What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

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Enugu II
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Enugu II »

txj wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:04 pm The GK situation is ample evidence of the inability of the local game and coaches to develop players thru proper training.
You watch the NPFL and you see the same issues with GKs across all teams. On the flip side, you watch the MLS and you easily see GKs with better fundamentals, even when the errors and all are there from game to game.

Regarding the NT, the criticism of Ike is spot on, but largely on the issue of scouting. Scouting NOT based on agency representation, but actual, professional evaluation.

The GKs from the local scene who are filtering up to the NT level does not correctly reflect the best talent on the ground.

Lets first have the best talent on the ground, then we can focus on how to develop them...
Txj,

Obviously, the subjects here -- Okoye and Uzoho -- all products of the local game and their errors come from that local environment? Is that the case? If not, I am at a loss about your point above. Could you please explain? Or is your response on auto pilot -- whatever the problem is, lets blame the local game. Uzoho and Okoye (the subject of the discourse here) are foreign trained. Are they a reflection of the goalkeeper training in those climes? Just asking?
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

Enugu II wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:16 pm
txj wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:04 pm The GK situation is ample evidence of the inability of the local game and coaches to develop players thru proper training.
You watch the NPFL and you see the same issues with GKs across all teams. On the flip side, you watch the MLS and you easily see GKs with better fundamentals, even when the errors and all are there from game to game.

Regarding the NT, the criticism of Ike is spot on, but largely on the issue of scouting. Scouting NOT based on agency representation, but actual, professional evaluation.

The GKs from the local scene who are filtering up to the NT level does not correctly reflect the best talent on the ground.

Lets first have the best talent on the ground, then we can focus on how to develop them...
Txj,

Obviously, the subjects here -- Okoye and Uzoho -- all products of the local game and their errors come from that local environment? Is that the case? If not, I am at a loss about your point above. Could you please explain? Or is your response on auto pilot -- whatever the problem is, lets blame the local game. Uzoho and Okoye (the subject of the discourse here) are foreign trained. Are they a reflection of the goalkeeper training in those climes? Just asking?
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: He's a special case, the post is beyond shameless.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

Damunk wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:59 am
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:25 am
Damunk wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:06 am
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 5:50 am I disagree totally with the premise that it is kindergarten stuff. I contend that it is a matter of long years of experience. It is a skill that’s acquired over years of experience playing at club level. I do agree that the national team is not the place to acquire or hone those particular skills. Young keepers, unless they are unambiguously exceptional, should not be saddled with first team responsibilities. Their role should ideally strictly be a backup role. Feel free to disagree with me but we’ve had 4 straight games in which our young goalies have cost us dearly because of their inexperience❗️

Cheers.
So we agree in principle. I also agree on the experience factor.
The difference is, I am saying that those errors are not down to the failings of Aloy Agu or Ike Shorunmu to teach.
Also, I’m saying that these same guys are not making these kind of errors at club level.
So what is happening to them in the SE?
Maybe their inexperience is making them nervous? I don’t know.
Meanwhile, the far older Akpeyi is the one everybody was accusing of nervousness.
Nerves are part and parcel of the game. Even Emmanuel Okala admitted that he feels helpless whenever he sees Johnny Nwadioha barreling towards him; but the goals these young guys have been conceding are not due to nerves. I’m talking about the swervy balls from long range. It takes experience to learn how to deal with those comfortably. If I were a betting man, I’d bet that neither Akpeyi nor Ezenwa is likely to concede such goals❗️


Cheers.
I agree, but I think the more experienced one is, the more likely they are to be able to handle those nerves.
It’s why the big players are expected to lead on the ‘big’ occasions.
Nerves are good; they just need to be controlled and the energy harnessed into productive output.
Unfortunately, nervousness in a goalkeeper can be catastrophic and is probably 20x more costly for the team than the nervousness of an outfield player.
We hardly remember all the errors made by outfield players unless it leads or nearly leads to a goal.

I know you like Ezenwa but his own nervousness seemed to be about rushing out and about.
Akpeyi was far more composed IMHO but for some reason, the fans felt he didn’t inspire confidence.
Yes, I do like Ezenwa because of his efficiency and the fact that I am an extremely results oriented individual. In six seasons and 8 appearances for the SuperEagles, he conceded 2 goals, at least 1 via penalty. In 7 of the 8 games, he kept clean sheets. That’s something to be applauded, not derided. Some here, especially txj, want to rewrite history but facts are facts and they are backed up by the stats❗️


Cheers.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by 1naija »

It's funny how we excuse incompetence for some and at the same time expect excellence from others. The goalkeeping department has been the worst part of the team since the current goalkeepers trainers were appointed, but we would rather blame the clubs than demand excellence from them.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

1naija wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 pm I liked him as a player, but he should have been relieved of his duties by now. The goalkeepers are getting worse and worse under him.
Someone that was just hired in April? Dementia must be doing a number on you guys :lol:
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Damunk »

Maybe someone should kindly tell us what the job description of a goalkeeping coach of a NATIONAL team is.
Maybe also compare it with a high school coach if possible.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by 1naija »

Why cant you find out yourself? It's not a secret.
Damunk wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:58 am Maybe someone should kindly tell us what the job description of a goalkeeping coach of a NATIONAL team is.
Maybe also compare it with a high school coach if possible.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by 1naija »

Sorry, I didnt know he needed 10 years on the job before he can do his job. The length some of you will go to excuse the incompetence of some is mind boggling.
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 2:39 am
1naija wrote: Tue Sep 27, 2022 10:32 pm I liked him as a player, but he should have been relieved of his duties by now. The goalkeepers are getting worse and worse under him.
Someone that was just hired in April? Dementia must be doing a number on you guys :lol:
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by mcal »

Damunk wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:58 am Maybe someone should kindly tell us what the job description of a goalkeeping coach of a NATIONAL team is.
Maybe also compare it with a high school coach if possible.
...let us not just blame the goalkeeper coach, you blame the rest of the coaches, defenders, midfielders, forwards, and the head coach.
The shot that beat him came from the middle of the field. Where were the players not closing up an opponent with ball.
Note, same thing happened at our afcon and wc eliminations, both long range shots were never closed down.
When I use to play, and coach youth ball, I will instruct my players to stay close at all times to their opponent (marry him was the term). With or without the ball, because every football player only need split second time and space to decide next action, pass to open player or take a shot at goal. If he is a good long range shooter, he won't resist to take his chances because many goalkeepers don't always expect a shot from that distance when attackers are rushing towards his goal area.
So let's not blame one coach on the team, you blame all.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Damunk »

If you've been following the discussion instead of driving 22 hours a day and falling asleep on your old desktop, you'd realise that its not about what is online but about what people expect a national team coach to be doing for national quality players.
IT IS NOT teaching them how to catch a ball.
If that's the case, then what skills qualified them for a national call-up in the first place? They might as well invite you and save taxi fare expenses in the process. :idea:

I'm asking you directly now, so kindly educate me.
1naija wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:05 am Why cant you find out yourself? It's not a secret.
Damunk wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:58 am Maybe someone should kindly tell us what the job description of a goalkeeping coach of a NATIONAL team is.
Maybe also compare it with a high school coach if possible.
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by txj »

Enugu II wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 11:16 pm
txj wrote: Thu Sep 29, 2022 1:04 pm The GK situation is ample evidence of the inability of the local game and coaches to develop players thru proper training.
You watch the NPFL and you see the same issues with GKs across all teams. On the flip side, you watch the MLS and you easily see GKs with better fundamentals, even when the errors and all are there from game to game.

Regarding the NT, the criticism of Ike is spot on, but largely on the issue of scouting. Scouting NOT based on agency representation, but actual, professional evaluation.

The GKs from the local scene who are filtering up to the NT level does not correctly reflect the best talent on the ground.

Lets first have the best talent on the ground, then we can focus on how to develop them...
Txj,

Obviously, the subjects here -- Okoye and Uzoho -- all products of the local game and their errors come from that local environment? Is that the case? If not, I am at a loss about your point above. Could you please explain? Or is your response on auto pilot -- whatever the problem is, lets blame the local game. Uzoho and Okoye (the subject of the discourse here) are foreign trained. Are they a reflection of the goalkeeper training in those climes? Just asking?




There are 3 issues here. I had assumed, wrongly and sadly I now know, that we are all intelligent enough to know and successfully separate these, without my having to itemize them like I was speaking to a 3rd grader.

From my post above, they are as follows

1. the issue of local GK talent development
2. the scouting of them
3. the current SE GKs, of which one was developed locally and the other in Germany.

See, I numbered them!!!

It is a known fact that if you do not correctly establish fundamental techniques in a young footballer before the age of 15, you probably 'lost' them. Lost them in the sense that certain things bake in and are them difficult, (not impossible) to correct. Uzoho belongs in this category, as are a myriad of GKs that I watch in the NPFL.

Our NT managers are not expected to develop GKs; that includes the GK trainer Ike...
Whatever we do not do at the clubs, means we cannot expect the NT manager to do it...

Regarding Okoye, his fundamentals are quite good. May not have some of the raw talent I see in some local GKs, but you can see a consistency in his approach to the aforementioned fundamentals: positioning, timing, stance, movement of the legs, etc.

His problem comes largely from not playing regularly, from whence comes experience. Reminds me a bit of the situation with the USNT GK, Zach Steffen.

Whoever advised him to move to Watford did not do him any favors...

But that is his problem. The SE should not compensate him for his poor decisions...

The issue here is that in Uzoho, we also have similar problems, if not worse.
He's only played once this season at Nicosia; 10 times I think last season...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

:roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:37 pm :roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:37 pm :roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:37 pm :roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:00 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:37 pm :roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
And just like that you proved my point, honestly its embarrassing how low your expectations of him seem to be. If you really rated him, you'd simply call as it was, a bad mistake that a player with his "fundamentals" shouldn't be making against such a low level opposition, but you want to justify it by mentioning far more accomplished Goalkeepers that have made mistakes against a far higher level of opposition?
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:52 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:00 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:37 pm :roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
And just like that you proved my point, honestly its embarrassing how low your expectations of him seem to be. If you really rated him, you'd simply call as it was, a bad mistake that a player with his "fundamentals" shouldn't be making against such a low level opposition, but you want to justify it by mentioning far more accomplished Goalkeepers that have made mistakes against a far higher level of opposition?


I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems.

The point is that this particular mistake happens in the modern game, even to the very best.
It is simply one attribute of the modern GK: use of his feet.

AND It is hardly a comprehensive measure of the quality of a GK.
And BTW, Uzoho is worse with his feet.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:52 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:00 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:37 pm :roll:
The 19-year-old was part of the Aspire Football Dreams programme in Senegal from 2013 to 2016
https://aspire.qa/Media/News/fifa-world ... eper-uzoho
Uzoho joined the Senegal branch of Aspire Academy in 2013, aged 14


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
And just like that you proved my point, honestly its embarrassing how low your expectations of him seem to be. If you really rated him, you'd simply call as it was, a bad mistake that a player with his "fundamentals" shouldn't be making against such a low level opposition, but you want to justify it by mentioning far more accomplished Goalkeepers that have made mistakes against a far higher level of opposition?


I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems.

The point is that this particular mistake happens in the modern game, even to the very best.
It is simply one attribute of the modern GK: use of his feet.

AND It is hardly a comprehensive measure of the quality of a GK.
And BTW, Uzoho is worse with his feet.
I'm guessing kicking the ball into your own net is part of the "Modern game" as well :rotf: :rotf:

And you're entitled to have such an opinion, though I don't see much of a difference between either player in that aspect, watching them with the SE, we've also seen both crack when faced with adversity. You can hype your boy as much as you want but he still remains in the same boat as Uzoho as neither inspire confidence with the SE no amount of excuses will change that fact. It's left to them to improve, all this fundamental talk means very little when all we see are clumsy mistakes
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:10 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:52 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:00 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm


Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
And just like that you proved my point, honestly its embarrassing how low your expectations of him seem to be. If you really rated him, you'd simply call as it was, a bad mistake that a player with his "fundamentals" shouldn't be making against such a low level opposition, but you want to justify it by mentioning far more accomplished Goalkeepers that have made mistakes against a far higher level of opposition?


I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems.

The point is that this particular mistake happens in the modern game, even to the very best.
It is simply one attribute of the modern GK: use of his feet.

AND It is hardly a comprehensive measure of the quality of a GK.
And BTW, Uzoho is worse with his feet.
I'm guessing kicking the ball into your own net is part of the "Modern game" as well :rotf: :rotf:

And you're entitled to have such an opinion, though I don't see much of a difference between either player in that aspect, watching them with the SE, we've also seen both crack when faced with adversity. You can hype your boy as much as you want but he still remains in the same boat as Uzoho as neither inspire confidence with the SE no amount of excuses will change that fact. It's left to them to improve, all this fundamental talk means very little when all we see are clumsy mistakes


Been caught in possession is the risk/reward thing in the modern day approach of building from the back. Its simply a fact.
Just listen to the top managers after GK howlers...

Secondly you missed the part where I said the SE should not suffer from Okoye's disastrous transfer decisions.
How can I be hyping a player that I am suggesting here, should be dropped if he's not playing games?

You are remarkably dim witted....
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by Sunset »

txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:18 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:10 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:52 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:00 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 3:54 pm



Your point being what exactly?

we know our players do not use correct ages
we know prior to Aspire our GK training regimes in the domestic game is not based on any established formal curricula

So what exactly are u saying?
Some of u come here and simply pretend. I have zero patience with that...

You watch Uzoho and his overall approach still mirrors some of what we see of GKs in the domestic game...
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
And just like that you proved my point, honestly its embarrassing how low your expectations of him seem to be. If you really rated him, you'd simply call as it was, a bad mistake that a player with his "fundamentals" shouldn't be making against such a low level opposition, but you want to justify it by mentioning far more accomplished Goalkeepers that have made mistakes against a far higher level of opposition?


I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems.

The point is that this particular mistake happens in the modern game, even to the very best.
It is simply one attribute of the modern GK: use of his feet.

AND It is hardly a comprehensive measure of the quality of a GK.
And BTW, Uzoho is worse with his feet.
I'm guessing kicking the ball into your own net is part of the "Modern game" as well :rotf: :rotf:

And you're entitled to have such an opinion, though I don't see much of a difference between either player in that aspect, watching them with the SE, we've also seen both crack when faced with adversity. You can hype your boy as much as you want but he still remains in the same boat as Uzoho as neither inspire confidence with the SE no amount of excuses will change that fact. It's left to them to improve, all this fundamental talk means very little when all we see are clumsy mistakes


Been caught in possession is the risk/reward thing in the modern day approach of building from the back. Its simply a fact.
Just listen to the top managers after GK howlers...

Secondly you missed the part where I said the SE should not suffer from Okoye's disastrous transfer decisions.
How can I be hyping a player that I am suggesting here, should be dropped if he's not playing games?

You are remarkably dim witted....
To be fair I take insults from idiots as a complement :wink:

No where would they suggest you attempt to dribble two players in your box, you have to read the situation and that's common sense. And Okoye has been making errors with the SE way before he joined up with Watford this season and has been a trend in itself or what excuse do you want to bring up now?
And if we were to drop him who would take his place?
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by txj »

Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 9:58 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:18 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 8:10 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 7:15 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:52 pm
txj wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:00 pm
Sunset wrote: Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:16 pm
Assumptions upon assumptions yet again, one things for sure and that is you simply don't follow our domestic scene as well as you assume you do. So I don't know how a player that left the country at such a young age is supposed to represent the domestic game its honestly laughable to say the least so you might have found your calling in comedy. You talked about how better Maduka is fundamentally than Uzoho and yet when you compare them at the SE it tells a different story.

One things for sure if it were Uzoho or any other homebased GK that made such an error against Algeria's HB side you'd be having a field day with that silly agenda. I really wonder what fundamentals that showcased :thumb:


First to show how uninformed you are, what happened to Okoye in the B match, has happened to several GKs in the world, including Allison, Mendy, Courtois, etc.

In this age when GKs are expected to play out from the back, IT HAPPENS.

It is no assumption that Uzoho came under formal curriculum years later than he should have. You can pretend all you like about "left the country at such a young age"....It makes zero difference to me that folks like u whitewash the issue...

Like I said, Uzoho is getting more games than Okoye and is more match fit, small as the body of work is...But it does not change the fact of the difference between both GKs' fundamentals...
And just like that you proved my point, honestly its embarrassing how low your expectations of him seem to be. If you really rated him, you'd simply call as it was, a bad mistake that a player with his "fundamentals" shouldn't be making against such a low level opposition, but you want to justify it by mentioning far more accomplished Goalkeepers that have made mistakes against a far higher level of opposition?


I'm sorry that you have comprehension problems.

The point is that this particular mistake happens in the modern game, even to the very best.
It is simply one attribute of the modern GK: use of his feet.

AND It is hardly a comprehensive measure of the quality of a GK.
And BTW, Uzoho is worse with his feet.
I'm guessing kicking the ball into your own net is part of the "Modern game" as well :rotf: :rotf:

And you're entitled to have such an opinion, though I don't see much of a difference between either player in that aspect, watching them with the SE, we've also seen both crack when faced with adversity. You can hype your boy as much as you want but he still remains in the same boat as Uzoho as neither inspire confidence with the SE no amount of excuses will change that fact. It's left to them to improve, all this fundamental talk means very little when all we see are clumsy mistakes


Been caught in possession is the risk/reward thing in the modern day approach of building from the back. Its simply a fact.
Just listen to the top managers after GK howlers...

Secondly you missed the part where I said the SE should not suffer from Okoye's disastrous transfer decisions.
How can I be hyping a player that I am suggesting here, should be dropped if he's not playing games?

You are remarkably dim witted....
To be fair I take insults from idiots as a complement :wink:

No where would they suggest you attempt to dribble two players in your box, you have to read the situation and that's common sense. And Okoye has been making errors with the SE way before he joined up with Watford this season and has been a trend in itself or what excuse do you want to bring up now?
And if we were to drop him who would take his place?


Being caught in possession is an error. Nobody coaches or is suggesting that it is a quality to be admired. I'm just letting you know that it is part of the risk/reward thing in playing out from the back.

Yes Okoye has made errors prior to joining Watford, but he was also much sharper before then when playing regularly.

And why would I be making excuses for a player I think should be dropped?
I mean, ur comprehension level is wack....
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by oloye »

If keepers are making those basic errors at this level, maybe they were never good enough to play at this level in the first place. You have a keeper who cannot make the team in Cyprus, another one warming the bench at Watford, ordinarily they should not even be in the national team.

Those kind of errors are the kind of errors that should be corrected at the club level, when you report to the national team, you are supposed to be a national team player, who plays regularly and on top of your game. You do not come to the national team and try to find form, you bring form to the national team.
"There is big pressure at this club as you cannot be like the manager at Arsenal and ask for five years to try and to win one trophy" - Jose Mourinho

.... I believe in God. I try to be a good man so He can have a bit of time to give me a hand when I need it - Jose Mourinho
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Re: What is Ike still doing on the coaching staff?

Post by olu »

The surprising thing is before moving to Cyprus, Uzoho played for Deportivo La Caruna in La Liga. Deportivo must have seen something in him to sign him, as it is rare for Spanish teams to sign African goalies at such a young age.

The lack of game time for Watford seems to be affecting Okoye at the national team level. Also, I'm not surprised Okoye is not starting for Watford. Daniel Bachmann the starting goalie for Watford is no slouch and is also an Austrian international. Bachmann looked good in the few EPL games he played last season when Ben Foster, the starting goalie was out inured.
oloye wrote: Tue Oct 04, 2022 6:01 pm If keepers are making those basic errors at this level, maybe they were never good enough to play at this level in the first place. You have a keeper who cannot make the team in Cyprus, another one warming the bench at Watford, ordinarily they should not even be in the national team.

Those kind of errors are the kind of errors that should be corrected at the club level, when you report to the national team, you are supposed to be a national team player, who plays regularly and on top of your game. You do not come to the national team and try to find form, you bring form to the national team.

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