellular wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:25 pm
OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:21 pm
Cellular wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:50 pm But Oga, ALL the players are based overseas where we understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis.

Do you think it is at a gathering of "All Stars" that they learn the rudiments of the game?

Everything the team needs to be a good team is right there.
Two very wrong assumptions.

1. "We understand they get the best coaching on a daily basis". Not valid. "best coaching?". Instructional content based on tactical and strategic philosophy, not on individual developmental needs. The love of the game, and the need to excel propels Ronaldo of Portugal to do what he does apart from his obligations to the club.

2. Not all clubs are set up to be in a developmental mode. That is why they have the academies. There is a reason certain clubs are money clubs. Big spenders. They buy finished products. Players in their prime. If after few times/scenarios, they see you are NOT decent in certain departments , e.g. crosses, no more investment in you in that department. Next player! Work on the other players. Loan you out when the club feels you are surplus to requirements. Put you on the bench.
You wanted a coach who just had the boys for a week to teach them all that you listed?

No extended camping but you want him to teach Simon Moses how to cross the ball? Or Ejuke how to look up when he is dribbling? Or put up a wanted poster for Chukwueze?

Gone are the days when you have extended camping.

ALL these guys play for professional clubs.

You should go and attend a professional football club training and come back and tell me that in 7 days of National team training they should be proficient at crossing or any of the things you listed.
There is some misunderstanding. A national team coach can't teach that. He highlights the strengths/weaknesses/deficiencies, and offers a player supplemental and tailored developmental plans if he is inclined to. It is up to the player to develop. Leading a horse to the river, but cant force it to drink situation. No effort on the player to grasp, develop or improve over time? Don'f fit him into your plans. Each player has to be responsible for their development. I mentioned Ronaldo as example of a player doing what he has to do regardless of club. The ambition of the club/manager/federation MUST cascade down to every component.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by OJI »

airwolex wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 6:25 pm Good write-up, however, it is difficult to convert freekicks and corners. Getting even more difficult nowadays, if you ask me.
After 20 games, Arsenal has not conceded from a corner. If they average 4 corners against, that is 80 times the opposition has failed to score, in a league with some of the best footballers. It really is quite remarkable, It is actually a quite inefficient way to try and score if you think about it.

Perhaps we can mix the corner kicks a bit more, but scoring from them has little to do with the quality of the players.

As for free kicks, that's even worse. If you don't have a specialist like Beckham or Ward-Prowse then the likelihood of scoring from them is low. Simon had a good go in the second half but it is a really difficult skill. Even CRon, who is one of the best strikers of the ball ever has a terrible conversion rate with freekicks.

Our woes don't come from the players lacking quality, the Tunisians nullified our game plan and we could not adjust.

That said, it would not hurt to have players who strike the ball better. We don't have a Yekini, Oliseh or even Taiye Taiwo right now. Ndidi actually had a chance similar to The Tunisian goal scorer and missed the target. Aribo and Umar had good chances as well and scuffed the ball. In this regard, they can all do better.
The primary goal in a freekick or a corner is goal conversion. If your team has NOT practiced them, ODDS are that you will not achieve the primary goal. Very simple.
Say for a freekick, you don't have the quality, confidence or practiced long enough to execute from this length far from the goal. We did NOT have the quality on some plays. It showed, but there is no imagination to exercise other options. All freekicks don't have to be shot over the wall. It is NOT in the rule book. A side pass to an another player could suffice. There are other options. Some freekicks went into the stands. No work done by the opposing players or goalie. Bottom line, they can't be wasted.
Last edited by OJI on Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Ugbowo »

Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Enugu II »

Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Ugbowo,

I think guys like you need to provide your full analysis of games on here. It is important. OJI has provided his own analysis but if you feel differently about it, it is important to present that disparate view.

As I watched the game yesterday, I had a sense of Spain v Russia at the 2018 WC. It is much easier to close the gaps and defend deeply by reducing the space where the game is actually played. I believe Tunisia came into this game seeking a draw and betting their luck on pks. At least they played like that by defending deep and closing out the wide areas. They were fortunate that a speculative shot from distance beat our goalkeeper and we were suddenly chasing the game. The reduction of personnel to 10 v 1211 basically closed the game out of our reach and we were left hoping to score and not to concede. It did not happen.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by OJI »

Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Example.
Goal against Egypt came from a cross ? IMHO, I don't think you know what a cross is. You are confusing a build up with a
an intentional, deliberate over hang pass with a download trajectory to a teammate. Moses Simon 'crossed' into space, and more into the Egyptian's path than to Awoniyi. The Egyptian got to it before an incoming Awoniyi, headed it away from goal into the direction of Aribo who headed it into Kelechi's direction. Goal.

Build up vs cross. Fundamentals.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Enugu II »

OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:12 pm
Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Example.
Goal against Egypt came from a cross ? IMHO, I don't think you know what a cross is. You are confusing a build up with a
an intentional, deliberate over hang pass with a download trajectory to a teammate. Moses Simon 'crossed' into space, and more into the Egyptian's path than to Awoniyi. The Egyptian got to it before an incoming Awoniyi, headed it away from goal into the direction of Aribo who headed it into Kelechi's direction. Goal.

Build up vs cross. Fundamentals.
OJI,

Ugbowo is a CERTIFIED COACH ooo. He is not an Internet wanna be. In my view, he does have insight and years of knowledge that has to be respected. You may disagree but the reality is that he surely has knowledge as well as experience.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by OJI »

Enugu II wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:16 pm
OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:12 pm
Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Example.
Goal against Egypt came from a cross ? IMHO, I don't think you know what a cross is. You are confusing a build up with a
an intentional, deliberate over hang pass with a download trajectory to a teammate. Moses Simon 'crossed' into space, and more into the Egyptian's path than to Awoniyi. The Egyptian got to it before an incoming Awoniyi, headed it away from goal into the direction of Aribo who headed it into Kelechi's direction. Goal.

Build up vs cross. Fundamentals.
OJI,

Ugbowo is a CERTIFIED COACH ooo. He is not an Internet wanna be. In my view, he does have insight and years of knowledge that has to be respected. You may disagree but the reality is that he surely has knowledge as well as experience.
Enugu II, abeg!!!
And he is the only 'certified coach'? Rohr was also 'certified'.
A spurious, 'certified coach' that doesn't know the difference between a build up and a cross? Teacher don't teach me nonsense. We would like to see an actionable, informed developmental report by this 'certified coach' for just Moses Simon, and Samuel Chukwueze.

A report on just these two.

Let's focus our limited attention, energy and time to improving the lot of the SuperEagles, and bask in reflected glory than attempts as to who pisses most in the wind.
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Eaglezbeak »

OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 5:39 pm Regardless of the coach Nigeria has major problems.

We have academies all over Nigeria. you have products of these academies ending up in Europe. You have products of these academies being the backbone of the recent triumphant U-17 FIFA tournaments, yet when all these players come back, we have no attacking structure except dependency on individual brilliance, athleticism and/or luck.

WTF!!!

The problem is two fold.
1. Player evaluation.

We need to raise our evaluative capacity big time!

It is a known fact that the total amount most professional footballers have with the ball during a game is at most 5 mins.

Fully digest that statement. 22 players on the pitch. If you add up your time when you have possession of the ball, it is at most 5 mins.

So what does a player do when they don't have the ball?

It then brings us to the point of proper player evaluation. You select a player for what he does when he has the ball, what does the player do when a teammate has the ball, and what does the player do when the opposing team has the ball.

Throughout the tournament, go review what the offensive players do when their teammates have the ball. Static. No one running into space/channels. No one pulling defenders away from the ball to create channels for other players. No off-the-ball movement.

The Nigerian players were relatively good only if the player had the ball. Some attempted to showcase their skills with nothing ultimately much to show.

What about the part when the opposing team has the ball?
Eguavoen attempted to have the players press the opposition in their half for quick recovery of the ball. That required a higher energy production than the players were used to during Rohr's era. In the Rohr era, it appears the players were instructed to sit back in their half, and pray or hope for a counter attack.

2. Team fundamentals/efficiency
What is shocking for Nigerian professional players is the amount of wasted effort.
Example. Free kicks. An outcome of a free kick must be ...
(A) ideally a goal,
(B) a goal keeper makes the save,
(C) the wall does its job or
(D) redirect the play with a pass to an open teammate for a better shot.

4 options. Go watch some of the free kicks. Over the bar. Not on target. Completely wasted opportunities.

Unbelievable!

I don't even want to go into corner kicks.

You have to wonder the practice/ effort these players put into their craft in the presence or absence of a coach.

There is more.

Crosses. Eguavoen was to going to emphasize wingplay. The two wingers had to deliver crosses. It never happened.
Moses Simon to his credit kept two defenders focused on him. If he got free, he was headed for goal. What about the other winger? Zero output.

With this emphasis on wing play, other teammates are expected to share the understanding that if the winger gets the ball, his next move is to look for an outlet pass to players attacking the opponents goal. That understanding NEVER materialized. George Finidi's effectiveness and multiple contributions were anchored on this item. That understanding that if I got the ball, head to goal. I will deliver a cross or a pass.

Was that understanding created or reinforced throughout all the 4 games from either winger?

There was no effort to get the ball over the defenders for aerial efforts.

There was no effort to play to the edges of the penalty box. Opposing goalie can't come out, defenders facing their goal, creating forced error situations. The game is about mistakes, player's level of understanding, decisions at the right time, and capitalizing on it.

The only offensive style was to get the forwards to waltz or dribble into the box before shooting. A very low efficiency effort.

On to Nigerian midfielders. Because the offensive players don't move without the ball (that part of what do you do when your teammate has the ball), the midfielder has to have extra touches. With each touch, it gives time for the defenders to pick up any opposing player. The midfielder's outlet options increasingly get limited. Yet, the midfielders don't have the ability to shoot from outside the box on target.

Tunisia's only game plan was to compact the space, play the game in their half and drag the game to penalties.

They got a goal from a bad sequence of defensive errors, and a goalie error, got a man up thru the Iwobi red card, killed the game, and the rest is history.

Are we still going to be depend on the art (flair, individual brilliance, spontaneity) or the science (completely and properly executing team fundamentals)? Blessed with flair, can't we up the game a bit by also executing the team fundamentals very well?

Sit back when your team plays Brazil or Germany. The team will concede not less than 10 free kicks and/or corner kicks each and every time you play them.

First half against Tunisia. No shots on goal.

The elephant in the room is clearly we don't have a gelling strike force in the absence of Osimhen.
Cynical Italy took out Amokachi, and Amunike in WC 94, coupled with a defensive pivot, bad game management, and we lost. What happens if a team cynically takes out Osimhen. I did NOT mention Ghana oh! We are back to square one.

The Osimhen absence turned out to be a great opportunity to evaluate different attacking options. As I said over previous threads, 5+ years of Rohr, and his insistence on certain strikers, and conservative formation especially in friendlies has caught up with us. We lost years of finding attacking players, and molding a force. We misused friendlies. Most Nigerian players recruited to go play attack in Europe, yet we had a wrong hire, fraud of a coach NOT playing to their strengths.

Overall, a decent effort by Eguavoen and his crew with the limited amount of time to reorient the SuperEagles after the Rohr/Pinnick mess.

He almost pulled a miracle with the NFF's delayed action with Rohr leaving not much time for solid player callups, and preparation.

If Eguavoen desires to coach, and play the pressing/possession game, his callups would have to reflect an understanding of off-the ball skills by each player, and a commitment, at the very minimum, by each individual player to increase their fitness levels beyond what is being done at their respective clubs. At a tournament, where a team plays a match at a high level every three or four days, the lack of fitness was very apparent. For the amount of pressing football we attempted, we need to close the game in the 1st half, and have the other team chase the game later.
Those academies are private and don’t belong to the NFF.
WHAT SHALL BE SHALL BE SABI
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Ugbowo
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Ugbowo »

OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:12 pm
Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Example.
Goal against Egypt came from a cross ? IMHO, I don't think you know what a cross is. You are confusing a build up with a
an intentional, deliberate over hang pass with a download trajectory to a teammate. Moses Simon 'crossed' into space, and more into the Egyptian's path than to Awoniyi. The Egyptian got to it before an incoming Awoniyi, headed it away from goal into the direction of Aribo who headed it into Kelechi's direction. Goal.

Build up vs cross. Fundamentals.
I'm not going into semantics or trying to prove who knows more. All I am saying is the action that lead to the goal was a cross from Simon. The cross was with intent. Granted the defender got there first but the ethos Eguavoen spoke of prior to AFCON was getting players in the box when the ball goes wide. Aribo being there to turn that ball to Kelechi speaks to that ethos.

"Modern" football, space is hard to come by. To have the talent to place a cross on the head or leg of your player within a milli second is very tough. Sometimes pre ordained movements means you do what Simon did, play the ball into dangerous territory and put the defense under pressure. YOUR OWN WRITE UP SAYS THAT!

These are your words
There was no effort to play to the edges of the penalty box. Opposing goalie can't come out, defenders facing their goal, creating forced error situations. The game is about mistakes, player's level of understanding, decisions at the right time, and capitalizing on it.
To be honest, your analysis seems like you only watched the Tunisia game. If you watched the group games, some of the questions you are asking were answered there. You also seem to not have watched us a lot during Rohr if you thought we were a counter attacking team. Also Eguavoen's team was not a high pressing team per se, they were a situational press team. They pressed situations not gung ho through out.

I really was only responding to your comment about wasteful set pieces by clearly indicating that over 80% of our goals were from set piece situations. That's a pretty good return.

Sorry if you took that as a slight. But please watch the previous games if you haven't already.
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Scipio Africanus
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Scipio Africanus »

Enugu II wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:16 pm
OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:12 pm
Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Example.
Goal against Egypt came from a cross ? IMHO, I don't think you know what a cross is. You are confusing a build up with a
an intentional, deliberate over hang pass with a download trajectory to a teammate. Moses Simon 'crossed' into space, and more into the Egyptian's path than to Awoniyi. The Egyptian got to it before an incoming Awoniyi, headed it away from goal into the direction of Aribo who headed it into Kelechi's direction. Goal.

Build up vs cross. Fundamentals.
OJI,

Ugbowo is a CERTIFIED COACH ooo. He is not an Internet wanna be. In my view, he does have insight and years of knowledge that has to be respected. You may disagree but the reality is that he surely has knowledge as well as experience.
With all due respect, let's keep credentialism out of this. Kele's goal against Egypt happened because luckily, the Egyptian defender's clearance fell to Aribo, who headed to Nacho, who thumped the ball in.

The goal DID NOT come from a cross.

Wha choo looking at?!
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Re: AFCON 2021: The art vs the science of a defeat.

Post by Enugu II »

Scipio Africanus wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 11:37 pm
Enugu II wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:16 pm
OJI wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 8:12 pm
Ugbowo wrote: Mon Jan 24, 2022 7:29 pm Food for thought,

Goal against Egypt came from a cross
First goal against Sudan came from throw in
Second goal against Sudan came from Free kick
First goal against GBissau came from a quick start from a free kick i believe
Second goal against GBissau came from a second attempt from a set piece

So for all ur analysis....the actual reality is we are a "very good" set piece team.
Example.
Goal against Egypt came from a cross ? IMHO, I don't think you know what a cross is. You are confusing a build up with a
an intentional, deliberate over hang pass with a download trajectory to a teammate. Moses Simon 'crossed' into space, and more into the Egyptian's path than to Awoniyi. The Egyptian got to it before an incoming Awoniyi, headed it away from goal into the direction of Aribo who headed it into Kelechi's direction. Goal.

Build up vs cross. Fundamentals.
OJI,

Ugbowo is a CERTIFIED COACH ooo. He is not an Internet wanna be. In my view, he does have insight and years of knowledge that has to be respected. You may disagree but the reality is that he surely has knowledge as well as experience.
With all due respect, let's keep credentialism out of this. Kele's goal against Egypt happened because luckily, the Egyptian defender's clearance fell to Aribo, who headed to Nacho, who thumped the ball in.

The goal DID NOT come from a cross.
Scipio

For me it is worth reading Ugbowo's angle and we do not have to agree with it. In such situation, credentials matter. There are four ways of knowing, one of the highest is authority and a certified coach is an authority far more valuable than someone speaking at the a priori level or the tenacity level that we often get here. That is all I am alluding to. It is not a conclusion that you or all of us must soak up his view as irrevocable.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics

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