SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

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SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by vancity eagle »

:clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Kai it was Saudi oh !!!!!!!!!!
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by vancity eagle »

Shame on Nigeria by the way.

Common Saudi beat up our husband. Kai
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by greg »

Only a coach like Herve Renard can pull off a result like that. If NFF was going to fire Rohr in a Fire Brigade way, then the least they could have done was pick a veteran who is known to excel in such short handed situations. Others like Leroy, Qeiroz etc are also known to excel with limited time and limited players.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Tbite »

I think this is a very important moment to dwell on.

It seems like such a simple message, yet the NFF and most of our fans don't seem to grasp it. We simplify the argument as FC vs LC, when not all FCs are made equal.

There is a big difference between the likes of Jo Bonfrère, Renard and the likes of Lagerback and Paul Put.

Usually when the NFF shortlist managers, it is never a resume that speaks for itself, it is almost always a pitiful resume, even before the first kick of the ball! The choice is almost always so bad, that it wreaks of corruption more than even incompetence.

Almost as if there is some sort of under the table deal or money laundering going on. The notion that you can pick a guy from the third division of Belgium or second division of France and expect him to perform just because he is white is moronic.

Rohr was an inbetween choice, somewhere between a decent selection and a terrible selection. Even when the NFF made a decent pick (on paper) in Berti Vogts, the issue there was compatibility. The type of regiment needed from such a coach is entirely absent in Africa. Square pegs for round holes.

When you hire an FC, you essentially need a decent resume AND the ability to comprehend African football. We essentially always hire based on only 1 of these attributes, and sometimes even zero! If there is no coach that fits the bill, then do you know what you do? You DO NOT hire an FC. If you cannot find someone like Renard, you DO NOT hire an FC.

It is better to fail with an LC (lower cost) than to hire a wrong fit FC (higher cost). You NEVER EVER EVER EVER hire an FC below the standard of a Westerhoff or a Renard etc. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER. No ifs, no maybes. Anything else is corruption.

and yes we should dwell on this. The point needs to hit home. If we need to open 20 threads on this, then so be it. This is an important moment to dwell on and reflect on. FCs are not created equal.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by The YeyeMan »

I think most people know that all FCs are not of the same standard - same rule applies to LCs.

The FC v LC debate is over 20 years old on this forum so is worn out now. The NFF/Pinnick doesn't really have a clue - just oscillates between foreign and local with little clear strategy on how to develop and support the national team.

I'm also forming the view that the generation of Oliseh, Siasia, Amunike, Finidi etc have had their moment and the NFF should start to attract younger coaches more attuned to analytics and data and at least make hiring decisions informed by data.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by maceo4 »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:31 am :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

Kai it was Saudi oh !!!!!!!!!!
With somersaults and all!
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Damunk »

vancity eagle wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 12:31 am Shame on Nigeria by the way.

Common Saudi beat up our husband. Kai
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
So VanCity get sense of humour? #stunned
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Damunk »

Tbite wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:56 am I think this is a very important moment to dwell on.

It seems like such a simple message, yet the NFF and most of our fans don't seem to grasp it. We simplify the argument as FC vs LC, when not all FCs are made equal.

There is a big difference between the likes of Jo Bonfrère, Renard and the likes of Lagerback and Paul Put.

Usually when the NFF shortlist managers, it is never a resume that speaks for itself, it is almost always a pitiful resume, even before the first kick of the ball! The choice is almost always so bad, that it wreaks of corruption more than even incompetence.

Almost as if there is some sort of under the table deal or money laundering going on. The notion that you can pick a guy from the third division of Belgium or second division of France and expect him to perform just because he is white is moronic.

Rohr was an inbetween choice, somewhere between a decent selection and a terrible selection. Even when the NFF made a decent pick (on paper) in Berti Vogts, the issue there was compatibility. The type of regiment needed from such a coach is entirely absent in Africa. Square pegs for round holes.

When you hire an FC, you essentially need a decent resume AND the ability to comprehend African football. We essentially always hire based on only 1 of these attributes, and sometimes even zero! If there is no coach that fits the bill, then do you know what you do? You DO NOT hire an FC. If you cannot find someone like Renard, you DO NOT hire an FC.

It is better to fail with an LC (lower cost) than to hire a wrong fit FC (higher cost). You NEVER EVER EVER EVER hire an FC below the standard of a Westerhoff or a Renard etc. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER. No ifs, no maybes. Anything else is corruption.

and yes we should dwell on this. The point needs to hit home. If we need to open 20 threads on this, then so be it. This is an important moment to dwell on and reflect on. FCs are not created equal.
Chief, what was Westerhoff’s resume before we hired him?
And what did he do after?
Westerhoff was just another journeyman that came good.
Trust me. This was probably before your time.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by packerland »

:D
Damunk wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:45 am
Tbite wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:56 am I think this is a very important moment to dwell on.

It seems like such a simple message, yet the NFF and most of our fans don't seem to grasp it. We simplify the argument as FC vs LC, when not all FCs are made equal.

There is a big difference between the likes of Jo Bonfrère, Renard and the likes of Lagerback and Paul Put.

Usually when the NFF shortlist managers, it is never a resume that speaks for itself, it is almost always a pitiful resume, even before the first kick of the ball! The choice is almost always so bad, that it wreaks of corruption more than even incompetence.

Almost as if there is some sort of under the table deal or money laundering going on. The notion that you can pick a guy from the third division of Belgium or second division of France and expect him to perform just because he is white is moronic.

Rohr was an inbetween choice, somewhere between a decent selection and a terrible selection. Even when the NFF made a decent pick (on paper) in Berti Vogts, the issue there was compatibility. The type of regiment needed from such a coach is entirely absent in Africa. Square pegs for round holes.

When you hire an FC, you essentially need a decent resume AND the ability to comprehend African football. We essentially always hire based on only 1 of these attributes, and sometimes even zero! If there is no coach that fits the bill, then do you know what you do? You DO NOT hire an FC. If you cannot find someone like Renard, you DO NOT hire an FC.

It is better to fail with an LC (lower cost) than to hire a wrong fit FC (higher cost). You NEVER EVER EVER EVER hire an FC below the standard of a Westerhoff or a Renard etc. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER. No ifs, no maybes. Anything else is corruption.

and yes we should dwell on this. The point needs to hit home. If we need to open 20 threads on this, then so be it. This is an important moment to dwell on and reflect on. FCs are not created equal.
Chief, what was Westerhoff’s resume before we hired him?
And what did he do after?
Westerhoff was just another journeyman that came good.
Trust me. This was probably before your time.
Damunk,

You knucklehead too Dey like trouble Lol

Tbite and Yeyeman just spilled some truth. :clap: Westerhoff might be an average or below average coach but he’s saying go for better & don’t hire people that are even lesser than Westerhoff. You have to draw a line somewhere.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by vancity eagle »

Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Enugu II »

vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:14 am Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
Precisely. They both had better resumes than Westerhoff at the time of Nigerian hire.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Tobi17 »

vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:14 am Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
You're becoming really annoying, every sane minded Nigerian fan should be asking for Pisseiro's probative contract to be terminated cause the man just wants to use Nigeria to boost his mediocre resume, let a local coach take over in the mean time until we sort out our mess in the coming years, a man who still tows the dinosaur reasoning of inviting a meager number of out-of-form/washed up midfielders even in friendly matches should be no where near a national team, Pisseiro is pure garbage, Rohr is actually better than this clown. When are we seriously going to get a modern thinking coach that understands that teams are built around the midfield? from Rohr, Eguavoen to this fraud the same pattern continues, is there some clause in the contracts of these managers not to call up midfielders?
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by vancity eagle »

Tobi17 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:13 am
vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:14 am Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
You're becoming really annoying, every sane minded Nigerian fan should be asking for Pisseiro's probative contract to be terminated cause the man just wants to use Nigeria to boost his mediocre resume, let a local coach take over in the mean time until we sort out our mess in the coming years, a man who still tows the dinosaur reasoning of inviting a meager number of out-of-form/washed up midfielders even in friendly matches should be no where near a national team, Pisseiro is pure garbage, Rohr is actually better than this clown. When are we seriously going to get a modern thinking coach that understands that teams are built around the midfield? from Rohr, Eguavoen to this fraud the same pattern continues, is there some clause in the contracts of these managers not to call up midfielders?
You are a notorious flip flopper whose emotions change as if it's that time of month.

You think hiring a local coach will suddenly help address our midfield problems ?

Who wrote a thesis on 442 and doubled down on Rohrs mistakes ?

Peseiro is unbeaten in competitive matches and broke a record with 10 goals scored. You guys are acting like emotional women because of a friendly.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by mcal »

The YeyeMan wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 3:17 am I think most people know that all FCs are not of the same standard - same rule applies to LCs.

The FC v LC debate is over 20 years old on this forum so is worn out now. The NFF/Pinnick doesn't really have a clue - just oscillates between foreign and local with little clear strategy on how to develop and support the national team.

I'm also forming the view that the generation of Oliseh, Siasia, Amunike, Finidi etc have had their moment and the NFF should start to attract younger coaches more attuned to analytics and data and at least make hiring decisions informed by data.
...also most people know that all FAs are not of same standard in organization, logistics and running of their football.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by waka-man »

vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:57 am
Tobi17 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:13 am
vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:14 am Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
You're becoming really annoying, every sane minded Nigerian fan should be asking for Pisseiro's probative contract to be terminated cause the man just wants to use Nigeria to boost his mediocre resume, let a local coach take over in the mean time until we sort out our mess in the coming years, a man who still tows the dinosaur reasoning of inviting a meager number of out-of-form/washed up midfielders even in friendly matches should be no where near a national team, Pisseiro is pure garbage, Rohr is actually better than this clown. When are we seriously going to get a modern thinking coach that understands that teams are built around the midfield? from Rohr, Eguavoen to this fraud the same pattern continues, is there some clause in the contracts of these managers not to call up midfielders?
You are a notorious flip flopper whose emotions change as if it's that time of month.

You think hiring a local coach will suddenly help address our midfield problems ?

Who wrote a thesis on 442 and doubled down on Rohrs mistakes ?

Peseiro is unbeaten in competitive matches and broke a record with 10 goals scored. You guys are acting like emotional women because of a friendly.
Kai, unbeaten in competitive matches against SL and ST are now are bragging rights.

Peseiro abi na Peso Euro is not fit to coach a major NT. But maybe we no longer have a major NT so he’s just fine.

But if you ask me, he’s already shown enough that we’re not going anywhere with him.

As for Rene, born winner. The kind of FC we should go for if we must.

I still think a local coach, perhaps with a mentor of sorts, is the answer. Right now I would ask Amunike to do it - African experience, played at the highest level - and go from there.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by akamoke »

vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:57 am
Tobi17 wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 3:13 am
vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:14 am Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
You're becoming really annoying, every sane minded Nigerian fan should be asking for Pisseiro's probative contract to be terminated cause the man just wants to use Nigeria to boost his mediocre resume, let a local coach take over in the mean time until we sort out our mess in the coming years, a man who still tows the dinosaur reasoning of inviting a meager number of out-of-form/washed up midfielders even in friendly matches should be no where near a national team, Pisseiro is pure garbage, Rohr is actually better than this clown. When are we seriously going to get a modern thinking coach that understands that teams are built around the midfield? from Rohr, Eguavoen to this fraud the same pattern continues, is there some clause in the contracts of these managers not to call up midfielders?
You are a notorious flip flopper whose emotions change as if it's that time of month.

You think hiring a local coach will suddenly help address our midfield problems ?

Who wrote a thesis on 442 and doubled down on Rohrs mistakes ?

Peseiro is unbeaten in competitive matches and broke a record with 10 goals scored. You guys are acting like emotional women because of a friendly.
Dude, we still remember your emotional roller coaster during 2013 Nations cup. By the way did you get that CIV citizenship, we haven't heard much about the progress on that front :biggrin:
For my sceptical Nigerian Friends : Pessimism is great because you are either always right or pleasantly surprised.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Robotnik »

It is not about coach. It is psychological. The way Argentina plays gets into Nigerias heads and we get outsmarted at the end.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Sunset »

How quickly we forget these two legendary results, I thought these games were proof we'd go on to be World beaters?
:oops: :rotf:



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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Tbite »

Damunk wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 7:45 am
Tbite wrote: Wed Nov 23, 2022 2:56 am I think this is a very important moment to dwell on.

It seems like such a simple message, yet the NFF and most of our fans don't seem to grasp it. We simplify the argument as FC vs LC, when not all FCs are made equal.

There is a big difference between the likes of Jo Bonfrère, Renard and the likes of Lagerback and Paul Put.

Usually when the NFF shortlist managers, it is never a resume that speaks for itself, it is almost always a pitiful resume, even before the first kick of the ball! The choice is almost always so bad, that it wreaks of corruption more than even incompetence.

Almost as if there is some sort of under the table deal or money laundering going on. The notion that you can pick a guy from the third division of Belgium or second division of France and expect him to perform just because he is white is moronic.

Rohr was an inbetween choice, somewhere between a decent selection and a terrible selection. Even when the NFF made a decent pick (on paper) in Berti Vogts, the issue there was compatibility. The type of regiment needed from such a coach is entirely absent in Africa. Square pegs for round holes.

When you hire an FC, you essentially need a decent resume AND the ability to comprehend African football. We essentially always hire based on only 1 of these attributes, and sometimes even zero! If there is no coach that fits the bill, then do you know what you do? You DO NOT hire an FC. If you cannot find someone like Renard, you DO NOT hire an FC.

It is better to fail with an LC (lower cost) than to hire a wrong fit FC (higher cost). You NEVER EVER EVER EVER hire an FC below the standard of a Westerhoff or a Renard etc. NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER. No ifs, no maybes. Anything else is corruption.

and yes we should dwell on this. The point needs to hit home. If we need to open 20 threads on this, then so be it. This is an important moment to dwell on and reflect on. FCs are not created equal.
Chief, what was Westerhoff’s resume before we hired him?
And what did he do after?
Westerhoff was just another journeyman that came good.
Trust me. This was probably before your time.
There is a dimension missing in my analysis then, but your assertion that he was a journeyman is incorrect. both he and Bonfrere had not ventured far and wide at that point. The key point in the resume is their knowledge of Dutch total football which they translated to Go-on-soun.

I would add that the new dimension is 'tactical acumen'. They had that common experience from MVV.

That is essentially finding a diamond in the rough. It would be like hiring a Mikel Arteta. That is very different from journeymen who have no tactical acumen.
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Re: SO THE GWG FINALLY BEATS ARGENTINA !!!!!

Post by Tbite »

vancity eagle wrote: Thu Nov 24, 2022 1:14 am Peseiro has a better resume than Westerhoff, and so did Rohr.
Westerhoff and Bonfrere were at the beginning of their careers, I wouldn't call a limited resume a bad resume. That would rule out people like Arteta. If you can find a diamond in the rough, then that is even better than a solid resume, because you get a bargain.

What I was trying to caution against is employing people with an extensive patchwork of a resume, with no clear tactical acumen. I.e. taking a stab at the dark.

Maybe we got lucky with Bonfrere and Westerhoff, but hindsight 20/20 the logic holds water. Their brand of football suited out personnel, what was the rationale behind hiring Peseiro.

And yes I am shifting the goalpost, because I am refining my argument.

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