Cybereagles

Watching Morocco play at this World Cup, it will take a heck of wage increase to keep him managing Morocco. This guy is as good as gone. This team and the way they managed their game was eye popping and to think he had this team for only a few games is revealing. This team looked so well-oiled and prepared and inspite of key losses in defense, the team continued to impress.

I can see serious petro dollars being waved in front of him.

Enugu II wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:05 pm Watching Morocco play at this World Cup, it will take a heck of wage increase to keep him managing Morocco. This guy is as good as gone. This team and the way they managed their game was eye popping and to think he had this team for only a few games is revealing. This team looked so well-oiled and prepared and inspite of key losses in defense, the team continued to impress.

He may also opt to stay.

Remember Rabah Saadane?

Was heavily scouted in Europe after the 1982 WC but chose to remain in Algeria...

txj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:26 am

Enugu II wrote: ↑Wed Dec 14, 2022 10:05 pm Watching Morocco play at this World Cup, it will take a heck of wage increase to keep him managing Morocco. This guy is as good as gone. This team and the way they managed their game was eye popping and to think he had this team for only a few games is revealing. This team looked so well-oiled and prepared and inspite of key losses in defense, the team continued to impress.

He may also opt to stay.

Remember Rabah Saadane?

Was heavily scouted in Europe after the 1982 WC but chose to remain in Algeria...

Chief an analogy from 1982?
Surely you know the world has changed significantly…

Morocco better sit down with him and make him sign a new deal, give him whatever he asks for, they should pay him what Europeans pay their top coaches, he should not be allowed to leave

marko wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:27 am Morocco better sit down with him and make him sign a new deal, give him whatever he asks for, they should pay him what Europeans pay their top coaches, he should not be allowed to leave

Totally. But....

They should also consolidate and build beyond just the coach.

African countries need to pay attention to developing our local leagues and international competitions.

We also need to develop our football and sport organisation from the ground up. Invest in sports science and facilities. Not just when the 4 yearly dance comes round.

We need to move away from our shallow approach to the organisation and investment in the game.

cchinukw wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:26 pm

marko wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:27 am Morocco better sit down with him and make him sign a new deal, give him whatever he asks for, they should pay him what Europeans pay their top coaches, he should not be allowed to leave

Totally. But....

They should also consolidate and build beyond just the coach.

African countries need to pay attention to developing our local leagues and international competitions.

We also need to develop our football and sport organisation from the ground up. Invest in sports science and facilities. Not just when the 4 yearly dance comes round.

We need to move away from our shallow approach to the organisation and investment in the game.

Morocco must have done all that as evident by their performance.

Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

That's a minor detail in the scheme of things.

The value of a quality local league cannot be overstated, even when such players leave for Europe.

You have to have the capacity to develop players and have them compete in a functional league.

That's what in turn helps you grow local coaching talent...

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

Thanks
Beyond talent and coaching, unity of purpose can translate into on-field team discipline,
which is the bedrock of many successful teams.

txj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:25 pm

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

That's a minor detail in the scheme of things.

The value of a quality local league cannot be overstated, even when such players leave for Europe.

You have to have the capacity to develop players and have them compete in a functional league.

That's what in turn helps you grow local coaching talent...

On this I totally agree.

I'll repeat what I say when people ask me what is heaviest factor, aside from socioeconomic stability, major factor for Croatian success: a strong league. Period.

My English friends and I have had a good laugh over this. I reckoned more young Croatians get quality playing time and development than young English players...the latter compete with the world, whereas young Croatians get guaranteed time.

Nothing can replace time in quality competition when young. Nothing. There is a tight window from age 16-19 if a player is to develop that final piece...and then it is up to the player to have the psychology to carry through.

wanaj0 wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 2:42 pm

cchinukw wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 12:26 pm

marko wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:27 am Morocco better sit down with him and make him sign a new deal, give him whatever he asks for, they should pay him what Europeans pay their top coaches, he should not be allowed to leave

Totally. But....

They should also consolidate and build beyond just the coach.

African countries need to pay attention to developing our local leagues and international competitions.

We also need to develop our football and sport organisation from the ground up. Invest in sports science and facilities. Not just when the 4 yearly dance comes round.

We need to move away from our shallow approach to the organisation and investment in the game.

Morocco must have done all that as evident by their performance.

I agree! this was years in planning! I hope Morocco continue where they left off, in 4 years, they need to believe they can win the World Cup

mate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:32 pm

txj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:25 pm

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

That's a minor detail in the scheme of things.

The value of a quality local league cannot be overstated, even when such players leave for Europe.

You have to have the capacity to develop players and have them compete in a functional league.

That's what in turn helps you grow local coaching talent...

On this I totally agree.

I'll repeat what I say when people ask me what is heaviest factor, aside from socioeconomic stability, major factor for Croatian success: a strong league. Period.

My English friends and I have had a good laugh over this. I reckoned more young Croatians get quality playing time and development than young English players...the latter compete with the world, whereas young Croatians get guaranteed time.

Nothing can replace time in quality competition when young. Nothing. There is a tight window from age 16-19 if a player is to develop that final piece...and then it is up to the player to have the psychology to carry through.

So Mate, where are the young(er) Croats? You guys are still hanging onto your old guard.

The World Cup ends up being a war of attrition. I think if Croatia was healthier (younger and fitter) they would've overcome Argentina. Those extra-time and overtimes do take a toll.

I watched Morocco and I can't but laugh and remind my good friend the football purist, TXJ when the coach was hired. You can't afford to have a coach ruin the best years of players because your ego doesn't allow you to see that a coach is not a good fit. They chose a coach who allowed them to play the way they want to play...

The bigger congratulations to me is the Moroccan FA. To be bold enough to make the change.

Cellular wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:40 pm

mate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:32 pm

txj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:25 pm

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

That's a minor detail in the scheme of things.

The value of a quality local league cannot be overstated, even when such players leave for Europe.

You have to have the capacity to develop players and have them compete in a functional league.

That's what in turn helps you grow local coaching talent...

On this I totally agree.

I'll repeat what I say when people ask me what is heaviest factor, aside from socioeconomic stability, major factor for Croatian success: a strong league. Period.

My English friends and I have had a good laugh over this. I reckoned more young Croatians get quality playing time and development than young English players...the latter compete with the world, whereas young Croatians get guaranteed time.

Nothing can replace time in quality competition when young. Nothing. There is a tight window from age 16-19 if a player is to develop that final piece...and then it is up to the player to have the psychology to carry through.

So Mate, where are the young(er) Croats? You guys are still hanging onto your old guard.

The World Cup ends up being a war of attrition. I think if Croatia was healthier (younger and fitter) they would've overcome Argentina. Those extra-time and overtimes do take a toll.

I watched Morocco and I can't but laugh and remind my good friend the football purist, TXJ when the coach was hired. You can't afford to have a coach ruin the best years of players because your ego doesn't allow you to see that a coach is not a good fit. They chose a coach who allowed them to play the way they want to play...

The bigger congratulations to me is the Moroccan FA. To be bold enough to make the change.

For some reason you have continued the delusional thinking that the Croatia and Maroc situations are the exact same as Nigeria's when each replaced a manager.

They simply are not the same. Nigeria had no structure to support such a decision.

Even now, with a manager on the ground for near 1yr, Nigeria still has NO STRUCTURE to support a manager!

We don't do analytics. Even Ghana has it now courtesy of Otto..
We have no training center.
None of our pitches are good...
We have no structure for scouting players, except the private one that each FC sets up...

Its only us Nigerians who want/expect success simply cus others succeeded, without ever considering the work they put in!

We as Nigerians DO NOT understand what it takes to win in the modern age...

As for the current Croat team, its a very good balance between old and young.

For a Modric at 37yrs, you have Luca Sucic who is 20yrs.
For a Dejan Lovren you have Gvardiol...Sutalo in defence is 22yrs...

He's spoken openly about getting a chance in Europe.

Cellular wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:40 pm

mate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:32 pm

txj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:25 pm

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

That's a minor detail in the scheme of things.

The value of a quality local league cannot be overstated, even when such players leave for Europe.

You have to have the capacity to develop players and have them compete in a functional league.

That's what in turn helps you grow local coaching talent...

On this I totally agree.

I'll repeat what I say when people ask me what is heaviest factor, aside from socioeconomic stability, major factor for Croatian success: a strong league. Period.

My English friends and I have had a good laugh over this. I reckoned more young Croatians get quality playing time and development than young English players...the latter compete with the world, whereas young Croatians get guaranteed time.

Nothing can replace time in quality competition when young. Nothing. There is a tight window from age 16-19 if a player is to develop that final piece...and then it is up to the player to have the psychology to carry through.

So Mate, where are the young(er) Croats? You guys are still hanging onto your old guard.

The World Cup ends up being a war of attrition. I think if Croatia was healthier (younger and fitter) they would've overcome Argentina. Those extra-time and overtimes do take a toll.

I watched Morocco and I can't but laugh and remind my good friend the football purist, TXJ when the coach was hired. You can't afford to have a coach ruin the best years of players because your ego doesn't allow you to see that a coach is not a good fit. They chose a coach who allowed them to play the way they want to play...

The bigger congratulations to me is the Moroccan FA. To be bold enough to make the change.

I detailed this on a thread specifically asking why Croatia produces so much talent for a 4M population. Check this thread if you are interested. I think it is a great case study: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=310743

I'll repeat our young players that are current, blended with old guard, with a pipeline of youth, facilitating a continuous, smooth transition.

Livakovic the goalie, Gvardiol, Sutalo, Erlic, Sosa, Majer, Stanisic, Sucic, Jaksic, Grbic are all on this WC team and young. Gvardiol is going to be superstar at age 20. Aside from that Messi beat, he's been a beast against the best teams in the world.

Kovacic is 28. Juranovic is 27. Pasalic is 27. Even Brozovic is 30, but runs 12km-16km per game!

Only Modric, Lovren, and Perisic are older. This is a funny discussion, because it was Belgium that was old, not Croatia. Hell...Brazil has Casemiro, Silva, and Dani Alves, but are they old?



Finally, we have a lot of 17-21 year olds who are stepping up for the next WC cycle. Some hot names are:

Roko Simic; 17; forward; Liefering , Austria.
Gabriel Vidovic; 18; midfielder; Bayern, Germany.
Martin Baturina, 19; midfielder; Dinamo.

You never know of course in predicting youth success. But expectations are high. Roko Simic is being called the Croatian Haaland.



If we fail, it won't be because of an old guard or lack of planning or infrastructure. Croatia actually does everything right in football. If we fail it will be because we simply are not good enough.

I'm counting on continued success.

txj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:05 pm

Cellular wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 4:40 pm

mate wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 8:32 pm

txj wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 7:25 pm

Coach wrote: ↑Thu Dec 15, 2022 3:24 pm Whilst agreeing with the need for infrastructural revolution, the idea that a strong local league is the panacea to all ills is overstated. More than anything the collective, in coming together, must assume a state of oneness and a common cause. There must be effective leadership and a unifying identity. Yes infrastructure is an absolute requirement, so too is the mentality and mindset to succeed as the team as opposed to the individual.

It matters not how good the local league is when a player can casually undermine leadership, failure is inevitable.

That's a minor detail in the scheme of things.

The value of a quality local league cannot be overstated, even when such players leave for Europe.

You have to have the capacity to develop players and have them compete in a functional league.

That's what in turn helps you grow local coaching talent...

On this I totally agree.

I'll repeat what I say when people ask me what is heaviest factor, aside from socioeconomic stability, major factor for Croatian success: a strong league. Period.

My English friends and I have had a good laugh over this. I reckoned more young Croatians get quality playing time and development than young English players...the latter compete with the world, whereas young Croatians get guaranteed time.

Nothing can replace time in quality competition when young. Nothing. There is a tight window from age 16-19 if a player is to develop that final piece...and then it is up to the player to have the psychology to carry through.

So Mate, where are the young(er) Croats? You guys are still hanging onto your old guard.

The World Cup ends up being a war of attrition. I think if Croatia was healthier (younger and fitter) they would've overcome Argentina. Those extra-time and overtimes do take a toll.

I watched Morocco and I can't but laugh and remind my good friend the football purist, TXJ when the coach was hired. You can't afford to have a coach ruin the best years of players because your ego doesn't allow you to see that a coach is not a good fit. They chose a coach who allowed them to play the way they want to play...

The bigger congratulations to me is the Moroccan FA. To be bold enough to make the change.

For some reason you have continued the delusional thinking that the Croatia and Maroc situations are the exact same as Nigeria's when each replaced a manager.

They simply are not the same. Nigeria had no structure to support such a decision.

Even now, with a manager on the ground for near 1yr, Nigeria still has NO STRUCTURE to support a manager!

We don't do analytics. Even Ghana has it now courtesy of Otto..
We have no training center.
None of our pitches are good...
We have no structure for scouting players, except the private one that each FC sets up...

Its only us Nigerians who want/expect success simply cus others succeeded, without ever considering the work they put in!

We as Nigerians DO NOT understand what it takes to win in the modern age...

As for the current Croat team, its a very good balance between old and young.

For a Modric at 37yrs, you have Luca Sucic who is 20yrs.
For a Dejan Lovren you have Gvardiol...Sutalo in defence is 22yrs...

Concisely said TXJ.

If you are interested, check out this thread: viewtopic.php?f=30&t=310743

I think there are many good comparison that can be made regarding Nigeria here. But it is after all a very different context. Always is for each nation.

Yet I agree that what might help Nigeria best is indeed getting the infrastructure up to speed. Maximize the pool of 200M people that surely has a lot of serious talent.

I love this discussion. Can somebody list the main Nigerian players under 25 that might become top players? I'd be interested to look them up.

The problem for Nigeria has never been talent.

Its the inability to develop such talent.

I can tell you that the average Nigerian footballer does not interface with FORMAL coaching until a much later period than their European counterparts.

Now, someone like EII will tell you that is inaccurate. But it depends on what you classify as 'formal', and whether the curricula can be designated as such.

And even if we were to accept that formal or informal is irrelevant, the structure behind the development of players is largely unorganized.

The academies, except for very few are mostly marketing agencies...

txj wrote: ↑Fri Dec 16, 2022 6:54 pm The problem for Nigeria has never been talent.

Its the inability to develop such talent.

I can tell you that the average Nigerian footballer does not interface with FORMAL coaching until a much later period than their European counterparts.

Now, someone like EII will tell you that is inaccurate. But it depends on what you classify as 'formal', and whether the curricula can be designated as such.

And even if we were to accept that formal or informal is irrelevant, the structure behind the development of players is largely unorganized.

The academies, except for very few are mostly marketing agencies...

I know from my eye test alone Nigerian talent potential is huge.

I read recently on this site a good suggestion from a Nigerian persona: have a 10 year plan to develop the programs and infrastructure you speak about.

It REALLY is a such a long term endeavor for incremental steps.

Nigeria from what I am seeing may have a large population but less kids on average are playing football today than when I was a kid. 20-30 years ago at least half of Nigerian male children were playing football. Today just go around the cities and schools its less than 10%. Most are either watching EPL or betting or playing with their phones. So its a long night for Nigerian football.

kali wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:09 am Nigeria from what I am seeing may have a large population but less kids on average are playing football today than when I was a kid. 20-30 years ago at least half of Nigerian male children were playing football. Today just go around the cities and schools its less than 10%. Most are either watching EPL or betting or playing with their phones. So its a long night for Nigerian football.

You might have a point there. Back in the days when we use to live in a “Flat” we used to play outside until our angry 80yr old landlord wakes up from his afternoon nap and decided to come after us. These days kids can’t play outside cos the ground have them damn interlocks.

Similarly, my American friends are complaining that kids these days don’t go outside and play cos they are busy with their ps3 and cellphones. The difference is that American kids have gyms at their schools, YMCA and those AAA leagues, something that is not easily accessible for the average Nigerian teenager.

kali wrote: ↑Sat Dec 17, 2022 3:09 am Nigeria from what I am seeing may have a large population but less kids on average are playing football today than when I was a kid. 20-30 years ago at least half of Nigerian male children were playing football. Today just go around the cities and schools its less than 10%. Most are either watching EPL or betting or playing with their phones. So its a long night for Nigerian football.

I think that would be in the urban centres.
I suspect it’s very different in the less affluent areas.
But even at “10%”, that’s still a huge number in a population such as ours.
Unfortunately, no one does proper analyses of these kind of things and it’s all left to conjecture and ‘feelings’.

In my school for example - a prominent football playing Lagos school - I’d estimate that only maybe 15-20% of us were good enough to play competitively together in ‘set’ football.
But that’s thinking about it in this way. The simple assumption would be that “most of us” played together.
That is probably a myth.