Make this Jamaicans go sit down

[anointed]

Charlie Francis : If anyone is clean, it's going to be the losers.

You know that many Naija losers have tested positive, right and you say we don't know anything about Track & Field.

[okjazz]

I have always maintained that I don’t know if Bolt is doping. I will continue to watch him until conclusive evidence is provided. I see no signs that Bolt is doping and most people who know the sport do not have viable suspicions.

Im not following this long winded argument but the above is correct and sounds like a sensible position to hold. It is quite frankly daft to cite Lewis and conte's insinuations as credible evidence against Bolt. What about people like Michael Johnson and countless others who also know (and are still relevant) to the sport who have nothing but praise for him? Its also a daft to suggest theres a media conspiracy to protect bolt. The minute any credible evidence surfaces to suggest he is doping there'll be a race to break such a massive story. Ofcourse there's always a hint of suspicion around amazing feats in track and field. Until legitimate allegations (i.e not the blanket accusations of bad belle or discredited folks like carl lewis and conte) emerge he deserves full credit for his amazing achievements.

I am glad others see that CIC is full of hot air. He likes to look down his nose at anyone who disagrees with him yet he has the most shallow of arguments by anyone on CE. This man has absolutely no clue about athletics. He has not provided a shred of proof to bolster any of his assertions about Bolt.

1. He claims that Bolt is guilty. When challenged for evidence he admits he has none then says "I am waiting for evidence"
2. He claims that Balco caused a reduction in funding among NCAA schools then gives the example of NY Tech. This is so laughable because NYT never been a track powerhouse. Not only that but but they have never had any notable runners. They are not even in division 1. They run in division II and have never won anything in division II. How a school that has never won anything in division II is a powerhouse, only CIC can explain.
2b. He claims that the Balco scandal reduced funding for schools thus reducing scholarships. This is laughable because schools are still offering athletics scholarships to runners from all over the world. No American news outlet has reported that the Balco scandal had anything to do with funding of college sports.
3. He proudly cites people Victor Conte. Neither Conte nor anyone CIC has cited actually have any proof of Bolt doping. They are just gossipping and speculating. But CIC proudly cites them because he loves gossip. He does not like to dwell in facts. Just gossip. Again not a single thing CIC has said about Bolt is factual.
4. Notice that nothing CIC has said on this thread about Bolt is factual. Its all gossip and speculation.
5. He claims that he knew all along that Marion Jones was on dope. Yet there is no evidence that he knew. Just trying to look clever after the fact
6. Predicting that all athletes are on dope without providing is just a self servingf statement. It is used by people who like to look clever after the fact, so that when one athlete is busted, you can puff out your chest and say "You see I told you all athletes are doping". Only clueless people are impressed by people who predict things without providing facts. Heck I could easily predict that Brazil will win the next world cup based on nothing but guesswork and gossip. Then if Brazil wins I can dig up the old thread and puff out my chest saying "You see I told you so"

[rock3t]

Charlie Francis : If anyone is clean, it's going to be the losers.

You know that many Naija losers have tested positive, right and you say we don't know anything about Track & Field.

key word Einstein "if anyone". drugs will not make you run fast. the combination of talent, coaching, mental strength, confidence, program, drugs, will create a champion. The amount of training a top sprinter will do is gruesome. top athlete now days train up to 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week. Ben johnson who was a beast had the most sophisticated drug/strength training program at his time and he used to stay on the track and weight room some days up to 8 hours a day! steroids just make you train harder and recover faster, hence the unfair advantage. There can only be 1 winner, one champion. Your obviously not that smart!

[rock3t]

I have always maintained that I don’t know if Bolt is doping. I will continue to watch him until conclusive evidence is provided. I see no signs that Bolt is doping and most people who know the sport do not have viable suspicions.

Im not following this long winded argument but the above is correct and sounds like a sensible position to hold. It is quite frankly daft to cite Lewis and conte's insinuations as credible evidence against Bolt. What about people like Michael Johnson and countless others who also know (and are still relevant) to the sport who have nothing but praise for him? Its also a daft to suggest theres a media conspiracy to protect bolt. The minute any credible evidence surfaces to suggest he is doping there'll be a race to break such a massive story. Ofcourse there's always a hint of suspicion around amazing feats in track and field. Until legitimate allegations (i.e not the blanket accusations of bad belle or discredited folks like carl lewis and conte) emerge he deserves full credit for his amazing achievements.

I am glad others see that CIC is full of hot air. He likes to look down his nose at anyone who disagrees with him yet he has the most shallow of arguments by anyone on CE. This man has absolutely no clue about athletics. He has not provided a shred of proof to bolster any of his assertions about Bolt.

1. He claims that Bolt is guilty. When challenged for evidence he admits he has none then says "I am waiting for evidence"
2. He claims that Balco caused a reduction in funding among NCAA schools then gives the example of NY Tech. This is so laughable because NYT never been a track powerhouse. Not only that but but they have never had any notable runners. They are not even in division 1. They run in division II and have never won anything in division II. How a school that has never won anything in division II is a powerhouse, only CIC can explain.
2b. He claims that the Balco scandal reduced funding for schools thus reducing scholarships. This is laughable because schools are still offering athletics scholarships to runners from all over the world. No American news outlet has reported that the Balco scandal had anything to do with funding of college sports.
3. He proudly cites people Victor Conte. Neither Conte nor anyone CIC has cited actually have any proof of Bolt doping. They are just gossipping and speculating. But CIC proudly cites them because he loves gossip. He does not like to dwell in facts. Just gossip. Again not a single thing CIC has said about Bolt is factual.
4. Notice that nothing CIC has said on this thread about Bolt is factual. Its all gossip and speculation.
5. He claims that he knew all along that Marion Jones was on dope. Yet there is no evidence that he knew. Just trying to look clever after the fact
6. Predicting that all athletes are on dope without providing is just a self servingf statement. It is used by people who like to look clever after the fact, so that when one athlete is busted, you can puff out your chest and say "You see I told you all athletes are doping". Only clueless people are impressed by people who predict things without providing facts. Heck I could easily predict that Brazil will win the next world cup based on nothing but guesswork and gossip. Then if Brazil wins I can dig up the old thread and puff out my chest saying "You see I told you so"

[return2k2]

They can't all of a sudden be the fastest people in the world. Something aint right.

Maybe they have some sort of training regimen that they found out works for them. Maybe they've got some sort of formula for training. It doesn't have to be steroids.

What about the East Africans who keep winning the long distance runs. Do they take steroids as well?

[mate]

Strictly speaking, sure, there is no direct evidence that Bolt is using drugs. But the circumstantial evidence sure seems compelling to me. The same patterns of performance and circumventing testing we've seen in the past seem to be all too familiar here. I especially keep thinking back to Marion Jones.

If I had to bet all my money on this, yeah, you'd catch me laying it all down that Bolt is like most of the other athletes who use drugs as part of their athletic development.

Cycling. Swimming. Athletics. Wrestling. Weight lifting. I just don't see how you can stand to compete anymore if you don't at least equalize the drug factor.

Cheers, Mate

[soothsayer]

I wonder....
If all of them are doping then its possible that no one can run sub 10seconds therefore the whole thing about west-african genes is a myth.. Is that why the white guys find it so difficult to run sub 10seconds????

[mate]

What about the East Africans who keep winning the long distance runs. Do they take steroids as well?

This might be explained by distribution. East Africa simply might have a much larger pool of athletes who opt for middle and long distance running. If I remember correctly, Ethiopia and Kenya alone have half the population of the US. I don't know for sure, but my guess is that many more East Africans are attempting distance running compared to the competition, maybe even in absolute numbers.

Moreover, on another thread, I presented some data that indicated how US high school middle and long distance times actually degraded during the 80s and 90s from the 60s and 70s. Only in the last decade have US high school boys started to come back up. Again, I don't know for sure, but it would be interesting to explore why this happened, if it is some combination of relatively less athletes opting for distance running, as the US has so many other paths in life.

As to drugs here, I'm on the fence on this one. I don't think drugs help as much for endurance sports, no? Will drugs give you significant endurance when it comes to running a few kms? It might, as top 10 finishers in the women's 5k were within 15 seconds of one another.

Again, if I had to bet the farm...I'd still bet that they're all juicing.

Cheers, Mate

[mate]

I wonder....
If all of them are doping then its possible that no one can run sub 10seconds therefore the whole thing about west-african genes is a myth.. Is that why the white guys find it so difficult to run sub 10seconds????

It would be interesting to test how much faster are the times because of drugs. Unfortunately, this is a pipe dream.



As I've said before, I'm unsure whether or not certain populations have a genetic advantage in any physical discipline. In certain egregious cases, it sure looks that way. For example, no Eskimo is going to win a 100m sprint or super-heavyweight lifting competition.

I lean towards saying blacks are faster runners whereas whites are faster swimmers. But I'm ultimately unsure...and certainly haven't looked into it closely enough to even remotely consider my opinion informed.

Cheers, Mate

[anointed]

Charlie Francis : If anyone is clean, it's going to be the losers.

You know that many Naija losers have tested positive, right and you say we don't know anything about Track & Field.

key word Einstein "if anyone". drugs will not make you run fast. the combination of talent, coaching, mental strength, confidence, program, drugs, will create a champion. The amount of training a top sprinter will do is gruesome. top athlete now days train up to 6 hours a day 5-6 days a week. Ben johnson who was a beast had the most sophisticated drug/strength training program at his time and he used to stay on the track and weight room some days up to 8 hours a day! steroids just make you train harder and recover faster, hence the unfair advantage. There can only be 1 winner, one champion. Your obviously not that smart!

Wake me when you say something or even anything.

Key word ko, jam lock ni. You quoted a whole statement and when taken to the cleaners, you started to look for your bunch of keys, rambling about things you know next to nothing about.

If it were gymnastics we were talking about, where gymnasts take weight reducing/slimming pills, would I have said made any remarkable input in the discouse if I said those pills dont make you sommersault better? And you think you said something spectacular when you wrote "drugs will not make you run fast". What kind of mumu is this guy? You probably think you are discussing T&F with a rookie.

[wale1974]

So it begs the question if every prominent athlete is doping, then why are the Jamaicans excelling others. Afterall the doping will only be a leveller (if everyone is doing it). How then do we explain the Jamaican dominance

They are all juiced up. Some more than others - esp those in countries where random testing is practically non-existent.

end of debate, i guess they test naija runners like yankee runners then

[ohsee]

Abeg Bolt is on juice. I don't want to get into this argument because I have been having it since 1986. Even when Big Ben was caught in 1988, my Jamo friends continued to insist it was a conspiracy until Ben finally confessed. The belief in Santa Claus is not rational. People WANT to believe in fairy tales. cic, why do you waste your time? The mass of testimonial evidence will not convince them. The fact that earlier "world records" were set by juicers does not clue people in that people who go even faster are likely to be on juice too.

[King Futcha]

Abeg Bolt is on juice. I don't want to get into this argument because I have been having it since 1986. Even when Big Ben was caught in 1988, my Jamo friends continued to insist it was a conspiracy until Ben finally confessed. The belief in Santa Claus is not rational. People WANT to believe in fairy tales. cic, why do you waste your time? The mass of testimonial evidence will not convince them. The fact that earlier "world records" were set by juicers does not clue people in that people who go even faster are likely to be on juice too.

were you on the juice on October 1, 1975? and when you were in 'the best shape of your life' on October 2, 1980?

[Cellular]

Anyone that knows the sport knows that they ALL juice up....

Too much $$$$ at stake.

The Jamos even encourage it via "Don't Ask Don't Tell" policy. The US are angry because their (US) dope screening is too tough on them and they have to go an extra mile to mask/hide the juice.

If you ain't cheating you ain't trying....

[Tbite]

Even if Bolt was juicing...he still is the fastest man in history.

If he is juicing....then he is simply juicing to cancel the unfair advantage that others might have...if he didn't juice.

In a clean system....I think Bolt would have all the records & medals that he has today.

Looking at his progression as a youth, I have no doubt in mind that Bolt is genuinely ahead of everyone else.

Like I said, even if he is juicing, he is only doing it because Gatlin is doing it, because Gay is doing it, because Bailey, because Powell is doing it.

there is no way on earth that an athlete like Bolt would take drugs to have an advantage, he would simply take it to cancel the advantage from others. Bolt truly is the fastest man of All time.

[Raptor]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... _athletics

[achuzia-the-air-raid]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_do ... _athletics

USA takes the lead and they have the guts to be calling out other people. They really need to check out Michael Phelps and his team.

[ohsee]

Abeg Bolt is on juice. I don't want to get into this argument because I have been having it since 1986. Even when Big Ben was caught in 1988, my Jamo friends continued to insist it was a conspiracy until Ben finally confessed. The belief in Santa Claus is not rational. People WANT to believe in fairy tales. cic, why do you waste your time? The mass of testimonial evidence will not convince them. The fact that earlier "world records" were set by juicers does not clue people in that people who go even faster are likely to be on juice too.

were you on the juice on October 1, 1975? and when you were in 'the best shape of your life' on October 2, 1980?

Yes Virginia Smoking Joe NFutcha, there is a Santa Claus and his name is Bolt.

[ohsee]

Even if Bolt was juicing...he still is the fastest man in history.

If he is juicing....then he is simply juicing to cancel the unfair advantage that others might have...if he didn't juice.

In a clean system....I think Bolt would have all the records & medals that he has today.

Looking at his progression as a youth, I have no doubt in mind that Bolt is genuinely ahead of everyone else.

Like I said, even if he is juicing, he is only doing it because Gatlin is doing it, because Gay is doing it, because Bailey, because Powell is doing it.

there is no way on earth that an athlete like Bolt would take drugs to have an advantage, he would simply take it to cancel the advantage from others. Bolt truly is the fastest man of All time.

Spoken like a true shriner. Bros we don't know. We just know he won't be running 9.64 or whatever crazy time he is posting.

[blueangel]

Hey what about Phelps ?
May be he is Juiced up too ?

[mate]

Hey what about Phelps ?
May be he is Juiced up too ?

Maybe? I can't see how he would compete if drugs weren't a part of his regimen.

Call me cynical, but as I said before, for me, these Olympics are entertainment, not a competitive endeavor. The spirit of competition and sportsmanship has been utterly flouted with all the drugs, crass commercialism, and even arrogance by so many winners.

I'll watch it and be entertained. I'll even take pride in achievements and efforts by teams and some athletes. But I've accepted that we'll never really know who's the best, especially in sports where drugs really push the bar of achievement.

Most of all, I'm not going out of my way to add money to the marketing of winners, some whom act like jack-azzes, as opposed to being humble and conveying a sense of privilege for being allowed to do something so luxurious. Hats off to all the good souls, but there are too many jerks.

The US women's football team and even Bolt come to mind. Few know how to be winners...especially when winning is so suspicious today.

Cheers, Mate

[Comrade Machel]

Hey what about Phelps ?
May be he is Juiced up too ?

Maybe? I can't see how he would compete if drugs weren't a part of his regimen.

Call me cynical, but as I said before, for me, these Olympics are entertainment, not a competitive endeavor. The spirit of competition and sportsmanship has been utterly flouted with all the drugs, crass commercialism, and even arrogance by so many winners.

I'll watch it and be entertained. I'll even take pride in achievements and efforts by teams and some athletes. But I've accepted that we'll never really know who's the best, especially in sports where drugs really push the bar of achievement.

Most of all, I'm not going out of my way to add money to the marketing of winners, some whom act like jack-azzes, as opposed to being humble and conveying a sense of privilege for being allowed to do something so luxurious. Hats off to all the good souls, but there are too many jerks.

The US women's football team and even Bolt come to mind. Few know how to be winners...especially when winning is so suspicious today.

Cheers, Mate

Same here his triumphalism is wearing thin for me. I didn't like his celebratory lap of honour with Blake after the relay relegating Nesta Carter and the other guy into the background. It was a team effort but Bolt and Blake hogged the spotlight

As i said i think Bolt is clean. But part me doubts it because these bunch of athletes are almost 3 seconds faster than the 1900 ones and that is highly suspect to me

[amafolas]

If you look back to the 1987 world championships for example, you will note that virtually all the womens medals were won by Eastern Europeans most likely doped on androgenic drugs. Even the US was locked out of the medals.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1987_World ... 7s_results

HAHA the west wouldnt have it. They came back doped up too, fare more than east germans. Ben johnson, Flo Jo, Karl Lewis. By the time Seoul rolled around the following year, the west had caught up on the steroid tip.
Left to me, all WR from the 80's should be thrown out or at least have an asterisk next to them.