DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Where Eagles dare! Discuss Nigerian related football (soccer) topics here.

Moderators: Moderator Team, phpBB2 - Administrators

User avatar
hestonap
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1678
Joined: Wed Dec 24, 2003 8:37 pm
Location: Canada
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by hestonap »

Great thread.

Like most things in life, natural talent will only get you so far.

The discipline to do the simple and do it consistently well is often what distinguishes the successful from the not so successful. I don't know but there is something about the psyche of a people that is invariably in how their teams play.

As the late great Keshi said 'its football anything can happen'.

Against Nigeria - certain things are very likely to happen....you can bet that Nigeria will almost certainly concede goals from set pieces, lose concentration at the most crucial of times. Have off field issues that will destabilize their onfoeld performance. Allow folks to break their duck against them. A striker has scored in moons, he plays against Nigeria, he does his thing, a substitute comes off the bench, he is likely to score against us in record time. I do not think I will be incorrect if the stats show that we have consistently conceded goals from set pieces in every world cup we have played in since 1994.

In the 90s we had outrageously talented players that somehow allowed us to get beyond inferior completion locally, but when it came to the highest levels, we were shown up for what we were. We lost to a relatively poor in form Italian side at the time we came up against them.

Rally through to 98, I still remember with disdain, the attitude of Amokachi and his ilks while on the bench against Paraguay in the last group game chewing gums and smiling away while we were trailing 1-3 because we had qualified for the second round. Clowns were dreaming of playing against Brazil while the Danes beat us like we stole something.

Please lets not talk 2002 or the disaster of 2010.

It is an unserious attitude and lack of attention to detail that has derailed us as a team and often failed to allow a core of players to break through to the highest levels. Couple that with a perennial unprofessional FA, we aint going to be winning anything anytime soon.

The margins have closed up and we no longer have the superior talents of the past.We have not shown ourselves capable of the work ethic of doing the small things well as a people and it shows up in our football.

I truly do not see things picking up anytime soon. I think our football has finally and is finally reflecting the rot and true psyche of the Nigerian nation.

It is hard to give up on one's nation, but life is too short to keep 'fighting' the same battles over and over again.

No one claims any nation has a God given right to win, but bloody hell, why can't we and why do we seem incapable of getting the very basics right.

I still remember Nigeria steam rolling Japan at he Confedrations cup in 1995....look at the gulf in class years down the line.
User avatar
akamoke
Moderator
Posts: 14121
Joined: Tue Nov 30, 2004 4:37 pm
Location: Sandton, SA
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by akamoke »

scholl wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:20 pm No, nothing associated with location 419 warrants the term “tactical”. When you have a people, predisposed to a faith and hope culture, you end up with a mentally weak population. Miracles, without the work required, are what people are conditioned to.

It’s not uncommon to hear; If our coach was this and that, “if only that player didn’t do this or that”, “we will bounce back with this young team and see this as a part of the development”. Mumu country :laugh:
Are you saying you are part of this mumu collectivity and 419 is in your blood, asking for a friend

This rant aside, I think we need the personel to execute any tactics and that means team psychology is important

I was watching the Saudi and Japan game and was wondering if we would have mentally coped with being 2-1 up with seconds to go against Argentina or Germany

We need to find a way to imbibe that into our players, sure playing for the clubs they cope better as they are sorrounded by people who can give them that discipline and encouragement, but when you are collectively nervous it can be devastating

For instance, I dont think the Nigerian team has psychologically recovered from that Tunisia game and this is where we need to start to repair our mindset

Have sweet F-all to do with 419, corruption etc, there are other corrupt countries at the World cup now, you need mental toughness to win WC and that is the intervention our players need. They didnt suddenly become a bad team
For my sceptical Nigerian Friends : Pessimism is great because you are either always right or pleasantly surprised.
gochino
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by gochino »

joao wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm NO matter who is hired to coach the SE, our problem is 'having too many cooks in the kitchen',
and add to that, overhyped and un-committed players.
If the NFF can hire a decent coach, pay him on time and don't interfere with his decisions, then
can we begin to have stability and regain our poise.

Japan against Germany showed a lot of what we lack on the field - focus, cohesion, and
team discipline
. No matter how Japan finish in Qatar, if they keep this up the players and
fans will have nothing to be ashamed of.
Japan is not a small team, contrary to what people think. They have 9 players in the Bundesliga and some EPL players.
User avatar
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 21928
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Enugu II »

gochino wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:33 am
joao wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm NO matter who is hired to coach the SE, our problem is 'having too many cooks in the kitchen',
and add to that, overhyped and un-committed players.
If the NFF can hire a decent coach, pay him on time and don't interfere with his decisions, then
can we begin to have stability and regain our poise.

Japan against Germany showed a lot of what we lack on the field - focus, cohesion, and
team discipline
. No matter how Japan finish in Qatar, if they keep this up the players and
fans will have nothing to be ashamed of.
Japan is not a small team, contrary to what people think. They have 9 players in the Bundesliga and some EPL players.
How many players in big 5 leagues does Saudi Arabia have?
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Robotnik
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3201
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:10 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Robotnik »

Problem is simple. Lack of talent and discipline (attacking and defending). Mostly also the mental capacity to concentrate for 90 mins. No coach can solve that.

Someone should do the average percentage of completed passes of African Teams vs European teams at the world cup. Also the same for set-piece goals, and shots on target then you will see part of what I am talking about.

Ghana and Senegal are two West African Countries with relatively more discipline that Nigeria and more likely to go deeper in a world cup (and this has already happened)
User avatar
anointed
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49720
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:25 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by anointed »

Robotnik wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:09 pm Problem is simple. Lack of talent and discipline (attacking and defending). Mostly also the mental capacity to concentrate for 90 mins. No coach can solve that.

Someone should do the average percentage of completed passes of African Teams vs European teams at the world cup. Also the same for set-piece goals, and shots on target then you will see part of what I am talking about.

Ghana and Senegal are two West African Countries with relatively more discipline that Nigeria and more likely to go deeper in a world cup (and this has already happened)
This will be a good way to start. Away from Nigeria, I saw Ghana struggle to keep possession yesterday. It's just congruous with what SE would do in a position like that. Yet, we are seeing nations with individually more talented players, jettisoning their individual talents, to play in tandem with team tactics. Even Saudi made attempts to take the ball to the corner flag in order to run down the clock.

Our players are way too heady and individualistic. That apart, their football education curriculum did not include team work. It would have been too boring to have every player on our team play like Reuben Agboola but all our players need that basic football education. Well, not that they don't have it, really, because if they fail to be part of the team in their clubs, they get culled but in SE colours, they are different animals.
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
User avatar
Damunk
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49038
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:38 pm
gochino wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:33 am
joao wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm NO matter who is hired to coach the SE, our problem is 'having too many cooks in the kitchen',
and add to that, overhyped and un-committed players.
If the NFF can hire a decent coach, pay him on time and don't interfere with his decisions, then
can we begin to have stability and regain our poise.

Japan against Germany showed a lot of what we lack on the field - focus, cohesion, and
team discipline
. No matter how Japan finish in Qatar, if they keep this up the players and
fans will have nothing to be ashamed of.
Japan is not a small team, contrary to what people think. They have 9 players in the Bundesliga and some EPL players.
How many players in big 5 leagues does Saudi Arabia have?
Prof, I am not sure you are aware, but the Saudi FA loaned out many of its top local players a few years ago to La Liga clubs on a special arrangement to get them playing at a higher level. Unfortunately it didn’t work out for them. But they saw the need to step up.
Just saying…

This thing is multi factorial.
For instance, nine of Saudi’s starting line up and one of their subs all play for the same team, Al-Hilal.
12 of the Saudi WC squad play for tha team.
That alone probably gives them a slight but added advantage over what would otherwise be.
But let us see whether this is a one-off, or a sign that Saudi has become a medium level force.
Upsets are part of what makes football so attractive.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 21928
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Enugu II »

Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:15 am
Enugu II wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:38 pm
gochino wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:33 am
joao wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm NO matter who is hired to coach the SE, our problem is 'having too many cooks in the kitchen',
and add to that, overhyped and un-committed players.
If the NFF can hire a decent coach, pay him on time and don't interfere with his decisions, then
can we begin to have stability and regain our poise.

Japan against Germany showed a lot of what we lack on the field - focus, cohesion, and
team discipline
. No matter how Japan finish in Qatar, if they keep this up the players and
fans will have nothing to be ashamed of.
Japan is not a small team, contrary to what people think. They have 9 players in the Bundesliga and some EPL players.
How many players in big 5 leagues does Saudi Arabia have?
Prof, I am not sure you are aware, but the Saudi FA loaned out many of its top local players a few years ago to La Liga clubs on a special arrangement to get them playing at a higher level. Unfortunately it didn’t work out for them. But they saw the need to step up.
Just saying…

This thing is multi factorial.
For instance, nine of Saudi’s starting line up and one of their subs all play for the same team, Al-Hilal.
12 of the Saudi WC squad play for tha team.
That alone probably gives them a slight but added advantage over what would otherwise be.
But let us see whether this is a one-off, or a sign that Saudi has become a medium level force.
Upsets are part of what makes football so attractive.
Damunk

I am aware of that. That it is multifactorial should be expected and I hope that we all understand it. Thus it means a good player can be found elsewhere although we know the majority will be in the Big 5. That is an important point and I hope we do not forget this point 8 months after the World Cup.

I also hope we come to grips with the decision making of most African players and understand the important nice of remuneration in that decision making.

As for whether it is one off. I do not believe so. It will happen continually in the future but ultimately not enough to immediately upset the balance of football power just yet.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
Damunk
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49038
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 5:57 pm
Location: UK
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:16 pm
Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:15 am
Enugu II wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:38 pm
gochino wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:33 am
joao wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm NO matter who is hired to coach the SE, our problem is 'having too many cooks in the kitchen',
and add to that, overhyped and un-committed players.
If the NFF can hire a decent coach, pay him on time and don't interfere with his decisions, then
can we begin to have stability and regain our poise.

Japan against Germany showed a lot of what we lack on the field - focus, cohesion, and
team discipline
. No matter how Japan finish in Qatar, if they keep this up the players and
fans will have nothing to be ashamed of.
Japan is not a small team, contrary to what people think. They have 9 players in the Bundesliga and some EPL players.
How many players in big 5 leagues does Saudi Arabia have?
Prof, I am not sure you are aware, but the Saudi FA loaned out many of its top local players a few years ago to La Liga clubs on a special arrangement to get them playing at a higher level. Unfortunately it didn’t work out for them. But they saw the need to step up.
Just saying…

This thing is multi factorial.
For instance, nine of Saudi’s starting line up and one of their subs all play for the same team, Al-Hilal.
12 of the Saudi WC squad play for tha team.
That alone probably gives them a slight but added advantage over what would otherwise be.
But let us see whether this is a one-off, or a sign that Saudi has become a medium level force.
Upsets are part of what makes football so attractive.
Damunk

I am aware of that. That it is multifactorial should be expected and I hope that we all understand it. Thus it means a good player can be found elsewhere although we know the majority will be in the Big 5. That is an important point and I hope we do not forget this point 8 months after the World Cup.

I also hope we come to grips with the decision making of most African players and understand the important nice of remuneration in that decision making.

As for whether it is one off. I do not believe so. It will happen continually in the future but ultimately not enough to immediately upset the balance of football power just yet.
By a one-off, I’m referring to Saudi Arabia specifically. Are they going to keep going for a decent number of games, months or even years?
There will ALWAYS be one-off upsets.
That’s why it’s football and that’s why a good coach and his football authorities should not act in a knee-jerk manner when they find themselves at the receiving end.
I trust Argentina and Germany will hold their nerve and not panic, like Nigeria tends to do.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
User avatar
Enugu II
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 21928
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 2:39 am
Location: Super Eagles Homeland
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Enugu II »

Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:48 pm
Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:16 pm
Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:15 am
Enugu II wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 12:38 pm
gochino wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:33 am
joao wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 5:28 pm NO matter who is hired to coach the SE, our problem is 'having too many cooks in the kitchen',
and add to that, overhyped and un-committed players.
If the NFF can hire a decent coach, pay him on time and don't interfere with his decisions, then
can we begin to have stability and regain our poise.

Japan against Germany showed a lot of what we lack on the field - focus, cohesion, and
team discipline
. No matter how Japan finish in Qatar, if they keep this up the players and
fans will have nothing to be ashamed of.
Japan is not a small team, contrary to what people think. They have 9 players in the Bundesliga and some EPL players.
How many players in big 5 leagues does Saudi Arabia have?
Prof, I am not sure you are aware, but the Saudi FA loaned out many of its top local players a few years ago to La Liga clubs on a special arrangement to get them playing at a higher level. Unfortunately it didn’t work out for them. But they saw the need to step up.
Just saying…

This thing is multi factorial.
For instance, nine of Saudi’s starting line up and one of their subs all play for the same team, Al-Hilal.
12 of the Saudi WC squad play for tha team.
That alone probably gives them a slight but added advantage over what would otherwise be.
But let us see whether this is a one-off, or a sign that Saudi has become a medium level force.
Upsets are part of what makes football so attractive.
Damunk

I am aware of that. That it is multifactorial should be expected and I hope that we all understand it. Thus it means a good player can be found elsewhere although we know the majority will be in the Big 5. That is an important point and I hope we do not forget this point 8 months after the World Cup.

I also hope we come to grips with the decision making of most African players and understand the important nice of remuneration in that decision making.

As for whether it is one off. I do not believe so. It will happen continually in the future but ultimately not enough to immediately upset the balance of football power just yet.
By a one-off, I’m referring to Saudi Arabia specifically. Are they going to keep going for a decent number of games, months or even years?
There will ALWAYS be one-off upsets.
That’s why it’s football and that’s why a good coach and his football authorities should not act in a knee-jerk manner when they find themselves at the receiving end.
I trust Argentina and Germany will hold their nerve and not panic, like Nigeria tends to do.
I agree that Saudi could be one off specific to this 2022 World Cup and moving beyond opening round but remember that decades ago one offs did not exist. Thus it is not always. It is a relatively new development. What you refer now as one off is a marker of development. That it even occurs is an indication of the increased dispersal of talent. As you know we have increasingly seen that Saudi type result ... Germany losing at this WC is another.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
User avatar
Enyi
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3437
Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 2:04 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Enyi »

gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm Argentina has beaten us like 5 times in the WC. Even when the
Argies were extremely poor in 2018, we could not be trusted to
get the job done.

The same Saudi that has some of the most horrible WC defeat records
have just beaten a near poor Argentina under Herve Renard, whose
previous jobs with CIV, Zambia and Morocco have proven him to be
astute enough. Ironically, it's not as if Saudi Arabia were exactly
spectacular but only played a horrible Argentina. Don't be surprised if
Saudi loses to Mexico and Poland later on. But the thing can Nigeria
even beat a horrible big name in a setting like the WC?

We have our little successes in football but could we have done better?
I'm beginning to think players are more of the issue with us. Do we have
players who can actually set egos, big man-ism, gifting aside and play
tactically for the team and get results? Just last week, Dennis was fighting
to play a penalties.

I still remarked last week that our player have a penchant for not playing
for the SE the way they play at their clubs. Some of the thing Moses Simon
does in SE shirt will bench him in Nantes. Why can't we play tactically for
the sake of the team? Is it a thing in our football DNA or something our
players pick up in their developments or that we often don't have coaches
who will put their feet down and bench players who don't play for the team?
We've suffered too many near misses of late?
Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
The stupid neither forgive nor forget- the smart forgive- but never forget" -Thomas Szasz.

"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.

“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP

Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
gochino
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by gochino »

Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm Argentina has beaten us like 5 times in the WC. Even when the
Argies were extremely poor in 2018, we could not be trusted to
get the job done.

The same Saudi that has some of the most horrible WC defeat records
have just beaten a near poor Argentina under Herve Renard, whose
previous jobs with CIV, Zambia and Morocco have proven him to be
astute enough. Ironically, it's not as if Saudi Arabia were exactly
spectacular but only played a horrible Argentina. Don't be surprised if
Saudi loses to Mexico and Poland later on. But the thing can Nigeria
even beat a horrible big name in a setting like the WC?

We have our little successes in football but could we have done better?
I'm beginning to think players are more of the issue with us. Do we have
players who can actually set egos, big man-ism, gifting aside and play
tactically for the team and get results? Just last week, Dennis was fighting
to play a penalties.

I still remarked last week that our player have a penchant for not playing
for the SE the way they play at their clubs. Some of the thing Moses Simon
does in SE shirt will bench him in Nantes. Why can't we play tactically for
the sake of the team? Is it a thing in our football DNA or something our
players pick up in their developments or that we often don't have coaches
who will put their feet down and bench players who don't play for the team?
We've suffered too many near misses of late?
Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
User avatar
anointed
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49720
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:25 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by anointed »

gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:35 pm
Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm Argentina has beaten us like 5 times in the WC. Even when the
Argies were extremely poor in 2018, we could not be trusted to
get the job done.

The same Saudi that has some of the most horrible WC defeat records
have just beaten a near poor Argentina under Herve Renard, whose
previous jobs with CIV, Zambia and Morocco have proven him to be
astute enough. Ironically, it's not as if Saudi Arabia were exactly
spectacular but only played a horrible Argentina. Don't be surprised if
Saudi loses to Mexico and Poland later on. But the thing can Nigeria
even beat a horrible big name in a setting like the WC?

We have our little successes in football but could we have done better?
I'm beginning to think players are more of the issue with us. Do we have
players who can actually set egos, big man-ism, gifting aside and play
tactically for the team and get results? Just last week, Dennis was fighting
to play a penalties.

I still remarked last week that our player have a penchant for not playing
for the SE the way they play at their clubs. Some of the thing Moses Simon
does in SE shirt will bench him in Nantes. Why can't we play tactically for
the sake of the team? Is it a thing in our football DNA or something our
players pick up in their developments or that we often don't have coaches
who will put their feet down and bench players who don't play for the team?
We've suffered too many near misses of late?
Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
Not exactly true in the case of Sittard cos he took them to promotion.
I think you are referring to a German small club. See this link:
https://www.completesports.com/oliseh-q ... wo-months/
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
gochino
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by gochino »

anointed wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:20 am
gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:35 pm
Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm Argentina has beaten us like 5 times in the WC. Even when the
Argies were extremely poor in 2018, we could not be trusted to
get the job done.

The same Saudi that has some of the most horrible WC defeat records
have just beaten a near poor Argentina under Herve Renard, whose
previous jobs with CIV, Zambia and Morocco have proven him to be
astute enough. Ironically, it's not as if Saudi Arabia were exactly
spectacular but only played a horrible Argentina. Don't be surprised if
Saudi loses to Mexico and Poland later on. But the thing can Nigeria
even beat a horrible big name in a setting like the WC?

We have our little successes in football but could we have done better?
I'm beginning to think players are more of the issue with us. Do we have
players who can actually set egos, big man-ism, gifting aside and play
tactically for the team and get results? Just last week, Dennis was fighting
to play a penalties.

I still remarked last week that our player have a penchant for not playing
for the SE the way they play at their clubs. Some of the thing Moses Simon
does in SE shirt will bench him in Nantes. Why can't we play tactically for
the sake of the team? Is it a thing in our football DNA or something our
players pick up in their developments or that we often don't have coaches
who will put their feet down and bench players who don't play for the team?
We've suffered too many near misses of late?
Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
Not exactly true in the case of Sittard cos he took them to promotion.
I think you are referring to a German small club. See this link:
https://www.completesports.com/oliseh-q ... wo-months/
No, the german club was recently, he was also sacked at the dutch club.

"Unfortunately for the lovely fans, my players & our hard fought phenomenal positioning for promotion."

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... ore-target
User avatar
Cellular
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 52124
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 5:59 pm
Location: Nembe Creek...Oil Exploration. If you call am bunkering na you sabi.
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Cellular »

anointed wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:07 pm
Tbite wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:06 pm Same, I expected the Saudis to do well against Argentina.

There is merit to this thread. This was no random occurrence. Herve PLANNED this. Can Nigeria execute tactics is a valid question.
Exactimundo!!!
Yes, Naijaria has the ability to execute tactics and execute it well.

But there's also the element of luck.

Keshi did it against unbeatable France in 98 and people said he still lost... but he showed others the template.

**** did it against Argentina but his substitution (late substitution) failed him.

But in terms of tactics, he got it spot on.


I will like to see us play at a World Cup without distractions... let us just focus on tactics and personnel. But alas, it is a tall task.
THERE WAS A COUNTRY...

...can't cry more than the bereaved!

Well done is better than well said!!!
User avatar
anointed
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49720
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:25 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by anointed »

gochino wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:59 pm
anointed wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:20 am
gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:35 pm
Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm Argentina has beaten us like 5 times in the WC. Even when the
Argies were extremely poor in 2018, we could not be trusted to
get the job done.

The same Saudi that has some of the most horrible WC defeat records
have just beaten a near poor Argentina under Herve Renard, whose
previous jobs with CIV, Zambia and Morocco have proven him to be
astute enough. Ironically, it's not as if Saudi Arabia were exactly
spectacular but only played a horrible Argentina. Don't be surprised if
Saudi loses to Mexico and Poland later on. But the thing can Nigeria
even beat a horrible big name in a setting like the WC?

We have our little successes in football but could we have done better?
I'm beginning to think players are more of the issue with us. Do we have
players who can actually set egos, big man-ism, gifting aside and play
tactically for the team and get results? Just last week, Dennis was fighting
to play a penalties.

I still remarked last week that our player have a penchant for not playing
for the SE the way they play at their clubs. Some of the thing Moses Simon
does in SE shirt will bench him in Nantes. Why can't we play tactically for
the sake of the team? Is it a thing in our football DNA or something our
players pick up in their developments or that we often don't have coaches
who will put their feet down and bench players who don't play for the team?
We've suffered too many near misses of late?
Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
Not exactly true in the case of Sittard cos he took them to promotion.
I think you are referring to a German small club. See this link:
https://www.completesports.com/oliseh-q ... wo-months/
No, the german club was recently, he was also sacked at the dutch club.

"Unfortunately for the lovely fans, my players & our hard fought phenomenal positioning for promotion."

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... ore-target
This is what I responded to:
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
His departure from Sittaard wasn't after a few games.
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
gochino
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by gochino »

anointed wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:33 pm
gochino wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:59 pm
anointed wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:20 am
gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:35 pm
Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm

Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
Not exactly true in the case of Sittard cos he took them to promotion.
I think you are referring to a German small club. See this link:
https://www.completesports.com/oliseh-q ... wo-months/
No, the german club was recently, he was also sacked at the dutch club.

"Unfortunately for the lovely fans, my players & our hard fought phenomenal positioning for promotion."

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... ore-target
This is what I responded to:
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
His departure from Sittaard wasn't after a few games.
Dude, the point is he did NOT lead them to promotion.
User avatar
anointed
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49720
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:25 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by anointed »

gochino wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 7:03 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 1:33 pm
gochino wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 5:59 pm
anointed wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 10:20 am
gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 9:35 pm
Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm

Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?
he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....

However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
Not exactly true in the case of Sittard cos he took them to promotion.
I think you are referring to a German small club. See this link:
https://www.completesports.com/oliseh-q ... wo-months/
No, the german club was recently, he was also sacked at the dutch club.

"Unfortunately for the lovely fans, my players & our hard fought phenomenal positioning for promotion."

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/foo ... ore-target
This is what I responded to:
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
His departure from Sittaard wasn't after a few games.
Dude, the point is he did NOT lead them to promotion.
Point is more like moving goal posts.

Oliseh managed more than a few games at Sittard. He was actually in charge for 46 games and spent 18 months there

As I said, this is what I responded to:
That's not true, he was sacked after a few games then another coach took over
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe
gochino
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1481
Joined: Wed Dec 30, 2009 8:35 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by gochino »

Enyi wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:37 pm
gochino wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 4:53 pm
Enyi wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 3:47 pm
anointed wrote: Tue Nov 22, 2022 1:58 pm Argentina has beaten us like 5 times in the WC. Even when the
Argies were extremely poor in 2018, we could not be trusted to
get the job done.

The same Saudi that has some of the most horrible WC defeat records
have just beaten a near poor Argentina under Herve Renard, whose
previous jobs with CIV, Zambia and Morocco have proven him to be
astute enough. Ironically, it's not as if Saudi Arabia were exactly
spectacular but only played a horrible Argentina. Don't be surprised if
Saudi loses to Mexico and Poland later on. But the thing can Nigeria
even beat a horrible big name in a setting like the WC?

We have our little successes in football but could we have done better?
I'm beginning to think players are more of the issue with us. Do we have
players who can actually set egos, big man-ism, gifting aside and play
tactically for the team and get results? Just last week, Dennis was fighting
to play a penalties.

I still remarked last week that our player have a penchant for not playing
for the SE the way they play at their clubs. Some of the thing Moses Simon
does in SE shirt will bench him in Nantes. Why can't we play tactically for
the sake of the team? Is it a thing in our football DNA or something our
players pick up in their developments or that we often don't have coaches
who will put their feet down and bench players who don't play for the team?
We've suffered too many near misses of late?
Bro, Herve Renard is a great coach and game reader. he is practically Hoodle/Oliseh without the ego. i expected the Saudi's to surprise Argentina - not to win but to get a draw or lose narrowly...

Part of the SE problem is the burden of expectation....against Argentina, the fans and the nation will expect them to win without any logical reasoning behind it...that used to be England's problem as well....
Why on earth do you guys keep mentioning Oliseh? What has he done? What has he ever achieved as a coach and what experience does he have?

he took Sittard from the 2nd division to the top division....As far I know, thats the best any local Nigerian coach as achieved in Europe....


However, if you sit with him, you will see/ learn his football ideology
This is actually what I was responding to
Robotnik
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3201
Joined: Wed Dec 31, 2003 8:10 am
Location: Toronto
Contact:
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by Robotnik »

We executed some tactical discipline when Rohr was in charge hence we had some consistent outcomes (qualifying for major competitions, etc) The Argentina goal against Nigeria was as a result of an individual error. Moses did not mark Rojo at the far post. At the highest level you need quality stuff that SE doesn't have at the moment. Players currently do not seem to fulfil the requirements of their positions. You can't have a winger that doesn't cross the ball for instance.
The Portugal game was a friendly but I worry for the current state of SE. No Motivation.

And this is also one of the many problems plaguing our football. We cannot progress if we don't address this...

https://www.owngoalnigeria.com/2022/11/ ... -u23-team/
User avatar
anointed
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 49720
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 8:25 pm
Re: DOES NIGERIA HAVE PROBLEMS PLAYING TACTICALLY?

Post by anointed »

Robotnik wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 4:39 am We executed some tactical discipline when Rohr was in charge hence we had some consistent outcomes (qualifying for major competitions, etc) The Argentina goal against Nigeria was as a result of an individual error. Moses did not mark Rojo at the far post. At the highest level you need quality stuff that SE doesn't have at the moment. Players currently do not seem to fulfil the requirements of their positions. You can't have a winger that doesn't cross the ball for instance.
The Portugal game was a friendly but I worry for the current state of SE. No Motivation.

And this is also one of the many problems plaguing our football. We cannot progress if we don't address this...

https://www.owngoalnigeria.com/2022/11/ ... -u23-team/
'Twas the coach. He was the only who didn't see that Moses was
gasping for breath in that game. In addition, knowing full well
all we needed was a draw, he failed woefully to ring the changes
bring in fresh lungs. And we are even talking of a game we could
have won.
changes
TOUCH NOT MY ANOINTED...
For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding...hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? 21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe

Post Reply