Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980

[aruako1]

What colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?

Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.

Quit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?

In case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.

Now, answer my question.

I didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.

Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.

Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.

A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.

If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.

If that outcome is $5m pa, great!

However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.

That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

[Lolly]

Quit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?

In case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.

Now, answer my question.

I didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.

Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.

Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.

A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.

If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.

If that outcome is $5m pa, great!

However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.

That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

There are many other Nigerians recruited from abroad who negotiated very good packages for themselves. Multinationals want results and it’s up to you to prove that you can deliver. I am surprised that some people still think along these lines, that the white man is favoured in Nigeria. Shocking!

[txj]

Quit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?

In case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.

Now, answer my question.

I didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.

Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.

Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.

A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.

If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.

If that outcome is $5m pa, great!

However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.

That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

[aruako1]

In case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.

Now, answer my question.

I didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.

Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.

Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.

A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.

If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.

If that outcome is $5m pa, great!

However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.

That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

[txj]

I didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.

Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.

Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.

A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.

If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.

If that outcome is $5m pa, great!

However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.

That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

[aruako1]

Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.

Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.

A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.

If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.

If that outcome is $5m pa, great!

However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.

That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

[txj]

This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

It may be unusual but the greater point is that these things are often on a case by case basis and not subject to the generalization that some of you favor...

A family member of mine in Shell, recruited locally is paid in $ at international rates. And she's not the only one.

Years ago a friend at Schlumberger was being paid at par with directors in Europe as part of a deal involving IPR..

[aruako1]

Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.

If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.

But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

It may be unusual but the greater point is that these things are often on a case by case basis and not subject to the generalization that some of you favor...

A family member of mine in Shell, recruited locally is paid in $ at international rates. And she's not the only one.

Years ago a friend at Schlumberger was being paid at par with directors in Europe as part of a deal involving IPR..

They were probably not recruited by Nigerian HR. And a few anecdotes do not take away from a general culture of placing a premium on whiteness in recruitment in Nigeria.

[txj]

This is about a systemic issue in Nigeria where your skin colour automatically determines your bargaining power. If Emenalo showed up, they would rather not hire him than pay him higher than a white man. That is Nigeria in any sector.

I am the international (EMEA and APAC) lead for my role at the American technology company where I work but if I decided to come back to Nigeria most multinationals would rather not hire me than pay me as much, or more, than their less experienced white expats. It happened to a colleague (a Nigerian born US citizen) who was hired from the US to run a big African account - once he moved they started slashing his benefits (no similar slash for the white expats).

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

It may be unusual but the greater point is that these things are often on a case by case basis and not subject to the generalization that some of you favor...

A family member of mine in Shell, recruited locally is paid in $ at international rates. And she's not the only one.

Years ago a friend at Schlumberger was being paid at par with directors in Europe as part of a deal involving IPR..

They were probably not recruited by Nigerian HR. And a few anecdotes do not take away from a general culture of placing a premium on whiteness in recruitment in Nigeria.

Not only were they recruited by Nigerian HR, several of them have had cross postings. The Schlumberger example is Director level, with a patent to his name...

My main point is, while there is a general sense of anything foreign being of good quality, Nigerian businessmen are also not mugs. These decisions are very situational and vary from one case to another...

If a Nigeria coach believes himself to be worth $100k/month, he should go for it, period! But you cannot expect the NFF to on their own offer to pay a Nigerian coach $100k. That's not how business works in real life!

Emenalo for instance would not apply for a job with the NFF. He will also not likely to accept being paid less than top dollars, because he knows that he's one of the top DOFs in the world...

[ohenhen1]

A good coach is a good coach. The NFF need to stop the discrimination by making statements they prefer foreign coaches over indigenous coaches.

[aruako1]

You or he can always walk!

It happened to me too. And I walked!

There're Nigerians I know in the O&G sector who earn as high as any expatriates and more...

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

It may be unusual but the greater point is that these things are often on a case by case basis and not subject to the generalization that some of you favor...

A family member of mine in Shell, recruited locally is paid in $ at international rates. And she's not the only one.

Years ago a friend at Schlumberger was being paid at par with directors in Europe as part of a deal involving IPR..

They were probably not recruited by Nigerian HR. And a few anecdotes do not take away from a general culture of placing a premium on whiteness in recruitment in Nigeria.

Not only were they recruited by Nigerian HR, several of them have had cross postings. The Schlumberger example is Director level, with a patent to his name...

My main point is, while there is a general sense of anything foreign being of good quality, Nigerian businessmen are also not mugs. These decisions are very situational and vary from one case to another...

If a Nigeria coach believes himself to be worth $100k/month, he should go for it, period! But you cannot expect the NFF to on their own offer to pay a Nigerian coach $100k. That's not how business works in real life!

Emenalo for instance would not apply for a job with the NFF. He will also not likely to accept being paid less than top dollars, because he knows that he's one of the top DOFs in the world...

Any Nigerian coach that tries to go for a good deal will not be considered. That is a loss to Nigeria. We should be looking tobreform the mindset, rather than blame the situation on coaches that accept lower pay than white coaches to serve their country.

[txj]

Yes. He can walk. But then the warped system that values people based on skin colour will remain unchallenged. And yes, other countries reward better for talent and ability - I'm paid according to my skills and ability here in the UK

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

It may be unusual but the greater point is that these things are often on a case by case basis and not subject to the generalization that some of you favor...

A family member of mine in Shell, recruited locally is paid in $ at international rates. And she's not the only one.

Years ago a friend at Schlumberger was being paid at par with directors in Europe as part of a deal involving IPR..

They were probably not recruited by Nigerian HR. And a few anecdotes do not take away from a general culture of placing a premium on whiteness in recruitment in Nigeria.

Not only were they recruited by Nigerian HR, several of them have had cross postings. The Schlumberger example is Director level, with a patent to his name...

My main point is, while there is a general sense of anything foreign being of good quality, Nigerian businessmen are also not mugs. These decisions are very situational and vary from one case to another...

If a Nigeria coach believes himself to be worth $100k/month, he should go for it, period! But you cannot expect the NFF to on their own offer to pay a Nigerian coach $100k. That's not how business works in real life!

Emenalo for instance would not apply for a job with the NFF. He will also not likely to accept being paid less than top dollars, because he knows that he's one of the top DOFs in the world...

Any Nigerian coach that tries to go for a good deal will not be considered. That is a loss to Nigeria. We should be looking tobreform the mindset, rather than blame the situation on coaches that accept lower pay than white coaches to serve their country.

The mindset you claim is only in your mind!

Nigerians are making business decisions everyday based on hard profitability decisions...

Siasia as I recall had a good deal based on his status when he started. Ditto for Oliseh.

[aruako1]

I just gave you an example of Nigerians being paid competitive international salary in the OnG sector.

Its very easy to play to the gallery. Siasia was paid a salary that included his foreign assistant.

Iweala was paid well in $.

Your example of Nigerians being paid as well as expatriates in the oil and gas sector in Nigeria is very unusual especially for those recruited by the local HR - the likes of Shell, Mobil and Total typically pay expatriates better. Iweala was an outlier recruited directly by two presidents.

It may be unusual but the greater point is that these things are often on a case by case basis and not subject to the generalization that some of you favor...

A family member of mine in Shell, recruited locally is paid in $ at international rates. And she's not the only one.

Years ago a friend at Schlumberger was being paid at par with directors in Europe as part of a deal involving IPR..

They were probably not recruited by Nigerian HR. And a few anecdotes do not take away from a general culture of placing a premium on whiteness in recruitment in Nigeria.

Not only were they recruited by Nigerian HR, several of them have had cross postings. The Schlumberger example is Director level, with a patent to his name...

My main point is, while there is a general sense of anything foreign being of good quality, Nigerian businessmen are also not mugs. These decisions are very situational and vary from one case to another...

If a Nigeria coach believes himself to be worth $100k/month, he should go for it, period! But you cannot expect the NFF to on their own offer to pay a Nigerian coach $100k. That's not how business works in real life!

Emenalo for instance would not apply for a job with the NFF. He will also not likely to accept being paid less than top dollars, because he knows that he's one of the top DOFs in the world...

Any Nigerian coach that tries to go for a good deal will not be considered. That is a loss to Nigeria. We should be looking tobreform the mindset, rather than blame the situation on coaches that accept lower pay than white coaches to serve their country.

The mindset you claim is only in your mind!

Nigerians are making business decisions everyday based on hard profitability decisions...

Siasia as I recall had a good deal based on his status when he started. Ditto for Oliseh.

It is not in my mind. Were any of them paid as much as the least paid foreign coach in the same period? The answer is no. You even admitted that Nigerians being paid at par with their white counterparts is "unusual". Was that in my mind as well? I'll repeat my position which will never change - we need to change the system to value people according to their capability, not the colour of their skin. In Nigeria, being white, even before considering for quality, attracts a pay premium. That is wrong.

[wanaj0]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

[aruako1]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

[maceo4]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

Is it just skin color or hazard pay? What is the incentive for an expatriate to leave a first world country to go work in a backwards 3rd world country (that's on many do not travel lists) other than pay? I know we want to boil it down to simply 'race', but there are a lot of 'black' folks (some even with Nigerian roots) taking advantage of this and getting a higher 'hazard' pay in Nigeria as an expatriate...its more nuanced than you are painting it to be...

[aruako1]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

Is it just skin color or hazard pay? What is the incentive for an expatriate to leave a first world country to go work in a backwards 3rd world country (that's on many do not travel lists) other than pay? I know we want to boil it down to simply 'race', but there are a lot of 'black' folks (some even with Nigerian roots) taking advantage of this and getting a higher 'hazard' pay in Nigeria as an expatriate...its more nuanced than you are painting it to be...

I know about hazard pay but it doesn't explain ×5 or x10 disparities in pay in multinationals. The few Nigerian born expatriates that get such contracts are outliers and often earned less than their white counterparts. Even Indians and Filipinos often earned more than locals but less than Nigerians.

[txj]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

Is it just skin color or hazard pay? What is the incentive for an expatriate to leave a first world country to go work in a backwards 3rd world country (that's on many do not travel lists) other than pay? I know we want to boil it down to simply 'race', but there are a lot of 'black' folks (some even with Nigerian roots) taking advantage of this and getting a higher 'hazard' pay in Nigeria as an expatriate...its more nuanced than you are painting it to be...

I know about hazard pay but it doesn't explain ×5 or x10 disparities in pay in multinationals. The few Nigerian born expatriates that get such contracts are outliers and often earned less than their white counterparts. Even Indians and Filipinos often earned more than locals but less than Nigerians.

Based on prevailing exchange rate?

I think you are trying too hard to make this fit into a preconceived narrative...

[aruako1]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

Is it just skin color or hazard pay? What is the incentive for an expatriate to leave a first world country to go work in a backwards 3rd world country (that's on many do not travel lists) other than pay? I know we want to boil it down to simply 'race', but there are a lot of 'black' folks (some even with Nigerian roots) taking advantage of this and getting a higher 'hazard' pay in Nigeria as an expatriate...its more nuanced than you are painting it to be...

I know about hazard pay but it doesn't explain ×5 or x10 disparities in pay in multinationals. The few Nigerian born expatriates that get such contracts are outliers and often earned less than their white counterparts. Even Indians and Filipinos often earned more than locals but less than Nigerians.

Based on prevailing exchange rate?

I think you are trying too hard to make this fit into a preconceived narrative...

This was the case even in 2014 when I left Nigeria. I don't even want to imagine what it is now. Nothing preconceived in my narrative. It is the truth. There is a premium payment uplift that comes with white skin in Nigeria. It is the same across multinationals, NGOs and even our football.

[deanotito]

AFCON Records for Nigeria: Local Vs Foreign Coach
Year -----------Position--------------------Coach-------------*Points
1980 -------------1st------------------------Foreign---------------7
1982 -------Group stage Exit-------------Foreign---------------1
1984 -------------2nd-----------------------Local-----------------6
1986--Did not qualify(DNQ)--------------Local-----------------0
1988 -------------2nd-----------------------Foreign--------------6
1990 -------------2nd-----------------------Foreign--------------6
1992 -------------3rd-----------------------Foreign--------------5
1994 -------------1st-----------------------Foreign---------------7
1996 -----------No show--------------------NA------------------NA
1998 -----------No show--------------------NA------------------NA
2000 -------------2nd-----------------------Foreign-------------6
2002 -------------3rd-----------------------Local----------------5
2004 -------------3rd-----------------------Local----------------5
2006 -------------3rd-----------------------Local----------------5
2008 ------Quarter final------------------Foreign-------------3
2010 -------------3rd-----------------------Local---------------3
2012 ------------DNQ-----------------------Local---------------0
2013 ------------1st-------------------------Local--------------7
2015 ------------DNQ------------------------Local--------------0
2017 ------------DNQ------------------------Local--------------0
2019 ------------3rd-------------------------Foreign------------5
2021 ------Second round-------------------Local--------------1
2023 -----------2nd--------------------------Foreign-----------6

Position Points
1st ----------7
2nd ----------6
3rd ----------5
4th ---------4
Quarter final----3
Second round---2
Group exit------1
Did not qualify(DNQ)--0

-------------------------Local-------Foreign---
In charge--------------------11 times-----10 times
1st-----------------------------1-------------2
2nd----------------------------1------------4
3rd----------------------------4------------2
4th----------------------------0------------0
Quarter final----------------0------------1
Second Round Exit---------1------------0
Group exit------------------0------------1
Did not qualify for competition--4------0
Average performance points----2.91------5.2

Summary
• Local coaches have had more opportunities (11) than foreign coaches (10 times) since 1980.
• No foreign coach has ever failed to qualify for AFCON since 1980
• Out of the 10 times foreign coaches made it to AFCON, they have made it to at least the semis (3rd) 8 times (80%). Local is 55%
• The local coaches have failed to qualify Nigeria for AFCON 4 times (all 4 times we missed AFCON).
• A statistical analysis showed that the difference between the performance points is statistically Significant. Foreign coaches (M = 5.2) have significantly better performance than their local counterparts (M = 2.91).

Good stuff

[txj]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

Is it just skin color or hazard pay? What is the incentive for an expatriate to leave a first world country to go work in a backwards 3rd world country (that's on many do not travel lists) other than pay? I know we want to boil it down to simply 'race', but there are a lot of 'black' folks (some even with Nigerian roots) taking advantage of this and getting a higher 'hazard' pay in Nigeria as an expatriate...its more nuanced than you are painting it to be...

I know about hazard pay but it doesn't explain ×5 or x10 disparities in pay in multinationals. The few Nigerian born expatriates that get such contracts are outliers and often earned less than their white counterparts. Even Indians and Filipinos often earned more than locals but less than Nigerians.

Based on prevailing exchange rate?

I think you are trying too hard to make this fit into a preconceived narrative...

This was the case even in 2014 when I left Nigeria. I don't even want to imagine what it is now. Nothing preconceived in my narrative. It is the truth. There is a premium payment uplift that comes with white skin in Nigeria. It is the same across multinationals, NGOs and even our football.

Your statement doesn't jive with reality

[Enugu II]

AFCON Records for Nigeria: Local Vs Foreign Coach
Year -----------Position--------------------Coach-------------*Points
1980 -------------1st------------------------Foreign---------------7
1982 -------Group stage Exit-------------Foreign---------------1
1984 -------------2nd-----------------------Local-----------------6
1986--Did not qualify(DNQ)--------------Local-----------------0
1988 -------------2nd-----------------------Foreign--------------6
1990 -------------2nd-----------------------Foreign--------------6
1992 -------------3rd-----------------------Foreign--------------5
1994 -------------1st-----------------------Foreign---------------7
1996 -----------No show--------------------NA------------------NA
1998 -----------No show--------------------NA------------------NA
2000 -------------2nd-----------------------Foreign-------------6
2002 -------------3rd-----------------------Local----------------5
2004 -------------3rd-----------------------Local----------------5
2006 -------------3rd-----------------------Local----------------5
2008 ------Quarter final------------------Foreign-------------3
2010 -------------3rd-----------------------Local---------------3
2012 ------------DNQ-----------------------Local---------------0
2013 ------------1st-------------------------Local--------------7
2015 ------------DNQ------------------------Local--------------0
2017 ------------DNQ------------------------Local--------------0
2019 ------------3rd-------------------------Foreign------------5
2021 ------Second round-------------------Local--------------1
2023 -----------2nd--------------------------Foreign-----------6

Position Points
1st ----------7
2nd ----------6
3rd ----------5
4th ---------4
Quarter final----3
Second round---2
Group exit------1
Did not qualify(DNQ)--0

-------------------------Local-------Foreign---
In charge--------------------11 times-----10 times
1st-----------------------------1-------------2
2nd----------------------------1------------4
3rd----------------------------4------------2
4th----------------------------0------------0
Quarter final----------------0------------1
Second Round Exit---------1------------0
Group exit------------------0------------1
Did not qualify for competition--4------0
Average performance points----2.91------5.2

Summary
• Local coaches have had more opportunities (11) than foreign coaches (10 times) since 1980.
• No foreign coach has ever failed to qualify for AFCON since 1980
• Out of the 10 times foreign coaches made it to AFCON, they have made it to at least the semis (3rd) 8 times (80%). Local is 55%
• The local coaches have failed to qualify Nigeria for AFCON 4 times (all 4 times we missed AFCON).
• A statistical analysis showed that the difference between the performance points is statistically Significant. Foreign coaches (M = 5.2) have significantly better performance than their local counterparts (M = 2.91).

ahidjo2,

I have just now looked at the data and have a few comments:

1. What is the formula that you have used in calculating the average? Please share.
2. Is there a reason why your data starts in 1980 and not 1957 when the AFCON began and Nigeria had long participated prior to 1980?
3. A notation to the above: It is possible not to take into consideration when the AFCON started but there has to be a pertinent reason for doing so. For instance, one could argue that 1974 could be used instead given that year long training for Nigerian footballers was not prevalent until the league was introduced in 1972 which impacted performance by Nigeria as is amply demonstrated by its clubs at the continental level and the performance of the national team which took off only thereafter.
4.You could also use 1988 or 1988 another marker, given that it was a period Nigeria drew significantly from footballers based overseas.
5. The point is that the use of 1980 appears quite arbitrary.
6. Given that the AFCON has been expanded along the years, it seems to me that the awarding of points beyond the third place finish is questionable. What is actually more consistent throughout the years of the AFCON is the top 3 finish and thus can be comparable over the years including the expansion years.
7. Why are foreign managers given credit, in your analysis, for 1980 and 1990. In those two years, I hope there is also the realization that it was a local manager that actually qualified the team to both tournaments (Paul Hamilton)? In fact, Hoener did not arrive until the tournament itself. This point may be unnecessary, except that you stress as a critical point the qualification to the tournament finals.

The points raised above are to put more context to the data that you have advanced. My view, I suspect that the data will will show that Nigeria accumulated more points under a foreign manager but the difference in points will be quite close and in a territory that is more likely insignificant. Nevertheless, one looks forward to your response.


The above constitute my thoughts.

[aruako1]

All over the world if you are expected as an expatriate on Expatriate terms you get paid HIGHER than a local equivalent. That you are a foreigner does not mean you will be on EXPATRIATE terms.

Most countries allow foreigners to work on EXPATRIATE terms ONLY if it can be demonstrated that their is no local capacity available.

Not in Finland. I moved there on an EXPATRIATE contract. I got a housing allowance but otherwise my pay was within the local pay range. In Nigeria we are talking about expatriates earning several multiples of what locals earned. In my experience as an external counsel to, and inhouse counsel at multinationals, black African expatriates were also paid lower. In Nigeria it is mostly a skin colour issue.

Is it just skin color or hazard pay? What is the incentive for an expatriate to leave a first world country to go work in a backwards 3rd world country (that's on many do not travel lists) other than pay? I know we want to boil it down to simply 'race', but there are a lot of 'black' folks (some even with Nigerian roots) taking advantage of this and getting a higher 'hazard' pay in Nigeria as an expatriate...its more nuanced than you are painting it to be...

I know about hazard pay but it doesn't explain ×5 or x10 disparities in pay in multinationals. The few Nigerian born expatriates that get such contracts are outliers and often earned less than their white counterparts. Even Indians and Filipinos often earned more than locals but less than Nigerians.

Based on prevailing exchange rate?

I think you are trying too hard to make this fit into a preconceived narrative...

This was the case even in 2014 when I left Nigeria. I don't even want to imagine what it is now. Nothing preconceived in my narrative. It is the truth. There is a premium payment uplift that comes with white skin in Nigeria. It is the same across multinationals, NGOs and even our football.

Your statement doesn't jive with reality

It jives with the reality of pay structures all over Nigeria. Expatriates typically earned x5 to x10 (before considering benefits like hardship allowances) than locals for similar roles 1p years ago. It has become worse even now.