IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by marutimon »

I've seen two sides from Africa with grit and determination at this World Cup: Tunisia (they gave it their all vs Denmark) and Ghana (yes, they loss and were poor when playing for a draw, but the moment they went a goal down they gave it there all - that said terrible mistakes on 2 and 3 goal).
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by YUJAM »

Chief. Nothing is certain yet. We don’t have a large enough data set about the WC to make the conclusions that VE came up with. Japan and Saudi pulled off big upsets but what happens if they lose the rest of their games? Do VE’s observations become moot?
Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:11 am
YUJAM wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:00 am Wait till the tourney ends for theses.
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You actually do not need to wait. We have been witnessing this in games even before now. Thus, there is no reason to wait for end of tourney. The only mystery that the end of tourney will bring is whether multiple African teams will advance beyond the first round.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by vancity eagle »

My point is about African players thinking they can get the job done without putting in maximum effort.

Does the US ever approach games like this ?

There is plenty of data to support this, I dont need to see the rest of the WC.

I agree though that Ghana are kind of an exception. They have never had the greatest teams but they all work as a unit and are very determined.

Dede Ayew especially, although his brother is absolutely useless.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by amafolas »

all gra gra without organization will earn you nada.
all gra gra without being very conditioned will lead to you tiring late, and conceding late goals

heart and determination can make up for gra gra. Wanna know who pumped an undertalented team full of hear and belief. The great Stephen Keshi and his overachieving team that won AFCON 2013, and nearly beat France. Yet you VE was here dissing him day and night.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Enugu II »

Orion wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:44 am
Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:58 am VE
Halleluyah!!! You finally, see the light. Now you understand when we point out that BS about playing in BIG 5 league was exactly that -- BS. In African player cases, I have noted, tgat playing in a Big 5 league does not make one better than a guy playing in the Middle East or other leagues because of economic dictates.
But getting into those clubs and staying there surely shows some level of professionalism and work ethic, on top of whatever natural skill the player has. Those clubs are businesses. If you're lazy, you don't survive.

This problem is more complex than people are making out. People are looking for simple answers, but there are no simple answers. First, you need to start with talented players. Senegal won the AFCON because they're more talented than Nigeria right now.

And even if you talk of local players. Didn't our local guys get tossed out of the CHAN qualifiers recently? Even on that front, they're failing against African-based opposition.
Sure.... But the point is that the goal of many African players is not essentially to get to those clubs but to earn a good pay day. If that big payday is in Saudi Arabia, they will head to Saudi Arabia. These economic issues must be part of the equation. These players will take a move to Saudi Arabia over one to La Liga if the compensation in Saudi Arabia is more. This is what I note is important in these cases. Another issue missing is also that some footballers may consider the local language before making a decision if the pay from those options are similar. One thing we must understand is that football is not different from a labor location decision that any other person would make coming from Nigeria. This is nothing but an employment decision -- forget what this or that fan may think or hope for.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by vancity eagle »

amafolas wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:20 am all gra gra without organization will earn you nada.
all gra gra without being very conditioned will lead to you tiring late, and conceding late goals

heart and determination can make up for gra gra. Wanna know who pumped an undertalented team full of hear and belief. The great Stephen Keshi and his overachieving team that won AFCON 2013, and nearly beat France. Yet you VE was here dissing him day and night.
Keshi motivated the team, but the foundation of the squad was weak and filled with junk which is why players got comfortable and why we collapsed when we lost one key player.

We failed to even qualify for afcon to defend it for a reason.

You cannot build long term success on a foundation of corruption.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Tbite »

I was about to kpom the post but have you forgotten how much determination players like Nsofor had?

Those bird killers!

all the gra gra never made their singlet look like agbada
all their hustle never made their efforts look like nada
formed like fine wine, but their level stayed on the water
now you finna tell me that we lackin in spirit?
Like we inna bottle shop, Better drop that lil bit

Truthfully it's all the points that you broke apart
when our quality broke apart, we hustled to look the part
when we had players we just watched the mark
and when we really marched, the coach would fumble the task
like play like play, our players were played off the park

Sometimes you get lucky and you miss a lil bit
If you wanna a massacre then all you need is a little bit
A lil' bit of hustle, a lil' bit of fine.
But if you wanna shine, the parts will have to fit.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by highbury »

Every foreign coach that comes to Nigeria has to be led by a Nigerian coach. The only time I will tolerate a foreign coach is if they are part of the support staff.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by gochino »

EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:36 am It's Deja vu all over again. I really have been around here for so long that history seems to be constantly repeating itself. Where things happen so fast that it seems that nothing happenned.

VE, once upon a time here on CE, not too long ago. We used to make fun of the so called "GRA GRA TEAMS", the teams that depended on effort ,tireless running and sheer will. Remember police football too? Teams like Japan,USA, Equador etc got no respect around here

Well , it seems like these gra gra teams lucked out and found a little bit of skill to make them relevant. Who would've thunk it? :shock:

So, it seems to like you're asking us to add some gra gra and tireless running to the wingplay we've been developing over the past 50yrs.

You know what? You're absolutely gaddem right! It has taken us this long to realize that we don't have what it takes to dribble everybody and win easily. We simply have to Outlook teams. That's all!
So Japan is a gragra team in your football eyes?? Japan is a very technical team who know how to use the ball wisely, look how they changed their strategy against Germany in the second half and dominated the germans.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by gochino »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 3:02 am My point is about African players thinking they can get the job done without putting in maximum effort.

Does the US ever approach games like this ?

There is plenty of data to support this, I dont need to see the rest of the WC.

I agree though that Ghana are kind of an exception. They have never had the greatest teams but they all work as a unit and are very determined.

Dede Ayew especially, although his brother is absolutely useless.
Are you talking of the same Ghana we watched against Portugal? How can you be 3 :1 down, score a goal and all you can think of is doing the Ronaldo celebration instead of taking the ball to the middleline? Sorry that was dumb and showed lack of determination.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by gochino »

vancity eagle wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:19 pm Watching this world cup and reflecting on past ones, its become painfully obvious to me what the problem with SE and AFrican teams in general is, and its not what most people think, though I have seen some highlight this before.

It's not the players quality, absolutely not.

SE have the players to make a quarterfinal run, make no mistake about it. So do teams like Senegal, Morocco, even Ghana.

I dont ever want to hear that our players are not good enough. There is a problem with our players, but it isn't that they "aren't good enough"

It also IS NOT the coaching. I am not saying that the coaching cannot improve, because it can, but that is not the MAIN PROBLEM with SE and African teams in general.

The problem is rather a simple one, but it may be a hard one to fix because of what may be the "AFrican mentality"

THE PROBLEM IS THAT AFRICAN PLAYERS ARE LAZY AND LACK DETERMINATION.

YES IVE SAID IT THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH AFRICAN TEAMS AND THAT IS WHAT WILL KEEP HOLDING US BACK.

Just look at how sheer determination elevated Japan over Germany. Was it players or coaching ? No it wasn't, it was sheer determination.

Look at how sheer determination made Holland look like amateurs against the Ecuadorian team today.

Look at the sheer determination of Saudi to play to the end and deny the Argentines.

Look at the sheer determination of the Koreans as they hassled the Uruguayans non stop.

Look at the sheer determination of the US against England. (I am still at halftime but you can see that determination is the difference between these 2 teams)

Look at the sheer determination of Iran who lost their opening match 6-2 to come back and win against Wales.

IT IS ABOUT WHO WANTS IT MORE, AND AFRICANS ARE HAPPY TO JUST GO THROUGH THE MOTIONS. PURE LAZINESS AND BIGMANISM.

We think we have arrived when we haven't.

See how pure laziness and lack of determination cost Senegal against Holland, as players were ball watching and Mendy was rooted to his goal. See how pure laziness from Senegal allowed Qatar to score a goal they should not have scored. The determination from Qatar today, had they half the quality of Senegal, they would have won the match. Who remembers how Senegal in 2018 again were ball watching as they allowed Colombia to score a header. Who remembers how in 2014 Ivory Coast allowed the same Colombia to score on them from a corner. It was a tiny player who got it. Disgraceful.

Our 4-0 loss to Portugal the other day was pure lack of will to run and fight on the pitch. Our loss to Argentina in 2018 again pure lack of will to fight for every minute.

Africans are always standing around losing the people they are supposed to mark, they switch off they dont press, they lack the fight.

I put it to you all here today, that this is the main thing holding AFrican football back, its lack of determination and fight for an entire match.

Why do you think the Asian teams are doing better than us ?

Do they have better players ? NO

Do they have better coaches ? Probably yes slightly, but its not about coaching really

Do they fight harder for a full 90 plus minutes ? YES.


People may not want to hear this but it is the absolute truth.

If we look back to when we won AFCON with Keshi, it came down to that match with CIV, and the reason we won was not because we had better players, not even better tactics or coaching. THE PLAYERS WANTED IT MORE, plain and simple.

We need to only call players who will die on the pitch. Primadonnas and lazy players need to be dumped big time.
Good points! This makes Rohr's statement " We are here to learn from better players " even more stupid.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by fabio »

vancity eagle wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:19 pm THE PROBLEM IS THAT AFRICAN PLAYERS ARE LAZY AND LACK DETERMINATION.

YES IVE SAID IT THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH AFRICAN TEAMS AND THAT IS WHAT WILL KEEP HOLDING US BACK.
YOU ARE LAZY AND LACK DETERMINATION.

YOU ARE HOLDING US BACK. With your generalisation and always talking down on AFRICANS.

Seems you have a superiority or know-it-all complex.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by fabio »

gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:37 am Good points! This makes Rohr's statement " We are here to learn from better players " even more stupid.
Keshi went to the WC to COMPETE.

Rohr went to the WC to LEARN... A for APPLE, B for BALL, C for CUP.

Someone here wished Keshi death and heaped praises on Rohr.

Self hate is a problem.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Bigpokey24 »

fabio wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:55 am
gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:37 am Good points! This makes Rohr's statement " We are here to learn from better players " even more stupid.
Keshi went to the WC to COMPETE.

Rohr went to the WC to LEARN... A for APPLE, B for BALL, C for CUP.

Someone here wished Keshi death and heaped praises on Rohr.

Self hate is a problem.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by highbury »

fabio wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:53 am
vancity eagle wrote: Fri Nov 25, 2022 11:19 pm THE PROBLEM IS THAT AFRICAN PLAYERS ARE LAZY AND LACK DETERMINATION.

YES IVE SAID IT THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH AFRICAN TEAMS AND THAT IS WHAT WILL KEEP HOLDING US BACK.
YOU ARE LAZY AND LACK DETERMINATION.

YOU ARE HOLDING US BACK. With your generalisation and always talking down on AFRICANS.

Seems you have a superiority or know-it-all complex.
There is no doubt he has little confidence in anything black. He also thinks he knows it all when infact knows very little. He is the typical Uncle Ruckus type person
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Post by highbury »

In addendum, no serious person here in CE takes what Vancity says seriously. His reputation precedes him
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Dammy »

Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:37 am
Orion wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:44 am
Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:58 am VE
Halleluyah!!! You finally, see the light. Now you understand when we point out that BS about playing in BIG 5 league was exactly that -- BS. In African player cases, I have noted, tgat playing in a Big 5 league does not make one better than a guy playing in the Middle East or other leagues because of economic dictates.
But getting into those clubs and staying there surely shows some level of professionalism and work ethic, on top of whatever natural skill the player has. Those clubs are businesses. If you're lazy, you don't survive.

This problem is more complex than people are making out. People are looking for simple answers, but there are no simple answers. First, you need to start with talented players. Senegal won the AFCON because they're more talented than Nigeria right now.

And even if you talk of local players. Didn't our local guys get tossed out of the CHAN qualifiers recently? Even on that front, they're failing against African-based opposition.
Sure.... But the point is that the goal of many African players is not essentially to get to those clubs but to earn a good pay day. If that big payday is in Saudi Arabia, they will head to Saudi Arabia. These economic issues must be part of the equation. These players will take a move to Saudi Arabia over one to La Liga if the compensation in Saudi Arabia is more. This is what I note is important in these cases. Another issue missing is also that some footballers may consider the local language before making a decision if the pay from those options are similar. One thing we must understand is that football is not different from a labor location decision that any other person would make coming from Nigeria. This is nothing but an employment decision -- forget what this or that fan may think or hope for.
I disagree with your comments. If you have played football before, you will know that iron sharpens iron. You can only get better by playing against the best players in the best leagues and that is why when we get to the business end of the WC, the teams with players in the top leagues will be left standing.
The legend, Samuel Etoo once said that if you prioritise making money in football, you will not get far in the career. A player who places financial rewards ahead of sporting challenges will make money but the career will suffer for it, that's why the wise one always find a balance. They play at their best years in Europe and then wind down in many "retirement" leagues I.e. MLS, China, Saudi Arabia, Japan etc.
The cases of Ezekiel Imoh and Raheem Lawal are good examples. They got offers in the Bundesliga and La Liga respectively and chose to go to Saudi Arabia and Turkey for more money and we all witnessed how their careers petered out.
Shock results have always been happening in the WC, in 1982, Algeria beat West Germany but it was the Germans who got to the final ditto Cameroon and Argentina in 1990.
The issues confronting African teams at the WC level is complex and not as simple as VE puts it.
There are issues with discipline, African players, especially the big ones, are not as disciplined with their national teams as they are with their European clubs. They frequently break camp rules and treat national team engagements like holidays. In 2003, I witnessed the difference between world champions, Brazil and the Super Eagles at the Nicon hotel in Abuja where both teams were lodged. The Brazilians didn't leave their rooms except for training and food. The SE were in the lobby entertaining all manners of people especially women. I even saw Chris Obodo at Sheraton hotel at midnight before the match. The FAs also do not give the coaches a free hand just like we saw in Morocco, where the coach was sacked in order to bring Ziyech and Mazraoui back into the team. What message does that send out?
Then there's the issue of coaches. The best coaches are unaffordable to most African countries. The few that can afford them like South Africa paying Carlos Pereira almost $300,000 per month do not have the top players to compliment the efforts of the team. I believe if teams like Nigeria, Cameroon, Algeria or even Senegal had good coaches during their golden generation they would have achieved more. The current coach of Senegal is holding the team back IMO. Like Rohr said at the 2018 WC, "we are here to learn". That sums up most of the foreign coaches that come to Africa.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Enugu II »

Dammy wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:20 pm
Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:37 am
Orion wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 1:44 am
Enugu II wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 12:58 am VE
Halleluyah!!! You finally, see the light. Now you understand when we point out that BS about playing in BIG 5 league was exactly that -- BS. In African player cases, I have noted, tgat playing in a Big 5 league does not make one better than a guy playing in the Middle East or other leagues because of economic dictates.
But getting into those clubs and staying there surely shows some level of professionalism and work ethic, on top of whatever natural skill the player has. Those clubs are businesses. If you're lazy, you don't survive.

This problem is more complex than people are making out. People are looking for simple answers, but there are no simple answers. First, you need to start with talented players. Senegal won the AFCON because they're more talented than Nigeria right now.

And even if you talk of local players. Didn't our local guys get tossed out of the CHAN qualifiers recently? Even on that front, they're failing against African-based opposition.
Sure.... But the point is that the goal of many African players is not essentially to get to those clubs but to earn a good pay day. If that big payday is in Saudi Arabia, they will head to Saudi Arabia. These economic issues must be part of the equation. These players will take a move to Saudi Arabia over one to La Liga if the compensation in Saudi Arabia is more. This is what I note is important in these cases. Another issue missing is also that some footballers may consider the local language before making a decision if the pay from those options are similar. One thing we must understand is that football is not different from a labor location decision that any other person would make coming from Nigeria. This is nothing but an employment decision -- forget what this or that fan may think or hope for.
I disagree with your comments. If you have played football before, you will know that iron sharpens iron. You can only get better by playing against the best players in the best leagues and that is why when we get to the business end of the WC, the teams with players in the top leagues will be left standing.
The legend, Samuel Etoo once said that if you prioritise making money in football, you will not get far in the career. A player who places financial rewards ahead of sporting challenges will make money but the career will suffer for it, that's why the wise one always find a balance. They play at their best years in Europe and then wind down in many "retirement" leagues I.e. MLS, China, Saudi Arabia, Japan etc.
The cases of Ezekiel Imoh and Raheem Lawal are good examples. They got offers in the Bundesliga and La Liga respectively and chose to go to Saudi Arabia and Turkey for more money and we all witnessed how their careers petered out.
Shock results have always been happening in the WC, in 1982, Algeria beat West Germany but it was the Germans who got to the final ditto Cameroon and Argentina in 1990.
The issues confronting African teams at the WC level is complex and not as simple as VE puts it.
There are issues with discipline, African players, especially the big ones, are not as disciplined with their national teams as they are with their European clubs. They frequently break camp rules and treat national team engagements like holidays. In 2003, I witnessed the difference between world champions, Brazil and the Super Eagles at the Nicon hotel in Abuja where both teams were lodged. The Brazilians didn't leave their rooms except for training and food. The SE were in the lobby entertaining all manners of people especially women. I even saw Chris Obodo at Sheraton hotel at midnight before the match. The FAs also do not give the coaches a free hand just like we saw in Morocco, where the coach was sacked in order to bring Ziyech and Mazraoui back into the team. What message does that send out?
Then there's the issue of coaches. The best coaches are unaffordable to most African countries. The few that can afford them like South Africa paying Carlos Pereira almost $300,000 per month do not have the top players to compliment the efforts of the team. I believe if teams like Nigeria, Cameroon, Algeria or even Senegal had good coaches during their golden generation they would have achieved more. The current coach of Senegal is holding the team back IMO. Like Rohr said at the 2018 WC, "we are here to learn". That sums up most of the foreign coaches that come to Africa.
Dammy

First, many issues are complex and not the least this issue. As long as it impacts humans, complexity is necessarily a part of decision making.

Now, on the issue of where footballers from Africa go to. I am glad that you point to two examples of choices that signify the point that I raised -- one based on need and not necessarily football development. Many Africans make that choice and it is based on their human rationality. That they may end up not improving themselves is entirely besides the point. The point is simply that Africa's best do not always select a destination club based on the performance of the club but based on remuneration outcome for the baller.

Notably, we saw a few years ago Brazil select an NT player who was playing in the Middle East if you recall. I hope you do.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by deanotito »

This is a wrong take. It’s the kind of take that is popular after the first round of matches.

I’ve watched many many world cups. You will always find determined countries. They change from tournament to tournament. BUT they get figured out as the tournament goes on, get eliminated after a tension-soaked encounter with a better-coached and better quality team, and the next time a World Cup comes around, last tournament’s “determined” team would lose 3 consecutive games in the first round.

It is coaching and player quality that stand out consistently. Thats what guarantees deep runs in such tournaments. Statistically, you’re bound to see a minnow win some games they shouldn’t. But over time, those statistical improbabilities disappear.

If you do a proper study of say the last 20 world cups, you will find that the biggest factor underlying success is the country’s FIFA ranking (or any other proxy of team quality), and not “determination”.

And this is no different from any other sphere of life to be honest. It’s why you want your children to go to the best schools, for instance
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by amafolas »

fabio wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:55 am
gochino wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 10:37 am Good points! This makes Rohr's statement " We are here to learn from better players " even more stupid.
Keshi went to the WC to COMPETE.

Rohr went to the WC to LEARN... A for APPLE, B for BALL, C for CUP.

Someone here wished Keshi death and heaped praises on Rohr.

Self hate is a problem.
my ideal wishlist next coach for naija is a fusion of Rohr's organization + Keshi's proud Naija-ness & self belief.
Passeiro, so far, appears to be neither.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by wanaj0 »

vancity eagle wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 5:17 am
amafolas wrote: Sat Nov 26, 2022 4:20 am all gra gra without organization will earn you nada.
all gra gra without being very conditioned will lead to you tiring late, and conceding late goals

heart and determination can make up for gra gra. Wanna know who pumped an undertalented team full of hear and belief. The great Stephen Keshi and his overachieving team that won AFCON 2013, and nearly beat France. Yet you VE was here dissing him day and night.
Keshi motivated the team, but the foundation of the squad was weak and filled with junk which is why players got comfortable and why we collapsed when we lost one key player.

We failed to even qualify for afcon to defend it for a reason.

You cannot build long term success on a foundation of corruption.
Weak foundation with Junk players that delivered the AFCON after not qualifying for the previous AFCON.

After that, saboteurs like you basically did everything for the team to fail.

Well, in Rohr you had the best squad and the strongest foundation and we saw the result. :clap:

People like you don't recognize and appreciate the hardwork by some coaches. Same way you don't appreciate the contribution of some players.

Sunday Mbah the elephant slayer has an AFCON trophy and AFCON goal to his credit.

Keshi has an AFCON trophy to show for his tenure as coach of the SE.

Let that continue to make you sad forever!
“We do not have natural disasters in Nigeria, the only disaster we have is human beings,”
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Eaglezbeak
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Eaglezbeak »

The problem with Nigeria football as a whole is that you expect an amateur government run FA to be able to instil some kind of professional conduct into a group of players they didn’t even raise,no successful Nigerian footballer in the modern era improved as a footballer by staying in Nigeria.
There’s not exactly a foundation for discipline to flourish a countries football is usually reflected by its culture and I can tell you the qualities that you are looking for are absent in Nigerian culture.
Late and non payment of staff, no academy no football specific stadia and relying on a failed government are not a blueprint to success.speaking of Japan just look at the their cultural ethics and you’ll understand.
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Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS

Post by Robotnik »

It doesn't matter what it is. Like I have always said, if your players cannot trap ball there is only so far the team can go.. We do not have players with close first touch and good ball control.

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