How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

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How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

SE have played our best when Iwobi was deployed as an AM in a midfield three with 2 midfielders to do the dirty work behind him. In a 442 he is wasted and does too much work far too deep on the field.

How many chances did our 6 forwards get. What did we create ?

Until the dumbos running our football understand that you dont win JACK without a midfield, we will continue to fail. We need technical ball playing midfielders.

Iwobi further up will help with our creativity issues. He did it under Rohr. Please let us just end this nonsense 442, we dont have the players to do it effectively.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

You dont play 442 against quality sides. You can get away against Sao Tome and Sierra Leone, but highly technical sides like Algeria, you better reinforce the midfield, especially when you get a basket keeper.

I mentioned a few days ago, when your opposition knows your keeper sucks and will take long range shots, YOU NEED TO SOLIDIFY YOUR MIDFIELD.

Let these clowns keep calling 6 centrebacks and 7 strikers, with old man Musa everybody's pet.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

What Iwobi needs is a DM, plus a CM who can contribute effectively to attack and put in a shift and track back.

We had a perfect opportunity to look at Yusuf who has been the player of the year so far for league leaders Antwerp. But the NFF cancelled his invitation to call up more defenders and strikers. Nwakali also needs to be brought back into the fold.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by Tobi17 »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:30 am SE have played our best when Iwobi was deployed as an AM in a midfield three with 2 midfielders to do the dirty work behind him. In a 442 he is wasted and does too much work far too deep on the field.

How many chances did our 6 forwards get. What did we create ?

Until the dumbos running our football understand that you dont win JACK without a midfield, we will continue to fail. We need technical ball playing midfielders.

Iwobi further up will help with our creativity issues. He did it under Rohr. Please let us just end this nonsense 442, we dont have the players to do it effectively.
We need to send high profile emissaries to go beg either of Eze or Michel Olise to consider playing for Nigeria for starters, then going forward, Peseiro should now know better than to invite only 4 MFs, except he's utterly brainless and unwilling to learn that 9 forwards can't win you games without a stacked midfield. He has one more chance in the next friendlies this November to invite no less than 6-7 midfielders, otherwise I'll just push for his sack, meanwhile I'll just write off 2022 as the year that wasn't to be for Nigerian football.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:34 am You dont play 442 against quality sides. You can get away against Sao Tome and Sierra Leone, but highly technical sides like Algeria, you better reinforce the midfield, especially when you get a basket keeper.

I mentioned a few days ago, when your opposition knows your keeper sucks and will take long range shots, YOU NEED TO SOLIDIFY YOUR MIDFIELD.

Let these clowns keep calling 6 centrebacks and 7 strikers, with old man Musa everybody's pet.

I’d even suggest we play 343 in attach and 451 when defending. We don’t play modern tactics and we’re stuck in the 90s wing play rubbish. 4 of our on field players were dedicated to the wings. 2 full backs , right winger and left winger. Nonsense!
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by Tobi17 »

I know they've played mostly poor teams but Egypt seem to have found their feet under their new coach, Ivory Coast is looking good too...we're only the team among the DNQ set that have looked unconvincing so far.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by fledy »

DNQ no good at all! Even the new coach resemble DNQ
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

I swear what do they say

the definition of stupid, or is it insane is to do the same thing over and over again and think it will turn out differently when it has continued to fail.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by Tobi17 »

EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:41 am
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:34 am You dont play 442 against quality sides. You can get away against Sao Tome and Sierra Leone, but highly technical sides like Algeria, you better reinforce the midfield, especially when you get a basket keeper.

I mentioned a few days ago, when your opposition knows your keeper sucks and will take long range shots, YOU NEED TO SOLIDIFY YOUR MIDFIELD.

Let these clowns keep calling 6 centrebacks and 7 strikers, with old man Musa everybody's pet.

I’d even suggest we play 343 in attach and 451 when defending. We don’t play modern tactics and we’re stuck in the 90s wing play rubbish. 4 of our on field players were dedicated to the wings. 2 full backs , right winger and left winger. Nonsense!
We should ditch players like Moses Simon and Musa as well, they have no trajectory of getting better even if we stuck to wing play
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

Tobi17 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:48 am
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:41 am
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 12:34 am You dont play 442 against quality sides. You can get away against Sao Tome and Sierra Leone, but highly technical sides like Algeria, you better reinforce the midfield, especially when you get a basket keeper.

I mentioned a few days ago, when your opposition knows your keeper sucks and will take long range shots, YOU NEED TO SOLIDIFY YOUR MIDFIELD.

Let these clowns keep calling 6 centrebacks and 7 strikers, with old man Musa everybody's pet.

I’d even suggest we play 343 in attach and 451 when defending. We don’t play modern tactics and we’re stuck in the 90s wing play rubbish. 4 of our on field players were dedicated to the wings. 2 full backs , right winger and left winger. Nonsense!
We should ditch players like Moses Simon and Musa as well, they have no trajectory of getting better even if we stuck to wing play
I dont know why Simon was left on the pitch so long. I refuse to believe Ejuke is that bad, why was he not brought on ?

looks like we are doing the "seniority" thing again.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by maceo4 »

The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 am The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
please tell me

Was it Peseiro who cancelled Yusuf's invitation ?

keep pretending there is no interference in the team.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by pindal123 »

The 4-4-2 system makes our midfield very weak, and the 2nd striker is quite unproductive.
The 4-3-3 would allow us to play with with 2 defensive midfielders and an advanced midfielder.

The AM could be Iwobi, but we must also convince Eberechi Eze to play for Nigeria, he would be perfect for this role.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by Bigpokey24 »

we do not play a flat 442, WE play a 4222. The issue was Kele has no idea how to press like Vic
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by olu »

4-4-2 can work with the right personnel. For it to work the 2 CMs have to comfortable going forward and defending, and one of the CFs has to be able to drop deep to midfield every now and then and play as an "attacking midfielder". I would be more comfortable playing a 3-5-2 or 4-2-1-3, however, if we are going to play a 4-4-2, Iwobi and Aribo would be my two CMs. Iwobi plays as a CM for Everton and has improved in leaps and bounds when it comes to covering for the defense. Aribo can contribute defensively too, though I won't say that's the best part of his game. Ndidi is a great DM, but don't feel like you would get the best out of him in a 4-4-2 because of his limited range of passing.

I would also start either Kelechi or Lookman as the second striker to pair Osimhen in attack.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by maceo4 »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:18 am
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 am The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
please tell me

Was it Peseiro who cancelled Yusuf's invitation ?

keep pretending there is no interference in the team.
What does cancelling Yusuf's invitation have to do with anything? Was it also the NFF that told him to play with only 2 CM's (Iwobi and whoever)? So you want to tell me that if it was Iwobi and Yusuf instead that they still wouldn't get overrun?
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:32 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:18 am
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 am The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
please tell me

Was it Peseiro who cancelled Yusuf's invitation ?

keep pretending there is no interference in the team.
What does cancelling Yusuf's invitation have to do with anything? Was it also the NFF that told him to play with only 2 CM's (Iwobi and whoever)? So you want to tell me that if it was Iwobi and Yusuf instead that they still wouldn't get overrun?
If you have only 3 midfielders in camp then you are almost forced to play 442.

You have dodged the question. Who cancelled Yusufs invitation ?

Do you think it was Peseiro ?
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by maceo4 »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:42 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:32 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:18 am
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 am The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
please tell me

Was it Peseiro who cancelled Yusuf's invitation ?

keep pretending there is no interference in the team.
What does cancelling Yusuf's invitation have to do with anything? Was it also the NFF that told him to play with only 2 CM's (Iwobi and whoever)? So you want to tell me that if it was Iwobi and Yusuf instead that they still wouldn't get overrun?
If you have only 3 midfielders in camp then you are almost forced to play 442.

You have dodged the question. Who cancelled Yusufs invitation ?

Do you think it was Peseiro ?
He wasn't forced to do anything, he's always played 2 CMs (Iwobi and someone else)...that is how he plays, so if you are only going to play 2 then why do you need more 3-4 of them? His selection reflects how he wants to play, not the other way around...even when he brought on Onyedika he still replaced Onyeka sticking to 2 CM's...Thats how he wants to play, nothing to do with the NFF, you need to convince him not to continue using that unbalanced formation...
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:44 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:42 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:32 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:18 am
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 am The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
please tell me

Was it Peseiro who cancelled Yusuf's invitation ?

keep pretending there is no interference in the team.
What does cancelling Yusuf's invitation have to do with anything? Was it also the NFF that told him to play with only 2 CM's (Iwobi and whoever)? So you want to tell me that if it was Iwobi and Yusuf instead that they still wouldn't get overrun?
If you have only 3 midfielders in camp then you are almost forced to play 442.

You have dodged the question. Who cancelled Yusufs invitation ?

Do you think it was Peseiro ?
He wasn't forced to do anything, he's always played 2 CMs (Iwobi and someone else)...that is how he plays, so if you are only going to play 2 then why do you need more 3-4 of them? His selection reflects how he wants to play, not the other way around...even when he brought on Onyedika he still replaced Onyeka sticking to 2 CM's...Thats how he wants to play, nothing to do with the NFF, you need to convince him not to continue using that unbalanced formation...
You are not making sense.

You only play with 2 centrebacks yet SEVEN were called. So to say nothing wrong with only calling 3-4 midfielders does not make sense.

Are you to tell me that Rohr (in his later days) Egu, and Peseiro all just happen to play an outdated system that barely anybody plays ?

Are you to tell me that all 3 of those coaches just intend to ignore the midfield ?

This has to be either a very strange coincidence, or there is a common thread that is running things from behind the scenes. That common thread is the NFF.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by maceo4 »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:57 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:44 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:42 pm
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 5:32 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:18 am
maceo4 wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 1:00 am The dumbos running our footie are the ones picking our formation and not the FC lol VE…I made sure I highlighted the formation before the game expecting you to complain, but I no hear pim from you, then now after the fact you start blaming NFF lol…
please tell me

Was it Peseiro who cancelled Yusuf's invitation ?

keep pretending there is no interference in the team.
What does cancelling Yusuf's invitation have to do with anything? Was it also the NFF that told him to play with only 2 CM's (Iwobi and whoever)? So you want to tell me that if it was Iwobi and Yusuf instead that they still wouldn't get overrun?
If you have only 3 midfielders in camp then you are almost forced to play 442.

You have dodged the question. Who cancelled Yusufs invitation ?

Do you think it was Peseiro ?
He wasn't forced to do anything, he's always played 2 CMs (Iwobi and someone else)...that is how he plays, so if you are only going to play 2 then why do you need more 3-4 of them? His selection reflects how he wants to play, not the other way around...even when he brought on Onyedika he still replaced Onyeka sticking to 2 CM's...Thats how he wants to play, nothing to do with the NFF, you need to convince him not to continue using that unbalanced formation...
You are not making sense.

You only play with 2 centrebacks yet SEVEN were called. So to say nothing wrong with only calling 3-4 midfielders does not make sense.

Are you to tell me that Rohr (in his later days) Egu, and Peseiro all just happen to play an outdated system that barely anybody plays ?

Are you to tell me that all 3 of those coaches just intend to ignore the midfield ?

This has to be either a very strange coincidence, or there is a common thread that is running things from behind the scenes. That common thread is the NFF.
First off in defense he's played 3 CB's before as well not just two. And those CD's need to also be available as help to provide cover at RB/LB when necessary (ex: Awaziem/Akpoguma at RB, Bassey/Ozonwofor at LB). And even with that said all the CD's invited have already been part of the SE set up. But at CM we don't have 5+ SE tested CM's out there that he can readily invited even if they wanted to. BTW, CD's on the bench yesterday were three - Ozonwafor, Omeruo, and Awaziem - which makes complete sense. However, if the coach is only going to play two CM it also makes sense to invite about 4-5 of them, esp when some of the CD's like Awaziem have been playing DM for their clubs and can step in there as well. From Pesiero's first game we've all perplexingly mentioned his continued use of 4-2-4, so regardless of how many CM's he calls he would still only play one of them next to Iwobi. It didn't start yesterday and I doubt it would end anytime soon...he's always played 2 period...

So if you want to tell me NFF is both picking players and the formation then fine, but my problem with your rhetoric is that it changes from coach to coach. You keep saying NFF is the issue, but it seems to only apply during **** and now Peseiro's era. Do you want me to pull up all the vitriol you were spitting at Eguavoen for the same thing? Why didn't you blame NFF then? You kept saying these things don't happen with FC's, but whenever it does you blame NFF instead. What kind of coach worth his salt will allow the FA to both pick the players and the formation? Either way you look at it the coach carries the bulk of the blame, if either he's allowing the FA dictate to him, or he himself is making the decisions. But you are attempting to exonerate him, which is quite odd...
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by vancity eagle »

I'm not exonerated anybody, I'm simply highlighting a very suspicious and disturbing pattern that can't really be explained by sampling blaming each coach, unless again you believe it's some miraculous coincidence that our last 3 coaches

1. All see fit to call up a useless Musa
2. All see fit to play an outdated 442 that we don't have the personell to execute
3. All see fit to call up way too many central defenders
4. All see fit to ignore midfield options (with Yusuf suspiciously being forced out of the last 2 squads)

Something is going on.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by Tobi17 »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Sep 28, 2022 7:21 pm I'm not exonerated anybody, I'm simply highlighting a very suspicious and disturbing pattern that can't really be explained by sampling blaming each coach, unless again you believe it's some miraculous coincidence that our last 3 coaches

1. All see fit to call up a useless Musa
2. All see fit to play an outdated 442 that we don't have the personell to execute
3. All see fit to call up way too many central defenders
4. All see fit to ignore midfield options (with Yusuf suspiciously being forced out of the last 2 squads)

Something is going on.
I believe this friendly matches have given Peseiro all the opportunities to fully evaluate the team, he even admitted in his words that he didn't even know most of the players that were invited, so the whole point of the games wasn't so much about the result, but for him to get a close up analysis of all players in camp to know which players or not that will fit into his team going forward...I believe we will see a semblance of Peseiros real team by November when we play Portugal, most of the players that were invited for these games might not get the chance to play for a while.
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Re: How long will it take us to learn 442 is not it ?

Post by txj »

This is not how it works.

Let me try and use a specific match to illustrate. This is the 2nd leg of the 2007/8 UCL S.Final second leg b/w Barca and ManU at the Camp Nou.

If you click the link below it will show you the tactical lineup.

Nominally Fergurson is playing with 4 attacking players and therefore you would say, a 4-2-4.

But in the game itself it was more a 4-5-1 and they sat so deep some might have thought they were defending the goal in the Espanyol stadium!

You'll note that on the bench he had Anderson and was using Hargreaves as a right back in the game, a role he often played going back to his Munich days.

The point here is that its not about bean counting the number of CMs, or even the formation. Its about the roles.

ROLES, not positions, but ROLES.


https://www.transfermarkt.us/fc-barcelo ... icht/90882


1Edwin van der Sar
4Owen Hargreaves 73'
3Patrice Evra
6Wes Brown
5Rio Ferdinand

16Michael Carrick
18Paul Scholes
13Park Ji-Sung
10Wayne Rooney

7Cristiano Ronaldo
32Carlos Tevez


SUBSTITUTES
76'17 Nani
85'11 Ryan Giggs

29Tomasz Kuszczak
27Mikael Silvestre
8Anderson
22John O'Shea
19Gerard Piqué


We may have started with a nominal 4-4-2, but the game expressed itself far differently from that.
For instance, after the initial shadow press by the two forwards, we would occasionally drop into a 4-4-1-1, with Kele as the outlet for a counter...
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