Make this Jamaicans go sit down

[cic old boy]

Thanks for the correction but question has not been answered.

Read the reply again. Why would Heredia testify against Bolt if he is on the payroll?

[okjazz]

When you share a coach, facilities, etc with an athlete, it means you are doing a lot together – legal and illegal.

This is just the latest of your bogus statements for which you have absolutely no proof. I challenged you to provide evidence that all dopers share their doping secrets with team-mates and as usual you provided none.

Ato Boldon publicly stated that his coach John Smith gave drugs to some athletes but did not give it to him and others. Evidence suggests that the training partners of Marion Jones, Roger Clemence, Petit etc did not know about their doping activities. The fact that so many examples of team-mates not knowing exists shows that your statement is rubbish.

Using Ben Johnson as an example is lame. That was back in the 1980s when athletes did not testify against each other. And clearly Ben Jonson did not share ALL his doping secrets with these athletes you mentioned. None of them won anything. In any case you haven’t provided anything that proves that Ben Johnson shared his doping secrets with team-mates.

You say that 3 of Bolts team-mates have doped. This is only 3 out of approximately 40 plus runners who belong to Bolts racing club. It means nothing.

There is no evidence that Bolt has ties to Heredia. No credible news outlet reporting this as a fact. Only rumour mongering bloggers. Even you have admitted that blogs are not reliable. People who believe such blogs are the same kind of people who believe Obama is a secret muslim who was born in Kenya. I am sure you are proud of being associated with such people.

The fact that Jamaica does not have its own anti doping body is of no consequence because the out of competition testing done by USADA and WADA is good enough.

That Jamaican college coach you quoted is completely clueless about US college athletics. Anyone who thinks that NY tech was once a track power or thinks college track and field is dependent on sponsors has no idea what he is talking about. He knows nothing about the US.

No one denies that the media conspires to hide certain stories. But the idea that every journalist, every editor and every news outlet is part of the same conspiracy to protect Bolt is laughable. Each newspaper and each editor has a different agenda. Some are clearly not interested in protecting bolt.

Conte is not a credible person no matter how much you try to cleanse him. In any case he made those statements in 2008. This is 4 years later and the IAAF is using testing methods that are even more advanced than what he suggested e.g . The Biological passport

You have not provided a shred of evidence to prove Bolt is on dope
None to prove that all runners are on dope
None to prove that all journalist and news outlets are protecting Bolt. Others have laughed at this.
None to prove that any funding has been cut from US athletics due to Balco
You havent provided examples were a sportsman was nailed based on guilt by association.

And now
You have no proof that athletes always share doping secrets
And
You have already admitted that you really don’t have any evidence. You can backpedal as much as you want but your credibility is shot.

Once again nothing new from you. I am waiting patiently for you to provide even a shred of credible proof.

[kalamashaka]

Answer me this, what are the chances that Bolt is NOT on juice if FOUR prior record holders with slower times, were on dope? The logical answer is that Bolt is on dope, not that he is an "outlier" or that he is a "freak of nature." That is like continuing to hope and believe in Santa Claus after your four older brothers tell you that they caught Daddy putting presents in their stockings in past Christmases.

Ohsee, this logic is a bit iffy.

[cic old boy]

This is just the latest of your bogus statements for which you have absolutely no proof. I challenged you to provide evidence that all dopers share their doping secrets with team-mates and as usual you provided none.

Ato Boldon publicly stated that his coach John Smith gave drugs to some athletes but did not give it to him and others. Evidence suggests that the training partners of Marion Jones, Roger Clemence, Petit etc did not know about their doping activities. The fact that so many examples of team-mates not knowing exists shows that your statement is rubbish.

Using Ben Johnson as an example is lame. That was back in the 1980s when athletes did not testify against each other. And clearly Ben Jonson did not share ALL his doping secrets with these athletes you mentioned. None of them won anything. In any case you haven’t provided anything that proves that Ben Johnson shared his doping secrets with team-mates.

You say that 3 of Bolts team-mates have doped. This is only 3 out of approximately 40 plus runners who belong to Bolts racing club. It means nothing.

There is no evidence that Bolt has ties to Heredia. No credible news outlet reporting this as a fact. Only rumour mongering bloggers. Even you have admitted that blogs are not reliable. People who believe such blogs are the same kind of people who believe Obama is a secret muslim who was born in Kenya. I am sure you are proud of being associated with such people.

The fact that Jamaica does not have its own anti doping body is of no consequence because the out of competition testing done by USADA and WADA is good enough.

That Jamaican college coach you quoted is completely clueless about US college athletics. Anyone who thinks that NY tech was once a track power or thinks college track and field is dependent on sponsors has no idea what he is talking about. He knows nothing about the US.

No one denies that the media conspires to hide certain stories. But the idea that every journalist, every editor and every news outlet is part of the same conspiracy to protect Bolt is laughable. Each newspaper and each editor has a different agenda. Some are clearly not interested in protecting bolt.

Conte is not a credible person no matter how much you try to cleanse him. In any case he made those statements in 2008. This is 4 years later and the IAAF is using testing methods that are even more advanced than what he suggested e.g . The Biological passport

You have not provided a shred of evidence to prove Bolt is on dope
None to prove that all runners are on dope
None to prove that all journalist and news outlets are protecting Bolt. Others have laughed at this.
None to prove that any funding has been cut from US athletics due to Balco
You havent provided examples were a sportsman was nailed based on guilt by association.

And now
You have no proof that athletes always share doping secrets
And
You have already admitted that you really don’t have any evidence. You can backpedal as much as you want but your credibility is shot.

Once again nothing new from you. I am waiting patiently for you to provide even a shred of credible proof.

This guy, you reason like a five year old. When 3 team-mates of Bolt are busted, it is an indication that Bolt could be on drugs too. It is not conclusive proof that he is on drugs. “Challenging” me to show that ALL team-mates share doping secrets is just evidence of your own daftness and inability to think logically.

So if Ato Boldon said John Smith never gave him drugs, it is now gospel? Even though Bolden tested positive for ephedrine in 2001? So if some training partners claim they didn’t know that Marion Jones was doping, it is now gospel that they didn’t know? The fact is that training partners share a lot together. When one is busted for doping, it increases the likelihood that others in the camp were doing it too.

Your attempted rebuttal of the Ben Johnson case is pathetic. There was an inquiry in Canada in which the evidence came out of the extent of Charlie Francis’s doping of the athletes under his wing, including Johnson. This is an indication that sharing a coach can mean sharing doping. It is evidence pointing in the direction that Glen Mills could be supervising the doping of athletes under his wing if 3 of his athletes have failed tests. You can attempt to deny this circumstantial evidence, but it only provides evidence of your folly.

3 of Bolt’s colleagues failing dope tests means something, esp when one of them is his close friend Blake. It means that their coach Glen Mills could be supervising a doping programme. Dismissing this sort of thing off hand in the light of Charlie Francis, Balco, etc is pure ostrich behaviour.

Why do you like to distort what people write? It is evidence that you are desperate in convincing yourself that Bolt is clean. You are like a child furiously trying to convince himself that Santa truly exists. I did not suggest blogs are unreliable. This is what I said in reply to your claim that they are not:

OK, bloggers all lie and you rely on the mainstream media for the truth. Which is why the venerable NYT was claiming Saddam had WMD, while bloggers were claiming it was all lies. It is why it was a blogger that broke the story of the stain in Monica Lewinsky's dress long b/4 the mainstream got onboard.

To claim that Jamaica not having its own doping agency is of no consequence is evidence of your ignorance. If IAAF/WADA testing were “good enough” why do you have independent anti-doping bodies in the US, UK, etc? I quoted this earlier from the WaPo:

Part of the suspicions around Bolt result from different drug-testing standards in the Caribbean. While Jamaica’s team doctor is a member of track’s governing body’s anti-doping commission, Jamaica and other Caribbean islands don’t have an independent anti-doping federation like the United States Anti-Doping Association.

The Jamaican coach is a product of the US college system. He is an expert on the issue and you are not!
So you now admit that the media can conspire to suppress a story? We are making progress! Nobody said every media outlet is part of the conspiracy. The guy from CBS suggested the independent media should not have the sort of sponsorship constraints that the mainstream faces.

Conte is an expert in beating the system. His evidence is critical for the same reasons that the evidence of a drug supplier like Heredia was critical in nailing Balco.

Repeating that I have not provided evidence is evidence that you don’t know what “evidence” is.

We are still waiting for evidence of where I said I had no evidence. Or do you think you are exempt from your own requirement for evidence?

[Damunk]

On the eve of the 100m Final, Bolt said:

“I’m well aware that if there was ever a hint of a drug scandal against me it could finish athletics. That won’t happen.

"My attitude towards drugs has always been to stay away from them, whether performance-enhancing or recreational. I don’t even like supplements because of my fear one might show up on the banned list.

“Yet, however many times I’m tested — and I’ve probably been tested more than any other sportsman on the planet since breaking the world record — that is still not enough to satisfy some people.
“The testers can form a queue outside my house if they want. The more often they test me and other athletes and show we are clean the better it is for the sport.”

I'd much rather focus on the biomechanics of Usain Bolt's sprinting than grand conspiracy theories of doping. Isnt it blatantly obvious that Bolt doesn't even physically fit the norm for all the great sprinters we have seen down the decades? That alone should cause some people to take a step bank and say 'Hmmmmm, hold on a minute....'

Like I said before, to believe that there is a limit to the speed attainable by the human species (and to believe that we have achieved that limit today, just because we happen to be alive and around today) sounds even more naive than refusing to believe Bolt is juiced up. It is not only naive, it is intellectually arrogant.

[Riversboy]

I'd much rather focus on the biomechanics of Usain Bolt's sprinting than grand conspiracy theories of doping. Isnt it blatantly obvious that Bolt doesn't even physically fit the norm for all the great sprinters we have seen down the decades? That alone should cause some people to take a step bank and say 'Hmmmmm, hold on a minute....'

Like I said before, to believe that there is a limit to the speed attainable by the human species (and to believe that we have achieved that limit today, just because we happen to be alive and around today) sounds even more naive than refusing to believe Bolt is juiced up. It is not only naive, it is intellectually arrogant.

What we are seeing with bolt is perhaps akin to what happened in high jump when new techniques sprang up. I have never seen a sprinter with legs as long as bolt able have as quick a stride cycle as him. I said so even before beijing. I would really like to get a look at what's going on with his quads and hamstrings during a race.

Nobody can right now rule out new drugs and masking agents, but it is also very clear that Bolt's physiology is somehow overcoming the disadvantages a taller frame gives sprinters, allowing him to cash in on the advantages. The reasons why need to be studied. My late father was an anatomist who researched musculo-skeletal differences in populations, and we used to speculate a lot about Bolt.

RB.

[cic old boy]

"He makes me skeptical," Pound, the former head of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) said on Thursday afternoon. "It's short of suspicion: I would never go out and say I'm suspicious of his results, but they're so remarkable that even though he is 6-foot-whatever-he-is and runs like a cat rather than a tank in the old steroidal model, the improvement is so far off the curve that you have to wonder if it's entirely natural. I hope it is -- but you wonder. That's the price you pay for allowing this doping to get out of control."


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/o ... z246BqHqEt

[folem]

What we are seeing with bolt is perhaps akin to what happened in high jump when new techniques sprang up. I have never seen a sprinter with legs as long as bolt able have as quick a stride cycle as him. I said so even before beijing. I would really like to get a look at what's going on with his quads and hamstrings during a race.

Nobody can right now rule out new drugs and masking agents, but it is also very clear that Bolt's physiology is somehow overcoming the disadvantages a taller frame gives sprinters, allowing him to cash in on the advantages. The reasons why need to be studied. My late father was an anatomist who researched musculo-skeletal differences in populations, and we used to speculate a lot about Bolt.

RB.

Usain Bolt is only 7cm taller than Carl Lewis.

[okjazz]

CIC

No matter how you twist, guilt by association does not fly. You are going to have to try much harder. You still havent given a single example where an athlete has been busted due to guilt by association. Surely if what you are saying made sense, by now some athletes would have been busted by that. But they are not because it is twisted logic.

You are now shamelessly trying to suggest that coach Glenn Mills has been doping his athletes. And once again you provide no evidence. Just more rumour mongering and gossipping as usual. This is nothing new because your main tactic here is to connect unrelated events then heap lie after lie to try and connect the two.

Trying to use Ben Johnson as proof is lame. First off there is no evidence anywhere that Ben Johnson shared his doping secrets with other athletes. Saying that Charlie Francis gave his runners dope does not mean that Ben Johnson shared his doping tips. You are simply stretching the truth and grasping for straws. Why you are at it I guess you will also tell us that because of systematic doping happened in East Germany , Bolt must also be doping. How you manage to shamelessly connect non related events is amazing.

Ato Bold was sanctioned not banned, The reason is that ephedrine is found in many cold remedies. Its a mild stimulant that does not do much to affect performance. Secondly Boldon has not been challenged by anybody. The fact that Maurice Green and his coach remained silent means they knew Boldon was telling the truth. Its funny you accuse Ato Boldon of being unreliable yet your key witness is a charlattan/criminal/jailbird called victor conte. Boldon is credible enough to be given a job by the top news outlet in the USA unlike that thug Conte who is basically unemployable and not believed by anyone besides you.


- You use tortured logic to accuse people like Glenn Mills with no proof , only shameless lies
- You suggest that Charlie Francis giving dope to runners means it is likely that Bolt is sharing doping secrets with team-mates. This is what you think can convict Bolt.
- You trot out goofy conspiracy theories like the "all journalists are protecting Bolt" a silly idea which has been brushed aside as extremely daft by others on this thread
- Your main witness is a convict who makes no qualms about lying. To make matters worse you are posting text from 2008 which is outdated.
- Worst of all you havent provided evidence for anything you've posted here. It has been all based on telling lies, stretching the truth, grasping at straws and after all this you still have no evidence and still furiously trying to backtrack from your admission that you have no evidence.

[okjazz]

"He makes me skeptical," Pound, the former head of the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) said on Thursday afternoon. "It's short of suspicion: I would never go out and say I'm suspicious of his results, but they're so remarkable that even though he is 6-foot-whatever-he-is and runs like a cat rather than a tank in the old steroidal model, the improvement is so far off the curve that you have to wonder if it's entirely natural. I hope it is -- but you wonder. That's the price you pay for allowing this doping to get out of control."


Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/o ... z246BqHqEt

I see you have been trawling the internet hard looking for non existent evidence. Sorry but this is still not evidence. Pound is still stating the obvious. Everyone wonders if Bolt is natural but nobody has any proof. Nice try but another epic fail. But keep trying.
And while you are at it, try getting a quote from the current WADA chief instead of some geriatric who has not held a post for half a decade.

Consider this statement from the CURRENT WADA chief:
David Howman, the World Anti-Doping Agency boss, responded by saying he had visited the island last year. 'Satisfactory,' was his overall verdict.
People will say anything,' he said. 'Track and field may have contributed to that kind of scepticism as unfortunately a number of outstanding athletes have tested positive, even in the recent past.
'That casts doubt on everybody who runs fast. But drugs are not the only thing that can make people run fast. Hard work and ability get the job done.
In an exclusive interview with the Guardian yesterday Howman said scepticism over the efficacy of the Jamaican Anti-Doping Commission, that began around the 2008 Olympics, was unfounded. "We have worked very hard with Jamaica since Beijing," he said from Wada's Montreal offices.

The above statements from the CURRENT Chief of WADA makes rubbish of your notion that every runner is doping.
The fact that the WADA chief is satisfied about the progress in testing Jamaican runners means all that stuff you've feverishly posting from Conte is just nonesense. Howman is the current WADA chief while Conte is a lying criminal.

[Damunk]

What we are seeing with bolt is perhaps akin to what happened in high jump when new techniques sprang up. I have never seen a sprinter with legs as long as bolt able have as quick a stride cycle as him. I said so even before beijing. I would really like to get a look at what's going on with his quads and hamstrings during a race.

Nobody can right now rule out new drugs and masking agents, but it is also very clear that Bolt's physiology is somehow overcoming the disadvantages a taller frame gives sprinters, allowing him to cash in on the advantages. The reasons why need to be studied. My late father was an anatomist who researched musculo-skeletal differences in populations, and we used to speculate a lot about Bolt.

RB.

Sorry about your late dad.
Anyway, Check out this video

http://video.mit.edu/watch/science-of-t ... olt-12042/

[cic old boy]

CIC

No matter how you twist, guilt by association does not fly. You are going to have to try much harder. You still havent given a single example where an athlete has been busted due to guilt by association. Surely if what you are saying made sense, by now some athletes would have been busted by that. But they are not because it is twisted logic.

You are now shamelessly trying to suggest that coach Glenn Mills has been doping his athletes. And once again you provide no evidence. Just more rumour mongering and gossipping as usual. This is nothing new because your main tactic here is to connect unrelated events then heap lie after lie to try and connect the two.

Trying to use Ben Johnson as proof is lame. First off there is no evidence anywhere that Ben Johnson shared his doping secrets with other athletes. Saying that Charlie Francis gave his runners dope does not mean that Ben Johnson shared his doping tips. You are simply stretching the truth and grasping for straws. Why you are at it I guess you will also tell us that because of systematic doping happened in East Germany , Bolt must also be doping. How you manage to shamelessly connect non related events is amazing.

Ato Bold was sanctioned not banned, The reason is that ephedrine is found in many cold remedies. Its a mild stimulant that does not do much to affect performance. Secondly Boldon has not been challenged by anybody. The fact that Maurice Green and his coach remained silent means they knew Boldon was telling the truth. Its funny you accuse Ato Boldon of being unreliable yet your key witness is a charlattan/criminal/jailbird called victor conte. Boldon is credible enough to be given a job by the top news outlet in the USA unlike that thug Conte who is basically unemployable and not believed by anyone besides you.


- You use tortured logic to accuse people like Glenn Mills with no proof , only shameless lies
- You suggest that Charlie Francis giving dope to runners means it is likely that Bolt is sharing doping secrets with team-mates. This is what you think can convict Bolt.
- You trot out goofy conspiracy theories like the "all journalists are protecting Bolt" a silly idea which has been brushed aside as extremely daft by others on this thread
- Your main witness is a convict who makes no qualms about lying. To make matters worse you are posting text from 2008 which is outdated.
- Worst of all you havent provided evidence for anything you've posted here. It has been all based on telling lies, stretching the truth, grasping at straws and after all this you still have no evidence and still furiously trying to backtrack from your admission that you have no evidence.

You are incapable of witnessing your own embarrassment. Nobody said Bolt is “guilty by association”. The point is that doping by athletes in his camp under Glen Mills raises doubts about Bolt being clean. The Ben Johnson/Charlie Francis saga shows how doping was widespread under the latter’s wing. When 3 athletes under Glen Mills are doping, it is an indication we may have a Charlie Francis scenario. You can play the ostrich all you like, but sensible people would recognise why the smell of suspicion hovers around Bolt.

You can split hairs over whether Ben Johnson shared doping tips or whether Charlie Francis administered the dope. The issue is that athletes under Charlie Wilson were using the same methods, legal and illegal. So you must be an ostrich to dismiss the fact that 3 athletes testing positive for dope all coached by Bolt’s coach, suggests Bolt is likely to be on the juice too.

There was systemic doping in East Germany. Balco exposed systemic doping in the US. Do you think only East Germany had systemic doping? How many major athletes need to be busted in the US b/4 you accept the systemic nature of the problem? Do you think the likes of Michael Johnson were clean? Do you think doping in the US was a case of a few bad apples? The Dubin Inquiry in Canada exposed systemic doping there too. Only ostriches believe there isn’t systemic doping in Jamaica, in the face of 3 athletes from the same camp testing positive, no independent anti-doping body, etc.

Almost every athlete busted comes up with the “something in my cold syrup” cock and bull. What’s funny is that you are fronting like a man who only acts with evidence and you are brandishing a possibly fictitious letter as evidence that athletes in the same camp are not aware of what others are up to. Boldon’s agent claimed his athlete denied writing the letter.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/olympi ... -IAAF.html

So getting a job with a top news outlet in the US means Boldon is credible??? Maurice Greene worked for Eurosport during the Olympics!

There is nothing “tortured” about the logic that if 3 athletes were doping under Glen Mills, he must have been involved in it. If he is involved, it is more likely that Bolt is doping too. Evidence from Charlie Francis should enlighten the ignorant like you about a coach’s involvement in his charges’ doping programme. In fact, the tortured logic is in your position that Glen Mills’ athletes just went rogue by themselves leaving their coach and Bolt blissfully unaware of what they were doing!

You must think it helps your case to distort my claims about the corporate media into “all journalists are protecting Bolt”. Your failure to understand my point, even after it had been repeated by the guy from CBS, exposes your shallowness.

Victor Conte is an expert in cheating the system. It is a well-used tactic in law enforcement to use crooks to catch other crooks. Dismiss the evidence from Conte at your own peril.

You continue to demonstrate you don’t know what “evidence” means and you continue to make claims about me that you can’t back with evidence. My posts are here in black and white. Care to provide the evidence that I said I had no evidence?

[cic old boy]

I see you have been trawling the internet hard looking for non existent evidence. Sorry but this is still not evidence. Pound is still stating the obvious. Everyone wonders if Bolt is natural but nobody has any proof. Nice try but another epic fail. But keep trying.
And while you are at it, try getting a quote from the current WADA chief instead of some geriatric who has not held a post for half a decade.

Consider this statement from the CURRENT WADA chief:
David Howman, the World Anti-Doping Agency boss, responded by saying he had visited the island last year. 'Satisfactory,' was his overall verdict.
People will say anything,' he said. 'Track and field may have contributed to that kind of scepticism as unfortunately a number of outstanding athletes have tested positive, even in the recent past.
'That casts doubt on everybody who runs fast. But drugs are not the only thing that can make people run fast. Hard work and ability get the job done.
In an exclusive interview with the Guardian yesterday Howman said scepticism over the efficacy of the Jamaican Anti-Doping Commission, that began around the 2008 Olympics, was unfounded. "We have worked very hard with Jamaica since Beijing," he said from Wada's Montreal offices.

The above statements from the CURRENT Chief of WADA makes rubbish of your notion that every runner is doping.
The fact that the WADA chief is satisfied about the progress in testing Jamaican runners means all that stuff you've feverishly posting from Conte is just nonesense. Howman is the current WADA chief while Conte is a lying criminal.

Another dumb post like the one in which you quoted Seb Coe! What do you expect the head of WADA to say? That the cheats are winning? Even the man undermines your position! He said the sport has contributed to scepticism. He said outstanding athletes have tested positive. He said this casts doubts on everybody who runs fast. You have not been acting like a man who doubts Bolt! You have been spent a lot of time pretending to be an ostrich!

[cic old boy]

And while you are at it, try getting a quote from the current WADA chief instead of some geriatric who has not held a post for half a decade.

Wrong again!

Pound, who retired as head of WADA in 2008 but remains on its board as the IOC's representative.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2012/o ... z246BqHqEt

[okjazz]

The only person who has embrassed himself on this thread is you. You have not convinced a single person and your posts have been dismissed as daft and air headed by others.

It is ridiculous to suggest that Glen Mills has anything to do with his athletes doping. What makes you think that athletes always get dope from their coach ? Marion Jones got her dope from Victor Conte. Will you also point an accusing finger at her coach even though she clearly got her dope from others ? Dwain Chambers by his own admission got drugs from Conte not from his coach.

Insinuating that the coach is responsible for his athletes doping is just another pathetic attempt by you to make a case for something where the evidence clearly does not exist. Aside from being tortured logic, no judge on this planet would accept it as evidence.

To suggest that Charlie Francis doping his athletes means Glenn Mills is weak. Based on that kind of warped logic

The only people who believe there is systemic doping in Jamaica ate pathetic gossipers like you. You’ve spent this entire thread posting absolute nonsense without offering a shred of proof. You can continue posting these lies as long as you want but you are not convincing anyone because all you have done on this thread is gossip like market woman. You don’t have the intelligence needed to actually go out , get some evidence and construct a cogent argument for anything you say.

As far as I am concerned , Boldon is far more credible that that criminal thug you have been quoting all along. Ephedrine is a mild stimulant that does not result in a suspension from IAAF. In any case it does not matter.

Your made the point that the only reason Bolt has not been exposed is because journalists are protecting him. This is comical argument that has been dismiised as daft by everyone. The idea that every news outlet is protecting Bolt is stupid when you consider how quickly they hype any insinuation by anyone that Bolt is on dope.

Victor Conte is not an expert at anything aside from being a criminal. In case whatever you posted about him is outdated and irrelevant. This is 2012. Quit using ancient history. Drug testing in Jamaica has grown in leaps and bounds.

You’ve clearly failed miserably in you pathetic attempts to convince anyone about things for which you have no evidence. All you have done on this thread is gossip.

.
I am still waiting for you to provide even a single shred of evidence. Absence of which confirms you status as a market place gossiper

[okjazz]

I see you have been trawling the internet hard looking for non existent evidence. Sorry but this is still not evidence. Pound is still stating the obvious. Everyone wonders if Bolt is natural but nobody has any proof. Nice try but another epic fail. But keep trying.
And while you are at it, try getting a quote from the current WADA chief instead of some geriatric who has not held a post for half a decade.

Consider this statement from the CURRENT WADA chief:
David Howman, the World Anti-Doping Agency boss, responded by saying he had visited the island last year. 'Satisfactory,' was his overall verdict.
People will say anything,' he said. 'Track and field may have contributed to that kind of scepticism as unfortunately a number of outstanding athletes have tested positive, even in the recent past.
'That casts doubt on everybody who runs fast. But drugs are not the only thing that can make people run fast. Hard work and ability get the job done.
In an exclusive interview with the Guardian yesterday Howman said scepticism over the efficacy of the Jamaican Anti-Doping Commission, that began around the 2008 Olympics, was unfounded. "We have worked very hard with Jamaica since Beijing," he said from Wada's Montreal offices.

The above statements from the CURRENT Chief of WADA makes rubbish of your notion that every runner is doping.
The fact that the WADA chief is satisfied about the progress in testing Jamaican runners means all that stuff you've feverishly posting from Conte is just nonesense. Howman is the current WADA chief while Conte is a lying criminal.

Another dumb post like the one in which you quoted Seb Coe! What do you expect the head of WADA to say? That the cheats are winning? Even the man undermines your position! He said the sport has contributed to scepticism. He said outstanding athletes have tested positive. He said this casts doubts on everybody who runs fast. You have not been acting like a man who doubts Bolt! You have been spent a lot of time pretending to be an ostrich!

What an idiotic post. This is coming from a person who likes to quote people like Carl Lewis who obviously has an axe to grind against Bolt. This is a man who is a known doper yet can get on his high horse to criticize Bolt while saying nothing about the US athletes. In case you don’t know, d#$% Pound whom you like to quote was the previous WADA chairman. The only difference is that he is a geriatric who has been out of the picture for 5 years and therefore does not have a clue.

d#$% Howman has actually been to Jamaica. Those clowns you keep quoting like Conte have never been to Jamaica and are actually clueless about the level of testing that happens there.


You are just bitter because the current Chairman of WADA has rubbished your claims about all athletes being on dope . He has also rubbished any claims that dope testing in Jamaica is insuffient.

d#$% Howman cannot be a cheer leader. WADA is not interested in protecting anybody. Why would they be ?
The fact

[okjazz]

I see now why CIC likes that geriactric d#$% Pound who has not held a real post in years.
d#$% Pound apparently has a penchant for making unfounded claims and not providing proof. He is a gossiper and gosssipers like each others company

Discussing the National Hockey League in November 2005, Pound said, “you wouldn’t be far wrong if you said a third of hockey players are gaining some pharmaceutical assistance."[3] Pound would later admit that he completely invented the figure.[4] Both the NHL and NHLPA have denied the claims, demanding Pound provide evidence rather than make what they term unsubstantiated claims.

http://www.rtbot.net/Richard_Pound

[Mr. Piffington]

What in holy feck is the point of this argument? IMHO both okjazz and CIC make good points and are both correct, it just seems to me that you're both attacking what you perceive the other is trying to say rather than what they're actually saying. CIC believes that Bolt is more than likely doping and based on the circumstantial evidence it's a strong argument, okjazz believes that nobody except Bolt, his coach, his chemist, and God are the only people that truly know whether Bolt is doping or not, both positions aren't wrong per se.

[cic old boy]

The only person who has embrassed himself on this thread is you. You have not convinced a single person and your posts have been dismissed as daft and air headed by others.

It is ridiculous to suggest that Glen Mills has anything to do with his athletes doping. What makes you think that athletes always get dope from their coach ? Marion Jones got her dope from Victor Conte. Will you also point an accusing finger at her coach even though she clearly got her dope from others ? Dwain Chambers by his own admission got drugs from Conte not from his coach.

Insinuating that the coach is responsible for his athletes doping is just another pathetic attempt by you to make a case for something where the evidence clearly does not exist. Aside from being tortured logic, no judge on this planet would accept it as evidence.

To suggest that Charlie Francis doping his athletes means Glenn Mills is weak. Based on that kind of warped logic

The only people who believe there is systemic doping in Jamaica ate pathetic gossipers like you. You’ve spent this entire thread posting absolute nonsense without offering a shred of proof. You can continue posting these lies as long as you want but you are not convincing anyone because all you have done on this thread is gossip like market woman. You don’t have the intelligence needed to actually go out , get some evidence and construct a cogent argument for anything you say.

As far as I am concerned , Boldon is far more credible that that criminal thug you have been quoting all along. Ephedrine is a mild stimulant that does not result in a suspension from IAAF. In any case it does not matter.

Your made the point that the only reason Bolt has not been exposed is because journalists are protecting him. This is comical argument that has been dismiised as daft by everyone. The idea that every news outlet is protecting Bolt is stupid when you consider how quickly they hype any insinuation by anyone that Bolt is on dope.

Victor Conte is not an expert at anything aside from being a criminal. In case whatever you posted about him is outdated and irrelevant. This is 2012. Quit using ancient history. Drug testing in Jamaica has grown in leaps and bounds.

You’ve clearly failed miserably in you pathetic attempts to convince anyone about things for which you have no evidence. All you have done on this thread is gossip.

I am still waiting for you to provide even a single shred of evidence. Absence of which confirms you status as a market place gossiper

This is very funny. When did readers here appoint you spokesman to decide whether they are convinced by my arguments? Just b/c you have chosen to be an ostrich and carry on like a child refusing to accept that Santa doesn’t exist, doesn’t mean that everybody is on the same fairytale page as you.

You even reason like a child! My claim that Glen Mills must be involved in his athletes’ doping doesn’t mean that he supplies the dope! Trevor Graham, Marion Jones’s coach, was involved in the doping programme, with Conte as the supplier. It defies belief that a coach would not be involved in the doping of his athletes. Dwain Chambers’ coach Remi Korchemny worked with Balco! You are totally clueless!

You claimed there was systemic doping in East Germany. I said it wasn’t just in East Germany. The doping is systemic in the US. You seem to think it is not in Jamaica. So Jamaica is just an island of innocents in a world of drug cheats! With such child-like reasoning it is no wonder you imagine Glen Mills played no part in the doping programme of 3 of his athletes. The evidence from Charlie Francis, Trevor Graham, Remi Korchemny, John Smith, etc demonstrates that coaches are deeply involved in their athletes’ doping. So you gotta be as dumb as a doorknob to imagine that Glen Mills was not involved in the doping of the 3 athletes that got caught, or that those 3 are just renegades.

Of course, “as far as you are concerned” Boldon is credible. The problem has always been that being an ostrich your concern is not far enough, with your head buried in sand and your stubborn refusal to see what is above ground!

Let me help you out again with this guy’s perfect summary of my media argument:

Independent minds covering the Olympics have a responsibility as healthy skeptics. Those working for corporate partners may not have the freedom to tell the truth to viewers, listeners or readers, but those who are not are indeed obligated to do so.
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/08/12/ ... u-know-it/

What bit of the above don’t you understand?

Victor Conte’s criminality is precisely b/c of his expertise in doping! You once again demonstrate the daftness of your argument by acknowledging he is a criminal but not an expert! He has also been talking recently about Bolt’s “drug ties”. Did you not claim that a major news outlet had to report about Bolt working with Heredia b/4 you believed it? Is the NY Daily News good enough for you?

Bolt, meanwhile, has worked recently with Angel Hernandez, the trainer formerly known as Angel (Memo) Heredia. Hernandez was a key government witness in the BALCO case against track coach Trevor Graham. Hernandez testified during Graham’s 2008 trial that he provided banned substances to disgraced Olympians Marion Jones, Tim Montgomery and other athletes. In a 2008 interview with The New York Times, Hernandez acknowledged that he had helped clients use performance-enhancing drugs and avoid detection.
http://articles.nydailynews.com/2012-08 ... fficials/2

Shall we wait for CNN, BBC, Fox News and Sesame Street News to carry this b/4 you start believing?

[cic old boy]

What an idiotic post. This is coming from a person who likes to quote people like Carl Lewis who obviously has an axe to grind against Bolt. This is a man who is a known doper yet can get on his high horse to criticize Bolt while saying nothing about the US athletes. In case you don’t know, d#$% Pound whom you like to quote was the previous WADA chairman. The only difference is that he is a geriatric who has been out of the picture for 5 years and therefore does not have a clue.

d#$% Howman has actually been to Jamaica. Those clowns you keep quoting like Conte have never been to Jamaica and are actually clueless about the level of testing that happens there.


You are just bitter because the current Chairman of WADA has rubbished your claims about all athletes being on dope . He has also rubbished any claims that dope testing in Jamaica is insuffient.

d#$% Howman cannot be a cheer leader. WADA is not interested in protecting anybody. Why would they be ?
The fact

Carl Lewis could have an agenda. Victor Conte could have an agenda. d#$% Pound could have an agenda. d#$% Howman, does he have an agenda? Seb Coe, does he have an agenda? CIC Old Boy, does he have an agenda? You see, it is possible for everybody to have an agenda. What sensible people do is test every claim for reasonableness in the light of all the circumstances, or dare I say, circumstantial evidence. Carl Lewis could be a case of sour grapes, but does that mean his claim in 2008 that Bolt ran 10.03 the year b/4 and 9.69 the next, and that this raises strong suspicions, is not valid? The boss of WADA has to protect his organisation from reputational damage. This would be the case if it is widely-believed that drug testing is a joke and athletes can easily avoid detection.

PS: d#$% Pound is still on the WADA board as the IOC rep, so is not "out of the picture" - a claim you made with total disregard for the evidence.

[cic old boy]

I see now why CIC likes that geriactric d#$% Pound who has not held a real post in years.
d#$% Pound apparently has a penchant for making unfounded claims and not providing proof. He is a gossiper and gosssipers like each others company

Discussing the National Hockey League in November 2005, Pound said, “you wouldn’t be far wrong if you said a third of hockey players are gaining some pharmaceutical assistance."[3] Pound would later admit that he completely invented the figure.[4] Both the NHL and NHLPA have denied the claims, demanding Pound provide evidence rather than make what they term unsubstantiated claims.

http://www.rtbot.net/Richard_Pound

You would like the company of this gossip about Michael Johnson!

Marion used dope alright. The evidence is there for all to see. I also suspect Micheal Johnson.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33534&hilit=marion

[okjazz]

I see now why CIC likes that geriactric d#$% Pound who has not held a real post in years.
d#$% Pound apparently has a penchant for making unfounded claims and not providing proof. He is a gossiper and gosssipers like each others company

Discussing the National Hockey League in November 2005, Pound said, “you wouldn’t be far wrong if you said a third of hockey players are gaining some pharmaceutical assistance."[3] Pound would later admit that he completely invented the figure.[4] Both the NHL and NHLPA have denied the claims, demanding Pound provide evidence rather than make what they term unsubstantiated claims.

http://www.rtbot.net/Richard_Pound

You would like the company of this gossip about Michael Johnson!

Marion used dope alright. The evidence is there for all to see. I also suspect Micheal Johnson.

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=33534&hilit=marion

You cant even read. I have said 100 times that I have no problem with those who suspect Bolt. At this point everyone is suspect. I never said I know with certainty that MJ is doping. You are the one who seems to be sure that Bolt is doping and fail to provide any evidence. If you look down your nose at others and insist with certainty that Bolt is doping then you better provide evidence. So far you havent. You are nothing but a gossip. A gossip is a person who tries to present rumour as fact.

[okjazz]

Carl Lewis could have an agenda. Victor Conte could have an agenda. d#$% Pound could have an agenda. d#$% Howman, does he have an agenda? Seb Coe, does he have an agenda? CIC Old Boy, does he have an agenda? You see, it is possible for everybody to have an agenda. What sensible people do is test every claim for reasonableness in the light of all the circumstances, or dare I say, circumstantial evidence. Carl Lewis could be a case of sour grapes, but does that mean his claim in 2008 that Bolt ran 10.03 the year b/4 and 9.69 the next, and that this raises strong suspicions, is not valid? The boss of WADA has to protect his organisation from reputational damage. This would be the case if it is widely-believed that drug testing is a joke and athletes can easily avoid detection.

PS: d#$% Pound is still on the WADA board as the IOC rep, so is not "out of the picture" - a claim you made with total disregard for the evidence.

And what exactly would Howman’s agenda be ?
WADA is tasked with busting people who dope. They have to justify the money they are paid by busting dopers. If they dont then all those who donate to WADA will stop donating. So why would Howman be interested in protecting Jamaicans ?
As for Carl Lewis , if he bothered to do any research he would find out that prior to 2008, Bolt never used to do the 100m. Throughout his youth and early career he had been a 200m and 400m runner. You cant have a good 100m time if you don’t run that distance at major competitions. Also, all his coaches have attested to the fact that Bolt never really applied himself until Tyson Gay humiliated him at the 2007 world championships. Bolt had mostly gotten by without hardwork and thus was never motivated. These are facts that all track fans know. Too bad CIC and his buddy Carl Lewis don’t even bother to do research.