Super Falcons vs Japan in October

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Enugu II
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Re: Super Falcons vs Japan in October

Post by Enugu II »

Otitokoro wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:38 am That is what I have struggled with.
If they have higher than female testosterone levels, why not compete with men?
Damunk wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:58 pm
packerland wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:31 pm So, what are they banning her for? I am a bit confused. It not uncommon for men to have high estrogen levels. I’m sure some women might have high testosterone levels too. I’m no expert in this area so maybe you know better than me.
That's why I say it is contentious.
Its both a biological and ethical issue.
High testosterone is essentially a masculinizing or 'virilizing' male hormone and unnaturally high levels in women gives them an unfair advantage. The main advantage being increased muscle mass and therefore strength.
The ethical issue is that this occurs quite naturally in a few very peculiar individuals (Intersex for instance) who do not really fit into male/female gender classifications. But it is an anomaly but not their fault. It is 'natural' to them but 'unnaturally' high to probably 99.99% of women and probably higher even in women athletes stupid or dubious enough to use virilizing drugs.Its like using a performance-enhancing drug, only it occurs in them naturally.

So is it right to 'ban' them, or as has been the case elsewhere, to ask them to lower their testosterone levels.
Another argument is why do they not compete with males over whom they do not have an 'unnatural' advantage?
Note that it is the same hormone used in female-to-male transexual therapy, but in this case, the hormones exist naturally.
Otitokoro

Have you considered that the current use of men v women designation in sports is artificial and increasingly facing a relevance challenge. Sports is struggling to catch up with biological and scientific realities.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: Super Falcons vs Japan in October

Post by jette1 »

Enugu II wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 1:27 pm
Otitokoro wrote: Mon Oct 10, 2022 2:38 am That is what I have struggled with.
If they have higher than female testosterone levels, why not compete with men?
Damunk wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:58 pm
packerland wrote: Sun Oct 09, 2022 7:31 pm So, what are they banning her for? I am a bit confused. It not uncommon for men to have high estrogen levels. I’m sure some women might have high testosterone levels too. I’m no expert in this area so maybe you know better than me.
That's why I say it is contentious.
Its both a biological and ethical issue.
High testosterone is essentially a masculinizing or 'virilizing' male hormone and unnaturally high levels in women gives them an unfair advantage. The main advantage being increased muscle mass and therefore strength.
The ethical issue is that this occurs quite naturally in a few very peculiar individuals (Intersex for instance) who do not really fit into male/female gender classifications. But it is an anomaly but not their fault. It is 'natural' to them but 'unnaturally' high to probably 99.99% of women and probably higher even in women athletes stupid or dubious enough to use virilizing drugs.Its like using a performance-enhancing drug, only it occurs in them naturally.

So is it right to 'ban' them, or as has been the case elsewhere, to ask them to lower their testosterone levels.
Another argument is why do they not compete with males over whom they do not have an 'unnatural' advantage?
Note that it is the same hormone used in female-to-male transexual therapy, but in this case, the hormones exist naturally.
Otitokoro

Have you considered that the current use of men v women designation in sports is artificial and increasingly facing a relevance challenge. Sports is struggling to catch up with biological and scientific realities.
And in the African context our politics, culture and sports are all struggling to catch up with science. And we wonder why playing field remain unleveled.
make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
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iworo
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Re: Super Falcons vs Japan in October

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