On Peseiro...

Where Eagles dare! Discuss Nigerian related football (soccer) topics here.

Moderators: Moderator Team, phpBB2 - Administrators

Post Reply
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

I have read some Op Eds here, especially from EII on clearing out players.

While I understand the frustration with the performance of several of our players, we need to put these in proper perspective.

Perhaps folks should watch the commitment and drive of a Calvin Bassey at Ajax for instance or Akpoguma before you talk about clearing out players. To give but one example...

It comes down on the coach.

If you have a truly professional coach, he will set proper standards and will refuse to compromise on those standards.
He will force everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY to step up their game...

Look at the recent incident with Antonio Conte at Spurs. Simply refused to accept mediocrity.



We do not have a professional manager. We simply have someone who needs and wants to maintain a job. Which is what leads him to compromises.

If you accept mediocrity from the NFF, then you accept an Ahmed Musa in your team.
You accept a quota on HB players..
The list goes on and on and on...

The result is you have a mediocre team...because the players see everything!
A manager who accepts mediocrity anywhere around his team enables mediocre performances on the pitch...

It comes down on the manager.

But we should never forget the 'original sin', which is the fact of a thoroughly unprofessional NFF.
The one that cannibalizes coaches without discrimination- black, white, foreign, local, man, woman..

So we have these people choose managers without a clue of what the overall vision of the game in Nigeria is and the NT in particular....

"I talked the Mourinho" then becomes the basis for choosing a manager.
A known and convicted fraudster then becomes a standard for selecting a coach...
The list is endless.

Nigeria is not serious.
The people at home no longer take the team or the NFF serious.
Perhaps its time for folks on CE to adjust to this fact...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
vancity eagle
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 20019
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by vancity eagle »

The truth is that the team isn't playing as bad as people think, but it also isn't great either.

Nigeria has always struggled in qualifying no matter the coach.

A 1-0 away victory is the expected result, and of course we would struggle with GB sitting back.

The game we lost we dominated, simular to the CAR match with Rohr.

The problem with Peseiro is he continues with the 442 using the wrong players to execute it, and it is shocking that he hasn't realized a number of things at this stage.

Also it is a problem that he appears to be a yes man for the NFF. We will not move forward with this type of situation.

We need a coach who will put his foot down and not accept any nonsense from the NFF or our players.

Peseiro also seems to be a very lazy coach, because proper scouting would have solved many of these problems.
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:07 pm The truth is that the team isn't playing as bad as people think, but it also isn't great either.

Nigeria has always struggled in qualifying no matter the coach.

A 1-0 away victory is the expected result, and of course we would struggle with GB sitting back.

The game we lost we dominated, simular to the CAR match with Rohr.

The problem with Peseiro is he continues with the 442 using the wrong players to execute it, and it is shocking that he hasn't realized a number of things at this stage.

Also it is a problem that he appears to be a yes man for the NFF. We will not move forward with this type of situation.

We need a coach who will put his foot down and not accept any nonsense from the NFF or our players.

Peseiro also seems to be a very lazy coach, because proper scouting would have solved many of these problems.


The highlighted portion is the personification of mediocrity...

As the say in Naija- 'they tried'...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
User avatar
1naija
Flying Eagle
Flying Eagle
Posts: 57462
Joined: Sat Jan 03, 2004 5:04 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by 1naija »

What is this?
The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not be in want.
vancity eagle
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 20019
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by vancity eagle »

Txj

The team dominated Guinea Bissau in both matches.

I mean totally dominated. Even with a poor formation and player selection.

Anyone trying to say otherwise is just lying.

If Osimehn could stay onside, who knows how many goals we could have scored.

Nigeria has ALWAYS struggled against weaker opposition who sit back. I mean always. So what is so exceptionally poor about this team that is warranting such outrage ? I fail to see it.

We could have easily won that first match if for a little fortune and it will be business as usual.

These games weren't even anywhere near as bad as that Cape Verde match where we were outplayed at home.
vancity eagle
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 20019
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by vancity eagle »

I just want to ask if the following is the coaches fault.

I dont even like Peseiro but seriously.

Did the coach tell Osimehn to not stay onside ? Did Egu also do the same thing against Ghana ?

Did the coach tell Samu to kill birds with all his errant shooting ?

Did the coach tell Akpoguma and Bassey to fall asleep and let that player waltz in on our goal. That was a disgraceful act.

Don't mistake what I am saying. The coach is a problem for sure, but he is being scapegoated. It isn't all on him, there are plenty of blame.
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:25 pm Txj

The team dominated Guinea Bissau in both matches.

I mean totally dominated. Even with a poor formation and player selection.

Anyone trying to say otherwise is just lying.

If Osimehn could stay onside, who knows how many goals we could have scored.

Nigeria has ALWAYS struggled against weaker opposition who sit back. I mean always. So what is so exceptionally poor about this team that is warranting such outrage ? I fail to see it.

We could have easily won that first match if for a little fortune and it will be business as usual.

These games weren't even anywhere near as bad as that Cape Verde match where we were outplayed at home.


The threshold for what makes the SE good or bad is not dominating GB.

The threshold is the overall quality of the team game which remains mediocre, and with no clear signs of progression.

That is how you assess a team.

There is no such thing as a 'not bad' team.

It is either Good
Developing- of which there would be clear signs of such
or
Bad
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
User avatar
Bigpokey24
Super Eagle
Super Eagle
Posts: 110359
Joined: Tue Dec 23, 2003 4:58 pm
Location: Earth
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by Bigpokey24 »

1naija wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:23 pmWhat is this?
here is your problem, because you have history with txj, you choose to derail the thread. I actually agree with txj here . once in a while for the good of the SE lay your sword
SuperEagles

© Bigpokey24, most loved on CE
My post are with no warranties and confers zero rights. Get out your feelings
It is not authorized by CyberEagles. You assume all risk for your use.
All rights aren't reserved
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:34 pm I just want to ask if the following is the coaches fault.

I dont even like Peseiro but seriously.

Did the coach tell Osimehn to not stay onside ? Did Egu also do the same thing against Ghana ?

Did the coach tell Samu to kill birds with all his errant shooting ?

Did the coach tell Akpoguma and Bassey to fall asleep and let that player waltz in on our goal. That was a disgraceful act.

Don't mistake what I am saying. The coach is a problem for sure, but he is being scapegoated. It isn't all on him, there are plenty of blame.


A professional coach will not harbor and accept mediocrity. Its that simple...
Any other thing is besides the point...

You look at the way the team played, and save for better organization in MF from selecting in-form players, the performance in the final third was the exact same in both legs...

A serious manager cannot harbor and fertilize mediocrity...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
vancity eagle
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 20019
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by vancity eagle »

Txj my point is this

This team is not really any worse than any of our past teams, in fact it is better in many aspects.

No SE team, I repeat no SE team was any better IN QUALIFYING matches.

Maybe Rohrs when he first started.

You cannot compare tournament matches to qualifying matches, you have to compare like for like.

Even Keshi who many hail. His qualifying teams were WORSE than this.

Amodus teams played much worse in qualifying.

Rohrs later stage qualifying matches were also worse.

Egus games against Ghana were not any better.
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:34 pm I just want to ask if the following is the coaches fault.

I dont even like Peseiro but seriously.

Did the coach tell Osimehn to not stay onside ? Did Egu also do the same thing against Ghana ?

Did the coach tell Samu to kill birds with all his errant shooting ?

Did the coach tell Akpoguma and Bassey to fall asleep and let that player waltz in on our goal. That was a disgraceful act.

Don't mistake what I am saying. The coach is a problem for sure, but he is being scapegoated. It isn't all on him, there are plenty of blame.


On Osimhen: some of the offsides was clearly on him. But there is a larger issue of how we play in MF and the speed of our passing that is clearly rendering him nowhere near his level.

Its not so much about his offsides. Its the inability of the manager to structure the attacking game to suit his well proven abilities.

Which brings me to Samu.

Yes there are individual failures on his part, but the greater failure is our game in the wide areas.
Its still not developing nearly one year later.
Its still mostly dependent on the 1v1 dribble, which makes it easier to double up on...

The 3rd man runs thru from MF is uncoordinated
The counterattacking game is without clear structure

The transition defending is woeful
Even in the 2nd game, GB did break thru at least twice with the blind side run that was totally unaccounted for...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
User avatar
Synopsis
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1813
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:57 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by Synopsis »

Smh we should set up like Napoli does. They play a 4-3-3…

But we would need a Lobotka (an intelligent DM that’s also a great passer), a strong, high energy box to box CM like Anguissa (maybe Onyedika?), and an attacking central midfielder with good passing skills (Iwobi).

..Iwobi…Onyedika..
……..Onyeka?…….
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:56 pm Txj my point is this

This team is not really any worse than any of our past teams, in fact it is better in many aspects.

No SE team, I repeat no SE team was any better IN QUALIFYING matches.

Maybe Rohrs when he first started.

You cannot compare tournament matches to qualifying matches, you have to compare like for like.

Even Keshi who many hail. His qualifying teams were WORSE than this.

Amodus teams played much worse in qualifying.

Rohrs later stage qualifying matches were also worse.

Egus games against Ghana were not any better.




Which is the definition of mediocrity...

Not many teams achieve top performances in qualifying games, but you expect to see clear signs of organization and functionality. We have neither.

Comparing this to prior mediocre teams is simply not good enough...
And I don't know why you bring Keshi into it. The man went on to win the tournament!
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
vancity eagle
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 20019
Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by vancity eagle »

txj wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:38 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:56 pm Txj my point is this

This team is not really any worse than any of our past teams, in fact it is better in many aspects.

No SE team, I repeat no SE team was any better IN QUALIFYING matches.

Maybe Rohrs when he first started.

You cannot compare tournament matches to qualifying matches, you have to compare like for like.

Even Keshi who many hail. His qualifying teams were WORSE than this.

Amodus teams played much worse in qualifying.

Rohrs later stage qualifying matches were also worse.

Egus games against Ghana were not any better.




Which is the definition of mediocrity...

Not many teams achieve top performances in qualifying games, but you expect to see clear signs of organization and functionality. We have neither.

Comparing this to prior mediocre teams is simply not good enough...
And I don't know why you bring Keshi into it. The man went on to win the tournament!
Keshi won a tournament, but his teams WERE WORSE IN QUALIFYING than our current team.

Firing coaches left and right will not help us. Have we not learned ?

I can only pray that Peseiro has learned something from these 2 matches.
User avatar
txj
Eaglet
Eaglet
Posts: 37837
Joined: Mon Dec 22, 2003 11:35 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by txj »

vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:48 pm
txj wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:38 pm
vancity eagle wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 4:56 pm Txj my point is this

This team is not really any worse than any of our past teams, in fact it is better in many aspects.

No SE team, I repeat no SE team was any better IN QUALIFYING matches.

Maybe Rohrs when he first started.

You cannot compare tournament matches to qualifying matches, you have to compare like for like.

Even Keshi who many hail. His qualifying teams were WORSE than this.

Amodus teams played much worse in qualifying.

Rohrs later stage qualifying matches were also worse.

Egus games against Ghana were not any better.




Which is the definition of mediocrity...

Not many teams achieve top performances in qualifying games, but you expect to see clear signs of organization and functionality. We have neither.

Comparing this to prior mediocre teams is simply not good enough...
And I don't know why you bring Keshi into it. The man went on to win the tournament!
Keshi won a tournament, but his teams WERE WORSE IN QUALIFYING than our current team.

Firing coaches left and right will not help us. Have we not learned ?

I can only pray that Peseiro has learned something from these 2 matches.


Each team is different and the circumstances surrounding each is also different. Its rather pointless comparing the teams, especially as a way of providing excuse for a mediocre performance.

Focus on the team in front of you...
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
olu
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3820
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:38 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by olu »

Peseiro needs more time. We also need to be patient with the likes of Bassey and Akpoguma, there are still valuable SE players.

Peseiro must not be married to 4-4-2 or that could be his downfall. 4-4-2 works best when you have real two-way midfielders and if one of the two forwards is committed to dropping deep to play as a defacto AM. With the midfielders we have at our disposal, I think we are better off a formation with 3 midfielders (4-2-1-3, 3-5-2, or 4-3-3) where the defensive and creative load in midfield is shared a bit more. That being said there are situations in which we can play 4-4-2 successfully.
txj wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:50 pm I have read some Op Eds here, especially from EII on clearing out players.

While I understand the frustration with the performance of several of our players, we need to put these in proper perspective.

Perhaps folks should watch the commitment and drive of a Calvin Bassey at Ajax for instance or Akpoguma before you talk about clearing out players. To give but one example...

It comes down on the coach.

If you have a truly professional coach, he will set proper standards and will refuse to compromise on those standards.
He will force everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY to step up their game...

Look at the recent incident with Antonio Conte at Spurs. Simply refused to accept mediocrity.



We do not have a professional manager. We simply have someone who needs and wants to maintain a job. Which is what leads him to compromises.

If you accept mediocrity from the NFF, then you accept an Ahmed Musa in your team.
You accept a quota on HB players..
The list goes on and on and on...

The result is you have a mediocre team...because the players see everything!
A manager who accepts mediocrity anywhere around his team enables mediocre performances on the pitch...

It comes down on the manager.

But we should never forget the 'original sin', which is the fact of a thoroughly unprofessional NFF.
The one that cannibalizes coaches without discrimination- black, white, foreign, local, man, woman..

So we have these people choose managers without a clue of what the overall vision of the game in Nigeria is and the NT in particular....

"I talked the Mourinho" then becomes the basis for choosing a manager.
A known and convicted fraudster then becomes a standard for selecting a coach...
The list is endless.

Nigeria is not serious.
The people at home no longer take the team or the NFF serious.
Perhaps its time for folks on CE to adjust to this fact...
User avatar
packerland
Egg
Egg
Posts: 8076
Joined: Thu Feb 05, 2004 3:05 am
Location: Wisconsin
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by packerland »

Synopsis wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:12 pm Smh we should set up like Napoli does. They play a 4-3-3…

But we would need a Lobotka (an intelligent DM that’s also a great passer), a strong, high energy box to box CM like Anguissa (maybe Onyedika?), and an attacking central midfielder with good passing skills (Iwobi).

..Iwobi…Onyedika..
……..Onyeka?…….
I like where you head is at but we don’t have those midfield players. One thing we have in abundance is a bunch of Chucky Lozanos.
"Yea right, we await the beatings the Aussie has for them. The Falcons are just another bad team at the women world cup".....fatpokey Tue Jul 25, 2023 4:34 .
User avatar
Synopsis
Egg
Egg
Posts: 1813
Joined: Wed Jun 10, 2015 6:57 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by Synopsis »

packerland wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 2:16 am
Synopsis wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 5:12 pm Smh we should set up like Napoli does. They play a 4-3-3…

But we would need a Lobotka (an intelligent DM that’s also a great passer), a strong, high energy box to box CM like Anguissa (maybe Onyedika?), and an attacking central midfielder with good passing skills (Iwobi).

..Iwobi…Onyedika..
……..Onyeka?…….
I like where you head is at but we don’t have those midfield players. One thing we have in abundance is a bunch of Chucky Lozanos.
Lol
olu
Egg
Egg
Posts: 3820
Joined: Tue Dec 30, 2003 9:38 pm
Re: On Peseiro...

Post by olu »

olu wrote: Wed Mar 29, 2023 12:55 am Peseiro needs more time. We also need to be patient with the likes of Bassey and Akpoguma. They are still valuable SE players.

Peseiro must not be married to 4-4-2 or that could be his downfall. 4-4-2 works best when you have real two-way midfielders and if one of the two forwards is committed to dropping deep to play as a defacto AM. With the midfielders we have at our disposal, I think we are better off a formation with 3 midfielders (4-2-1-3, 3-5-2, or 4-3-3) where the defensive and creative load in midfield is shared a bit more. That being said there are situations in which we can play 4-4-2 successfully.
txj wrote: Tue Mar 28, 2023 3:50 pm I have read some Op Eds here, especially from EII on clearing out players.

While I understand the frustration with the performance of several of our players, we need to put these in proper perspective.

Perhaps folks should watch the commitment and drive of a Calvin Bassey at Ajax for instance or Akpoguma before you talk about clearing out players. To give but one example...

It comes down on the coach.

If you have a truly professional coach, he will set proper standards and will refuse to compromise on those standards.
He will force everybody, and I mean EVERYBODY to step up their game...

Look at the recent incident with Antonio Conte at Spurs. Simply refused to accept mediocrity.



We do not have a professional manager. We simply have someone who needs and wants to maintain a job. Which is what leads him to compromises.

If you accept mediocrity from the NFF, then you accept an Ahmed Musa in your team.
You accept a quota on HB players..
The list goes on and on and on...

The result is you have a mediocre team...because the players see everything!
A manager who accepts mediocrity anywhere around his team enables mediocre performances on the pitch...

It comes down on the manager.

But we should never forget the 'original sin', which is the fact of a thoroughly unprofessional NFF.
The one that cannibalizes coaches without discrimination- black, white, foreign, local, man, woman..

So we have these people choose managers without a clue of what the overall vision of the game in Nigeria is and the NT in particular....

"I talked the Mourinho" then becomes the basis for choosing a manager.
A known and convicted fraudster then becomes a standard for selecting a coach...
The list is endless.

Nigeria is not serious.
The people at home no longer take the team or the NFF serious.
Perhaps its time for folks on CE to adjust to this fact...

Post Reply