Phelps' Medal Count Undermined By Swimming Medal Inflation

[goke313]

Phelps' Olympic accomplishments are fantastic, but his 21 medals in virtually any other sport would equate to less than a dozen.

Aug 3, 2012 - There's a lot of talk about Michael Phelps being the greatest Olympian of all time. His 21 Olympic medals are a record, and his compilation of them is an impressive feat. But the medal inflation in swimming devalues that medal count so much that there's no way to point to the sheer number and claim he's the greatest Olympian ever.

It's long bothered me that swimming hands out so many medals. At the 200-meter distance, Phelps' specialty, they hand out five individual gold medals. In 2008, three of his medals came at this same distance, as he swam the 200-meter freestyle, the 200-meter butterfly and the 200-meter medley.

For the same distance that Usain Bolt got one medal, Phelps got three.

Consider a sport like basketball. These athletes have to play several games just to qualify for the playoffs. Then they have to win several more games to earn one single medal. By swimming's standards, there would be medals handed out for games won, free-throw percentage, most points, most assists, most rebounds and there would be a shuttle race at the end for kicks.

Or how about tennis? These athletes have to win five matches to earn a medal. These matches are often grueling, going on for one to two hours in the hot sun. They spend their entire Olympic Games busting their #$% for a shot at one gold medal.

In Beijing, for less than an half-hour of swimming, Phelps got eight.

Phelps has rarely been the fastest person in the pool at any distance. At only one distance in one Olympics was Phelps the fastest person. In 2008, he had the fastest 200m time of any swimmer at any stroke. Why? Because the freestyle is the fastest way to get from point A to point B. Every other Olympic games, he wasn't the fastest person at any distance.

Do you think if Phelps was trying to evade a great white shark he'd break into the butterfly? Like Dressage in Equestrian, he mastered the form of an artistic swim stroke, and he's taken advantage of it.

Swimmers will say I don't understand the sport, that I don't understand the nuances of each stroke and how difficult it is to master two of them. I understand it just fine. I realize there are different skills, different muscles, used for each event. I understand the butterfly is very different from the backstroke.

But imagine if track and field took swimming's lead and created distinct ways to get to the finish line, confusing the measurement of simply being the fastest.

We'd have the 100-meter "skip," where athletes have to skip down the track as fast as possible. The 400-meter "backwards run" would be a crowd favorite, as athletes put their quads - and spatial awareness - to the test, running backwards around the track. My personal choice would be the 200-meter "cartwheel," where athletes would have to do cartwheels all the way around until they crossed the finish line.

If track and field went the direction of swimming, Carl Lewis would have 30 Olympic medals.

I'm not sure why swimming stopped where it did. Just think of the fun possibilities. How about an underwater-only event, where athletes had to be submerged for 25 meters at a time? Or a corkscrew stroke where they had to spin in the water as they swam? And what on earth ever happened to the doggy-paddle? Let's just inflate the whole thing so there are so many strokes, nearly everybody gets a medal! I can do the doggy-paddle with the best of them!

There's an easy way to fix all of this and keep the strokes: hold only one event at each distance, the medley. To compete, you have to master all of the strokes that swimmers hold so dear. With that, Phelps' Olympic medal total would stand around 10, which is right where he stands in Olympic stature ... somewhere in the vicinity of the great Carl Lewis. And that, as I said, is an incredible accomplishment.

Greatest swimmer of all time? Probably. Greatest Olympian of all time? Not on your life.

I'll take the incredible Italian fencer Valentina Vezzali over Phelps' accomplishments any day. She's won an individual fencing medal in five straight Olympics, including three straight golds. She's also led her team to three golds and a bronze (the team event wasn't included in 2004, or she would have had another gold). She's won more Olympic fencing medals than all but four countries!

Just don't get me started on gymnastics...


http://www.sbnation.com/london-olympics ... -inflation


pretty much the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about

[kalamashaka]

Exactly what I was saying

[soothsayer]

Phelps' Olympic accomplishments are fantastic, but his 21 medals in virtually any other sport would equate to less than a dozen.

Aug 3, 2012 - There's a lot of talk about Michael Phelps being the greatest Olympian of all time. His 21 Olympic medals are a record, and his compilation of them is an impressive feat. But the medal inflation in swimming devalues that medal count so much that there's no way to point to the sheer number and claim he's the greatest Olympian ever.

It's long bothered me that swimming hands out so many medals. At the 200-meter distance, Phelps' specialty, they hand out five individual gold medals. In 2008, three of his medals came at this same distance, as he swam the 200-meter freestyle, the 200-meter butterfly and the 200-meter medley.

For the same distance that Usain Bolt got one medal, Phelps got three.

Consider a sport like basketball. These athletes have to play several games just to qualify for the playoffs. Then they have to win several more games to earn one single medal. By swimming's standards, there would be medals handed out for games won, free-throw percentage, most points, most assists, most rebounds and there would be a shuttle race at the end for kicks.

Or how about tennis? These athletes have to win five matches to earn a medal. These matches are often grueling, going on for one to two hours in the hot sun. They spend their entire Olympic Games busting their #$% for a shot at one gold medal.

In Beijing, for less than an half-hour of swimming, Phelps got eight.

Phelps has rarely been the fastest person in the pool at any distance. At only one distance in one Olympics was Phelps the fastest person. In 2008, he had the fastest 200m time of any swimmer at any stroke. Why? Because the freestyle is the fastest way to get from point A to point B. Every other Olympic games, he wasn't the fastest person at any distance.

Do you think if Phelps was trying to evade a great white shark he'd break into the butterfly? Like Dressage in Equestrian, he mastered the form of an artistic swim stroke, and he's taken advantage of it.

Swimmers will say I don't understand the sport, that I don't understand the nuances of each stroke and how difficult it is to master two of them. I understand it just fine. I realize there are different skills, different muscles, used for each event. I understand the butterfly is very different from the backstroke.

But imagine if track and field took swimming's lead and created distinct ways to get to the finish line, confusing the measurement of simply being the fastest.

We'd have the 100-meter "skip," where athletes have to skip down the track as fast as possible. The 400-meter "backwards run" would be a crowd favorite, as athletes put their quads - and spatial awareness - to the test, running backwards around the track. My personal choice would be the 200-meter "cartwheel," where athletes would have to do cartwheels all the way around until they crossed the finish line.

If track and field went the direction of swimming, Carl Lewis would have 30 Olympic medals.

I'm not sure why swimming stopped where it did. Just think of the fun possibilities. How about an underwater-only event, where athletes had to be submerged for 25 meters at a time? Or a corkscrew stroke where they had to spin in the water as they swam? And what on earth ever happened to the doggy-paddle? Let's just inflate the whole thing so there are so many strokes, nearly everybody gets a medal! I can do the doggy-paddle with the best of them!

There's an easy way to fix all of this and keep the strokes: hold only one event at each distance, the medley. To compete, you have to master all of the strokes that swimmers hold so dear. With that, Phelps' Olympic medal total would stand around 10, which is right where he stands in Olympic stature ... somewhere in the vicinity of the great Carl Lewis. And that, as I said, is an incredible accomplishment.

Greatest swimmer of all time? Probably. Greatest Olympian of all time? Not on your life.

I'll take the incredible Italian fencer Valentina Vezzali over Phelps' accomplishments any day. She's won an individual fencing medal in five straight Olympics, including three straight golds. She's also led her team to three golds and a bronze (the team event wasn't included in 2004, or she would have had another gold). She's won more Olympic fencing medals than all but four countries!

Just don't get me started on gymnastics...


http://www.sbnation.com/london-olympics ... -inflation


pretty much the elephant in the room no one wants to talk about

well its true, and its clear based on the amount of time it takes across the Olympics... it goes on for ever. I will be interested to know what percentage of medals won by united states is from swimming.

[tfco]

But imagine if track and field took swimming's lead and created distinct ways to get to the finish line, confusing the measurement of simply being the fastest.

We'd have the 100-meter "skip," where athletes have to skip down the track as fast as possible. The 400-meter "backwards run" would be a crowd favorite, as athletes put their quads - and spatial awareness - to the test, running backwards around the track. My personal choice would be the 200-meter "cartwheel," where athletes would have to do cartwheels all the way around until they crossed the finish line.

If track and field went the direction of swimming, Carl Lewis would have 30 Olympic medals.
.

merci bcoup

[folem]

Swimming distances are not directly equivalent to Running distances.

200m on Track is equivalent to 800m in the pool.

The Olympics is more about individual sports, and not team sports, although there are team events in many individual sports.

There are Preliminaries in all sports.

[JuJuMan]

Swimming distances are not directly equivalent to Running distances.

200m on Track is equivalent to 800m in the pool.

The Olympics is more about individual sports, and not team sports, although there are team events in many individual sports.

There are Preliminaries in all sports.

Well the 800M track specialists do not have 5 individual medal events in their distance, neither do 200, or 100, or whatever the equivalent is

[ohenhen1]

The kid is a down to earth guy, normally I don't support Americans in anything, but I will make an exception. He is greatness, and a cool guy too.

[Coach]

Whether there is/is not a plethora of medals to be won at the pool for same distance events, fact remains, one doesn't get the pick of the bounty without winning their race.

[folem]

There are more events in Athletics than in Swimming.

If we want to do direct comparisons with the swimming styles of Freestyle, Backstroke, Breaststroke, Fly & Medley then in athletics we have Straight races similar to freestyle from 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m. There is no backstroke equivalent because of the oval shape but for this purpose, let's use race walk from 20km, 50km. The breaststroke will be similar to hurdles from 100m, 110m, 400m, 3000m steeplechase. Fly will be similar to Throws from Hammer, Javelin, Discuss, Shot Put. Medley will be similar to the combined events of Heptathlon, Decathlon. There are Marathon events in both sports.

Athletics also have Jumps from High Jump, Long Jump, Triple Jump, Pole Vault. There are 47 Gold medals in Athletics and only 34 in Swimming.

[tfco]

There are more events in Athletics than in Swimming.

If we want to do direct comparisons with the swimming styles of Freestyle, Backstroke, Breaststroke, Fly & Medley then in athletics we have Straight races similar to freestyle from 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m. There is no backstroke equivalent because of the oval shape but for this purpose, let's use race walk from 20km, 50km. The breaststroke will be similar to hurdles from 100m, 110m, 400m, 3000m steeplechase. Fly will be similar to Throws from Hammer, Javelin, Discuss, Shot Put. Medley will be similar to the combine events of Heptathlon, Decathlon. There are Marathon events in both sports. Athletics also have Jumps from High Jump, Long Jump, Triple Jump, Pole Vault.

There are 47 Gold medals in Athletics and only 34 in Swimming.

you are so off base it is not even funny.

you are comparing swimming styles (where one can excel in freestyle, back, breast, IM) to Track events AND Field events?

[JuJuMan]

There are more events in Athletics than in Swimming.

If we want to do direct comparisons with the swimming styles of Freestyle, Backstroke, Breaststroke, Fly & Medley then in athletics we have Straight races similar to freestyle from 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m. There is no backstroke equivalent because of the oval shape but for this purpose, let's use race walk from 20km, 50km. The breaststroke will be similar to hurdles from 100m, 110m, 400m, 3000m steeplechase. Fly will be similar to Throws from Hammer, Javelin, Discuss, Shot Put. Medley will be similar to the combine events of Heptathlon, Decathlon. There are Marathon events in both sports. Athletics also have Jumps from High Jump, Long Jump, Triple Jump, Pole Vault.

There are 47 Gold medals in Athletics and only 34 in Swimming.

you are so off base it is not even funny.

you are comparing swimming styles (where one can excel in freestyle, back, breast, IM) to Track events AND Field events?

Of all the arguments for swimming that was the most ridiculous I have ever heard
we might as well tell the high jumpers to go and do gymnastics if they want more medals

[folem]

There are more events in Athletics than in Swimming.

If we want to do direct comparisons with the swimming styles of Freestyle, Backstroke, Breaststroke, Fly & Medley then in athletics we have Straight races similar to freestyle from 100m, 200m, 400m, 800m, 1500m, 5000m, 10000m. There is no backstroke equivalent because of the oval shape but for this purpose, let's use race walk from 20km, 50km. The breaststroke will be similar to hurdles from 100m, 110m, 400m, 3000m steeplechase. Fly will be similar to Throws from Hammer, Javelin, Discuss, Shot Put. Medley will be similar to the combine events of Heptathlon, Decathlon. There are Marathon events in both sports. Athletics also have Jumps from High Jump, Long Jump, Triple Jump, Pole Vault.

There are 47 Gold medals in Athletics and only 34 in Swimming.

you are so off base it is not even funny.

you are comparing swimming styles (where one can excel in freestyle, back, breast, IM) to Track events AND Field events?

You think its easy?

Even Phelps was mostly a Fly expert but competed in the combined events of the Medley to beat the others. Apart from the relays, he has only 1 individual Gold in Freestyle event.

[tfco]

not saying it's easy....read the article by the OP, and the thread title.

let's have 50m, 4x50m relay, 100, 4x100m relay, 200m, 4x200m relay, 300m, 4x300m relay - then we can compare.

But imagine if track and field took swimming's lead and created distinct ways to get to the finish line, confusing the measurement of simply being the fastest.

We'd have the 100-meter "skip," where athletes have to skip down the track as fast as possible. The 400-meter "backwards run" would be a crowd favorite, as athletes put their quads - and spatial awareness - to the test, running backwards around the track. My personal choice would be the 200-meter "cartwheel," where athletes would have to do cartwheels all the way around until they crossed the finish line.

If track and field went the direction of swimming, Carl Lewis would have 30 Olympic medals.

[folem]

not saying it's easy....read the article by the OP, and the thread title.

let's have 50m, 4x50m relay, 100, 4x100m relay, 200m, 4x200m relay, 300m, 4x300m relay - then we can compare.

But imagine if track and field took swimming's lead and created distinct ways to get to the finish line, confusing the measurement of simply being the fastest.

We'd have the 100-meter "skip," where athletes have to skip down the track as fast as possible. The 400-meter "backwards run" would be a crowd favorite, as athletes put their quads - and spatial awareness - to the test, running backwards around the track. My personal choice would be the 200-meter "cartwheel," where athletes would have to do cartwheels all the way around until they crossed the finish line.

If track and field went the direction of swimming, Carl Lewis would have 30 Olympic medals.

There is 50m and 300m events in Athletics, but they are not Olympic events just like the 25m Swimming event and some others are not in the Olympics. It is not easy to do direct comparisons as the demands of racing in water is different to racing on land. The Oval shape of the track obviously will not allow for some events. The only relay event I think can be improvised is 4x100m Hurdles. 50m on track is like 200m in the pool.

[Molue Conductor]

nothing stops Bolt form participating in the 100m Hurdles and long jump

[Riversboy]

nothing stops Bolt form participating in the 100m Hurdles and long jump

I agree about the hurdles, but the long jump is NOT a RUNNING discipline, and the whole point of the article is that there are fewer RUNNING medals at a particular distance than SWIMMING medals. Saying Usain could do the long jump is akin to saying Phelps could do the synchronized swimming*.

RB.

*I don't know if there's a Men's Synchronized Swimming event, but before some ITK comes to point out there isn't, we may replace "synchronized swimming" in my post with "high dive" or "water polo".

[analyzer]

If it is that easy, how come no one before Phelps has achieved the same medal counts.. And I can bet we will not see any one near pHelps for a while..
Wetin happen to the Lotche guy everyone was raving about..

Medals might looked inflated but person still has to prove himself and Phelps has done just that... Una think say e easy... Do , butterfly, freestyle, different distances with different endurance requirements.. Like I said, how come not a lot of swimmers are anywhere close to Phelp's in terms of achievement... Remember, this is over 3 olympics (Since Athens 2004).. The only thing I can say helps pad his medal count is the relay events..


@RB, did Marion Jones not win like 5 medals in sydney 2000 including bronze in long jump.. If Bolt wants, he can go try them all... There is 400M and 800M he can definitely give it a go..

[Riversboy]

If it is that easy, how come no one before Phelps has achieved the same medal counts.. And I can bet we will not see any one near pHelps for a while..

Nobody (in their right minds) is saying Phelps's accomplishment is easy. Phelps is a Great. The argument is that the Greats of other disciplines do not have the same opportunity to go for a transcendent medal haul because they do not have the same spread of events as swimming.

Medals might looked inflated but person still has to prove himself and Phelps has done just that... Una think say e easy... Do , butterfly, freestyle, different distances with different endurance requirements..

Agreed. But the point is, perhaps if a sprinter or a distance runner had a chance to do different styles of running with different requirements....

@RB, did Marion Jones not win like 5 medals in sydney 2000 including bronze in long jump.. If Bolt wants, he can go try them all...

A Sprinter can go for up to 5 sprint medals (100 and 400 plus their relays, and the 200). That's it in terms of sprinting. Counting the Long jump as an "opportunity" for sprinters to medal is always going to be dodgy, especially when the argument is "SWIMMING has more medals than RUNNING", and long jump is neither.

There is 400M and 800M he can definitely give it a go..

Whether it is the pool or the track, racing athletes have ranges in which by pure anatomy they most specialize in order to be competitive at Olympic level. 800 is not a sprint. Phelps can't compete at every distance (like 1500m Free), and neither can bolt.

RB.

[folem]

nothing stops Bolt form participating in the 100m Hurdles and long jump

I agree about the hurdles, but the long jump is NOT a RUNNING discipline, and the whole point of the article is that there are fewer RUNNING medals at a particular distance than SWIMMING medals. Saying Usain could do the long jump is akin to saying Phelps could do the synchronized swimming*.

RB.

*I don't know if there's a Men's Synchronized Swimming event, but before some ITK comes to point out there isn't, we may replace "synchronized swimming" in my post with "high dive" or "water polo".

Like you alluded to in the small print, only women do Synchronized Swimming. Synchronised swimming is like Gymnastics and is a different sport.

Water polo is like handball in the pool, it is a ball game. Diving is actually a different sport in the Olympics. I really think Bolt can win 400m if he tries. He is a phenomenon, he can break Michael Johnson's WR.

[analyzer]

RB,
I definitely see the points you are trying to make.. And I do accept that can't use Jumping to take style include for Running medals.

But looking at those max of 5 sprint medals (100m , 200m, 400m and then relays for 400m and 200m)..
Phelps 8 gold medals in Beijing.. 5 of them IMO are arguably directly comparable to the 5 Sprint medals.. Referring to his 100m and 200m butterfly, 200M freestyle and the two relays.. The extra 3 he won were in another relay and then a 200M and 400M "individual medley"...

And Yes I do definitely agree that swimming presents more opportunities to rack up medals if someone is crazy enough to try and be the best in all styles + all the distances from 50M to 400M.. But arguing against the undermining of Phelps medals
Question 1. Is an individual medley (200M and 400M) not comparable to say an 800M race or a hurdle sprint/race????
Question 2: Do you contest that Phelps did not adjust himself to mastering the individual medley which comes with different requirements/specialties in the same manner that argubaly a runner/sprinter can adjust him or herself to master the hurdle/800M running??? The GB hepathalon Chic Ennis did both hurdles and 800M running....

All I am saying is that what phelps has achieved is a "rare" feat even if the swimming medal counts are adjusted (I doubt there is a subjective/logical way to do that) to make it comparable to athletics or even "Running"... If a runner wan push themselves they can also train for the 400M, 800M and 100M hurdle... Hurdle is the one i cannot against as needing more adjustment re requirements and training..
And no vex if this deviates away from your original argument of which sport (running vs. swimming) presents with more medal opportunities..

[folem]

RB,
I definitely see the points you are trying to make.. And I do accept that can't use Jumping to take style include for Running medals.

But looking at those max of 5 sprint medals (100m , 200m, 400m and then relays for 400m and 200m)..
Phelps 8 gold medals in Beijing.. 5 of them IMO are arguably directly comparable to the 5 Sprint medals.. Referring to his 100m and 200m butterfly, 200M freestyle and the two relays.. The extra 3 he won were in another relay and then a 200M and 400M "individual medley"...

And Yes I do definitely agree that swimming presents more opportunities to rack up medals if someone is crazy enough to try and be the best in all styles + all the distances from 50M to 400M.. But arguing against the undermining of Phelps medals
Question 1. Is an individual medley (200M and 400M) not comparable to say an 800M race or a hurdle sprint/race????
Question 2: Do you contest that Phelps did not adjust himself to mastering the individual medley which comes with different requirements/specialties in the same manner that argubaly a runner/sprinter can adjust him or herself to master the hurdle/800M running??? The GB hepathalon Chic Ennis did both hurdles and 800M running....

All I am saying is that what phelps has achieved is a "rare" feat even if the swimming medal counts are adjusted (I doubt there is a subjective/logical way to do that) to make it comparable to athletics or even "Running"... If a runner wan push themselves they can also train for the 400M, 800M and 100M hurdle... Hurdle is the one i cannot against as needing more adjustment re requirements and training..
And no vex if this deviates away from your original argument of which sport (running vs. swimming) presents with more medal opportunities..

Phelps is really a Fly expert but can compete at freestyle. He has only one Olympic gold at an individual freestyle event. There is only one 50m event in the Olympics.

The IM is a combined event having all the 4 styles.

[Molue Conductor]

for those arguing against inflation of medals for swimmers, these are the top 5 individual medal winners in this year's Olympics
all swimmers

Code: Select all

	
PHELPS Michael
Swimming
4	2	0	
FRANKLIN Missy
Swimming
4	0	1
SCHMITT Allison
Swimming
3	1	1
LOCHTE Ryan
Swimming
2	2	1
COUTTS Alicia
Swimming
1	3	1

[goke313]

for those arguing against inflation of medals for swimmers, these are the to 5 individual medal winners in this Olympics
all swimmers

Code: Select all

	
PHELPS Michael
Swimming
4	2	0	
FRANKLIN Missy
Swimming
4	0	1
SCHMITT Allison
Swimming
3	1	1
LOCHTE Ryan
Swimming
2	2	1
COUTTS Alicia
Swimming
1	3	1

debate should be shut off these facts alone