Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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1naija
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by 1naija »

ohsee wrote:
Dr. Wazobia wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Gudo wrote:Bolt is clean take that to the bank. The rest of them are suspect though.
Bolt is on something. All top ten sprinters are on something. You cannot compete if you are not.

@ cic, Bolt may never be caught. As I have said elsewhere, the only way you can be caught if you are using a new drug that is designed to escape detection is if someone gives a copy to the testers AND the testers are able to develop detection tests.
Bolt will only be 'caught' when he stops being a cash cow for the big corporations. Remember when Linford Christie got 'caught' after running a race on a supposed bet? I mean, seriously.....
True. Does anyone remember that Big Ben Johnson was alleged to have been actually framed? The guy eventually told the full story, and said he was NOT on Stanozolol; he had stopped taking it for years. But he WAS on a then undetectable chemical enhancement. According to Ben and his "chemist" Charlie Francis, someone spiked Ben's urine sample with a drug he no longer used. Those two claim that the powers that be only catch those they want to catch. Rumours of Ben's steroid use were swirling for years before he was "caught."
Ben Johnson was on something big time. The funny thing is his best time on steroids was 9.8s, but bolt ran 9.58s and he is clean?
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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tfco wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
tfco wrote:
King Futcha wrote:where are the truths from 84, 92, 96, 2000, 2004, 2008 and/or 2012?
:rotf: :rotf:

...and he added '84 to the list.

Like seriously
because you gave us 88, you can go back to '60 if you'd like since time I will tell I wanted to know what happened before and after, thanks in advance...
we can start with 2012, and i will give you one athlete who was doping.

Mo Farah.

I laughed at 1984 because the USA had a systemic doping program in place - kinda like what Russia is being punished for today

At least 34 U.S. track and field athletes either tested positive or had possible positive tests during six weeks of informal testing by USOC in the spring of 1984, according to confidential USOC memos. None of the athletes was sanctioned or lost eligibility, according to USOC documents and interviews.

Athletes were informed of their positive tests and told continued use of banned drugs could result in positive tests at the U.S. Olympic Trials and Olympic Games, where violations would lead to bans from competition.

"It gave them a heads up," said Ollan Cassell, executive director of U.S. track and field's governing body from 1980 to 1997. "It let them know what was coming, what to expect."
sauce
it was a conspiracy :)
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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1naija wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Dr. Wazobia wrote:
ohsee wrote:
Gudo wrote:Bolt is clean take that to the bank. The rest of them are suspect though.
Bolt is on something. All top ten sprinters are on something. You cannot compete if you are not.

@ cic, Bolt may never be caught. As I have said elsewhere, the only way you can be caught if you are using a new drug that is designed to escape detection is if someone gives a copy to the testers AND the testers are able to develop detection tests.
Bolt will only be 'caught' when he stops being a cash cow for the big corporations. Remember when Linford Christie got 'caught' after running a race on a supposed bet? I mean, seriously.....
True. Does anyone remember that Big Ben Johnson was alleged to have been actually framed? The guy eventually told the full story, and said he was NOT on Stanozolol; he had stopped taking it for years. But he WAS on a then undetectable chemical enhancement. According to Ben and his "chemist" Charlie Francis, someone spiked Ben's urine sample with a drug he no longer used. Those two claim that the powers that be only catch those they want to catch. Rumours of Ben's steroid use were swirling for years before he was "caught."
Ben Johnson was on something big time. The funny thing is his best time on steroids was 9.8s, but bolt ran 9.58s and he is clean?
Ben was running 10.4s getting smoked by Lewis... next thing you know 9.8... Bolt was running 10 flat in his teens.
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“I am in my technical zone and I can’t hear the boos,” Domenech said.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by tfco »

^ correct.

IIRC there was a meet in Rome prior to the Olympics. Lewis won.

Ben went back to juice some more, and won the Olympics. Both were juicing during that time. So many others

Anyone associated with Bob Kersee basically.

AFCON 2024 L-O-S-E-R-S

They did not CEDIS coming
Naira Did We :rotf: :rotf:


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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by King Futcha »

tfco wrote:^ correct.

IIRC there was a meet in Rome prior to the Olympics. Lewis won.

Ben went back to juice some more, and won the Olympics. Both were juicing during that time. So many others

Anyone associated with Bob Kersee basically.
not my love Allyson Felix
Saints baby we did it
“I am in my technical zone and I can’t hear the boos,” Domenech said.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by ohsee »

King Futcha wrote:
tfco wrote:^ correct.

IIRC there was a meet in Rome prior to the Olympics. Lewis won.

Ben went back to juice some more, and won the Olympics. Both were juicing during that time. So many others

Anyone associated with Bob Kersee basically.
not my love Allyson Felix
Yoroyoro Joe! :D :taunt:
The problem with people is that they refuse to accept that EVERYBODY is doping, and you can't win if you are not. If you are in the top ten, you sure as hell are doping, or you cannot compete. But I know say na joke you dey joke, Joe, you joke of a boxer. :taunt: :D
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by tfco »

:lol: :lol:

back in the day I believed Marion Jones 100%. I always thought there was a conspiracy against her and TJ Hunter of whatever his name is.

Pity Flo Jo is not around to give her opinion on doping

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They did not CEDIS coming
Naira Did We :rotf: :rotf:


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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by King Futcha »

ohsee wrote:
King Futcha wrote:
tfco wrote:^ correct.

IIRC there was a meet in Rome prior to the Olympics. Lewis won.

Ben went back to juice some more, and won the Olympics. Both were juicing during that time. So many others

Anyone associated with Bob Kersee basically.
not my love Allyson Felix
Yoroyoro Joe! :D :taunt:
The problem with people is that they refuse to accept that EVERYBODY is doping, and you can't win if you are not. If you are in the top ten, you sure as hell are doping, or you cannot compete. But I know say na joke you dey joke, Joe, you joke of a boxer. :taunt: :D
that juice you used against Holmes clearly didn't work :taunt: :taunt:
Saints baby we did it
“I am in my technical zone and I can’t hear the boos,” Domenech said.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by cic old boy »

zee wrote:Bolt is not 'faster' than his peers but dude enjoys the advantage of.....................longer legs.
Plus the advantage of training out of competition in Jamaica where the drug-testing is a joke!
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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Not really sure why people find it hard to believe that a 6ft 5 inch tall athlete with incredible self-belief, intense training regimen, and with a defined physique like a carved statue is the fastest man on earth. We have to also look outside athletics to discern that across all sports, pro athletes are getting faster, fitter, stronger, and can perform at high intensity for longer than their predecessors.

For example, watch the Champions League qualifiers from last night. Then watch the Champions League final from 30 years ago. You will notice that elite players of yesteryear look slower, ponderous, and almost lumbering in comparison to the frekazoid athletes of today who have been trained to near perfect physical condition - by the combination of modern science, greater knowledge about nutrition, better medical treatment, and advanced training techniques. Players at qualifier level today are more athletic and fit than those playing in the final from decades ago!

The human population as a whole is evolving. Athletes are no different.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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wiseone wrote:Not really sure why people find it hard to believe that a 6ft 5 inch tall athlete with incredible self-belief, intense training regimen, and with a defined physique like a carved statue is the fastest man on earth. We have to also look outside athletics to discern that across all sports, pro athletes are getting faster, fitter, stronger, and can perform at high intensity for longer than their predecessors.

For example, watch the Champions League qualifiers from last night. Then watch the Champions League final from 30 years ago. You will notice that elite players of yesteryear look slower, ponderous, and almost lumbering in comparison to the frekazoid athletes of today who have been trained to near perfect physical condition - by the combination of modern science, greater knowledge about nutrition, better medical treatment, and advanced training techniques. Players at qualifier level today are more athletic and fit than those playing in the final from decades ago!

The human population as a whole is evolving. Athletes are no different.
The number of cheats exposed is one reason your theory is BS.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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wiseone wrote:Not really sure why people find it hard to believe that a 6ft 5 inch tall athlete with incredible self-belief, intense training regimen, and with a defined physique like a carved statue is the fastest man on earth. We have to also look outside athletics to discern that across all sports, pro athletes are getting faster, fitter, stronger, and can perform at high intensity for longer than their predecessors.

For example, watch the Champions League qualifiers from last night. Then watch the Champions League final from 30 years ago. You will notice that elite players of yesteryear look slower, ponderous, and almost lumbering in comparison to the frekazoid athletes of today who have been trained to near perfect physical condition - by the combination of modern science, greater knowledge about nutrition, better medical treatment, and advanced training techniques. Players at qualifier level today are more athletic and fit than those playing in the final from decades ago!

The human population as a whole is evolving. Athletes are no different.
wiseone, no one is saying that Bolt is not the fastest man on earth. He obviously is. What we are saying that ALL the "fastest men on earth" are taking chemical and other enhancements that enable them to train harder, be fitter, develop a defined physique like a carved statue, and consequently run at super human times. :idea: The fact that you have to take drugs and other enhancements to even be in the competition is acknowledged off the record by the athletes themselves.

By the way, the human population is NOT evolving. Yes, training and nutrition are evolving, but there is only so much they can do by themselves.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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Understood. I have a few questions though:

1) Are you saying that ALL of the advancements in athletic performance are due to drugs?

2) If your answer to question 1 above is "no", then how much of their performance is due to (a) drugs? and (b) improved training methods and nutrition?

3) If it is indeed true that Olympic athletes are taking drugs, how do we explain the enhanced performance of athletes in other sports (footballers, rugby players, cricketers etc), all of whom are much fitter and faster than their predecessors from 20-30 years ago? Or is the argument that ALL pro-athletes are cheating?

4) Modern human beings are actually evolving: http://www.livescience.com/46894-how-hu ... years.html For example, 100 years ago the average height of a male Briton was 5 feet 6 inches. Most 6ft tall men today would be considered freakishly tall had they been born 150 years ago.

5) I do not agree with your statement that "the human population is NOT evolving...training and nutrition are evolving". You are right that training and nutrition are evolving, but neglected to mention that it is that improved training and nutrition that is driving and accelerating the improvements in athletic performance.

ohsee wrote:
wiseone, no one is saying that Bolt is not the fastest man on earth. He obviously is. What we are saying that ALL the "fastest men on earth" are taking chemical and other enhancements that enable them to train harder, be fitter, develop a defined physique like a carved statue, and consequently run at super human times. :idea: The fact that you have to take drugs and other enhancements to even be in the competition is acknowledged off the record by the athletes themselves.

By the way, the human population is NOT evolving. Yes, training and nutrition are evolving, but there is only so much they can do by themselves.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by ohsee »

wiseone wrote:Understood. I have a few questions though:

1) Are you saying that ALL of the advancements in athletic performance are due to drugs?

2) If your answer to question 1 above is "no", then how much of their performance is due to (a) drugs? and (b) improved training methods and nutrition?

3) If it is indeed true that Olympic athletes are taking drugs, how do we explain the enhanced performance of athletes in other sports (footballers, rugby players, cricketers etc), all of whom are much fitter and faster than their predecessors from 20-30 years ago? Or is the argument that ALL pro-athletes are cheating?

4) Modern human beings are actually evolving: http://www.livescience.com/46894-how-hu ... years.html For example, 100 years ago the average height of a male Briton was 5 feet 6 inches. Most 6ft tall men today would be considered freakishly tall had they been born 150 years ago.

5) I do not agree with your statement that "the human population is NOT evolving...training and nutrition are evolving". You are right that training and nutrition are evolving, but neglected to mention that it is that improved training and nutrition that is driving and accelerating the improvements in athletic performance.
1) No.

2) Cannot be determined until the athletes are tested with and without drugs. However, we can infer that the performance difference is significant when we look at those who have been prevented from taking drugs. When Ben Johnson was "caught" and then tried to run without drugs, he wasn't even in the top ten despite all these advancements in training techniques.

3) Improved technique and nutrition will improve performance, but will have limits to what they can do without drugs.

4) Modern humans have not "evolved", which should involve some form of gene mutation. They have changed within the parameters of human adaptation potential. Again, there is a limit to what can be achieved without other methods like radiation, or drugs or hormones. What your link shows is adaptation, not evolution. By the way, 6ft tall men existed in ancient times--the Gauls and the Germanic tribes of Northern Europe were said to be that tall if we believe the records that have come down to us.

5) Again, training and nutrition drive changes up to a point. What that point is in sprinting is yet to be discovered. The experts suspect it will cluster around 10 secs for the 100 meter sprint. It can only be known when it becomes legal to take drugs, and all the athletes are tested for nutrition, training and drugs in controlled situations.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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Ohsee, thanks for the measured replies. I do wonder why (allegations of) drug use is so prevalent in athletics more than other sports. e.g. one rarely hears of boxers, tennis players, or martial artists testing positive for drugs (even though they could enhance their performance if they used drugs).

Why does it happen in athletics more than any other sport?
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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Dem dey all juice .
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by Cellular »

They all cheat.

IOC should investigate Team GBR. To have these many medals without a government wide cheating plan? Hmmmmmmm!


Anyway, na awa pipul way I pity. Dem go use Veterinary drugs that a common blood analysis can detect. :(
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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ohsee wrote:
wiseone wrote:Not really sure why people find it hard to believe that a 6ft 5 inch tall athlete with incredible self-belief, intense training regimen, and with a defined physique like a carved statue is the fastest man on earth. We have to also look outside athletics to discern that across all sports, pro athletes are getting faster, fitter, stronger, and can perform at high intensity for longer than their predecessors.

For example, watch the Champions League qualifiers from last night. Then watch the Champions League final from 30 years ago. You will notice that elite players of yesteryear look slower, ponderous, and almost lumbering in comparison to the frekazoid athletes of today who have been trained to near perfect physical condition - by the combination of modern science, greater knowledge about nutrition, better medical treatment, and advanced training techniques. Players at qualifier level today are more athletic and fit than those playing in the final from decades ago!

The human population as a whole is evolving. Athletes are no different.
wiseone, no one is saying that Bolt is not the fastest man on earth. He obviously is. What we are saying that ALL the "fastest men on earth" are taking chemical and other enhancements that enable them to train harder, be fitter, develop a defined physique like a carved statue, and consequently run at super human times. :idea: The fact that you have to take drugs and other enhancements to even be in the competition is acknowledged off the record by the athletes themselves.

By the way, the human population is NOT evolving. Yes, training and nutrition are evolving, but there is only so much they can do by themselves.
Everybody uses chemicals, especially athletes in rich countries with a lot of money to burn. It just happens that some chemicals are banned while others are not. If you use the banned chemicals and get caught, that is your problem. :D
Eto’o, Ronaldinho, Deco, and Messi are like good caviar, tender pine-nuts, chemical-free sea salt, and the purest of virgin olive oils, said one of the world's greatest chefs, Ferran Adria of El Bulli restaurant, Before Barca went on to wallop Madrid 3-0 at the Bernabeu.

“I believe the target of anything in life should be to do it so well that it becomes an art. Football is like that. When I watch Barcelona, it is art” — Arsène Wenger, August 2009
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

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Cellular wrote:They all cheat.

IOC should investigate Team GBR. To have these many medals without a government wide cheating plan? Hmmmmmmm!


Anyway, na awa pipul way I pity. Dem go use Veterinary drugs that a common blood analysis can detect. :(
I did not want to be the first to say this (otherwise, I would be accused of hating Britain and loving Putin) :rotf: :rotf:
The Germans and Australians have already insinuated that something is suspicious about the British cycling team.
Eto’o, Ronaldinho, Deco, and Messi are like good caviar, tender pine-nuts, chemical-free sea salt, and the purest of virgin olive oils, said one of the world's greatest chefs, Ferran Adria of El Bulli restaurant, Before Barca went on to wallop Madrid 3-0 at the Bernabeu.

“I believe the target of anything in life should be to do it so well that it becomes an art. Football is like that. When I watch Barcelona, it is art” — Arsène Wenger, August 2009
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by Dr. Wazobia »

Vincent. wrote:
Cellular wrote:They all cheat.

IOC should investigate Team GBR. To have these many medals without a government wide cheating plan? Hmmmmmmm!


Anyway, na awa pipul way I pity. Dem go use Veterinary drugs that a common blood analysis can detect. :(
I did not want to be the first to say this (otherwise, I would be accused of hating Britain and loving Putin) :rotf: :rotf:
The Germans and Australians have already insinuated that something is suspicious about the British cycling team.
Bro, I am suspicious of the cycling team. It will all come out. It always does....
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by Cellular »

Dr. Wazobia wrote:
Vincent. wrote:
Cellular wrote:They all cheat.

IOC should investigate Team GBR. To have these many medals without a government wide cheating plan? Hmmmmmmm!


Anyway, na awa pipul way I pity. Dem go use Veterinary drugs that a common blood analysis can detect. :(
I did not want to be the first to say this (otherwise, I would be accused of hating Britain and loving Putin) :rotf: :rotf:
The Germans and Australians have already insinuated that something is suspicious about the British cycling team.
Bro, I am suspicious of the cycling team. It will all come out. It always does....
I think Putin/Russia will go on a fishing expedition to show it is not just them that cheats.

We have not heard the last of the doping Olympics.
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by YUJAM »

They all dope IMO
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Re: Make this Jamaicans go sit down

Post by Dr. Wazobia »

Cellular wrote:
Dr. Wazobia wrote:
Vincent. wrote:
Cellular wrote:They all cheat.

IOC should investigate Team GBR. To have these many medals without a government wide cheating plan? Hmmmmmmm!


Anyway, na awa pipul way I pity. Dem go use Veterinary drugs that a common blood analysis can detect. :(
I did not want to be the first to say this (otherwise, I would be accused of hating Britain and loving Putin) :rotf: :rotf:
The Germans and Australians have already insinuated that something is suspicious about the British cycling team.
Bro, I am suspicious of the cycling team. It will all come out. It always does....
I think Putin/Russia will go on a fishing expedition to show it is not just them that cheats.

We have not heard the last of the doping Olympics.
Oga, when countries become obsessed with the medal table then you know you're on a slippery slope. The BBC pundits have been so biased in their commentary that it makes a mockery of what the Olympics represent.

The Olympics are not or, dare I say, should not be an expression of a country's economic or political strength. Otherwise, we are no better than the East Germans and Soviet Machine of the 1970s/80s.

It is true that there are dopers in Russia but not all Russian athletes are cheats. We, in the west, are too quick to mount our moral high horse to the detriment of true fairness and equality.
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