The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by gochino »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:21 am You guys are delusional.

Our local coaches have been responsible for all the worst things to happen to our football in decades. In case you forgot

Egu DNQ WC 2022
Egu worst afcon in 30 years 2021
Oliseh/SSS DNQ afcon 2017
Keshi DNQ afcon 2015
But with the exception of Oliseh and Keshi, these were all interim coaches. Quick question, how many of our foreign coaches were interim coaches? How many of these local coaches have lasted up to 3 yrs on the job? Now focusing on permanent local coaches, Keshi, won Afcon and reached the second round, our best performance ever!
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

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The last time I checked Nigeria won its third Africa Cup of Nations in 2013 after a 19 year drought…and last qualified for a World Cup and reached the round of 16 in 2018 under a Stephen Keshi who captained Nigeria to its Second AFCON title and first World Cup appearance in 1994….instead of celebrating one of our own we will rather belittle his accomplishments….what an ungrateful nation….the same can be said of Coach Amodu who qualified an ungrateful nation twice for a World Cup only to be denied the opportunity to lead his bastardly nation out in the tournament and on each occasion Nigeria never made it out of the group stage…no wonder Nigeria as an entity cobbled together by the imperialist Britts is cursed….can someone please nuke the damm so-called country and let us go our separate ways!
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

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The last time I checked Nigeria won its third Africa Cup of Nations in 2013 after a 19 year drought…and last qualified for a World Cup and reached the round of 16 in 2018 under a Stephen Keshi who captained Nigeria to its Second AFCON title and first World Cup appearance in 1994….instead of celebrating one of our own we will rather belittle his accomplishments….what an ungrateful nation….the same can be said of Coach Amodu who qualified an ungrateful nation twice for a World Cup only to be denied the opportunity to lead his bastardly nation out in the tournament and on each occasion Nigeria never made it out of the group stage…no wonder Nigeria as an entity cobbled together by the imperialist Britts is cursed….can someone please nuke the damm so-called country and let us go our separate ways!
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

fabio wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:43 am
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 1:14 am In light of the very respectable performances by African teams at the World Cup, is it reasonable to keep expending our meager resources on mediocre foreign coaches? Isn’t it time for the NFF to make a policy decision that if a foreign coach must be hired then it should be a coach in the class of a Hiddink or an Ancelotti❓❗️


Cheers.
I can bet most of the foreign coaches in the WC live on the country that employed.

Rohr was a part time contractor as SE coach. He comes in just before a match and leaves after the match.

Living in the country that employed you as a football coach is extremely important as well.
Good point❗️


Cheers.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

Damunk wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:14 am
aruako1 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:54 am It is a local v foreign talent discussion - a discussion going on around the world in many sectors, not just football. Yes, the premises that skin colour does not determine ability is not disputed. However that does not make the following topics redundant -

1. How to get locals coaching the national team and doing well

2. How to make sure that local coaches are treated as well as foreign coaches

These are relevant topics but when one raises them, they are called LC apologists. It is possible to raise these issues without being someone that hates foreign coaches.
But you have forgotten to mention that in the same debate, those that so much as make a case for foreign coaches are routinely ridiculed not to mention insulted. Dem even get name for us: WOWO.
Just to flip your statement, "it is possible to raise these issues without being someone that hates local coaches"- or 'worships' foreign ones. :idea:

Any honest person will know that its more about quality than strictly local vs foreign. There's a paucity of local coaching talent which too many are in denial of. We can't point to ONE Nigerian coach that has the pedigree that Keshi had when he was hired as the SE coach. None. So he is an anomaly in that sense. That is where the debate should lie, not all this 'apologists' vs 'WOWO' nonsense.
That's why I have repeatedly said it is not an honest debate. Its more about firing cheap shots, mostly in the WOWO direction. :lol:
On Peserio, I was not impressed with our game against Portugal. It left me deflated. The issue wasn't even the scoreline, it was the flatness of the whole performance. Nonetheless, Peserio needs more time to understand the players who are willing to play for him. I want to see him do well.
I agree. But there's going to be much more of that if and when we choose to go back to our local coaches, trust me.
And I have said countless times, Nigerians can't handle it. We don't do pain very well.

See...we are already calling for Peseiro's head.
It will only get louder if he doesn't start winning in the next few games.
Nigerian coaches have it far worse.
Damunk, WOWOs are people who insist on foreign coaches under any circumstances and at all cost. If you support an underperforming coach, foreign or local, you should expect to be criticized. They, WOWOs, are also against all local coaches regardless of performance: Amodu and Keshi both come to mind.

With respect to Peseiro, given our level of talent, there’s no reason on earth why he shouldn’t win and if he doesn’t, he should, quite rightly, be held accountable and not get a pass as foreign coaches often do❗️


Cheers.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Enugu II »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:30 pm
Damunk wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 10:14 am
aruako1 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 8:54 am It is a local v foreign talent discussion - a discussion going on around the world in many sectors, not just football. Yes, the premises that skin colour does not determine ability is not disputed. However that does not make the following topics redundant -

1. How to get locals coaching the national team and doing well

2. How to make sure that local coaches are treated as well as foreign coaches

These are relevant topics but when one raises them, they are called LC apologists. It is possible to raise these issues without being someone that hates foreign coaches.
But you have forgotten to mention that in the same debate, those that so much as make a case for foreign coaches are routinely ridiculed not to mention insulted. Dem even get name for us: WOWO.
Just to flip your statement, "it is possible to raise these issues without being someone that hates local coaches"- or 'worships' foreign ones. :idea:

Any honest person will know that its more about quality than strictly local vs foreign. There's a paucity of local coaching talent which too many are in denial of. We can't point to ONE Nigerian coach that has the pedigree that Keshi had when he was hired as the SE coach. None. So he is an anomaly in that sense. That is where the debate should lie, not all this 'apologists' vs 'WOWO' nonsense.
That's why I have repeatedly said it is not an honest debate. Its more about firing cheap shots, mostly in the WOWO direction. :lol:
On Peserio, I was not impressed with our game against Portugal. It left me deflated. The issue wasn't even the scoreline, it was the flatness of the whole performance. Nonetheless, Peserio needs more time to understand the players who are willing to play for him. I want to see him do well.
I agree. But there's going to be much more of that if and when we choose to go back to our local coaches, trust me.
And I have said countless times, Nigerians can't handle it. We don't do pain very well.

See...we are already calling for Peseiro's head.
It will only get louder if he doesn't start winning in the next few games.
Nigerian coaches have it far worse.
Damunk, WOWOs are people who insist on foreign coaches under any circumstances and at all cost. If you support an underperforming coach, foreign or local, you should expect to be criticized. They, WOWOs, are also against all local coaches regardless of performance: Amodu and Keshi both come to mind.

With respect to Peseiro, given our level of talent, there’s no reason on earth why he shouldn’t win and if he doesn’t, he should, quite rightly, be held accountable and not get a pass as foreign coaches often do❗️


Cheers.
TTTK

Good breakdown from the viewpoint of an unbiased arbiter. :clap: :clap:

On Peseiro, it should be clear that he has lost [as far as I can remember without checking rankings] only to teams that were higher ranked than Nigeria. In essence, Nigeria was the underdog in those games. While, we expect Nigeria to win some of those, the reality is that such wins are not and should not be routine. What is routine is beating those lower ranked than Nigeria. This latter task was a difficulty for Rohr during his last games managing Nigeria. Thus, I do not believe that there is yet a compelling reason to can Peseiro.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

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TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:30 pm Damunk, WOWOs are people who insist on foreign coaches under any circumstances and at all cost.
Chief, I wish that were true but it isn’t true at all.
This place became so toxic that should anyone raise a point in his favour, or even contest a lie or misrepresentation (eg, “Algeria beat Nigeria 3-0 in Algiers”) it was ‘WOWOism’, and no so-called objective observer would be charitable enough to correct the obviously false narrative.
The only person I can think of that fits your description is VanCity. The rest of us were lynched for daring to have a contrary view. The fact that most of us stood up for Amodu and Keshi in their own battles with the NFF (and share I say with the fickle Nigerian football fans) counted for nothing because it didn’t fit the silly WOWO picture being painted.
If you support an underperforming coach, foreign or local, you should expect to be criticized. They, WOWOs, are also against all local coaches regardless of performance: Amodu and Keshi both come to mind.
Ah, you’ve actually mentioned them.
You might not recall me pointing out that both Keshi and Amodu were actually hounded out by the fans and not only the NFF. That’s why I say our fans are fickle. Years after their unfortunate deaths, everyone was now shedding crocodile tears for the way they were treated. But when it was happening, even here on CE, the fans were screaming for them to go.
Again, I pointed all this out during the heat of the Rohr fiasco (and before; and after), but surprise-surprise, nobody ‘saw’ it.
You obviously didn’t either.
I can speak for myself: with full chest, I gave Keshi, Amodu and even Siasia my support. Oliseh not so much because I didn’t like how he chopped up the team.
With respect to Peseiro, given our level of talent, there’s no reason on earth why he shouldn’t win and if he doesn’t, he should, quite rightly, be held accountable and not get a pass as foreign coaches often do❗️
Cheers.
Precisely.
But yet again, let me repeat what I have said countless times here to conveniently deaf ears:
If we agree that Nigerian coaches have been treated atrociously in the past, on what moral basis are we insisting on using that as a standard yardstick for treating a foreign coach?
This ‘foreign pass’ that you refer to is vague. What exactly is it?
Maybe what you are really saying is that Nigerian coaches should get the same ‘pass’, eg support, salary (and payment) and respect as the foreigners.

Let’s not even get into the salary issue, because too many people are saying the foreign coaches “cost too much”. Which means they are undermining their own ‘equality’ argument. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Keshi and Oliseh earned roughly the same amount as Rohr, and rightly so.
I know you have contested this in the past, based on Naira evaluation. But Keshi, Oliseh and Rohr were all paid in US$$$$.
So are we saying our local or Nigerian coaches are worth less, or that Keshi and Oliseh were overpaid? :idea:

I’m sure you can see the fallacy of much of the debate. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

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Damunk wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:19 pm
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:30 pm Damunk, WOWOs are people who insist on foreign coaches under any circumstances and at all cost.
Chief, I wish that were true but it isn’t true at all.
This place became so toxic that should anyone raise a point in his favour, or even contest a lie or misrepresentation (eg, “Algeria beat Nigeria 3-0 in Algiers”) it was ‘WOWOism’, and no so-called objective observer would be charitable enough to correct the obviously false narrative.
The only person I can think of that fits your description is VanCity. The rest of us were lynched for daring to have a contrary view. The fact that most of us stood up for Amodu and Keshi in their own battles with the NFF (and share I say with the fickle Nigerian football fans) counted for nothing because it didn’t fit the silly WOWO picture being painted.
If you support an underperforming coach, foreign or local, you should expect to be criticized. They, WOWOs, are also against all local coaches regardless of performance: Amodu and Keshi both come to mind.
Ah, you’ve actually mentioned them.
You might not recall me pointing out that both Keshi and Amodu were actually hounded out by the fans and not only the NFF. That’s why I say our fans are fickle. Years after their unfortunate deaths, everyone was now shedding crocodile tears for the way they were treated. But when it was happening, even here on CE, the fans were screaming for them to go.
Again, I pointed all this out during the heat of the Rohr fiasco (and before; and after), but surprise-surprise, nobody ‘saw’ it.
You obviously didn’t either.
I can speak for myself: with full chest, I gave Keshi, Amodu and even Siasia my support. Oliseh not so much because I didn’t like how he chopped up the team.
With respect to Peseiro, given our level of talent, there’s no reason on earth why he shouldn’t win and if he doesn’t, he should, quite rightly, be held accountable and not get a pass as foreign coaches often do❗️
Cheers.
Precisely.
But yet again, let me repeat what I have said countless times here to conveniently deaf ears:
If we agree that Nigerian coaches have been treated atrociously in the past, on what moral basis are we insisting on using that as a standard yardstick for treating a foreign coach?
This ‘foreign pass’ that you refer to is vague. What exactly is it?
Maybe what you are really saying is that Nigerian coaches should get the same ‘pass’, eg support, salary (and payment) and respect as the foreigners.

Let’s not even get into the salary issue, because too many people are saying the foreign coaches “cost too much”. Which means they are undermining their own ‘equality’ argument. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Keshi and Oliseh earned roughly the same amount as Rohr, and rightly so.
I know you have contested this in the past, based on Naira evaluation. But Keshi, Oliseh and Rohr were all paid in US$$$$.
So are we saying our local or Nigerian coaches are worth less, or that Keshi and Oliseh were overpaid? :idea:

I’m sure you can see the fallacy of much of the debate. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
First of all, let me respond specifically to your comments about giving foreign coaches a pass. How many local coaches would have been retained after an underwhelming performance at the World Cup? As it turned out, the NFF didn’t so much as entertain the option of changing coaches. In my opinion, that would have been the ideal time to jettison Rohr and start over. Compare that to the shenanigans of the NFF who were busy trying to recruit a replacement for Keshi even as he was trying to navigate the World Cup. Secondly, your contention about the salaries of Keshi and Oliseh is simply incorrect. Regardless of which exchange rate you used, official or parallel market rate, Rohr’s salary was in the order of several times that of Keshi or Oliseh. Yes there was a general impression that the foreign coaches are paid too much but that does not imply that local coaches should be paid less. If anyone is undermining local coaches, it is those who are calling the shots and who, for reasons best known to them, are putting a higher premium on foreign coaches than they would on home grown coaches❗️


Cheers.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Enugu II »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:28 pm
Damunk wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 9:19 pm
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 2:30 pm Damunk, WOWOs are people who insist on foreign coaches under any circumstances and at all cost.
Chief, I wish that were true but it isn’t true at all.
This place became so toxic that should anyone raise a point in his favour, or even contest a lie or misrepresentation (eg, “Algeria beat Nigeria 3-0 in Algiers”) it was ‘WOWOism’, and no so-called objective observer would be charitable enough to correct the obviously false narrative.
The only person I can think of that fits your description is VanCity. The rest of us were lynched for daring to have a contrary view. The fact that most of us stood up for Amodu and Keshi in their own battles with the NFF (and share I say with the fickle Nigerian football fans) counted for nothing because it didn’t fit the silly WOWO picture being painted.
If you support an underperforming coach, foreign or local, you should expect to be criticized. They, WOWOs, are also against all local coaches regardless of performance: Amodu and Keshi both come to mind.
Ah, you’ve actually mentioned them.
You might not recall me pointing out that both Keshi and Amodu were actually hounded out by the fans and not only the NFF. That’s why I say our fans are fickle. Years after their unfortunate deaths, everyone was now shedding crocodile tears for the way they were treated. But when it was happening, even here on CE, the fans were screaming for them to go.
Again, I pointed all this out during the heat of the Rohr fiasco (and before; and after), but surprise-surprise, nobody ‘saw’ it.
You obviously didn’t either.
I can speak for myself: with full chest, I gave Keshi, Amodu and even Siasia my support. Oliseh not so much because I didn’t like how he chopped up the team.
With respect to Peseiro, given our level of talent, there’s no reason on earth why he shouldn’t win and if he doesn’t, he should, quite rightly, be held accountable and not get a pass as foreign coaches often do❗️
Cheers.
Precisely.
But yet again, let me repeat what I have said countless times here to conveniently deaf ears:
If we agree that Nigerian coaches have been treated atrociously in the past, on what moral basis are we insisting on using that as a standard yardstick for treating a foreign coach?
This ‘foreign pass’ that you refer to is vague. What exactly is it?
Maybe what you are really saying is that Nigerian coaches should get the same ‘pass’, eg support, salary (and payment) and respect as the foreigners.

Let’s not even get into the salary issue, because too many people are saying the foreign coaches “cost too much”. Which means they are undermining their own ‘equality’ argument. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
Keshi and Oliseh earned roughly the same amount as Rohr, and rightly so.
I know you have contested this in the past, based on Naira evaluation. But Keshi, Oliseh and Rohr were all paid in US$$$$.
So are we saying our local or Nigerian coaches are worth less, or that Keshi and Oliseh were overpaid? :idea:

I’m sure you can see the fallacy of much of the debate. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
First of all, let me respond specifically to your comments about giving foreign coaches a pass. How many local coaches would have been retained after an underwhelming performance at the World Cup? As it turned out, the NFF didn’t so much as entertain the option of changing coaches. In my opinion, that would have been the ideal time to jettison Rohr and start over. Compare that to the shenanigans of the NFF who were busy trying to recruit a replacement for Keshi even as he was trying to navigate the World Cup. Secondly, your contention about the salaries of Keshi and Oliseh is simply incorrect. Regardless of which exchange rate you used, official or parallel market rate, Rohr’s salary was in the order of several times that of Keshi or Oliseh. Yes there was a general impression that the foreign coaches are paid too much but that does not imply that local coaches should be paid less. If anyone is undermining local coaches, it is those who are calling the shots and who, for reasons best known to them, are putting a higher premium on foreign coaches than they would on home grown coaches❗️


Cheers.
TTTK

You really do not need to explain. For anyone who follows the hiring of NT coaches, the expatriate has never been paid at par with a Nigerian. Note that when these issues were brought up during Keshi and Oliseh, the NFF claimed that much of the money paid to the expatriates was to cover the assistants that came with them. Why are the Nigerians not allowed that freedom and even in Keshi's case [somewhat with Oliseh as well] where he was allowed a say on hiring of assistants, the NFF interfered with those soon after.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:47 pm]

TTTK

You really do not need to explain. For anyone who follows the hiring of NT coaches, the expatriate has never been paid at par with a Nigerian. Note that when these issues were brought up during Keshi and Oliseh, the NFF claimed that much of the money paid to the expatriates was to cover the assistants that came with them. Why are the Nigerians not allowed that freedom and even in Keshi's case [somewhat with Oliseh as well] where he was allowed a say on hiring of assistants, the NFF interfered with those soon after.
Prof, could you kindly tell us how much Keshi was paid monthly and how much “the white man” was paid, since you seem to be in agreement with TTTK. The figures are not hard to dig up. Since myself and TTTK have clashed over this in the past, kindly act as a referee.
It’s baffling that despite the fact that this has been brought up several times in the past, you do not seem to be aware of the figures.
It only goes to show that everyone is capable of consciously and subconsciously deselecting inconvenient truths.
Please, do me this favour.

I am very happy to be shown that I have got it totally wrong.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Enugu II »

Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:43 am
Enugu II wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:47 pm]

TTTK

You really do not need to explain. For anyone who follows the hiring of NT coaches, the expatriate has never been paid at par with a Nigerian. Note that when these issues were brought up during Keshi and Oliseh, the NFF claimed that much of the money paid to the expatriates was to cover the assistants that came with them. Why are the Nigerians not allowed that freedom and even in Keshi's case [somewhat with Oliseh as well] where he was allowed a say on hiring of assistants, the NFF interfered with those soon after.
Prof, could you kindly tell us how much Keshi was paid monthly and how much “the white man” was paid, since you seem to be in agreement with TTTK. The figures are not hard to dig up. Since myself and TTTK have clashed over this in the past, kindly act as a referee.
It’s baffling that despite the fact that this has been brought up several times in the past, you do not seem to be aware of the figures.
It only goes to show that everyone is capable of consciously and subconsciously deselecting inconvenient truths.
Please, do me this favour.

I am very happy to be shown that I have got it totally wrong.
Damunk

You can dig up as well and post here. Please dig up and post what the following were paid: Lagerbach, Keshi, Oliseh, Amodu, and Rohr.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:43 am
Enugu II wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:47 pm]

TTTK

You really do not need to explain. For anyone who follows the hiring of NT coaches, the expatriate has never been paid at par with a Nigerian. Note that when these issues were brought up during Keshi and Oliseh, the NFF claimed that much of the money paid to the expatriates was to cover the assistants that came with them. Why are the Nigerians not allowed that freedom and even in Keshi's case [somewhat with Oliseh as well] where he was allowed a say on hiring of assistants, the NFF interfered with those soon after.
Prof, could you kindly tell us how much Keshi was paid monthly and how much “the white man” was paid, since you seem to be in agreement with TTTK. The figures are not hard to dig up. Since myself and TTTK have clashed over this in the past, kindly act as a referee.
It’s baffling that despite the fact that this has been brought up several times in the past, you do not seem to be aware of the figures.
It only goes to show that everyone is capable of consciously and subconsciously deselecting inconvenient truths.
Please, do me this favour.

I am very happy to be shown that I have got it totally wrong.
😀😀😀 Damunk, I suspect that whatever figures EII comes up with won’t be acceptable to you. The last time we had this argument, you had a problem with the exchange rates. The choices for exchange rates are finite and limited. It depends on the period in question and is either the official exchange rate or the parallel market rate during the period in question. I pointed out that regardless of which exchange rate used, Rohr’s salary was in the order of several times that of Keshi and Oliseh but you simply refused to accept the figures. What’s gonna change now❓😀😀😀❗️


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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by vancity eagle »

Coaching is not the main problem.

Countless coaches and same result.

The problem is with the players and their willingness to give their all.

See my thread.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Tobi17 »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:26 am Coaching is not the main problem.

Countless coaches and same result.

The problem is with the players and their willingness to give their all.

See my thread.
Ours is more of a midfield conundrum than anything else, player mentality of course is a different topic of its own...my mainstay submission is that if our national team managers were dynamic and cerebral enough to build the team around the midfield (given our plethora of strikers), we should be able to do better than our talent level suggests.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by vancity eagle »

Tobi17 wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:27 am
vancity eagle wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:26 am Coaching is not the main problem.

Countless coaches and same result.

The problem is with the players and their willingness to give their all.

See my thread.
Ours is more of a midfield conundrum than anything else, player mentality of course is a different topic of its own...my mainstay submission is that if our national team managers were dynamic and cerebral enough to build the team around the midfield (given our plethora of strikers), we should be able to do better than our talent level suggests.
Yes the midfield thing is a problem, but our players do not want to work. They stand around waiting for the ball. There is no fight, no desire.

Look at that clown Simon Moses fighting for Pepes shirt after we were embarrassed. Will Portugese players do that ? That is everything that is wrong with our team.

It's the lack of fight and thinking you can just check out periodically throughout a match.

People said this long ago, but I see it now seeing the high intensity some of these WC teams are bringing.
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Damunk »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:01 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:43 am
Enugu II wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:47 pm]

TTTK

You really do not need to explain. For anyone who follows the hiring of NT coaches, the expatriate has never been paid at par with a Nigerian. Note that when these issues were brought up during Keshi and Oliseh, the NFF claimed that much of the money paid to the expatriates was to cover the assistants that came with them. Why are the Nigerians not allowed that freedom and even in Keshi's case [somewhat with Oliseh as well] where he was allowed a say on hiring of assistants, the NFF interfered with those soon after.
Prof, could you kindly tell us how much Keshi was paid monthly and how much “the white man” was paid, since you seem to be in agreement with TTTK. The figures are not hard to dig up. Since myself and TTTK have clashed over this in the past, kindly act as a referee.
It’s baffling that despite the fact that this has been brought up several times in the past, you do not seem to be aware of the figures.
It only goes to show that everyone is capable of consciously and subconsciously deselecting inconvenient truths.
Please, do me this favour. :D

I am very happy to be shown that I have got it totally wrong.
Damunk

You can dig up as well and post here. Please dig up and post what the following were paid: Lagerbach, Keshi, Oliseh, Amodu, and Rohr.
Prof, I am an ‘interested’ party here.
Biko, kindly act as the arbitrator in this ‘pay dispute’.:D
It’s important that an unbiased party solves this long running battle between myself and TTTK.

And Prof, the issue does not go back as far as Amodu because there is no dispute - none at all - that Amodu and all other Nigerian coaches were paid peanuts compared to their foreign counterparts.
The issue is that Keshi changed all that according to what is on public record. That is what is in dispute.
Thanks Prof.
:thumb:
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Damunk
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Damunk »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:41 am
Damunk wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:43 am
Enugu II wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:47 pm]

TTTK

You really do not need to explain. For anyone who follows the hiring of NT coaches, the expatriate has never been paid at par with a Nigerian. Note that when these issues were brought up during Keshi and Oliseh, the NFF claimed that much of the money paid to the expatriates was to cover the assistants that came with them. Why are the Nigerians not allowed that freedom and even in Keshi's case [somewhat with Oliseh as well] where he was allowed a say on hiring of assistants, the NFF interfered with those soon after.
Prof, could you kindly tell us how much Keshi was paid monthly and how much “the white man” was paid, since you seem to be in agreement with TTTK. The figures are not hard to dig up. Since myself and TTTK have clashed over this in the past, kindly act as a referee.
It’s baffling that despite the fact that this has been brought up several times in the past, you do not seem to be aware of the figures.
It only goes to show that everyone is capable of consciously and subconsciously deselecting inconvenient truths.
Please, do me this favour.

I am very happy to be shown that I have got it totally wrong.
😀😀😀 Damunk, I suspect that whatever figures EII comes up with won’t be acceptable to you. The last time we had this argument, you had a problem with the exchange rates. The choices for exchange rates are finite and limited. It depends on the period in question and is either the official exchange rate or the parallel market rate during the period in question. I pointed out that regardless of which exchange rate used, Rohr’s salary was in the order of several times that of Keshi and Oliseh but you simply refused to accept the figures. What’s gonna change now❓😀😀😀❗️


Cheers.
Yes chief. I am very aware of your position.
This is why I am asking for an arbitrator to examine your evidence which I argued was totally upside down. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
I’m sure you do not have a problem with that.
We need to put the record straight abi?

It’s all part of the fun on CE. :D
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
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Damunk
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by Damunk »

Prof, we are still waiting your verdict o. E be like say yo don’t want to put mouth because I suspect you know the verdict but don’t want to embarrass anybody :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:

Meanwhile, here are the salaries of the 32 coaches in Qatar:
Best Paid Head Coaches in 2022 FIFA World Cup

1. Hans-Dieter Flick (GERMANY) – €6.500.000
2. Gareth Southgate (ENGLAND) – €5.800.000
3. Didier Deschamps (FRANCE) – €3.800.000
4. Tite (BRAZIL) – €3.600.000
5. Louis van Gaal (NETHERLANDS) – €2.900.000
6. Gerardo Martino (MEXICO) – €2.900.000
7. Lionel Scaloni (ARGENTINA) – €2.600.000
8. Félix Sánchez Bas (QATAR) – €2.400.000
9. Fernando Santos (PORTUGAL) – €2.250.000
10. Murat Yakın (SWITZERLAND) – €1.600.000
11. Paulo Bento (SOUTH KOREA) – €1.300.000
12. Graham Arnold (AUSTRALIA) – €1.300.000
13. Gregg Berhalter (USA) – €1.250.000
14. Roberto Martínez (BELGIUM) – €1.200.000
15. Kasper Hjulmand (DENMARK) – €1.150.000
16. Luis Enrique (SPAIN) – €1.150.000
17. Hervé Renard (SAUDI ARABIA) – €1.100.000
18. Hajime Moriyasu (JAPAN) – €1.050.000
19. Vahid Halilhodžić (MAROCCO) – €920.000
20. Diego Alonso (URUGUAY) – €860.000
21. Gustavo J. Alfaro (ECUADOR) – €770.000
22. Dragan Stojković (SERBIA) – €650.000
23. Dragan Skočić (IRAN) – €650.000
24. Zlatko Dalić (CROATIA) – €550.000
25. Czesław Michniewicz (POLAND) – €500.000
26. John Herdman (CANADA) – €480.000
27. Chris Hughton (GHANA) – €400.000
28. Rob Page (WALES) – €380.000
29. Luis F. Suárez (COSTA RICA) – €350.000
30. Rigobert Song (CAMEROON) – €340.000
31. Aliou Cissé (SENEGAL) – €310.000
32. Jalel Kadri (TUNISIA) – €130.000

Source: https://financefootball.com/2022/07/04/ ... world-cup/
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amafolas
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Re: The Nigerian Coaching Conondrum…

Post by amafolas »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:26 am Coaching is not the main problem.

Countless coaches and same result.

The problem is with the players and their willingness to give their all.

See my thread.
Only a person who has never coached or led before can say something this stupid. In addition to tactics and selecting players, motivating players to work towards a common goal is probably the biggest job a coach has. That's actually where Keshi was superior to just about any coach we have hired in my lifetime.

That you don't realize that's a very crucial part of the job of a coach, explains why you never could see or appreciate Keshi's prowess as a coach. You were too blinded by his player selection that you felt was compromised.
"We will go through the gate. If the gate is closed, we will go over the fence. If the fence is too high, we will pole vault in. If that doesn’t work, we will parachute in. But we are going to get health-care reform passed"
Nancy Pelosi, 01/28/2010 after Scott Brown got elected to Ted Kennedy's senate seat.

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