The Miseducation of The CyberEagles Forumites!

RudeBoy · Post by **RudeBoy** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 4:52 pm

Over the last few days I have read with dismay the level of prejudice displayed by some of the members on the forum. Forget for a minute the normal rantings of 1Naija and his anti Yoruba diatribe or the normal Igbo v rest of Nigeria arguments. What I would like to bring to the attention of the R&R posse are examples of what I consider to be extreme prejudice, prejudice which is actually tolerated on our sites here. How can we purport to stand up for what is right when our own house is not in order? I give you 2 examples:

Example 1

Shownoja wrote:Another option at right back, and another mulato as well

Mulato (sic)? Mullato is a derivative of the Spanish word mulo which means….mule. A mule is the offspring of a horse and an #$%!

Do you think Abbey George, Osaze or even our own Suya would like to be addressed as such?

Example 2

Chief Bambostic wrote:
geminikoat wrote:Osazee is tha man!

God will bless that young looking guy for using his real age of 23. If na 100% naija, we would be looking at the next 17 year old wonderkid. I believe that because of his mixed upbringing (spent 3 years in the youth academy for CSKA Moscow from age 17), it would have been difficult for them to assign him a "football age"

The two things grossly wrong with this comment are:

1) How can one say Osaze is not “100% Naija”? I’m sure he considers himself to be Nigerian so how can one say he is not really a full Naija? Is this not a form of racism?

2) the perceived and implied proffering that Nigerians as a whole are untrustworthy.

cchinukw · Post by **cchinukw** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:02 pm

I have to concur with you on this one Rudeboy.

King of the Abyss · Post by **King of the Abyss** » Wed Feb 04, 2004 5:30 pm

Rudeboy,

Here is the Encarta listing for mulatto

"1. a taboo term for somebody who has one black and one Caucasian parent

2. a taboo term for somebody who has both black and Caucasian ancestors

3. a term, socially acceptable in the Caribbean Islands and other Latin American regions, for somebody who has one black and one Caucasian parent

4. a term, socially acceptable in the Caribbean Islands and other Latin American regions, for somebody who has both black and Caucasian ancestors"

Like you can see, it cuts both ways depending on the prevailing social millieu. It's almost like the "Pardo" term in Brazil. And we can't take the origin of the word at face value either without fully knowing how it became to adapted to describe this group of people. Some have also found words like "boy" or "pickanninny" offensive, but there are no absolute measures for offensiveness with the use of these words.

Finally, let me say that in my own experience, in the every day Nigerian usage of the term "mulatto", there was never any negative connotation assigned to it, unlike a word like "Malla", "Molla" for instance. It's all good and well to enlighten, but I think you have gone overboard in levelling accusations which are at par with calling someone a racist.

original skeepolah · Post by **original skeepolah** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:16 am

But that is where the word mulatto came from, and that is what it means(whether intentionally knowing or not). I kknow it has become common language and the norm but if that is what it means away with the word!!!!!!!!!!!

Post by **nanijoe** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:29 am

In Nigeria 'mulatto' AND 'half-caste' are most certainly not derogatory words, if anything I'd almost call them positive words.
Of course if you want the slap of your life, try to use either of those words to describe someone here in the US.

original skeepolah · Post by **original skeepolah** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 8:33 am

Yeah, i guess it is a cultural thing...some words are offensice here while back in oither places they are the norm.................

peppersoup · Post by **peppersoup** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 9:22 am

In Nigeria 'mulatto' AND 'half-caste' are most certainly not derogatory words, if anything I'd almost call them positive words.

...this is because we pick up some words in that society and don't care about its origin. In some cases even when it has lost its relevance, we don't care to go back to the source again to do a real time check. "Mullato" and "half-caste" sound nice, who cares what they mean! it is sad

King of the Abyss · Post by **King of the Abyss** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:23 pm

Aquinas

It seems that people will only hear what it is they wish to hear. The origins of the word and how it became associated with people of a particular stock is still not particularly clear.

A "mule" is a "hybrid" of two different species and one can imagine it's usage ORIGINALLY in a non-derogatory way to describe a people of mixed-race.
It is entirely possible that over the years, in some societies, especially those with an alienating cultural dynamic, e.g the US, such descriptions took on negative associations, and gradually over the years have become less culturally acceptable.

However there is no one size fits all here. My argument is that you can not flaggelate anyone for using a description which is culturally appropriate. It is noteworthy that in the US, people balk at describing a third person by ANY physical character, which MAY be though of as carrying negative connotations, so that you can't say "the little man" but it okay to say "the little old lady" and you can't describe someone as fat or short, something which is done pervasively in Nigeria.

When people are judged, this time by Rudeboy, they should be judged within the cultural context they operate in. Those who are offended by the usage of such word can explain why THEY find the usage offensive instead of launching a diatribe.

Scipio Africanus · Post by **Scipio Africanus** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:35 pm

It is all fine and dandy to intellectualize when your sense of self-worth is not on the line, but how would you feel if someone from Germany or Norway came to the US or the UK where you reside and consistently called you "Neger".

"Neger" as you can imagine sounds like "#$%$*".

Now Neger is commonly used to describe black people in both Germany and Norway, without any negative intent. But in the context of the US and Britain, it can be very offensive.

Riche007 · Post by **Riche007** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:53 pm

AquinasCollege wrote:
In Nigeria 'mulatto' AND 'half-caste' are most certainly not derogatory words, if anything I'd almost call them positive words.
...this is because we pick up some words in that society and don't care about its origin. In some cases even when it has lost its relevance, we don't care to go back to the source again to do a real time check. "Mullato" and "half-caste" sound nice, who cares what they mean! it is sad

Maybe u shud go back and educate the 120million pple in Nigeria about the origin of some words.

cic old boy · Post by **cic old boy** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 2:53 pm

Scipio: I agree with you. You know in Germany they pronounce "Nigeria" as "#$%$*-ria", and whenever they do so my "racism awareness antenna" subconsciously goes up.

I agree with RB's sentiments. There are words, though acceptable in the past, that conjure negative images. We should, in this day and age, move away from using them. The purity of intentions on the part of the user doesn't matter. The bottomline is that they have the potential for causing offence.

"Negroes", "coloured", "tribe", etc are words with negative connotations. More and more people are recognising this and no longer using them. "Mulatto" was seen in that vein, and was sort of replaced by "half-caste". This was also seen as offensive and the appropriate term to use now is "mixed race".

RB: I think your point 2 about Chief Bambostic's comment on age cheating is a wrong inference to draw. The most that it suggests is that Nigerian players can't be trusted when it comes to their ages - and not the entire Nigerian community.

RudeBoy · Post by **RudeBoy** » Thu Feb 05, 2004 4:22 pm

CIC: Nigerian players can't be trusted when it comes to their ages because of their nationality or their colour? In both instances one can come to the conclusion that it is the Russian blood in the chap that makes him honest and the Nigerian blood makes him dishonest! In my opinion, Its the same sort of thing that English twat got sacked from the BBC for. I read Chief B's comments as to be Nigerian is to cheat!

cchinukw · Post by **cchinukw** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:07 am

This whole rant reminds me of an equality and diversity seminar in which the facilitator told the participants about the origin of the word nitty gritty.

The word has unpopular links with slavery. The word originally meant the place under the deck of th ship where the slaves were herded.

Omase O.

cic old boy · Post by **cic old boy** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:35 am

RB: Nigerian players can’t be trusted when it comes to their ages because;
false official documents are easy to obtain in Nigeria,
our system for recording of births and deaths is a shambles,
school records don’t help much either – I remember being in the same class with kids older than me by five years and more,
the system for developing youth players is non-existent,
and in a career with a short life span such as football there is massive financial incentive for someone to take advantage of those shortfalls.

None of these issues have anything to do with colour. Osaze’s age is more believable because of where he was born, not because there is a drop of Russian blood in him. You could say the same about John Fashanu. It ain’t the blood, it’s the system. So I still hold that your inference is the wrong one.

cchinukw · Post by **cchinukw** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 11:40 am

Osaze has a French accent.

Malandro · Post by **Malandro** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 12:04 pm

cchinukw wrote:This whole rant reminds me of an equality and diversity seminar in which the facilitator told the participants about the origin of the word nitty gritty.

The word has unpopular links with slavery. The word originally meant the place under the deck of th ship where the slaves were herded.

Omase O.

Sorry Rudeboy this is a bit off topic but in line with what cchinukw said, there are many words today that are used casually in which if people knew the origins, will not be so quick to use.

Take for instance the "reverse" racial slurs of redneck or cracker that minorites in the US use against whites.

In the days of slavery redneck was a derogatory term used by an upper class whiteman to insult a lower class white who could not afford a slave to toil for him on the field. Hence, his neck got red from toiling in the hot sun.

Cracker yet another derogatory term used by upper class whites. Lower class whites were usually assigned the dirty job of whipping the slaves if they got out of line. Hence, cracker comes from the crack of the whip.

MI5 · Post by **MI5** » Fri Feb 06, 2004 1:41 pm

Cheii well ia m not surprised at all... Rudeboy Racism and statements like that shows even among naija's they do the same thing they accuse white folks of doing. Everybody does it everyone does their own little racist and bias ways but will be the first to come and admit white folks are bigots when there are plenty on this forum....

King of the Abyss · Post by **King of the Abyss** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 7:19 am

It is all fine and dandy to intellectualize when your sense of self-worth is not on the line, but how would you feel if someone from Germany or Norway came to the US or the UK where you reside and consistently called you "Neger".

"Neger" as you can imagine sounds like "#$%$*".

Now Neger is commonly used to describe black people in both Germany and Norway, without any negative intent. But in the context of the US and Britain, it can be very offensive.
_________________

One wonders about your level of comprehension. The whole discussion has been about the variations in what is culturally acceptable. So while the German would not be assailed for using "Neger" in Germany, he certainly would be in the US. If this is where "scientific reasoning" takes you to, i really don't want to be there.

Shownoja · Post by **Shownoja** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 10:20 am

Thank God I popped into this forum, as to defend myself here.

What is this crap from Rudeboy. Are you a Nigerian? When last were you in Nigeria. How do you come to the conclusion that calling a person with mixed white and Nigerian parentage a mullato is racist or divisive. This word is in common usage in Nigeria, and you cannot tell me that you have not heard it used before.

Why will I want to racially abuse a person who plays for my fatherland is beyond me. This is taking political correctness to new levels. I see you as an illeterate to even think this way. You need to remove the rose tinted spectacles from your eyes soon before someone washes your mouth with horse manure. Phool.

omonaija · Post by **omonaija** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 12:16 pm

I feel that all these comments are all "politically incorrect". I know some people just type $@#% because they have a keyboard attached to their computers and just feel free because there is freedom of speech on this forum, accuse and curse people to their own happiness!

I think people should learn how to respect, most especially somebody you haven't meet before and be careful of what we say about others!

Scipio Africanus · Post by **Scipio Africanus** » Sat Feb 07, 2004 4:47 pm

King of the Abyss wrote:

Quoting yours truly:

It is all fine and dandy to intellectualize when your sense of self-worth is not on the line, but how would you feel if someone from Germany or Norway came to the US or the UK where you reside and consistently called you "Neger".

"Neger" as you can imagine sounds like "#$%$*".

Now Neger is commonly used to describe black people in both Germany and Norway, without any negative intent. But in the context of the US and Britain, it can be very offensive.
_________________

One wonders about your level of comprehension. <b>The whole discussion has been about the variations in what is culturally acceptable.</b> So while the German would not be assailed for using "Neger" in Germany, he certainly would be in the US.

Read Rudeboy's first post in this thread again, and hopefully you will understand the context of my response. I don't hold out much hope, though.

Let's take a closer look at this sentence from you:

The whole discussion has been about the variations in what is culturally acceptable.

No, the discussion is about the rather more practical notion of being careful not to assume that what is "culturally acceptable", to use your phrasing, in some locales, will be "culturally acceptable" in other locales.

If you are going to do some intellectual grandstanding, it helps to actually have an intellect.

So you don't see the parallel with Rudeboy's original complaint of some people on this forum using words like mulatto (according to you acceptable in Nigeria), and someone from Germany using the word "Neger" (acceptable in Germany) in the US?

I certainly don't have to wonder about your level of comprehension. No doubts there.

Finally,

If this is where "scientific reasoning" takes you to, i really don't want to be there.

Still carrying a grudge from getting trounced in that debate, eh, after all that time? Geez, come on now, carrying grudges are for bitches.

Let it go man!

cchinukw · Post by **cchinukw** » Mon Feb 09, 2004 3:26 pm

I discovered that there is a Jon Otsemebor who plays for Liverpool and is on loan to Bolton. Any low down on this guy?