Like Eric Chelle, Like Hansi Flick

[Cellular]

Can we take solace in the fact that Hansi goofed by bringing on Lewandowski in the 90th minute when he was 3-2 ahead and just needed to run down the clock, similar to what Chelle did vs Zimbabwe? So, it's not just journey men coaches of African national teams that commit such errors.

I know some WOWO worshippers won't think it's a goof because oyinbos couldn't do wrong tactically. Samson Siasia did likewise in 2012 and drew vs Guinea and was sacked for it, though his decision making then may have been based on wrongful permutations.

The only thing that's going for SE now is the expected 3 points that will be deducted from South Africa' haul, which means that either a win or draw vs Zimbabwe in Uyo still sentences us to a win in South Africa.

Tactically, many of you here are very very poor and read games in a box. Its also very shallow tactically analysis to assume that the only way to defend is to substitute in a defender/defenders.

You should go back and watch the last 15 minutes to understand why Flick brought in Lewandowski.

Yes I agree, it is NOT the only way to defend a lead...
There are varying schools of thought on how to defend a lead.
The Mourinho way of bringing in a 'closer' wins more games than it loses.
But each game is different.

I am of the school of thought that a Midfielder or an extra defender increases your chances of seeing off a result than a striker.
But then again, there's the element of luck.

But I won't do you any favors by NOT increasing the number of ball winners (Midfielders and defenders) and bringing in a striker.

Ps., I wonder what their analytics said to do... or wasn't it just a matter of coach's instincts?

[danfo driver]

Can we take solace in the fact that Hansi goofed by bringing on Lewandowski in the 90th minute when he was 3-2 ahead and just needed to run down the clock, similar to what Chelle did vs Zimbabwe? So, it's not just journey men coaches of African national teams that commit such errors.

I know some WOWO worshippers won't think it's a goof because oyinbos couldn't do wrong tactically. Samson Siasia did likewise in 2012 and drew vs Guinea and was sacked for it, though his decision making then may have been based on wrongful permutations.

The only thing that's going for SE now is the expected 3 points that will be deducted from South Africa' haul, which means that either a win or draw vs Zimbabwe in Uyo still sentences us to a win in South Africa.

Tactically, many of you here are very very poor and read games in a box. Its also very shallow tactically analysis to assume that the only way to defend is to substitute in a defender/defenders.

You should go back and watch the last 15 minutes to understand why Flick brought in Lewandowski.

Yes I agree, it is NOT the only way to defend a lead...
There are varying schools of thought on how to defend a lead.
The Mourinho way of bringing in a 'closer' wins more games than it loses.
But each game is different.

I am of the school of thought that a Midfielder or an extra defender increases your chances of seeing off a result than a striker.
But then again, there's the element of luck.

But I won't do you any favors by NOT increasing the number of ball winners (Midfielders and defenders) and bringing in a striker.

Ps., I wonder what their analytics said to do... or wasn't it just a matter of coach's instincts?

Coaches started walking away from the Mourinho way some years ago, when the likes of Conte came up with the tactics of dropping the ball in the back-post. It was like a "drum of water" that had so much pressure and would likely burst. The deeper the defensive line dropped, the more likely that the pressure on that line will force errors. Also, when you have a lot of bodies that deep, they get in each other's way and make mistakes. Thats why nowadays, you notice a lot of coaches shout at their players to push up.

Definitely not a bad idea to bring in extra defender or midfielder, yes! But you'll notice some coaches also rely on bringing in an extra forward... either one that id dogged (Teremi), or one that has pace. This usually helps when you have that dogged St pressing and closing up, making sure that the opponent's passing lines or crosses at thwarted at the top. And in other cases (with a fast striker), making sure that the opponent is forced to keep one or two men back and not attack with their full compliments of players.

I can also see a coach bringing in a strong and tall DEFENDER and play him as a striker! This could be a case where the coach determines that he needs someone up top with strenght to hold on to the ball and win freekicks, even though his team is winning a defending a lead.

But I do agree that there is no one-size-fits-all! The coach sees what he sees and can make a decision as to how to approach it.

[Cellular]

Can we take solace in the fact that Hansi goofed by bringing on Lewandowski in the 90th minute when he was 3-2 ahead and just needed to run down the clock, similar to what Chelle did vs Zimbabwe? So, it's not just journey men coaches of African national teams that commit such errors.

I know some WOWO worshippers won't think it's a goof because oyinbos couldn't do wrong tactically. Samson Siasia did likewise in 2012 and drew vs Guinea and was sacked for it, though his decision making then may have been based on wrongful permutations.

The only thing that's going for SE now is the expected 3 points that will be deducted from South Africa' haul, which means that either a win or draw vs Zimbabwe in Uyo still sentences us to a win in South Africa.

Tactically, many of you here are very very poor and read games in a box. Its also very shallow tactically analysis to assume that the only way to defend is to substitute in a defender/defenders.

You should go back and watch the last 15 minutes to understand why Flick brought in Lewandowski.

Yes I agree, it is NOT the only way to defend a lead...
There are varying schools of thought on how to defend a lead.
The Mourinho way of bringing in a 'closer' wins more games than it loses.
But each game is different.

I am of the school of thought that a Midfielder or an extra defender increases your chances of seeing off a result than a striker.
But then again, there's the element of luck.

But I won't do you any favors by NOT increasing the number of ball winners (Midfielders and defenders) and bringing in a striker.

Ps., I wonder what their analytics said to do... or wasn't it just a matter of coach's instincts?

Coaches started walking away from the Mourinho way some years ago, when the likes of Conte came up with the tactics of dropping the ball in the back-post. It was like a "drum of water" that had so much pressure and would likely burst. The deeper the defensive line dropped, the more likely that the pressure on that line will force errors. Also, when you have a lot of bodies that deep, they get in each other's way and make mistakes. Thats why nowadays, you notice a lot of coaches shout at their players to push up.

Definitely not a bad idea to bring in extra defender or midfielder, yes! But you'll notice some coaches also rely on bringing in an extra forward... either one that id dogged (Teremi), or one that has pace. This usually helps when you have that dogged St pressing and closing up, making sure that the opponent's passing lines or crosses at thwarted at the top. And in other cases (with a fast striker), making sure that the opponent is forced to keep one or two men back and not attack with their full compliments of players.

I can also see a coach bringing in a strong and tall DEFENDER and play him as a striker! This could be a case where the coach determines that he needs someone up top with strenght to hold on to the ball and win freekicks, even though his team is winning a defending a lead.

But I do agree that there is no one-size-fits-all! The coach sees what he sees and can make a decision as to how to approach it.

DD, that is why, as fans, we are not privy to what the coaching staff knows. Are they using analytics? Do they have a full complement of reserves to make the 'right' decision?

Football, and indeed, sports, can be cruel. I watched a good team give up 2 goal leads, twice. I saw a young team without its full complement of players come back against a seasoned team and later fall...

Was it tactics? Or just the luck of how the ball bounces?

I still would want to know why they fall 2 goals down... find a way to climb back and how Inter remains resolute.


PS., are you watching the NBA playoffs? Did you see an experienced Boston team blow leads in back-to-back games?

[danfo driver]

DD, that is why, as fans, we are not privy to what the coaching staff knows. Are they using analytics? Do they have a full complement of reserves to make the 'right' decision?

Football, and indeed, sports, can be cruel. I watched a good team give up 2 goal leads, twice. I saw a young team without its full complement of players come back against a seasoned team and later fall...

Was it tactics? Or just the luck of how the ball bounces?

I still would want to know why they fall 2 goals down... find a way to climb back and how Inter remains resolute.

Its an interesting one. Stadia has an effect. I have been to the San Siro once - on a stadium visit, so it was empty - and it was dominating. So, just imagine that stadium full to the bream with 70,000 people screaming against you and 5,000 sreaming in your favor, but you cant hear what they are saying. It can be intimidating. So, going down 2 goals initially is no surprise in that hostile ground.

Collapsing the second time is more on Inter. Yes, Barca lost their shape when Inter scored the 3rd goal, but truth is Arcebi continued to make that run because of the determination that comes from a mind of someone who has been there and done that! Someone who knows the game is not over until the whistle goes.

The barca team will learn. They will learn because they have the ability and all they need is these experiences to "season" them.

PS., are you watching the NBA playoffs? Did you see an experienced Boston team blow leads in back-to-back games?

I am terrible with "sports." It has always been football or nothing. With all my height, I never gave basketball a chance. In college, people often thought I was a basketball player or on the American football team. for where!?? I didnt even watch those games. I stepped into out football arena ONCE and it was because woman carry enter there.

[naijaguy]

Can we take solace in the fact that Hansi goofed by bringing on Lewandowski in the 90th minute when he was 3-2 ahead and just needed to run down the clock, similar to what Chelle did vs Zimbabwe? So, it's not just journey men coaches of African national teams that commit such errors.

I know some WOWO worshippers won't think it's a goof because oyinbos couldn't do wrong tactically. Samson Siasia did likewise in 2012 and drew vs Guinea and was sacked for it, though his decision making then may have been based on wrongful permutations.

The only thing that's going for SE now is the expected 3 points that will be deducted from South Africa' haul, which means that either a win or draw vs Zimbabwe in Uyo still sentences us to a win in South Africa.

It's one thing not to know how to play football, it's another thing not to know how to watch football.
How can you be blaming Flick for losing a champions league semi final 7-6 on aggregate with the youngest Barcelona team ever to play in the champions league.
You are equally indirectly dismissing Inter Milan's quality and Inzaghi's coaching acumen.

I don't think it's that difficult to focus on the post rather than the post. There's no opinion that supersedes another.

On Barcelona's youngsters, I don't think we can use their young age as an excuse NOW. Those same youngsters also got them to the semis, dismissing teams like they weren't there but we didn't remember then that they were young. In the same vein that they are young, Acerbi, a centre back, who scored his first goal of this season in that match, ironically, after Lewa had been introduced, is also old at 37 years. So, if he gets turned inside out in the final, his old age hasn't mattered till now.

Acerbi didn't give a rat's behind about a newly introduced striker with fresh lungs, ventured forward and scored the equalizer. By the way, a player like Yamal is no longer young; Bobo has 100 Barca games at 17 years, not to talk of winning Euro with Spain. Let's pause and remember that the Ajax team that won in 1995 was a very young team.

In any case, it's not about dismissing Inter's quality. It's about coaches not protecting important leads for just a few minutes. Some coaches tend to make defensive football look like dirt. I'm a regular guest on a Sunday sports programme and I actually predicted correctly that Inter will win from the get go. Despite Inter losing 3 games losing on the trot before Barcelona, when asked again, I said Inter's chances of winning were 51-49, adding that defence will win the game.

As it's often said, goals win games, defence win tournaments. Speaking with Dammy today, I said it goes way back to 1982, in my own memory, when Brazil, who had the advantage at 2-2 vs Italy in the World Cup, sheepishly concerned another goal to lose the semi final spot. Jose Mourinho defeated Barca with defence 15 years ago. A couple of years later, Roberto di Matteo did the same thing though all in different circumstances. I also recall one UCL game where Man Utd were dominating and leading Real Madrid, then Nani got a red card. Mourinho's action was swift. He subbed on a striker but Ferguson didn't respond and Real went on to win the match at Old Trafford and the tie.

If Eric Chelle does that thing again, he should be sacked at the stadium. It happened to him vs CIV in AFCON, when he failed to react to the introduction of Adingra in the closing minutes, he conceded a goal in the last minute scored by Adingra and lost the match in extra time. It happened to him again vs Zimbabwe. Maybe, we'd have lost if there was extra time.

Football is both common and uncommon sense.

One thing I believe you and I can agree on is that Barcelona could have as well won that match. Inter won that match based on experience.
7-6 aggregate no be child's play.
They have been making such substitutions all season. They play a very high line football and that's their style.
They played this same way and won the supa cup against Madrid.
They played same way and won the Copa del rey against Madrid.
They are on course to win the Spanish league playing and substituting same way.
Losing a semi final 7-6 against Inter Milan is not something to chastise the coach about to be honest. If Lewandowski had scored the header he missed, the story would have been different.
I'm guessing you are a Barca fan and probably pissed by the loss, but that's football. You can't win all the time.

[anointed]

Can we take solace in the fact that Hansi goofed by bringing on Lewandowski in the 90th minute when he was 3-2 ahead and just needed to run down the clock, similar to what Chelle did vs Zimbabwe? So, it's not just journey men coaches of African national teams that commit such errors.

I know some WOWO worshippers won't think it's a goof because oyinbos couldn't do wrong tactically. Samson Siasia did likewise in 2012 and drew vs Guinea and was sacked for it, though his decision making then may have been based on wrongful permutations.

The only thing that's going for SE now is the expected 3 points that will be deducted from South Africa' haul, which means that either a win or draw vs Zimbabwe in Uyo still sentences us to a win in South Africa.

It's one thing not to know how to play football, it's another thing not to know how to watch football.
How can you be blaming Flick for losing a champions league semi final 7-6 on aggregate with the youngest Barcelona team ever to play in the champions league.
You are equally indirectly dismissing Inter Milan's quality and Inzaghi's coaching acumen.

I don't think it's that difficult to focus on the post rather than the post. There's no opinion that supersedes another.

On Barcelona's youngsters, I don't think we can use their young age as an excuse NOW. Those same youngsters also got them to the semis, dismissing teams like they weren't there but we didn't remember then that they were young. In the same vein that they are young, Acerbi, a centre back, who scored his first goal of this season in that match, ironically, after Lewa had been introduced, is also old at 37 years. So, if he gets turned inside out in the final, his old age hasn't mattered till now.

Acerbi didn't give a rat's behind about a newly introduced striker with fresh lungs, ventured forward and scored the equalizer. By the way, a player like Yamal is no longer young; Bobo has 100 Barca games at 17 years, not to talk of winning Euro with Spain. Let's pause and remember that the Ajax team that won in 1995 was a very young team.

In any case, it's not about dismissing Inter's quality. It's about coaches not protecting important leads for just a few minutes. Some coaches tend to make defensive football look like dirt. I'm a regular guest on a Sunday sports programme and I actually predicted correctly that Inter will win from the get go. Despite Inter losing 3 games losing on the trot before Barcelona, when asked again, I said Inter's chances of winning were 51-49, adding that defence will win the game.

As it's often said, goals win games, defence win tournaments. Speaking with Dammy today, I said it goes way back to 1982, in my own memory, when Brazil, who had the advantage at 2-2 vs Italy in the World Cup, sheepishly concerned another goal to lose the semi final spot. Jose Mourinho defeated Barca with defence 15 years ago. A couple of years later, Roberto di Matteo did the same thing though all in different circumstances. I also recall one UCL game where Man Utd were dominating and leading Real Madrid, then Nani got a red card. Mourinho's action was swift. He subbed on a striker but Ferguson didn't respond and Real went on to win the match at Old Trafford and the tie.

If Eric Chelle does that thing again, he should be sacked at the stadium. It happened to him vs CIV in AFCON, when he failed to react to the introduction of Adingra in the closing minutes, he conceded a goal in the last minute scored by Adingra and lost the match in extra time. It happened to him again vs Zimbabwe. Maybe, we'd have lost if there was extra time.

Football is both common and uncommon sense.

One thing I believe you and I can agree on is that Barcelona could have as well won that match. Inter won that match based on experience.
7-6 aggregate no be child's play.
They have been making such substitutions all season. They play a very high line football and that's their style.
They played this same way and won the supa cup against Madrid.
They played same way and won the Copa del rey against Madrid.
They are on course to win the Spanish league playing and substituting same way.
Losing a semi final 7-6 against Inter Milan is not something to chastise the coach about to be honest. If Lewandowski had scored the header he missed, the story would have been different.
I'm guessing you are a Barca fan and probably pissed by the loss, but that's football. You can't win all the time.

Fabio Capello doesn't agree. He feels Flick was arrogant with the closing minutes game management.
https://football-italia.net/capello-fli ... oss-inter/

I am not a Barca fan. Where this resonates with is how Eric Chelle lost to Zimbabwe.

[kali]

Inzaghi had experienced players and it was telling that Barcelona were tracking all the wrong players. Look at Inters equalizing goal. Thuram fed Dumfries who then skipped the ball past Martins and fed Acerbi who had run all the way from the back into the box to receive the cross.

I don't think any team has done to Barcelona in such emphatic fashion what Inter has done while conceding possession. The last to do it over 90 minutes was Jose Mourinho who had a far stronger backline.

That said I see PSG winning the final. Unlike Barcelona they have super wingbacks in Hakimi and Mendes and strong central defenders helped out by a battling midfield. PSGs only weakness is their tendency to miss lots of easy goals.

[theDunamis]

Fabio Capello doesn't agree. He feels Flick was arrogant with the closing minutes game management.
https://football-italia.net/capello-fli ... oss-inter/

I am not a Barca fan. Where this resonates with is how Eric Chelle lost to Zimbabwe.

If your team comes back from a 2 goal deficit twice over 2 legs and you cannot figure out how to keep a marginal lead for 3 minutes plus added time, then yes, Hansi Flick shoulders the blame no matter what excuses our internet coaches here are coming up with.

Inzaghi and Inter at that point in the game don't mind losing 4 - 2 if it is the expense they may have to pay for going kamikaze in seeking a season-defining equalizer. So, one of the possible tactical reasons for bringing on Lewa (i.e., to keep Inter's defense cautious) becomes completely moot.

The other possible tactical reasons (including to deploy his aerial prowess defensively against set-piece threats from Inter) also clearly did not work out as Inter not only got their equalizer but went on to grab the match winning goal in extra time.

It's at times like this that the phrase Keep It Simple, Stupid comes to mind; else prepare for the KISS of death.

[theDunamis]

[anointed]

Would have been good to see more clearly the video Henry was analyzing but I guess he has reminisced a lot on what JJ Okocha did to Arsenal with the corner flag back in the day. Used to say then that JJ was Bolton the arses in Arsenal or something like that.

Honestly, I don't remember vividly Arsenal in the days of Henry or anyone using the corner flag to run down the clock but here's Henry punting about it.

I believe that tactic wasn't invented by JJ but bobo redefined and popularized it, giving it a new meaning.

[theDunamis]

Would have been good to see more clearly the video Henry was analyzing but I guess he has reminisced a lot on what JJ Okocha did to Arsenal with the corner flag back in the day. Used to say then that JJ was Bolton the arses in Arsenal or something like that.

Honestly, I don't remember vividly Arsenal in the days of Henry or anyone using the corner flag to run down the clock but here's Henry punting about it.

I believe that tactic wasn't invented by JJ but bobo redefined and popularized it, giving it a new meaning.

The high level objective of that tactic is to wind down the clock by maintaining possession and to maintain it in the area of the pitch with the least risk. So, yes, if you have ball juggernauts like JJ and Lamine on your team, you want to leverage their skills at such moments in a game and in those low-risk areas of the pitch.