ASHLEIGH PLUMPTRE

[Damunk]

What I liked most about her was the way she almost always found a teammate, no matter from what angle you passed her the ball.
I’d love to see their respective pass completion rates.

[mcal]

What I liked most about her was the way she almost always found a teammate, no matter from what angle you passed her the ball.
I’d love to see their respective pass completion rates.

...I wonder what the talk in English press could have been if that her strike had gone in? She seemed composed and determined to win contests.
Everyone played well until the pk nightmare.
Older and experienced players missed pk shootout (both Nigeria and US matches) Oparanozie and Rapinoe
Youthful and best players of the teams missed pk shootout (both Nigeria and US matches) Alozie and Smith
The irony of fate.

[Damunk]

What I liked most about her was the way she almost always found a teammate, no matter from what angle you passed her the ball.
I’d love to see their respective pass completion rates.

...I wonder what the talk in English press could have been if that her strike had gone in? She seemed composed and determined to win contests.
Everyone played well until the pk nightmare.
Older and experienced players missed pk shootout (both Nigeria and US matches) Oparanozie and Rapinoe
Youthful and best players of the teams missed pk shootout (both Nigeria and US matches) Alozie and Smith
The irony of fate.

Na so penalty dey do players.
Real lottery.

[wiseone]

I always find it odd when people refer to penalty shoot outs as “a lottery” and describe how unfair it is. Is it really that hard to expect a professional footballer to score an uncontested shot from 12 yards?

If a striker runs clean through on goal during normal time and misses from 12 yards, fans will criticise her for “missing a sitter” (even though defenders were trying to stop her from scoring and the GK was diving at her feet to stop the shot).

Yet when the same player blazes a penalty over the bar from 12 yards, we are sympathetic (even though no defenders are allowed to tackle her and the GK cannot advance towards her to to stop the shot).

We suddenly act as if a penalty is as hard as requiring the penalty taker to score from the halfway line.

Na so penalty dey do players.
Real lottery.

[jette1]

What I liked most about her was the way she almost always found a teammate, no matter from what angle you passed her the ball.
I’d love to see their respective pass completion rates.

...I wonder what the talk in English press could have been if that her strike had gone in? She seemed composed and determined to win contests.
Everyone played well until the pk nightmare.
Older and experienced players missed pk shootout (both Nigeria and US matches) Oparanozie and Rapinoe
Youthful and best players of the teams missed pk shootout (both Nigeria and US matches) Alozie and Smith
The irony of fate.

I don’t agree; oparanozie has always been a chronic penalty misser, had Randy known this she would not have been taking the first one especially coming from rusty bench sitting. Alozie was clearly a wrong choice as well considering her well known uncontrolled ball insertions

[Damunk]

I always find it odd when people refer to penalty shoot outs as “a lottery” and describe how unfair it is. Is it really that hard to expect a professional footballer to score an uncontested shot from 12 yards?

If a striker runs clean through on goal during normal time and misses from 12 yards, fans will criticise her for “missing a sitter” (even though defenders were trying to stop her from scoring and the GK was diving at her feet to stop the shot).

Yet when the same player blazes a penalty over the bar from 12 yards, we are sympathetic (even though no defenders are allowed to tackle her and the GK cannot advance towards her to to stop the shot).

We suddenly act as if a penalty is as hard as requiring the penalty taker to score from the halfway line.

Na so penalty dey do players.
Real lottery.

I find it odd that you think scoring a penalty is simply a matter of shooting an uncontested shot into a net from 12 yards.
It seems you have no regard for the role of psychology in the matter.
What do you think all the mind games before a penalty kick are about?

If it was that easy, why do you think most of the world’s top star players have missed crucial penalties when the stakes were really high?
And in open play, why do you think many top players miss the net when they “have too long to think about it”, as against when they make their decisions instinctively?

You don’t think there’s more to it than just kicking a ball into a net, “uncontested”? Penalties are not “unfair”, but to an extent it levels the playing field much more than it ever could over 90 minutes when one team is so obviously better than the other, yet have failed to gain a goal advantage. Maybe that’s what they mean by it being “unfair”. But that’s the beauty of the game -the joys and the pain of “unfair” outcomes.

You sound like my grandma who really can’t understand what all the fuss is about.
“Sebi k’on ti gba bollu s’inu’le ni?” (Sebi na to nack ball insai net?)

[theDunamis]

I always find it odd when people refer to penalty shoot outs as “a lottery” and describe how unfair it is. Is it really that hard to expect a professional footballer to score an uncontested shot from 12 yards?

If a striker runs clean through on goal during normal time and misses from 12 yards, fans will criticise her for “missing a sitter” (even though defenders were trying to stop her from scoring and the GK was diving at her feet to stop the shot).

Yet when the same player blazes a penalty over the bar from 12 yards, we are sympathetic (even though no defenders are allowed to tackle her and the GK cannot advance towards her to to stop the shot).

We suddenly act as if a penalty is as hard as requiring the penalty taker to score from the halfway line.

Na so penalty dey do players.
Real lottery.

I find it odd that you think scoring a penalty is simply a matter of shooting an uncontested shot into a net from 12 yards.
It seems you have no regard for the role of psychology in the matter.
What do you think all the mind games before a penalty kick are about?

If it was that easy, why do you think most of the world’s top star players have missed crucial penalties when the stakes were really high?
And in open play, why do you think many top players miss the net when they “have too long to think about it”, as against when they make their decisions instinctively?

You don’t think there’s more to it than just kicking a ball into a net, “uncontested”? Penalties are not “unfair”, but to an extent it levels the playing field much more than it ever could over 90 minutes when one team is so obviously better than the other, yet have failed to gain a goal advantage. Maybe that’s what they mean by it being “unfair”. But that’s the beauty of the game -the joys and the pain of “unfair” outcomes.

You sound like my grandma who really can’t understand what all the fuss is about.
“Sebi k’on ti gba bollu s’inu’le ni?” (Sebi na to nack ball insai net?)

I am totally confused by his post. So, if penalties are the certainties he is saying they should be, why on earth are they used -- and successfully so -- as tiebreakers? A very illogical post that does not attempt to comport with observed and known reality.

[GG of G]

Most people with that mentality about penalties have never stepped up to a penalty on a full-size pitch with the goal post in view and a proper goalkeeper. The football goalpost is not as wide nor as high as most spectators imagine and trust me - 12 yards is quite a way away. As I keep pounding into the ears of a friend of mine - Penalities are hard!!!

[kendo]

[wiseone]

A penalty is indeed a matter of taking an uncontested shot from 12 yards away. Missed penalties are actually statistically rare.

There is a reason why about 70-75% of Premier League penalties are scored, whereas we do not see 70% of 12 yard shots from open play scored: because penalties are easier to score than scoring from open play when a load of defenders are in the way and the GK can come charging out at the shooter.

I am also well aware of the "mind games" before penalties are taken. That type of "mental disintegration" (credit Steve Waugh) also takes place during open play. Or do you think defenders and GKs ask strikers "how are you doing old chap?" and wrap presents for their opponent's wife and kids while marking him at corners and crosses?

I have also heard “he had too much time to think about it”. It is just another in a long line of boolsheet cliches that moronic commentators parrot on live TV. If I give a cold eyed finisher like Lewandowski 2 seconds before he takes a shot, the ball will be in the back of the net before I blink. If I use those 2 seconds to close him down, I have a much better chance of stopping him from scoring. There is a reason why "don't give him time" is one of the most common shouts during a football match (even down to mates having a kickabout on a Sunday morning).

A penalty is a wonderful (and the easiest) opportunity to score a goal in football . A designated penalty taker like Harry Kane practices about 30 penalties after every training session. He has already practised the penalty you seem him take during a Premier League match about 150 times in the week preceding the match.

This is because Kane understands that taking a penalty is as much a part of the game as heading the ball or playing a pass to the winger.

Let us stop acting like scoring a penalty is some massive insurmountable hurdle for a trained professional footballer.

I find it odd that you think scoring a penalty is simply a matter of shooting an uncontested shot into a net from 12 yards.
It seems you have no regard for the role of psychology in the matter.
What do you think all the mind games before a penalty kick are about?

If it was that easy, why do you think most of the world’s top star players have missed crucial penalties when the stakes were really high?
And in open play, why do you think many top players miss the net when they “have too long to think about it”, as against when they make their decisions instinctively?

You don’t think there’s more to it than just kicking a ball into a net, “uncontested”? Penalties are not “unfair”, but to an extent it levels the playing field much more than it ever could over 90 minutes when one team is so obviously better than the other, yet have failed to gain a goal advantage. Maybe that’s what they mean by it being “unfair”. But that’s the beauty of the game -the joys and the pain of “unfair” outcomes.

You sound like my grandma who really can’t understand what all the fuss is about.
“Sebi k’on ti gba bollu s’inu’le ni?” (Sebi na to nack ball insai net?)

[mate]

I've been watching this WWC. Staying up late.

I can't tell you how much I enjoyed the Super Falcons. So many good personalities and solid football. I really wish you had beaten England...what a path and story that would have been!

I also very much enjoy this player and her story. I looked at so many videos. She seems genuine.

[Bigpokey24]

what about the other African teams like Zambia and Morocco? They went to the world-cup with basket

[Enugu II]

I always find it odd when people refer to penalty shoot outs as “a lottery” and describe how unfair it is. Is it really that hard to expect a professional footballer to score an uncontested shot from 12 yards?

If a striker runs clean through on goal during normal time and misses from 12 yards, fans will criticise her for “missing a sitter” (even though defenders were trying to stop her from scoring and the GK was diving at her feet to stop the shot).

Yet when the same player blazes a penalty over the bar from 12 yards, we are sympathetic (even though no defenders are allowed to tackle her and the GK cannot advance towards her to to stop the shot).

We suddenly act as if a penalty is as hard as requiring the penalty taker to score from the halfway line.

Na so penalty dey do players.
Real lottery.

Bros,

Really, but you saw perhaps the greatest soccer player, Lionel Messi, miss one. Now what do you think if we changed your statement in terms of Messi and state:

Is it really that hard to expect Lionel Messi to score an uncontested short from 12 yards? Please explain why he did not score from that distance, in a penalty shoot out, when the opportunity presented?

Please read: https://www.bleacherreport.com/articles ... gio-aguero

[wiseone]

Yes, Messi missed a penalty. What is your point? Every single penalty taker (not called Matt Le Tissier) has failed to convert a spot kick? So what?! Messi has also missed free kicks and 1 v 1s with the GK.

Messi has scored nearly 80% of the penalties he has taken in his career. Yet strangely he has not scored 80% of the 12 yard shots he has taken from open play. Why is that?

Because he finds it much easier to score an uncontested penalty from 12 yards than he does to score a 12 yard shot from open play when defenders are trying to block the shot.

It is easier to score a penalty than it is to score from open play. It would be madness to suggest otherwise.

Bros,

Really, but you saw perhaps the greatest soccer player, Lionel Messi, miss one. Now what do you think if we changed your statement in terms of Messi and state:

Is it really that hard to expect Lionel Messi to score an uncontested short from 12 yards? Please explain why he did not score from that distance, in a penalty shoot out, when the opportunity presented?

Please read: https://www.bleacherreport.com/articles ... gio-aguero

[Damunk]

Wiseone, I think you have successfully created a false argument, and we all seem to have fallen for it!
Your point is that it is “easier” to score a penalty than it is to score from open play.
How did we get into that debate? That’s pretty obvious.
Is anyone here saying it is harder?

The point being contested is that scoring a penalty in high-pressure situations (eg the tournament ‘shoot-out’) is far more than just “kicking a ball into a net 12 yards away” as you have quite dismissively described it. I’m even going as far as saying that the conversion rate might even be lower than penalties in regular play i.e. during the 90mins.

Then you’ve gone ahead and used the “sitter” in a comparison to a penalty, but your definition of a “sitter” is dodgy because it is not, by definition, what you define it to be.

A sitter is a goal opportunity extremely close to the goal line with very little by way of impediment preventing a sure goal. No way can you compare it to a penalty from 12 yards out and a keeper watching your every move in anticipation.

Just to see how the theory stands up, I’ve taken a quick look at World Cup penalty shoot-out conversions over roughly the last 30 years (from 1994) and the success rate is about 68%. That’s just over 2/3rds….meaning a third of those penalties were missed.
Why?

Penalty conversion rates in the top five leagues are as follows:
Ligue 1: 86.4%
Bundesliga: 83.3%
SerieA: 76.5%
La Liga: 73.2%
Premiership: 71.7%

Average: 78.2%
I wonder what %age of “sitters” are missed if we could find statistics with which to compare.
I reckon far less than penalties.

Anyway, whether you believe 70% of penalties are converted, or 80%, it still leaves at least 20% missed which, if we are to go by your belief in the ease of conversion, is unacceptably high.
That’s the issue, not whether penalties are easier than open play opportunities to convert.

[waka-man]

Wiseone, I think you have successfully created a false argument, and we all seem to have fallen for it!
Your point is that it is “easier” to score a penalty than it is to score from open play.
How did we get into that debate? That’s pretty obvious.
Is anyone here saying it is harder?

The point being contested is that scoring a penalty in high-pressure situations (eg the tournament ‘shoot-out’) is far more than just “kicking a ball into a net 12 yards away” as you have quite dismissively described it. I’m even going as far as saying that the conversion rate might even be lower than penalties in regular play i.e. during the 90mins.

Then you’ve gone ahead and used the “sitter” in a comparison to a penalty, but your definition of a “sitter” is dodgy because it is not, by definition, what you define it to be.

A sitter is a goal opportunity extremely close to the goal line with very little by way of impediment preventing a sure goal. No way can you compare it to a penalty from 12 yards out and a keeper watching your every move in anticipation.

Just to see how the theory stands up, I’ve taken a quick look at World Cup penalty shoot-out conversions over roughly the last 30 years (from 1994) and the success rate is about 68%. That’s just over 2/3rds….meaning a third of those penalties were missed.
Why?

Penalty conversion rates in the top five leagues are as follows:
Ligue 1: 86.4%
Bundesliga: 83.3%
SerieA: 76.5%
La Liga: 73.2%
Premiership: 71.7%

Average: 78.2%
I wonder what %age of “sitters” are missed if we could find statistics with which to compare.
I reckon far less than penalties.

Anyway, whether you believe 70% of penalties are converted, or 80%, it still leaves at least 20% missed which, if we are to go by your belief in the ease of conversion, is unacceptably high.
That’s the issue, not whether penalties are easier than open play opportunities to convert.

I was just about to point out the Jedi mind trick he played there to shift the argument. Slick. I respect.

But the point remains the conditions of a penalty shootout are unique in sport and even great penalty takers can suddenly fluff their lines.

[wiseone]

Damunk - au contraire mon ami. I have not shifted my argument at all. In fact it is you that did that by attributing a false quote to me. You made up a quote I never made by falsely claiming that I said that a penalty is: “just kicking a ball into a net 12 yards away”.

Please let me know the time and date I said that (on this thread or anywhere else). I will wait for you to find where I said that.

[Damunk]

Damunk - au contraire mon ami. I have not shifted my argument at all. In fact it is you that did that by attributing a false quote to me. You made up a quote I never made by falsely claiming that I said that a penalty is: “just kicking a ball into a net 12 yards away”.

Please let me know the time and date I said that (on this thread or anywhere else). I will wait for you to find where I said that.

My good friend, that's the clear impression I got when you said,
"Is it really that hard to expect a professional footballer to score an uncontested shot from 12 yards?"

That was the prompt from which the subsequent discussion arose.
You went on to talk about how, in open play, we get upset when a player misses a goal-scoring opportunity whilst being impeded by opposing defenders.
It would be hard for anyone to reach any other conclusions from your statements.
But its all good.

[wiseone]

That is a very lengthy way of confessing that I never said the quote you falsely attributed to me.

My good friend, that's the clear impression I got when you said,
"Is it really that hard to expect a professional footballer to score an uncontested shot from 12 yards?"

That was the prompt from which the subsequent discussion arose.
You went on to talk about how, in open play, we get upset when a player misses a goal-scoring opportunity whilst being impeded by opposing defenders.
It would be hard for anyone to reach any other conclusions from your statements.
But its all good.

[Enugu II]

Yes, Messi missed a penalty. What is your point? Every single penalty taker (not called Matt Le Tissier) has failed to convert a spot kick? So what?! Messi has also missed free kicks and 1 v 1s with the GK.

Messi has scored nearly 80% of the penalties he has taken in his career. Yet strangely he has not scored 80% of the 12 yard shots he has taken from open play. Why is that?

Because he finds it much easier to score an uncontested penalty from 12 yards than he does to score a 12 yard shot from open play when defenders are trying to block the shot.

It is easier to score a penalty than it is to score from open play. It would be madness to suggest otherwise.

Bros,

Really, but you saw perhaps the greatest soccer player, Lionel Messi, miss one. Now what do you think if we changed your statement in terms of Messi and state:

Is it really that hard to expect Lionel Messi to score an uncontested short from 12 yards? Please explain why he did not score from that distance, in a penalty shoot out, when the opportunity presented?

Please read: https://www.bleacherreport.com/articles ... gio-aguero

Wiseone,

You appear to miss the point. The reason people point out the pk situation is precisely because of your point that it is supposedly so easy. It isn't. That is because there are psychological aspects that should never be ignored in high pressure situations. I purposely used Messi as an example to point out that Falcons missing pks should not be excoriated. It highlights the fact that anyone, including the best, can miss in such situations. Hopefully, you now understand the point and why the Messi example is critical.

[Enugu II]

Wiseone, I think you have successfully created a false argument, and we all seem to have fallen for it!
Your point is that it is “easier” to score a penalty than it is to score from open play.
How did we get into that debate? That’s pretty obvious.
Is anyone here saying it is harder?

The point being contested is that scoring a penalty in high-pressure situations (eg the tournament ‘shoot-out’) is far more than just “kicking a ball into a net 12 yards away” as you have quite dismissively described it. I’m even going as far as saying that the conversion rate might even be lower than penalties in regular play i.e. during the 90mins.

Then you’ve gone ahead and used the “sitter” in a comparison to a penalty, but your definition of a “sitter” is dodgy because it is not, by definition, what you define it to be.

A sitter is a goal opportunity extremely close to the goal line with very little by way of impediment preventing a sure goal. No way can you compare it to a penalty from 12 yards out and a keeper watching your every move in anticipation.

Just to see how the theory stands up, I’ve taken a quick look at World Cup penalty shoot-out conversions over roughly the last 30 years (from 1994) and the success rate is about 68%. That’s just over 2/3rds….meaning a third of those penalties were missed.
Why?

Penalty conversion rates in the top five leagues are as follows:
Ligue 1: 86.4%
Bundesliga: 83.3%
SerieA: 76.5%
La Liga: 73.2%
Premiership: 71.7%

Average: 78.2%
I wonder what %age of “sitters” are missed if we could find statistics with which to compare.
I reckon far less than penalties.

Anyway, whether you believe 70% of penalties are converted, or 80%, it still leaves at least 20% missed which, if we are to go by your belief in the ease of conversion, is unacceptably high.
That’s the issue, not whether penalties are easier than open play opportunities to convert.

Damunk

Thanks for posting this. The lower percentage at the World Cups buttress the impact of psychological state. The reality is that as human beings this really should be expected. Players are not robots. The bigger the occasion, the higher the chances of error in very critical moments. I bet you that conversion rate for pks when your team is leading will be higher.

[Ayo Akinfe]

Our first five penalty takers should have been:

Oshoala
Kanu
Ajibade
Payne
Ucheibo

[Damunk]

Wiseone, I think you have successfully created a false argument, and we all seem to have fallen for it!
Your point is that it is “easier” to score a penalty than it is to score from open play.
How did we get into that debate? That’s pretty obvious.
Is anyone here saying it is harder?

The point being contested is that scoring a penalty in high-pressure situations (eg the tournament ‘shoot-out’) is far more than just “kicking a ball into a net 12 yards away” as you have quite dismissively described it. I’m even going as far as saying that the conversion rate might even be lower than penalties in regular play i.e. during the 90mins.

Then you’ve gone ahead and used the “sitter” in a comparison to a penalty, but your definition of a “sitter” is dodgy because it is not, by definition, what you define it to be.

A sitter is a goal opportunity extremely close to the goal line with very little by way of impediment preventing a sure goal. No way can you compare it to a penalty from 12 yards out and a keeper watching your every move in anticipation.

Just to see how the theory stands up, I’ve taken a quick look at World Cup penalty shoot-out conversions over roughly the last 30 years (from 1994) and the success rate is about 68%. That’s just over 2/3rds….meaning a third of those penalties were missed.
Why?

Penalty conversion rates in the top five leagues are as follows:
Ligue 1: 86.4%
Bundesliga: 83.3%
SerieA: 76.5%
La Liga: 73.2%
Premiership: 71.7%

Average: 78.2%
I wonder what %age of “sitters” are missed if we could find statistics with which to compare.
I reckon far less than penalties.

Anyway, whether you believe 70% of penalties are converted, or 80%, it still leaves at least 20% missed which, if we are to go by your belief in the ease of conversion, is unacceptably high.
That’s the issue, not whether penalties are easier than open play opportunities to convert.

Damunk

Thanks for posting this. The lower percentage at the World Cups buttress the impact of psychological state. The reality is that as human beings this really should be expected. Players are not robots. The bigger the occasion, the higher the chances of error in very critical moments. I bet you that conversion rate for pks when your team is leading will be higher.

Not only that. I have a sneaky feeling that the failure rate amongst ‘star’ players in shootouts is unusually higher than average.
I could virtually have predicted the penalty misses by all those I listed earlier.
It’s really weird.
I’ve been telling myself, “I really need to prove this by writing it on CE in advance”.