Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
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Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
Any analysis that does not take the respective working conditions into account makes no sense.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:51 pmahidjo2 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:33 amYou can give all the excuses you want sir but facts are sacred. Developed countries make use of science, data and statistics to guide their decisions but most Africans dwell on inanities, innuendos, emotions, superstition, and sentiments. You can conduct your own analysis to prove to us that this statistical facts are skewed. Anything other than that, at least to the statistically rational mind, is noise.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
The facts are clear as 7up. Even when presented with empirical evidence they still try to controvert it with emotions and politics. What I see clearly in the numbers is that the best way to improve our performance at the Afcon is to get even better foreign coaches.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
Fine piece of work. Thanks for putting this together.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
There is nothing like pay equity at most jobs. You get a pay range for a position. Where you fall on the pay scale depends on your experience level and what you negotiate. If the pay scale for the position is N10 - N100, and you accept N10 instead of starting you negotiation at N100, then you can't blame anyone. Sometimes you can even settle for a pay cut to get what you want. Fpr example, if someone thinks he can get an agency job on the side as a SE coach, then he might take a small pay to get what he really wants. Bret Fart would even take the job with no pay so he can load the team with his clients from the Israeli League ..
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:46 pm It's not anybody's fault that some of them accepted to work in poor condition. Siasia stood his ground once and got $30k salary monthly. CCC on the other hand accepted $10k and started complaining about low pay.
The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not be in want.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
You, of all people, should know better.Damunk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:02 pmThere’s a loud silence in some quarters.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:51 pmahidjo2 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:33 amYou can give all the excuses you want sir but facts are sacred. Developed countries make use of science, data and statistics to guide their decisions but most Africans dwell on inanities, innuendos, emotions, superstition, and sentiments. You can conduct your own analysis to prove to us that this statistical facts are skewed. Anything other than that, at least to the statistically rational mind, is noise.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
The facts are clear as 7up. Even when presented with empirical evidence they still try to controvert it with emotions and politics. What I see clearly in the numbers is that the best way to improve our performance at the Afcon is to get even better foreign coaches.
Do you hear it?
Yes, the statistics put forth are damning.
The question that I would expect someone like you to ask is: are there confounding variables? I guess in your haste to sound politically correct, you just jumped in.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
What are the confounding variables? Abi na over-sabi or overconfidence dey do you? No forget say na overconfidence na-im make February no complete.
ANC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:17 pmYou, of all people, should know better.Damunk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:02 pmThere’s a loud silence in some quarters.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:51 pmahidjo2 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:33 amYou can give all the excuses you want sir but facts are sacred. Developed countries make use of science, data and statistics to guide their decisions but most Africans dwell on inanities, innuendos, emotions, superstition, and sentiments. You can conduct your own analysis to prove to us that this statistical facts are skewed. Anything other than that, at least to the statistically rational mind, is noise.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
The facts are clear as 7up. Even when presented with empirical evidence they still try to controvert it with emotions and politics. What I see clearly in the numbers is that the best way to improve our performance at the Afcon is to get even better foreign coaches.
Do you hear it?
Yes, the statistics put forth are damning.
The question that I would expect someone like you to ask is: are there confounding variables? I guess in your haste to sound politically correct, you just jumped in.
The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not be in want.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
Except that the higher pay happens to be offered to people of a certain race irrespective of ability. So the employer should bear no responsibility for pay practices that discriminate against people based on their nationality (where the discriminated are nationals of the country is situated) or race? Even in that bastion of capitalism, America, it wouldn't be acceptable.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:11 pm There is nothing like pay equity at most jobs. You get a pay range for a position. Where you fall on the pay scale depends on your experience level and what you negotiate. If the pay scale for the position is N10 - N100, and you accept N10 instead of starting you negotiation at N100, then you can't blame anyone. Sometimes you can even settle for a pay cut to get what you want. Fpr example, if someone thinks he can get an agency job on the side as a SE coach, then he might take a small pay to get what he really wants. Bret Fart would even take the job with no pay so he can load the team with his clients from the Israeli League ..
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:46 pm It's not anybody's fault that some of them accepted to work in poor condition. Siasia stood his ground once and got $30k salary monthly. CCC on the other hand accepted $10k and started complaining about low pay.
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Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
What variables?ANC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:17 pmYou, of all people, should know better.Damunk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:02 pmThere’s a loud silence in some quarters.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:51 pmahidjo2 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:33 amYou can give all the excuses you want sir but facts are sacred. Developed countries make use of science, data and statistics to guide their decisions but most Africans dwell on inanities, innuendos, emotions, superstition, and sentiments. You can conduct your own analysis to prove to us that this statistical facts are skewed. Anything other than that, at least to the statistically rational mind, is noise.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
The facts are clear as 7up. Even when presented with empirical evidence they still try to controvert it with emotions and politics. What I see clearly in the numbers is that the best way to improve our performance at the Afcon is to get even better foreign coaches.
Do you hear it?
Yes, the statistics put forth are damning.
The question that I would expect someone like you to ask is: are there confounding variables? I guess in your haste to sound politically correct, you just jumped in.
Rohr had to take us to FIFA court to get paid. His players were owed months of salary
Pesseiro and his players were also owed for months before the govt settled it just before AFCON.
Nff owed Keshi and Amodu until they died. Both died of illnesses in Nigeria.
Sunday Oliseh didn’t last long because of witchcraft and infighting.
Siasia and Salisu Yusuf decided to help themselves instead of waiting to get paid.
The last coach to get paid on time was Lagerback. He was smart enough to pick race after the WC.
Eguavoen has crashed us out of 2 competitions in the last 2yrs. They just gave him another 2 to crash.
If you remove keshi’s 2013 victory from the records the results would be even worse for local coaches. It’ll be 5.2 to 0.7. At this point in our development we should be aiming to hire top tier coaches for the SE and give them the time and peace to develope the team. Nigeria is a Top 15 nation talent wise. We should be looking up and hiring coaches in that can take us higher.
OCCUPY NFF!!
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
Wow.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:07 pmWhat variables?ANC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:17 pmYou, of all people, should know better.Damunk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:02 pmThere’s a loud silence in some quarters.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:51 pmahidjo2 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:33 amYou can give all the excuses you want sir but facts are sacred. Developed countries make use of science, data and statistics to guide their decisions but most Africans dwell on inanities, innuendos, emotions, superstition, and sentiments. You can conduct your own analysis to prove to us that this statistical facts are skewed. Anything other than that, at least to the statistically rational mind, is noise.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
The facts are clear as 7up. Even when presented with empirical evidence they still try to controvert it with emotions and politics. What I see clearly in the numbers is that the best way to improve our performance at the Afcon is to get even better foreign coaches.
Do you hear it?
Yes, the statistics put forth are damning.
The question that I would expect someone like you to ask is: are there confounding variables? I guess in your haste to sound politically correct, you just jumped in.
Rohr had to take us to FIFA court to get paid. His players were owed months of salary
Pesseiro and his players were also owed for months before the govt settled it just before AFCON.
Nff owed Keshi and Amodu until they died. Both died of illnesses in Nigeria.
Sunday Oliseh didn’t last long because of witchcraft and infighting.
Siasia and Salisu Yusuf decided to help themselves instead of waiting to get paid.
The last coach to get paid on time was Lagerback. He was smart enough to pick race after the WC.
Eguavoen has crashed us out of 2 competitions in the last 2yrs. They just gave him another 2 to crash.
If you remove keshi’s 2013 victory from the records the results would be even worse for local coaches. It’ll be 5.2 to 0.7. At this point in our development we should be aiming to hire top tier coaches for the SE and give them the time and peace to develope the team. Nigeria is a Top 15 nation talent wise. We should be looking up and hiring coaches in that can take us higher.
And yet people will come here and abuse those who were born abroad
for not wanting to join up with this kinda disorder.
Ok moving along
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
I do not pretend to know all the details. Overall, your foreign-born coaches earn more than the natives and likely get more support and respect. You may have said that Westerhoff had five years to build the 94 team. My evidence is not scientific, but based on the little I have observed from CE, the local coaches are given much less support than the foreign-born. Keshi was "fired" while still coaching the team to the AFCON championship. The only local coach I have observed to have received the respect and salary accorded to the likes of Rohr was Siasia. My point is that this is a difficult comparison to make. Hence, the statistics should be taken with a grain of salt.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:07 pmWhat variables?ANC wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:17 pmYou, of all people, should know better.Damunk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:02 pmThere’s a loud silence in some quarters.EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 4:51 pmahidjo2 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 1:33 amYou can give all the excuses you want sir but facts are sacred. Developed countries make use of science, data and statistics to guide their decisions but most Africans dwell on inanities, innuendos, emotions, superstition, and sentiments. You can conduct your own analysis to prove to us that this statistical facts are skewed. Anything other than that, at least to the statistically rational mind, is noise.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
The facts are clear as 7up. Even when presented with empirical evidence they still try to controvert it with emotions and politics. What I see clearly in the numbers is that the best way to improve our performance at the Afcon is to get even better foreign coaches.
Do you hear it?
Yes, the statistics put forth are damning.
The question that I would expect someone like you to ask is: are there confounding variables? I guess in your haste to sound politically correct, you just jumped in.
Rohr had to take us to FIFA court to get paid. His players were owed months of salary
Pesseiro and his players were also owed for months before the govt settled it just before AFCON.
Nff owed Keshi and Amodu until they died. Both died of illnesses in Nigeria.
Sunday Oliseh didn’t last long because of witchcraft and infighting.
Siasia and Salisu Yusuf decided to help themselves instead of waiting to get paid.
The last coach to get paid on time was Lagerback. He was smart enough to pick race after the WC.
Eguavoen has crashed us out of 2 competitions in the last 2yrs. They just gave him another 2 to crash.
If you remove keshi’s 2013 victory from the records the results would be even worse for local coaches. It’ll be 5.2 to 0.7. At this point in our development we should be aiming to hire top tier coaches for the SE and give them the time and peace to develope the team. Nigeria is a Top 15 nation talent wise. We should be looking up and hiring coaches in that can take us higher.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
You keep insisting that there is pay practice that desrciminate against local coaches when there is no proof of such practice. Again, it's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You have to demand for it, and if they can't meet your requirements, you move on. Most of us have faced such situation at some point of our careers. I have had to walk away from an offer because their 401k match offer did not meet my requirement, and I have also accepted a position for lesser pay because of the circumstances at the time. In both cases, the choice was up to me. Our local coaches have to develop similar mindset. I would like any local coach that is offered the job to start his pay negotiation with the same pay Peseiro was demanding and work his way down. But he has to be ready to walk away from the negotiation if it doesn't meet his needs instead of accepting it and then complain about pay disparity later on.
And in case you have forgotten, Peseiro had his monthly salary readuced by nearly 30%. Imagine if that had happened to a local coach.
And in case you have forgotten, Peseiro had his monthly salary readuced by nearly 30%. Imagine if that had happened to a local coach.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:35 pmExcept that the higher pay happens to be offered to people of a certain race irrespective of ability. So the employer should bear no responsibility for pay practices that discriminate against people based on their nationality (where the discriminated are nationals of the country is situated) or race? Even in that bastion of capitalism, America, it wouldn't be acceptable.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:11 pm There is nothing like pay equity at most jobs. You get a pay range for a position. Where you fall on the pay scale depends on your experience level and what you negotiate. If the pay scale for the position is N10 - N100, and you accept N10 instead of starting you negotiation at N100, then you can't blame anyone. Sometimes you can even settle for a pay cut to get what you want. Fpr example, if someone thinks he can get an agency job on the side as a SE coach, then he might take a small pay to get what he really wants. Bret Fart would even take the job with no pay so he can load the team with his clients from the Israeli League ..
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay
The Lord is my Shepherd. I shall not be in want.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
EMIR KONGI JAFFI JOFFA wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:07 pm
What variables?
Rohr had to take us to FIFA court to get paid. His players were owed months of salary
Pesseiro and his players were also owed for months before the govt settled it just before AFCON.
Yeah but they were both allowed to be based in Europe and they had money .. even if they were never paid by Nigeria they would still have money. ditto most of their players who make in on one week at their clubs what they are paid by Nigeira ..Point is payment/non payment doesnt bother players as much as it used to since they are not as dependent on it
Nff owed Keshi and Amodu until they died. Both died of illnesses in Nigeria.
Sunday Oliseh didn’t last long because of witchcraft and infighting.
Siasia and Salisu Yusuf decided to help themselves instead of waiting to get paid.
See my point above .. Keshi and Amodu didnt have the Dollar/Pound/Euro resources that the the likes of Rohr and Paseirro had .. Stress was what ultimately killed them
The last coach to get paid on time was Lagerback. He was smart enough to pick race after the WC.
Eguavoen has crashed us out of 2 competitions in the last 2yrs. They just gave him another 2 to crash.
And Lagerbeck gav us our WC ever despite being paid on time ,, What does that say about foreign coaches?
If you remove keshi’s 2013 victory from the records the results would be even worse for local coaches. It’ll be 5.2 to 0.7. At
And if you moved the timeline with foreign coaches from the 80s back to the 50s , 60s and 70s where we mostly had foreign coaches that 5.2 would be closer to 0.1
this point in our development we should be aiming to hire top tier coaches for the SE and give them the time and peace to develope the team. Nigeria is a Top 15 nation talent wise. We should be looking up and hiring coaches in that can take us higher.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
There is clearly pay discrimination in favour of white coaches v local coaches in Nigeria- that should not even be in debate. It is practically the same in all sectors of the economy in Nigeria. The country where you work in does not allow employment discrimination based on race.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 7:17 pm You keep insisting that there is pay practice that desrciminate against local coaches when there is no proof of such practice. Again, it's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You have to demand for it, and if they can't meet your requirements, you move on. Most of us have faced such situation at some point of our careers. I have had to walk away from an offer because their 401k match offer did not meet my requirement, and I have also accepted a position for lesser pay because of the circumstances at the time. In both cases, the choice was up to me. Our local coaches have to develop similar mindset. I would like any local coach that is offered the job to start his pay negotiation with the same pay Peseiro was demanding and work his way down. But he has to be ready to walk away from the negotiation if it doesn't meet his needs instead of accepting it and then complain about pay disparity later on.
And in case you have forgotten, Peseiro had his monthly salary readuced by nearly 30%. Imagine if that had happened to a local coach.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:35 pmExcept that the higher pay happens to be offered to people of a certain race irrespective of ability. So the employer should bear no responsibility for pay practices that discriminate against people based on their nationality (where the discriminated are nationals of the country is situated) or race? Even in that bastion of capitalism, America, it wouldn't be acceptable.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 6:11 pm There is nothing like pay equity at most jobs. You get a pay range for a position. Where you fall on the pay scale depends on your experience level and what you negotiate. If the pay scale for the position is N10 - N100, and you accept N10 instead of starting you negotiation at N100, then you can't blame anyone. Sometimes you can even settle for a pay cut to get what you want. Fpr example, if someone thinks he can get an agency job on the side as a SE coach, then he might take a small pay to get what he really wants. Bret Fart would even take the job with no pay so he can load the team with his clients from the Israeli League ..
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
No team has ever won the World Cup with a foreign coach.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
What would you say their plan is and what should it be if you had the chance to be an adviser?
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
And not forgetting that Peseinro was owed salaries just like some previous local coaches who would have been screaming on TV about their salaries and threatening to stop work. But the guy just got on with it.Damunk wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 10:04 amUhm…the last two substantive local coaches were paid pretty much in the same pay bracket as the foreigners ($28-33k/month). And they didn’t have to pay their assistants from their own salaries.Agbako wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 12:19 am How far do you want us to push ya skull up the anus of a Foreign coach ? Because from all indications the smell from that region of theirs is more palatable to you. Simple knowledge that our Local Coaches are never given same leverage be it salary or resources to do their job just rubbish the above falls stats.
So you are applying an old, outdated argument to current circumstances.
And yes, we agree that Finidi or Amuneke or whoever should be paid like any other foreign coach.
As long as you are okay with that, we are all good.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
What colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:46 pm It's not anybody's fault that some of them accepted to work in poor condition. Siasia stood his ground once and got $30k salary monthly. CCC on the other hand accepted $10k and started complaining about low pay.
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
Quit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:19 amWhat colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 2:46 pm It's not anybody's fault that some of them accepted to work in poor condition. Siasia stood his ground once and got $30k salary monthly. CCC on the other hand accepted $10k and started complaining about low pay.
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
In case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:10 pmQuit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:19 amWhat colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
Now, answer my question.
"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life"
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
"If my people, who are called by my name, will humble themselves and pray and seek my face and turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and will forgive their sin and will heal their land."
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
I didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:26 pmIn case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:10 pmQuit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:19 amWhat colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pmThat is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
Now, answer my question.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:41 pmI didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:26 pmIn case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:10 pmQuit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:19 amWhat colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:22 pm
That is where we differ, perhaps fundamentally. You cannot blame people with lower bargaining power for accepting roles. And we know that being white comes with higher bargaining power in Nigeria. Even Siasia's 30k was still lower than what we paid our recent foreign coaches. And the difference in treatment goes beyond pay
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
Now, answer my question.
Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.
Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.
A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.
If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.
If that outcome is $5m pa, great!
However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.
That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
This would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.txj wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:29 pmaruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:41 pmI didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:26 pmIn case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:10 pmQuit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:19 amWhat colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pmIt is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.1naija wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 3:39 pm It's not the responsibility of your employer to pay you what you think you are worth. You negotiate for it and if you don't like their offer, you walk away. You can't act desperate and be unprofessional about your job and expect to be taken seriously. The local coaches have to share some of the blame for some of the ways they have been treated in the past. They should never start the position without a solid contract in hand. And they should be ready to go all the way to FIFA if necessary if the contract is not honored. That's what the onyibo coaches do.
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
Now, answer my question.
Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.
Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.
A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.
If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.
If that outcome is $5m pa, great!
However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.
That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.
Re: Local Vs Foreign Coach Debate. Data and Statistics since 1980
aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:02 pmThis would make loads of sense if it was not the norm in EVERY SECTOR in Nigeria to pay white people more than black people. Go to any multinational or even the big local companies. Any Nigerian coach that tries to negotiate a big salary will be ignored and shunned for a journeyman European coach who will be paid even more or a "less troublesome" local coach who will accept less. Not everything is about demand and supply.txj wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 2:29 pmaruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:41 pmI didn't miss it. Belgium has no history of offering higher payments to foreigners - Nigeria has. Roberto Martinez was paid €1.2 a year when he took over. They had to pay that amount to Martinez as they could not attract Belgian coaches like Leekens (who left in 2012 for Brugge for about €1 million) or Eric Gerets. They did not pay Martinez more because he was a foreigner. In Nigeria you get paid more simply because you are white.Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 1:26 pmIn case you missed it, we are discussing national team coaches.aruako1 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 12:10 pmQuit with your whataboutery. Anderlecht in Belgium gave a black man, Kompany, a €5 million a year contract so I won't complain. Where is the Kompany example in Nigeria?Lolly wrote: ↑Sun Mar 17, 2024 8:19 amWhat colour of skin gave Martinez premium pay in Belgium?aruako1 wrote: ↑Wed Mar 06, 2024 5:05 pm
It is the responsibility of the employer to offer pay equity, especially in a position of national interest where a particular class, in the case the locals, are disadvantaged in bargaining power. You can dip your head in the sand and pretend that being foreign, especially white, does not give an automatic pay premium in Nigeria, irrespective of ability. Ask any Nigerian worker in a multinational or even local companies. It is a system problem and has nothing to do with desperation.
Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.
Now, answer my question.
Belgium did not pay Martinez more because that's what they NEGOTIATED with him.
Nigeria does not pay FCs more because they are white. They pay more b/c that's what they NEGOTIATED.
A contract is the outcome of a negotiation between two parties.
If a Nigerian coach is confident/willing, I expect them to ask to be paid as much as Diego Simeone. What they end up being paid will be the outcome of a negotiated agreement.
If that outcome is $5m pa, great!
However, what some of you are asking is for the NFF to pay a Nigerian coach a predetermined high amount, just to match what another (FC) coach is paid.
That's not how contracts are negotiated in practice...Every party in a contract negotiation sets out to maximize value.
Nobody, no employer will offer anyone more than they are ready to accept.
If Amunike believes himself worth $5m pa, I encourage him to go for it.
But its laughable to expect the NFF to simply pay him that amount because some other coach negotiated that amount for himself.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp