Still on Ahmed Musa's presence

[vancity eagle]

Clear lies, saying Musa came in against Ghana and showed passion that Dennis was lacking, like really, he came in and literally did nothing but lose the ball. Can’t take such a report seriously…

Mace

But is there any credence to other aspects of the piece? Bear in mind, that the claims on the other side is not entirely accurate as well.

I’m sorry prof, it’s all BS, he is taking the place of a potential game changer like an Ejuke, he shows zero leadership qualities to justify having a Keshi like spot on the team. He shows his selfishness by going back on his retirement proclamation and lying that he never said what he’s on tape saying. There simply is no reason to have him there as his so called ‘experience’ has not counted for anything in all the games he has been brought on to help salvage, they have all pretty much ended as soon as he stepped on the field. There is no case for having him on the team period.

But Mace, Ahmed is not inviting himself, is he? Why did Rohr and now Peseiro invite him? If those where local managers, it will be easy for us to point to egunje or regional balancing or other suspicious reasons. But he has been invited by supposedly foreign European managers that we believe are epitome of objectivity. Not so?

Exactly.
The more obvious reason is that they both believe he has a role in the team
But people prefer the grand conspiracy theory that ‘northern powers that be’ are calling the shots.

I guess you chose to ignore that Pinnick admitted on camera to forcing a clubless Musa on Rohr.

I didn't see you as one who ignores reality.

And that continues until now?
With a new manager?
I thought you said it was a 'northern' pressure group?

I dont believe it comes from Pinnick himself, but from elements in either the NFF or Sports Ministry.

The new manager did not pick this list, it was picked for him to work with. He simply dropped all the homebased players that were being marketed, like any sane coach would do.

I repeat again. Until Peseiro picks Musa in September, adding Peseiro to the long list of controlled SE coaches is meaningless.

The fact that Owngoal felt necessary to produce that pathetic piece of propaganda MAY be an indication that Musas place in the team could be in danger. It is a pathetic and desperate attempt to defend the indefencible.

Again I await Peseiros move on this matter in September. It may even be a gradual process to remove the captain from the team without perceived insult.

[Sunset]

Of course, lets just sweep under the rug that Pinnick himself said he forced Musa on the last coach...

Mace

But I thought the foreign managers cannot be influenced in that manner? Why is Musa's case different? Have the foreign managers only been influenced in the case of Nusa? If so, why have they? Why is Musa' case such that foreign managers have been influenced?

Oga stay on topic, this is not a Foreign vs local debate its the simple fact that our NFF president has admitted on TV to forcing Musa on one of our coaches

Sunset

They are all CONNECTED. If we are to believe that foreign managers cannot be influenced, why is this case different? That is the question. Is there something unique here? Why has the objectivity of foreign managers failed here?

As I said I could care less about the nationality of our coach and the debate itself as its an obvious waste of time, and seems more like you're deflecting. The discussion here is wrt Ahmed Musa's case where our NFF president admitted to forcing him on our coach. Are you going to pretend like that never happened?

Abi, I don't get what the deflection is about, simple question, based on what we've seen from Musa in the last 3+ years at both club and country, does he deserve a place in the team? And the obvious answer is no...then ok we can now speculate on why he's still being selected. But this disingenuous story from owngoal is trying to spin it to look like he actually deserves a spot...which is pure garbage...

Sunset

The importance should be clear. You should ask why are the managers not being blamed for 'imposing' Musa but it is deflected to Pinnick. Why is that?

If these Managers are trusted as being above board, why have they failed here?

Or perhaps we are wrong, maybe these Managers are above board and Musa still deserves a place based on their evaluation. Is that not a possibility? Maybe you and the fans (that includes me, btw) could be wrong.

It is not deflected to Pinnick, HE is the one that went on National TV to discuss how HE imposed Musa on Gernot Rohr at the time, unless you're trying to say that didn't happen and I just made it up?

[Damunk]

I repeat again. Until Peseiro picks Musa in September, adding Peseiro to the long list of controlled SE coaches is meaningless.

Again I await Peseiros move on this matter in September. It may even be a gradual process to remove the captain from the team without perceived insult.

What will you then do if he does?
Hug a transformer?
Jump in the Lagos lagoon?

The fact that Owngoal felt necessary to produce that pathetic piece of propaganda MAY be an indication that Musas place in the team could be in danger. It is a pathetic and desperate attempt to defend the indefencible.

This is the problem you have. You give no consideration to the alternative view. You really believe that your opinion is sacrosanct and anything else is plain stupid or informed by a corrupt agenda.

Do you live in a bubble? How do you handle differences of opinion at work and in your private life?
You must be some sort of autocrat.

Hear it now: Your opinion is just an opinion and has often been proven to be totally misguided.
DEAL WITH THAT and let us hear word 'jare.

[maceo4]

I repeat again. Until Peseiro picks Musa in September, adding Peseiro to the long list of controlled SE coaches is meaningless.

Again I await Peseiros move on this matter in September. It may even be a gradual process to remove the captain from the team without perceived insult.

What will you then do if he does?
Hug a transformer?
Jump in the Lagos lagoon?

The fact that Owngoal felt necessary to produce that pathetic piece of propaganda MAY be an indication that Musas place in the team could be in danger. It is a pathetic and desperate attempt to defend the indefencible.

This is the problem you have. You give no consideration to the alternative view. You really believe that your opinion is sacrosanct and anything else is plain stupid or informed by a corrupt agenda.

Do you live in a bubble? How do you handle differences of opinion at work and in your private life?
You must be some sort of autocrat.

Hear it now: Your opinion is just an opinion and has often been proven to be totally misguided.
DEAL WITH THAT and let us hear word 'jare.

Ok, I guess we can gloss over clear lies by calling them 'opinion'. Sounds like the Tucker Carlson defense, but carry on sha...

[packerland]

Damunk & Enugu II,

Let's not make this an LC vs FC debate. I don't know why ya'll defending Musa's presence in the team. At least one of you agreed that he should not be on the team. God bless Musa for his services but he should hang it up with the NT. He has made money in Russia, played in the EPL, and collected his retirement money in Saudi or was it Qatar. I know it feels good for him to be around the boys, but at this point he is just being selfish and is taking spot away from a young player (reminiscent of our politicians). I'm here calling it now Musa will one day be installed as the NT coach with or without prior experience or EUFA badge. Then all you Musa apologist will realize the guy had connections all along.

[Enugu II]

Damunk & Enugu II,

Let's not make this an LC vs FC debate. I don't know why ya'll defending Musa's presence in the team. At least one of you agreed that he should not be on the team. God bless Musa for his services but he should hang it up with the NT. He has made money in Russia, played in the EPL, and collected his retirement money in Saudi or was it Qatar. I know it feels good for him to be around the boys, but at this point he is just being selfish and is taking spot away from a young player (reminiscent of our politicians). I'm here calling it now Musa will one day be installed as the NT coach with or without prior experience or EUFA badge. Then all you Musa apologist will realize the guy had connections all along.

Packerland,

If he is installed as Coach, it will just not be unusual for me. We had Yobo get the same advantages. Not so? We had Beckenbauer and some others in other places get similar plums. Not so? Sometimes there are certain qualitiers that lead to such considerations. There may be a reason why Musa is called "Governor" just as Keshi was called "The Big Boss". Those qualities may have little to do with play on the field but with leadership qualities beyond it.

[Damunk]

Damunk & Enugu II,

Let's not make this an LC vs FC debate. I don't know why ya'll defending Musa's presence in the team. At least one of you agreed that he should not be on the team. God bless Musa for his services but he should hang it up with the NT. He has made money in Russia, played in the EPL, and collected his retirement money in Saudi or was it Qatar. I know it feels good for him to be around the boys, but at this point he is just being selfish and is taking spot away from a young player (reminiscent of our politicians). I'm here calling it now Musa will one day be installed as the NT coach with or without prior experience or EUFA badge. Then all you Musa apologist will realize the guy had connections all along.

Correction: we both did.
But that is not the point.
The people that matter believe he should be called up and that’s what they’ve done, whether we like it or not.
AGAIN for the record (and before, typical CE style, you begin labeling, twisting one’s position and leading a false narrative), I don’t believe Musa should be on the team.
I’ve said it in the past and even on this very thread, but feel free to call me a “Musa apologist” if it somehow helps your argument.

[Damunk]

I repeat again. Until Peseiro picks Musa in September, adding Peseiro to the long list of controlled SE coaches is meaningless.

Again I await Peseiros move on this matter in September. It may even be a gradual process to remove the captain from the team without perceived insult.

What will you then do if he does?
Hug a transformer?
Jump in the Lagos lagoon?

The fact that Owngoal felt necessary to produce that pathetic piece of propaganda MAY be an indication that Musas place in the team could be in danger. It is a pathetic and desperate attempt to defend the indefencible.

This is the problem you have. You give no consideration to the alternative view. You really believe that your opinion is sacrosanct and anything else is plain stupid or informed by a corrupt agenda.

Do you live in a bubble? How do you handle differences of opinion at work and in your private life?
You must be some sort of autocrat.

Hear it now: Your opinion is just an opinion and has often been proven to be totally misguided.
DEAL WITH THAT and let us hear word 'jare.

Ok, I guess we can gloss over clear lies by calling them 'opinion'. Sounds like the Tucker Carlson defense, but carry on sha...

Which “clear lies”?
Who is lying?
Feel free to take Vancity’s posts as fact, but don’t call me when you come unstuck.

[maceo4]

I repeat again. Until Peseiro picks Musa in September, adding Peseiro to the long list of controlled SE coaches is meaningless.

Again I await Peseiros move on this matter in September. It may even be a gradual process to remove the captain from the team without perceived insult.

What will you then do if he does?
Hug a transformer?
Jump in the Lagos lagoon?

The fact that Owngoal felt necessary to produce that pathetic piece of propaganda MAY be an indication that Musas place in the team could be in danger. It is a pathetic and desperate attempt to defend the indefencible.

This is the problem you have. You give no consideration to the alternative view. You really believe that your opinion is sacrosanct and anything else is plain stupid or informed by a corrupt agenda.

Do you live in a bubble? How do you handle differences of opinion at work and in your private life?
You must be some sort of autocrat.

Hear it now: Your opinion is just an opinion and has often been proven to be totally misguided.
DEAL WITH THAT and let us hear word 'jare.

Ok, I guess we can gloss over clear lies by calling them 'opinion'. Sounds like the Tucker Carlson defense, but carry on sha...

Which “clear lies”?
Who is lying?
Feel free to take Vancity’s posts as fact, but don’t call me when you come unstuck.

The ones in owngoals ‘opinion piece’, we all have eyes and can see none of what they are saying happened in the games that Musa played. But hey that’s their opinion and how they interpreted what happened abi so they get a pass…

[packerland]

Damunk & Enugu II,

Let's not make this an LC vs FC debate. I don't know why ya'll defending Musa's presence in the team. At least one of you agreed that he should not be on the team. God bless Musa for his services but he should hang it up with the NT. He has made money in Russia, played in the EPL, and collected his retirement money in Saudi or was it Qatar. I know it feels good for him to be around the boys, but at this point he is just being selfish and is taking spot away from a young player (reminiscent of our politicians). I'm here calling it now Musa will one day be installed as the NT coach with or without prior experience or EUFA badge. Then all you Musa apologist will realize the guy had connections all along.

Packerland,

If he is installed as Coach, it will just not be unusual for me. We had Yobo get the same advantages. Not so? We had Beckenbauer and some others in other places get similar plums. Not so? Sometimes there are certain qualitiers that lead to such considerations. There may be a reason why Musa is called "Governor" just as Keshi was called "The Big Boss". Those qualities may have little to do with play on the field but with leadership qualities beyond it.

Bros, Yobo is a bad example. Yobo definitely has connection. One of our CE member close to the team came out and said it. We don’t know the origin of his nickname. Maybe they call him the governor because he knows every governor that has hosted the team

[packerland]

Damunk & Enugu II,

Let's not make this an LC vs FC debate. I don't know why ya'll defending Musa's presence in the team. At least one of you agreed that he should not be on the team. God bless Musa for his services but he should hang it up with the NT. He has made money in Russia, played in the EPL, and collected his retirement money in Saudi or was it Qatar. I know it feels good for him to be around the boys, but at this point he is just being selfish and is taking spot away from a young player (reminiscent of our politicians). I'm here calling it now Musa will one day be installed as the NT coach with or without prior experience or EUFA badge. Then all you Musa apologist will realize the guy had connections all along.

Correction: we both did.
But that is not the point.
The people that matter believe he should be called up and that’s what they’ve done, whether we like it or not.
AGAIN for the record (and before, typical CE style, you begin labeling, twisting one’s position and leading a false narrative), I don’t believe Musa should be on the team.
I’ve said it in the past and even on this very thread, but feel free to call me a “Musa apologist” if it somehow helps your argument.

What people that matter? Pinnick or Shehu Diko? There is a reason our federation throws out distinguished coaches names and end up hiring a nobody/“yes man.” I believe Peseiro knows his x and o’s but I see him bending backwards. For the record, I don’t participate in FC vs LC nonsense debates some people here engage in. Westerhof was not a yes man. Keshi was corrupt (checkout his bench) but he’s was not a ‘yes man.’…same with Oliseh and his temper.

[Damunk]

Damunk & Enugu II,

Let's not make this an LC vs FC debate. I don't know why ya'll defending Musa's presence in the team. At least one of you agreed that he should not be on the team. God bless Musa for his services but he should hang it up with the NT. He has made money in Russia, played in the EPL, and collected his retirement money in Saudi or was it Qatar. I know it feels good for him to be around the boys, but at this point he is just being selfish and is taking spot away from a young player (reminiscent of our politicians). I'm here calling it now Musa will one day be installed as the NT coach with or without prior experience or EUFA badge. Then all you Musa apologist will realize the guy had connections all along.

Correction: we both did.
But that is not the point.
The people that matter believe he should be called up and that’s what they’ve done, whether we like it or not.
AGAIN for the record (and before, typical CE style, you begin labeling, twisting one’s position and leading a false narrative), I don’t believe Musa should be on the team.
I’ve said it in the past and even on this very thread, but feel free to call me a “Musa apologist” if it somehow helps your argument.

What people that matter? Pinnick or Shehu Diko? There is a reason our federation throws out distinguished coaches names and end up hiring a nobody/“yes man.” I believe Peseiro knows his x and o’s but I see him bending backwards. For the record, I don’t participate in FC vs LC nonsense debates some people here engage in. Westerhof was not a yes man. Keshi was corrupt (checkout his bench) but he’s was not a ‘yes man.’…same with Oliseh and his temper.

Chief, l don’t know who is or isn’t a yes man, but what I do know is that Musa’s call-ups are always given a political spin before anyone even considers the possibility that the coaches might actually want him.
Pinnick came out to confess he once insisted on Musa being included in the 2018 WC squad and believe it or not, his insightful insistence proved to be more than rewarding for all of us.
Problem now is, every Musa call-up is now tainted and attributed to that same ‘confession’ as if it still applies today, 4 years after the fact.

Why can’t we just accept that maybe the coaches actually rate him higher than the fans do?
It would save a whole load of blood pressure pills and anger management therapy sessions.

[donadoni]

I know its only São Tomé, but don’t you think Musa played quite well, several shots on target and quite a few really good defense splitting passes..

[packerland]

Every one played well against Sa Tome. The 2 players that had a down game (Aina & Zaidu), the former was injured and the latter woke up in the 2nd half. Like you said, it’s São Tomé.

[Damunk]

Something key happened in that game that probably passed unnoticed by most.
It might be of little significance but I think it says a lot.

After Denis scored his penalty, the first person he hugged and lifted off his feet into the air was Musa. That tells me that Musa is not held with such disdain by the players as he is by the fans.

Maybe that’s why he is captain.

[vancity eagle]

Something key happened in that game that probably passed unnoticed by most.
It might be of little significance but I think it says a lot.

After Denis scored his penalty, the first person he hugged and lifted off his feet into the air was Musa. That tells me that Musa is not held with such disdain by the players as he is by the fans.

Maybe that’s why he is captain.

So players make the team for being likeable people ?

Come on now.

Musa had his best game since he scored 2 goals vs Iceland.

But everyone pretty much had their best game as a SE.

[Damunk]

Something key happened in that game that probably passed unnoticed by most.
It might be of little significance but I think it says a lot.

After Denis scored his penalty, the first person he hugged and lifted off his feet into the air was Musa. That tells me that Musa is not held with such disdain by the players as he is by the fans.

Maybe that’s why he is captain.

So players make the team for being likeable people ?

Come on now.

Musa had his best game since he scored 2 goals vs Iceland.

But everyone pretty much had their best game as a SE.

Is that the ONLY thing you can read into that action?
What about respect and admiration?

No matter how much you ‘like’ a teammate, if he is a big liability to you and your team, that ‘likeness’ will not extend to the pitch. These guys are winners and if you are thwarting their chances of winning, they will prefer to save that love for off-field activity.
That’s my take anyway.

[ANC]

Damunky you are wrong on this one. The team have many seasoned players, there is really no need for Musa except as perhaps an assistant coach

[Damunk]

Damunky you are wrong on this one. The team have many seasoned players, there is really no need for Musa except as perhaps an assistant coach

But I’ve made it clear several times that MY PERSONAL OPINION is that he should NOT be on the team.

But it seems too many of you are so rigid with your clearly subjective opinions that you are not hearing other opinions.

I HAVE NOT SAID HE SHOULD BE ON THE TEAM -I’m not sure how many times and in how many ways I need to say it.

What I AM saying is that maybe the coaches and players have an entirely different opinion of Musa.
Can you guys not even entertain that as a possibility?

Na wa for this una rigidity of thought o.

[airwolex]

Damunky you are wrong on this one. The team have many seasoned players, there is really no need for Musa except as perhaps an assistant coach

But I’ve made it clear several times that MY PERSONAL OPINION is that he should NOT be on the team.

But it seems too many of you are so rigid with your clearly subjective opinions that you are not hearing other opinions.

I HAVE NOT SAID HE SHOULD BE ON THE TEAM -I’m not sure how many times and in how many ways I need to say it.

What I AM saying is that maybe the coaches and players have an entirely different opinion of Musa.
Can you guys not even entertain that as a possibility?

Na wa for this una rigidity of thought o.

I am with you. I don't think he should be on the team, but I'm not going to get hypertension because of it.

[Tobi17]

My stand on Musa is clear, he's not needed in that team and he's just an annoying deadweight at this point...with that being said, it appears the other players in the team especially the younger ones seem to like and warm up to him, there was evidence of this during the Sao Tome game when Musa provided the assist for Osimhens 4th goal, all thr players rushed to celebrate with him so graciously...so maybe there is something he brings to the dressing room that we don't see.

[vancity eagle]

If he brings something per "dressing room" then hire him for that position.

How many of you will let a doctor operate on you because "you get along and joke" yet he has dodgy qualifications.

[vancity eagle]

By the way it isn't JUST that he takes a spot on the bench, which is bad enough.

It's the very fact that his benefactors may also be pressuring the coach for him to play.

Rohr also alluded to this saying "we needed to keep EVERYBODY happy, and so Musa was brought in"

This kind of nepotism is not the recipe for success. We've been in a do or die situation TWICE (Ghana and Tunisia) where we needed inspiration off the bench and Musa came on simply to pass the ball to our opponents. This has to STOP.

So you bring on Musa instead of a guy like Ejuke, Amoo, Ejaria, Dessers, take your pick.

But it's cool cuz he makes guys laugh in the dressing room. Utter nonsense.