The Arsenal FC-Related News & Developments for 2016/2017

[pajimoh]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

You'd think it's just money that's been the issue. HOW has the money been spent. You hear people go on about how much Ozil cost, how much Xhaka cost, Mustafi, heck even Cech. What was the opportunity cost with those guys? Who were the others available for that price? Was there a firm ideology when buying those players? It's not just about the money. British clubs spend STUPIDLY, most of them anyhow. You don't need to spend ridiculously to win. We all know that. The framework is there for Arsenal, it's been there for years...getting over the hump has not been a money issue. Building a DYNASTY is when money will be a factor but you spend money to make money.

Every club can tell you few stories about their spending whether it works out or they've overspent or if they indeed bought the right players. This is not limited to Arsenal alone.

You should also understand that EPL clubs are overcharged when it comes to players. The perceived liquidity of EPL clubs makes it very difficult to do business.

Don't make this just an Arsenal thing. My view is unless there is absolute need for a change then you make it at your peril.

I understand the football marketplace well enough I hope. I made my statements even with the understanding of the 'English premium'.
Every PL side can tell stories of money poured away, sure. In business, this happens a bit. No business runs perfectly. And football/sports is especially tough because you're dealing with young men who bring an unlimited number of unknown factors so guarantees are not a thing. It doesn't mean you stop questioning or trying to get better.

You're essentially saying 'top four' and UCL round 2 IS good enough. What's the point of the sport then?

On the contrary. I'm saying when you give a man a ho, don't compare his output to someone who is using a bulldozer.
Man City were scraping the bottom of the lower leagues until money fell from the sky. Chelsea had no history and could barely attract decent players until the Russian showed up and so the Zola, Vialli and well........ Monaco and PSG where also rans until fortune smiled on them.

One cannot escape the realities of todays football. If you sincerely believe that Arsene is not performing with what he's got then by all means change him.
My point is you must be certain the risk is worth it and not some notion that we must win cups when you've not put in the investment required.
I cannot make that decision for you but what I do know is everyone makes fun of Arsenal that they get knocked out of everything around feb/march. Well that is mostly the knockout stage of most top competitions where you expect the big, high spending clubs will be the ones still standing. It is the way and will always be the way. It would be highly unusual if you get the likes of RM, Barcelona etc exiting the CL at group stage.

In any case the worst you can do is change Wenger and get someone who is decent in but the club will not back him. It's not about the money. Money didn't save Barca. Money has not helped others finish above Arsene.

A 60 something year old woman just had twins in Spain. It happened but what is the regularity?

In the last 10 years, the likes of Chelsea and Man City have challenged and won titles in England. compare their achievement to when they did not have the money.
In Spain, the title is mostly fought between the two super rich clubs.
The likes of Real M have acquired players spending 0ver 60m on a single player and they have more than 2 players worth that amount in their ranks.

I bet you if Arsenal had spend such amount of money you'd have gone to carry Arsen out yourself if he fails to win a trophy. Yet you expect him to get ahead of those who have invested in some top players?

Please, you get what you pay for. High performance cars don't cost the same as average cars. The same as athletes. All you can hope for is to pick up a gem before everyone gets to know about him

[anikulapo]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

My bro, Spuds asides, you know your beans. Please continue to educate. It is only those who are incapable of seeing the big picture that now use the exception are the norm. It is about intelligence and knowledge. Leicester we are told could do it why not Arsenal? Look at Leicester now. AM are having it really though, despite Barca and RM not being what they once were. Above all, Arsenal under Wenger when you look at resources, for wages and transfers, they have over achieved for the vast majority of the seasons they won nothing, met expectations and you might argue, so far this season, under achieving. I cannot wait for this brave new world without Wenger. I know and treasure what we have because I know my football to the core. I mean youth teams, Agents, Coaches, etc. etc. I understand these forces and their role to the very core.

For the first time in our club, Agents are now trying to get involved in team affairs with phones calls to other Directors, this happens at other clubs, never at Arsenal. But they smell an opportunity and they are in with their meddling. They have been firmly rebuffed and told where to go. But if they get in, your club is finished.

Dude STFU with this your condescending attitude and admit you were wrong all along. Things didn't have to get this bad if changes had been made eons ago like we'd been clamoring for. Chelsea didn't wait for things to degenerate too this level before tossing Mourinho barely a half a season removed from him winning the EPL for them.

Even if you are too full of yourself to admit you were wrong then have the decency and do us the favour of saying nothing. Mschew!

Yemsh!t, let me warn you. You not even for a second think you can speak to me that way vbecause you will get it back. You fa*king b~stard.

Oh dear Waffi na wetin nah

[Waffiman]

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

You'd think it's just money that's been the issue. HOW has the money been spent. You hear people go on about how much Ozil cost, how much Xhaka cost, Mustafi, heck even Cech. What was the opportunity cost with those guys? Who were the others available for that price? Was there a firm ideology when buying those players? It's not just about the money. British clubs spend STUPIDLY, most of them anyhow. You don't need to spend ridiculously to win. We all know that. The framework is there for Arsenal, it's been there for years...getting over the hump has not been a money issue. Building a DYNASTY is when money will be a factor but you spend money to make money.

Every club can tell you few stories about their spending whether it works out or they've overspent or if they indeed bought the right players. This is not limited to Arsenal alone.

You should also understand that EPL clubs are overcharged when it comes to players. The perceived liquidity of EPL clubs makes it very difficult to do business.

Don't make this just an Arsenal thing. My view is unless there is absolute need for a change then you make it at your peril.

I understand the football marketplace well enough I hope. I made my statements even with the understanding of the 'English premium'.
Every PL side can tell stories of money poured away, sure. In business, this happens a bit. No business runs perfectly. And football/sports is especially tough because you're dealing with young men who bring an unlimited number of unknown factors so guarantees are not a thing. It doesn't mean you stop questioning or trying to get better.

You're essentially saying 'top four' and UCL round 2 IS good enough. What's the point of the sport then?

On the contrary. I'm saying when you give a man a ho, don't compare his output to someone who is using a bulldozer.
Man City were scraping the bottom of the lower leagues until money fell from the sky. Chelsea had no history and could barely attract decent players until the Russian showed up and so the Zola, Vialli and well........ Monaco and PSG where also rans until fortune smiled on them.

One cannot escape the realities of todays football. If you sincerely believe that Arsene is not performing with what he's got then by all means change him.
My point is you must be certain the risk is worth it and not some notion that we must win cups when you've not put in the investment required.
I cannot make that decision for you but what I do know is everyone makes fun of Arsenal that they get knocked out of everything around feb/march. Well that is mostly the knockout stage of most top competitions where you expect the big, high spending clubs will be the ones still standing. It is the way and will always be the way. It would be highly unusual if you get the likes of RM, Barcelona etc exiting the CL at group stage.

In any case the worst you can do is change Wenger and get someone who is decent in but the club will not back him.

It's not about the money. Money didn't save Barca. Money has not helped others finish above Arsene.

You what!

It is the first time I am reading this. Even the most ardent Wenger outers I know, will not even pretend money is not the most significant factor.

We also know, we will lose Ozil and Sanchez if we do not pony up. Money did not save Barca! You cannot be serious. Go look at their wage bill and money they spent on players. Apart from Leicester, Money has helped every other club finish above Arsenal. The correlation of money spent to success is the strongest in sport, it is not even an issue for argument, it is fact.

However if you are stating an opinion, well, that's fine. It is your opinion, not fact.

[Waffiman]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

My bro, Spuds asides, you know your beans. Please continue to educate. It is only those who are incapable of seeing the big picture that now use the exception are the norm. It is about intelligence and knowledge. Leicester we are told could do it why not Arsenal? Look at Leicester now. AM are having it really though, despite Barca and RM not being what they once were. Above all, Arsenal under Wenger when you look at resources, for wages and transfers, they have over achieved for the vast majority of the seasons they won nothing, met expectations and you might argue, so far this season, under achieving. I cannot wait for this brave new world without Wenger. I know and treasure what we have because I know my football to the core. I mean youth teams, Agents, Coaches, etc. etc. I understand these forces and their role to the very core.

For the first time in our club, Agents are now trying to get involved in team affairs with phones calls to other Directors, this happens at other clubs, never at Arsenal. But they smell an opportunity and they are in with their meddling. They have been firmly rebuffed and told where to go. But if they get in, your club is finished.

Dude STFU with this your condescending attitude and admit you were wrong all along. Things didn't have to get this bad if changes had been made eons ago like we'd been clamoring for. Chelsea didn't wait for things to degenerate too this level before tossing Mourinho barely a half a season removed from him winning the EPL for them.

Even if you are too full of yourself to admit you were wrong then have the decency and do us the favour of saying nothing. Mschew!

Yemsh!t, let me warn you. You not even for a second think you can speak to me that way vbecause you will get it back. You fa*king b~stard.

Oh dear Waffi na wetin nah

The fact is I have been on other Arsenal forum and I have been enjoying healthy honest debate, which is often backed up with intelligent analysis from very knowledgeable people. Nobody insults in those places, so why should I put up with it here. I will not tolerate any insult from anyone. Trust me. I will go nuclear. I am ready for debate like I do everywhere. But, I am fed up of abuse or insults here. I will hit back with brutal force.

[pajimoh]

Why is this palm wine Tapper and his lackey Cristy the Cocoyam farmer seemingly omnipresent on an Arsenal thread ? Can you two kindly Head back from whence you came from and go deal with your Europa issues .... yeye infiltrators

Your problem is you think because you support Arsenal noone else can talk about them, as if you don't talk about other clubs.

If I'm being a total hater, I should care what happens to Arsenal. We've witnessed how many managers at the Lane since Arsene took over? You think we don't want success or we are not willing to spend? Once you get into the habit of changing managers, then it's a habit of changing personnel, because different managers require different players. This gives renewed hope to fans and leads to impatient for results.

You could end up in a terrible cycle while the rest of the teams in the league leaves you further behind.

I'm not saying keep or change Wenger, all I'm saying is be absolutely sure that things are that bad and the change would bring desired result.

Aburo, your status alone renders your opinion irrelevant regardless of the content or logic

Focus on your palm products and your debacle in Belgium ... we no want ya input

We will be just fine ...

Unfortunately for you, you can't stop me from having my input just as I can't stop you from coming to vent hate in our game thread.

Unlike you however, I can give my honest opinion and it's only my opinion 'cos clubs will do what they will do regardless of our opinions.

I also recognize it is only a game and in the scheme of things, how we relate to each other is more important than always at each other's throat with insults.

I've decided you never going to change so my task now is to relate to you as a brother even in the face of insult. How you conduct yourself is up to you

But feel free to insult me and Spurs anytime any day- water off a duck's back

Typical attitude of an addict ... quite admirable with quick shift from aggressive to passive and fake compassion ..:: ole you no go fool me ... abeg carry go Yeye chameleon

The good thing we have intelligent people on this site and they can read all that I've contributed. Let them point out where I've SHOWN aggression in this debate.

I'm I showing compassion? I don't think so but we are debating issues in an honest manner and I think we can do that regardless of our club allegiance. It is you that think we must be programed to hate our rivals all the time.

Would I still laugh at Arsenal, absolutely, but today we are discussing in a civilized manner. Even enemies on the battle field often allow for humanitarian help

[Waffiman]

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

You'd think it's just money that's been the issue. HOW has the money been spent. You hear people go on about how much Ozil cost, how much Xhaka cost, Mustafi, heck even Cech. What was the opportunity cost with those guys? Who were the others available for that price? Was there a firm ideology when buying those players? It's not just about the money. British clubs spend STUPIDLY, most of them anyhow. You don't need to spend ridiculously to win. We all know that. The framework is there for Arsenal, it's been there for years...getting over the hump has not been a money issue. Building a DYNASTY is when money will be a factor but you spend money to make money.

Every club can tell you few stories about their spending whether it works out or they've overspent or if they indeed bought the right players. This is not limited to Arsenal alone.

You should also understand that EPL clubs are overcharged when it comes to players. The perceived liquidity of EPL clubs makes it very difficult to do business.

Don't make this just an Arsenal thing. My view is unless there is absolute need for a change then you make it at your peril.

I understand the football marketplace well enough I hope. I made my statements even with the understanding of the 'English premium'.
Every PL side can tell stories of money poured away, sure. In business, this happens a bit. No business runs perfectly. And football/sports is especially tough because you're dealing with young men who bring an unlimited number of unknown factors so guarantees are not a thing. It doesn't mean you stop questioning or trying to get better.

You're essentially saying 'top four' and UCL round 2 IS good enough. What's the point of the sport then?

On the contrary. I'm saying when you give a man a ho, don't compare his output to someone who is using a bulldozer.
Man City were scraping the bottom of the lower leagues until money fell from the sky. Chelsea had no history and could barely attract decent players until the Russian showed up and so the Zola, Vialli and well........ Monaco and PSG where also rans until fortune smiled on them.

One cannot escape the realities of todays football. If you sincerely believe that Arsene is not performing with what he's got then by all means change him.
My point is you must be certain the risk is worth it and not some notion that we must win cups when you've not put in the investment required.
I cannot make that decision for you but what I do know is everyone makes fun of Arsenal that they get knocked out of everything around feb/march. Well that is mostly the knockout stage of most top competitions where you expect the big, high spending clubs will be the ones still standing. It is the way and will always be the way. It would be highly unusual if you get the likes of RM, Barcelona etc exiting the CL at group stage.

In any case the worst you can do is change Wenger and get someone who is decent in but the club will not back him. It's not about the money. Money didn't save Barca. Money has not helped others finish above Arsene.

A 60 something year old woman just had twins in Spain. It happened but what is the regularity?

In the last 10 years, the likes of Chelsea and Man City have challenged and won titles in England. compare their achievement to when they did not have the money.
In Spain, the title is mostly fought between the two super rich clubs.
The likes of Real M have acquired players spending 0ver 60m on a single player and they have more than 2 players worth that amount in their ranks.

I bet you if Arsenal had spend such amount of money you'd have gone to carry Arsen out yourself if he fails to win a trophy. Yet you expect him to get ahead of those who have invested in some top players?

Please, you get what you pay for. High performance cars don't cost the same as average cars. The same as athletes. All you can hope for is to pick up a gem before everyone gets to know about him

They have not just spent more, they have spent more than they bring into the club. Only ManU, trying to match them have spent their type of money and it is because they can afford it.

I guess your points are why I am now reading things like 'money did not save Barca'.

[Waffiman]

There has been weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth in my household over the last week. Wenger HAS lost the players. A new clearout of players is not feasible. I hope we can win the FA cup and Papa Wenger can retire in style. You have fought a GREAT fight, but you cannot do it without your troops.

Have you seen the pictures today? I know as a fact that there has been a lot, if lot all of his players apologising to him for Wednesday. The good thing about Wednesday is, it could have the effect of sorting out the issues that have been festering between the players. It all came to a crescendo after that game. I await developments.

I hope you are correct, but it is spilled milk. We are out of the Champions league and almost mathematically out of the EPL. So is it true that Sanchez decked Oxtail?

A few weeks back, Sanchez picked on Ramsey, who is a black belt in judo and got decked. I heard it was 50/50, not winner with the Ox. But it is true there was a fight wtw them, plus fights amongst many other players.

I am glad, it has all come out, hopefully, we now move on for the better. But, one thing is clear, there will be changes to players at the club

[Tunisian Gooner]

They have not just spent more, they have spent more than they bring into the club. Only ManU, trying to match them have spent their type of money and it is because they can afford it.

I guess your points are why I am now reading things like 'money did not save Barca'.

It's about context.

AW not just a manager, not sure why most people fail to grasp that. Need to hire at least 4 or 5 people for all the roles AW currently retains at Arsenal, that is not something that can be done by May.

Frankly it's too late, if Arsenal were gong to move from AW the process had to begin immediately after last season. Anything else is haphazard trolley dash.

[platinum]

A 60 something year old woman just had twins in Spain. It happened but what is the regularity?

In the last 10 years, the likes of Chelsea and Man City have challenged and won titles in England. compare their achievement to when they did not have the money. I don't think that's a fair comparison. It's nothing as drastic as that.
In Spain, the title is mostly fought between the two super rich clubs. True. The super rich have an advantage so what does that mean? It means that the others who want to compete have to be SMART and have more hits than misses in buying. They have to adopt guerilla tactics. Coaching wise, they have to be BETTER than the super rich. They have to have philosophies that're on point. Think Sevilla, Think Dortmund, Think Atleti. Is Arsenal these things? Coaching wise, is Arsenal better than City? Chelsea? I have said this for some time. Arsenal's issue is unique in Europe. It's a small club that wantsto act like it's a big club or it's a big club that behaves like a small club.
The likes of Real M have acquired players spending 0ver 60m on a single player and they have more than 2 players worth that amount in their ranks. Money doesn't guarantee winning. It helps but it's no guarantee.

I bet you if Arsenal had spend such amount of money you'd have gone to carry Arsen out yourself if he fails to win a trophy. Yet you expect him to get ahead of those who have invested in some top players? I expect him to not keep making the same mistakes. The things that have doomed Arsenal have not been monetary issues. Getting bested by Bayern is one thing. Losing th PL because of bad tactics or flawed motivation or philosophical gaps is another thing. How many times do you hear Arsene say...they were mentally not ready? That's on him.

Please, you get what you pay for. High performance cars don't cost the same as average cars. The same as athletes. All you can hope for is to pick up a gem before everyone gets to know about him

Even when the opportunities have arisen, Arsenal has failed to capitalize. When Arsenal has lost...WHY have they lost? Is it because of money?
England is a different beast from the other nations. It's a bit more balanced.

[Waffiman]

They have not just spent more, they have spent more than they bring into the club. Only ManU, trying to match them have spent their type of money and it is because they can afford it.

I guess your points are why I am now reading things like 'money did not save Barca'.

It's about context.

AW not just a manager, not sure why most people fail to grasp that. Need to hire at least 4 or 5 people for all the roles AW currently retains at Arsenal, that is not something that can be done by May.

Frankly it's too late, if Arsenal were gong to move from AW the process had to begin immediately after last season. Anything else is haphazard trolley dash.

I am not arguing with your points. I completely agree. The fact is, there is a contract on Wenger's table. He has refused to sign it. The Board only has one option - Wenger. Simple as that.

From today's press conference, I also picked on something, there seems to be disagreements btw Wenger and the Board, my guess is, it is about funds needed to move forward. This has been rumoured for sometime. Wenger can only do so much. Word is, Wenger is bitterly upset at missing out on Kante (Kante was Wenger's top target and he was his man if given the funds) last summer after the Board (Kroenke) refused to sanction the money needed to bring in the player. I am reading from that press conference that Wenger is effectively saying he will leave if those players are sold because the club will not meet their wage demands. Today's press conference was very telling to me given what I have heard and know about.

[anikulapo]

They have not just spent more, they have spent more than they bring into the club. Only ManU, trying to match them have spent their type of money and it is because they can afford it.

I guess your points are why I am now reading things like 'money did not save Barca'.

It's about context.

AW not just a manager, not sure why most people fail to grasp that. Need to hire at least 4 or 5 people for all the roles AW currently retains at Arsenal, that is not something that can be done by May.

Frankly it's too late, if Arsenal were gong to move from AW the process had to begin immediately after last season. Anything else is haphazard trolley dash.

I am not arguing with your points. I completely agree. The fact is, there is a contract on Wenger's table. He has refused to sign it. The Board only has one option - Wenger. Simple as that.

From today's press conference, I also picked on something, there seems to be disagreements btw Wenger and the Board, my guess is, it is about funds needed to move forward. Word is Wenger is bitterly upset at missing out on Kante (Kante was Wenger's top target and he was his man if given the funds) last summer after the Board (Kroenke) refused to sanction the money needed to bring in the player. I am reading from that press conference that Wenger is effectively saying he will leave if those players are sold because the club will not meet their wage demands. Today's press conference was very telling to me given what I have heard and know about.

Wait wait are you saying they wasted a kings ransom on Xhaka and Mustafi but wouldn't pony up for Kante or are we talking wages here? Either way I'm not buying it ... if Arsene tells the board to pony up I highly doubt they would say no

[platinum]

You what!

It is the first time I am reading this. Even the most ardent Wenger outers I know, will not even pretend money is not the most significant factor.

We also know, we will lose Ozil and Sanchez if we do not pony up. Money did not save Barca! You cannot be serious. Go look at their wage bill and money they spent on players. Apart from Leicester, Money has helped every other club finish above Arsenal. The correlation of money spent to success is the strongest in sport, it is not even an issue for argument, it is fact.

However if you are stating an opinion, well, that's fine. It is your opinion, not fact.

When I speak of Barca, I am talking of the 4-0 beating PSG loaded on them.

Ozil and Alexis are world class, sure. They're also fungible. They were available for a reason and I don't think Arsenal will collapse if they leave. If Arsenal loses those guys, there will be ready replacements. There's not a Messi or Ronaldo like player at Arsenal. These two are not tier 1 players. There should be no hand wringing over them. They're not what Henry was when he left, maybe not even what Van Persie was when he left.

I don't deny the money impact, I argue that at a certain level, it becomes a more level playing field where winning isn't necessarily going to just the richest. In any business or industry, you have the first movers, you have the giants then you have the guys who want to break in, the likes of Tesla, the likes of Apple (v IBM). Those challengers have to act like challengers and consistently innovate and aggressively charge at the big boys.

Is Arsenal a big club or not? We don talk dis ting before. If it's a big club then the expectation is simple, WIN. If it isnt then adjust the expectation of the fans. Don't spend years saying things that lead fans to believe you're on the level of the big boys. Manage expectations correctly. I think Arsenal has the framework to win NOW, I think it's the manager who needs to do a better job getting the maximum out of this framework. I think he isn't doing that right now and that's because of the character he is. My opinion of course so it's biased.

[anikulapo]

Why is this palm wine Tapper and his lackey Cristy the Cocoyam farmer seemingly omnipresent on an Arsenal thread ? Can you two kindly Head back from whence you came from and go deal with your Europa issues .... yeye infiltrators

Your problem is you think because you support Arsenal noone else can talk about them, as if you don't talk about other clubs.

If I'm being a total hater, I should care what happens to Arsenal. We've witnessed how many managers at the Lane since Arsene took over? You think we don't want success or we are not willing to spend? Once you get into the habit of changing managers, then it's a habit of changing personnel, because different managers require different players. This gives renewed hope to fans and leads to impatient for results.

You could end up in a terrible cycle while the rest of the teams in the league leaves you further behind.

I'm not saying keep or change Wenger, all I'm saying is be absolutely sure that things are that bad and the change would bring desired result.

Aburo, your status alone renders your opinion irrelevant regardless of the content or logic

Focus on your palm products and your debacle in Belgium ... we no want ya input

We will be just fine ...

Unfortunately for you, you can't stop me from having my input just as I can't stop you from coming to vent hate in our game thread.

Unlike you however, I can give my honest opinion and it's only my opinion 'cos clubs will do what they will do regardless of our opinions.

I also recognize it is only a game and in the scheme of things, how we relate to each other is more important than always at each other's throat with insults.

I've decided you never going to change so my task now is to relate to you as a brother even in the face of insult. How you conduct yourself is up to you

But feel free to insult me and Spurs anytime any day- water off a duck's back

Typical attitude of an addict ... quite admirable with quick shift from aggressive to passive and fake compassion ..:: ole you no go fool me ... abeg carry go Yeye chameleon

The good thing we have intelligent people on this site and they can read all that I've contributed. Let them point out where I've SHOWN aggression in this debate.

I'm I showing compassion? I don't think so but we are debating issues in an honest manner and I think we can do that regardless of our club allegiance. It is you that think we must be programed to hate our rivals all the time.

Would I still laugh at Arsenal, absolutely, but today we are discussing in a civilized manner. Even enemies on the battle field often allow for humanitarian help

Whatever dude .... moving along

[anikulapo]

There has been weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth in my household over the last week. Wenger HAS lost the players. A new clearout of players is not feasible. I hope we can win the FA cup and Papa Wenger can retire in style. You have fought a GREAT fight, but you cannot do it without your troops.

Have you seen the pictures today? I know as a fact that there has been a lot, if lot all of his players apologising to him for Wednesday. The good thing about Wednesday is, it could have the effect of sorting out the issues that have been festering between the players. It all came to a crescendo after that game. I await developments.

I hope you are correct, but it is spilled milk. We are out of the Champions league and almost mathematically out of the EPL. So is it true that Sanchez decked Oxtail?

A few weeks back, Sanchez picked on Ramsey, who is a black belt in judo and got decked. I heard it was 50/50, not winner with the Ox. But it is true there was a fight wtw them, plus fights amongst many other players.

I am glad, it has all come out, hopefully, we now move on for the better. But, one thing is clear, there will be changes to players at the club

Ramshyt decked Alexis????? Hahahahaha absolute falsehood and proper Tales By moonlight fable ... Kura Area boy from Chile will annihilate that welsh cupcake regardless black or pink belt ... Kaiii a Waffi you love fables sha

[pajimoh]

A 60 something year old woman just had twins in Spain. It happened but what is the regularity?

In the last 10 years, the likes of Chelsea and Man City have challenged and won titles in England. compare their achievement to when they did not have the money. I don't think that's a fair comparison. It's nothing as drastic as that.
In Spain, the title is mostly fought between the two super rich clubs. True. The super rich have an advantage so what does that mean? It means that the others who want to compete have to be SMART and have more hits than misses in buying. They have to adopt guerilla tactics. Coaching wise, they have to be BETTER than the super rich. They have to have philosophies that're on point. Think Sevilla, Think Dortmund, Think Atleti. Is Arsenal these things? Coaching wise, is Arsenal better than City? Chelsea? I have said this for some time. Arsenal's issue is unique in Europe. It's a small club that wantsto act like it's a big club or it's a big club that behaves like a small club.
The likes of Real M have acquired players spending 0ver 60m on a single player and they have more than 2 players worth that amount in their ranks. Money doesn't guarantee winning. It helps but it's no guarantee.

I bet you if Arsenal had spend such amount of money you'd have gone to carry Arsen out yourself if he fails to win a trophy. Yet you expect him to get ahead of those who have invested in some top players? I expect him to not keep making the same mistakes. The things that have doomed Arsenal have not been monetary issues. Getting bested by Bayern is one thing. Losing th PL because of bad tactics or flawed motivation or philosophical gaps is another thing. How many times do you hear Arsene say...they were mentally not ready? That's on him.

Please, you get what you pay for. High performance cars don't cost the same as average cars. The same as athletes. All you can hope for is to pick up a gem before everyone gets to know about him

Even when the opportunities have arisen, Arsenal has failed to capitalize. When Arsenal has lost...WHY have they lost? Is it because of money?
England is a different beast from the other nations. It's a bit more balanced.

The bottom line is, regardless of how long we debate, changing Arsene is not a guarantee for success. Once you're comfortable with that then goodluck

[platinum]

They have not just spent more, they have spent more than they bring into the club. Only ManU, trying to match them have spent their type of money and it is because they can afford it.

I guess your points are why I am now reading things like 'money did not save Barca'.

It's about context.

AW not just a manager, not sure why most people fail to grasp that. Need to hire at least 4 or 5 people for all the roles AW currently retains at Arsenal, that is not something that can be done by May.

Frankly it's too late, if Arsenal were gong to move from AW the process had to begin immediately after last season. Anything else is haphazard trolley dash.

I am not arguing with your points. I completely agree. The fact is, there is a contract on Wenger's table. He has refused to sign it. The Board only has one option - Wenger. Simple as that.

From today's press conference, I also picked on something, there seems to be disagreements btw Wenger and the Board, my guess is, it is about funds needed to move forward. Word is Wenger is bitterly upset at missing out on Kante (Kante was Wenger's top target and he was his man if given the funds) last summer after the Board (Kroenke) refused to sanction the money needed to bring in the player. I am reading from that press conference that Wenger is effectively saying he will leave if those players are sold because the club will not meet their wage demands. Today's press conference was very telling to me given what I have heard and know about.

Wait wait are you saying they wasted a kings ransom on Xhaka and Mustafi but wouldn't pony up for Kante or are we talking wages here? Either way I'm not buying it ... if Arsene tells the board to pony up I highly doubt they would say no

Forget Mustafi even. If Arsenal didn't think it'd be worth selling off Coq and passing on Xhaka to fund Kante then the club is being run incompetently. These are the money issues I speak of....it's not getting into a bidding war for Mata or Hazard, it's failing to move off the weaknesses you have to get better. It's being held ransom by THEO WALCOTT. It's extending Per Mertesacker and Johan Djourou. It's being held ransom by Mesut Ozil and Alexis Sanchez and being in a position were the world could possibly fall apart without them. It's believing in a British core that didn't embody the toughness, heart and fight that the old British core used to have.

[platinum]

A 60 something year old woman just had twins in Spain. It happened but what is the regularity?

In the last 10 years, the likes of Chelsea and Man City have challenged and won titles in England. compare their achievement to when they did not have the money. I don't think that's a fair comparison. It's nothing as drastic as that.
In Spain, the title is mostly fought between the two super rich clubs. True. The super rich have an advantage so what does that mean? It means that the others who want to compete have to be SMART and have more hits than misses in buying. They have to adopt guerilla tactics. Coaching wise, they have to be BETTER than the super rich. They have to have philosophies that're on point. Think Sevilla, Think Dortmund, Think Atleti. Is Arsenal these things? Coaching wise, is Arsenal better than City? Chelsea? I have said this for some time. Arsenal's issue is unique in Europe. It's a small club that wantsto act like it's a big club or it's a big club that behaves like a small club.
The likes of Real M have acquired players spending 0ver 60m on a single player and they have more than 2 players worth that amount in their ranks. Money doesn't guarantee winning. It helps but it's no guarantee.

I bet you if Arsenal had spend such amount of money you'd have gone to carry Arsen out yourself if he fails to win a trophy. Yet you expect him to get ahead of those who have invested in some top players? I expect him to not keep making the same mistakes. The things that have doomed Arsenal have not been monetary issues. Getting bested by Bayern is one thing. Losing th PL because of bad tactics or flawed motivation or philosophical gaps is another thing. How many times do you hear Arsene say...they were mentally not ready? That's on him.

Please, you get what you pay for. High performance cars don't cost the same as average cars. The same as athletes. All you can hope for is to pick up a gem before everyone gets to know about him

Even when the opportunities have arisen, Arsenal has failed to capitalize. When Arsenal has lost...WHY have they lost? Is it because of money?
England is a different beast from the other nations. It's a bit more balanced.

The bottom line is, regardless of how long we debate, changing Arsene is not a guarantee for success. Once you're comfortable with that then goodluck

No it isn't but life doesn't give guarantees. You have made several 'risky' moves in life to grow. There's no growth that comes without pain. Even childbirth comes with furious pain.
When you get complacent and comfortable with the status quo, you need to ask questions of self.

[Waffiman]

You what!

It is the first time I am reading this. Even the most ardent Wenger outers I know, will not even pretend money is not the most significant factor.

We also know, we will lose Ozil and Sanchez if we do not pony up. Money did not save Barca! You cannot be serious. Go look at their wage bill and money they spent on players. Apart from Leicester, Money has helped every other club finish above Arsenal. The correlation of money spent to success is the strongest in sport, it is not even an issue for argument, it is fact.

However if you are stating an opinion, well, that's fine. It is your opinion, not fact.

When I speak of Barca, I am talking of the 4-0 beating PSG loaded on them.

Ozil and Alexis are world class, sure. They're also fungible. They were available for a reason and I don't think Arsenal will collapse if they leave. If Arsenal loses those guys, there will be ready replacements. There's not a Messi or Ronaldo like player at Arsenal. These two are not tier 1 players. There should be no hand wringing over them. They're not what Henry was when he left, maybe not even what Van Persie was when he left.

I don't deny the money impact, I argue that at a certain level, it becomes a more level playing field where winning isn't necessarily going to just the richest. In any business or industry, you have the first movers, you have the giants then you have the guys who want to break in, the likes of Tesla, the likes of Apple (v IBM). Those challengers have to act like challengers and consistently innovate and aggressively charge at the big boys.

Is Arsenal a big club or not? We don talk dis ting before. If it's a big club then the expectation is simple, WIN. If it isnt then adjust the expectation of the fans. Don't spend years saying things that lead fans to believe you're on the level of the big boys. Manage expectations correctly. I think Arsenal has the framework to win NOW, I think it's the manager who needs to do a better job getting the maximum out of this framework. I think he isn't doing that right now and that's because of the character he is. My opinion of course so it's biased.

Nobody has said Arsenal will collapse if they leave. Currently, and since they arrived at the club their presence has given us FA Cups and improvement to 2nd. If we want to be top, we must keep them and improve on other areas of the pitch. When you lose players like that, top players do not want to join you. If you want to be a winner and earn top money playing in the CL, you start by keeping your best players. I am 100% certain, that will not happen if Wenger leaves. I can hazard a good guess that if we pay up, we keep the players and the Manager. We also improve the squad for next season and get better.

Wenger made his name by innovating and bringing in new ideas, even him cannot continue to work miracles, there was bound to be a season where it all catches up with the club. The game has moved on, Sports science has taken over and every team has what it takes to compete for their objectives. This is about getting the best players, in all sports, the team with the best players, pay the most money and win the most. We cannot afford to lose our best players and say we are competing for top 4.

Arsenal are a big club in the modern game because Wenger has made it exactly that. When Wenger talks about CL and asks what Arsenal did before him, he is being brutally honest. If Arsenal are to remain a top and big club. they must remove all pretense and start paying up.

[Gooner1]

You what!

It is the first time I am reading this. Even the most ardent Wenger outers I know, will not even pretend money is not the most significant factor.

We also know, we will lose Ozil and Sanchez if we do not pony up. Money did not save Barca! You cannot be serious. Go look at their wage bill and money they spent on players. Apart from Leicester, Money has helped every other club finish above Arsenal. The correlation of money spent to success is the strongest in sport, it is not even an issue for argument, it is fact.

However if you are stating an opinion, well, that's fine. It is your opinion, not fact.

When I speak of Barca, I am talking of the 4-0 beating PSG loaded on them.

Ozil and Alexis are world class, sure. They're also fungible. They were available for a reason and I don't think Arsenal will collapse if they leave. If Arsenal loses those guys, there will be ready replacements. There's not a Messi or Ronaldo like player at Arsenal. These two are not tier 1 players. There should be no hand wringing over them. They're not what Henry was when he left, maybe not even what Van Persie was when he left.

I don't deny the money impact, I argue that at a certain level, it becomes a more level playing field where winning isn't necessarily going to just the richest. In any business or industry, you have the first movers, you have the giants then you have the guys who want to break in, the likes of Tesla, the likes of Apple (v IBM). Those challengers have to act like challengers and consistently innovate and aggressively charge at the big boys.

Is Arsenal a big club or not? We don talk dis ting before. If it's a big club then the expectation is simple, WIN. If it isnt then adjust the expectation of the fans. Don't spend years saying things that lead fans to believe you're on the level of the big boys. Manage expectations correctly. I think Arsenal has the framework to win NOW, I think it's the manager who needs to do a better job getting the maximum out of this framework. I think he isn't doing that right now and that's because of the character he is. My opinion of course so it's biased.

Nobody has said Arsenal will collapse if they leave. Currently, and since they arrived at the club their presence has given us FA Cups and improvement to 2nd. If we want to be top, we must keep them and improve on other areas of the pitch. When you lose players like that, top players do not want to join you. If you want to be a winner and earn top money playing in the CL, you start by keeping your best players. I am 100% certain, that will not happen if Wenger leaves. I can hazard a good guess that if we pay up, we keep the players and the Manager. We also improve the squad for next season and get better.

Wenger made his name by innovating and bringing in new ideas, even him cannot continue to work miracles, there was bound to be a season where it all catches up with the club. The game has moved on, Sports science has taken over and every team has what it takes to compete for their objectives. This is about getting the best players, in all sports, the team with the best players, pay the most money and win the most. We cannot afford to lose our best players and say we are competing for top 4.

Arsenal are a big club in the modern game because Wenger has made it exactly that. When Wenger talks about CL and asks what Arsenal did before him, he is being brutally honest. If Arsenal are to remain a top and big club. they must remove all pretense and start paying up.

GG won a European title and got to the fairs cup final......wenger has never won and will never win anything in Europe with AFC
Wenger's early success was due to GG's hard defensive work....it was he who bought Dixon, Winterburn, Keown, Bould, Adams etc.....
so stop peddling fake news here, we are all a bit bored of Arsene Football rubbish

[Waffiman]

They have not just spent more, they have spent more than they bring into the club. Only ManU, trying to match them have spent their type of money and it is because they can afford it.

I guess your points are why I am now reading things like 'money did not save Barca'.

It's about context.

AW not just a manager, not sure why most people fail to grasp that. Need to hire at least 4 or 5 people for all the roles AW currently retains at Arsenal, that is not something that can be done by May.

Frankly it's too late, if Arsenal were gong to move from AW the process had to begin immediately after last season. Anything else is haphazard trolley dash.

I am not arguing with your points. I completely agree. The fact is, there is a contract on Wenger's table. He has refused to sign it. The Board only has one option - Wenger. Simple as that.

From today's press conference, I also picked on something, there seems to be disagreements btw Wenger and the Board, my guess is, it is about funds needed to move forward. Word is Wenger is bitterly upset at missing out on Kante (Kante was Wenger's top target and he was his man if given the funds) last summer after the Board (Kroenke) refused to sanction the money needed to bring in the player. I am reading from that press conference that Wenger is effectively saying he will leave if those players are sold because the club will not meet their wage demands. Today's press conference was very telling to me given what I have heard and know about.

Wait wait are you saying they wasted a kings ransom on Xhaka and Mustafi but wouldn't pony up for Kante or are we talking wages here? Either way I'm not buying it ... if Arsene tells the board to pony up I highly doubt they would say no

What king's ransome? Put both their wages together, if the rumours are correct, Kante earns more. Kante has a £25m clause in his contract but in today's market, he would have cost the best part of £60m, so you must compensate the players and his agent for getting such quality at that price. The Board refused to do it. Try to understand issues at play here instead of immediately looking at a player you do not rate. You may not rate the player, fair enough, but it does not make you right. Xhaka, for the money we paid is a good and developing acquisition but that is my opinion. But Kante was proven and a champion. We failed to pay up for that and it's implications.

Xhaka is on an £80,000 per week package. Kante signed a package worth over £200,000 per week. Kante joining Arsenal meant he would have earned more than Ozil and Sanchez, the consequence being they will now earn more than Kante with their new deals. Also means the best players will earn that type of wages, whilst the club moved on those they do not think are worth the money. That is the next step, it is a step the Board are not willing to pay up for. In effect, if we want to compete, we must now be ready to match the wages of the top clubs. We cannot afford to be £30m plus behind the top clubs and say we are a big club competing.

Look how we haggled for Mustafi, the player joined in the end because Chelski did not pay him the sort of wages they gave Kante and Louis. His package is £120,000 per week and that is a bargain given his impact on the club.

[living]

It is funny, back in the day I used to be a die hard gunner thanks to wenger and waffiman I didn't even know arsenal was playikng let alone being walloped 5-1 by bayern Munich. Until wenger leaves arsenal is going to win nothing

[platinum]

You what!

It is the first time I am reading this. Even the most ardent Wenger outers I know, will not even pretend money is not the most significant factor.

We also know, we will lose Ozil and Sanchez if we do not pony up. Money did not save Barca! You cannot be serious. Go look at their wage bill and money they spent on players. Apart from Leicester, Money has helped every other club finish above Arsenal. The correlation of money spent to success is the strongest in sport, it is not even an issue for argument, it is fact.

However if you are stating an opinion, well, that's fine. It is your opinion, not fact.

When I speak of Barca, I am talking of the 4-0 beating PSG loaded on them.

Ozil and Alexis are world class, sure. They're also fungible. They were available for a reason and I don't think Arsenal will collapse if they leave. If Arsenal loses those guys, there will be ready replacements. There's not a Messi or Ronaldo like player at Arsenal. These two are not tier 1 players. There should be no hand wringing over them. They're not what Henry was when he left, maybe not even what Van Persie was when he left.

I don't deny the money impact, I argue that at a certain level, it becomes a more level playing field where winning isn't necessarily going to just the richest. In any business or industry, you have the first movers, you have the giants then you have the guys who want to break in, the likes of Tesla, the likes of Apple (v IBM). Those challengers have to act like challengers and consistently innovate and aggressively charge at the big boys.

Is Arsenal a big club or not? We don talk dis ting before. If it's a big club then the expectation is simple, WIN. If it isnt then adjust the expectation of the fans. Don't spend years saying things that lead fans to believe you're on the level of the big boys. Manage expectations correctly. I think Arsenal has the framework to win NOW, I think it's the manager who needs to do a better job getting the maximum out of this framework. I think he isn't doing that right now and that's because of the character he is. My opinion of course so it's biased.

Nobody has said Arsenal will collapse if they leave. Currently, and since they arrived at the club their presence has given us FA Cups and improvement to 2nd. If we want to be top, we must keep them and improve on other areas of the pitch. When you lose players like that, top players do not want to join you. If you want to be a winner and earn top money playing in the CL, you start by keeping your best players. I am 100% certain, that will not happen if Wenger leaves. I can hazard a good guess that if we pay up, we keep the players and the Manager. We also improve the squad for next season and get better.

Wenger made his name by innovating and bringing in new ideas, even him cannot continue to work miracles, there was bound to be a season where it all catches up with the club. The game has moved on, Sports science has taken over and every team has what it takes to compete for their objectives. This is about getting the best players, in all sports, the team with the best players, pay the most money and win the most. We cannot afford to lose our best players and say we are competing for top 4.

Arsenal are a big club in the modern game because Wenger has made it exactly that. When Wenger talks about CL and asks what Arsenal did before him, he is being brutally honest. If Arsenal are to remain a top and big club. they must remove all pretense and start paying up.

The underlined is the core foundation of the disagreement. If Arsenal is a big club then Arsenal shouldn't be getting smacked year after year by fellow big clubs [clearly second best every time]. Arsenal shouldn't be failing time after time to win a league crown. So I'd say 'remain' isn't the right term, the club isn't there yet. The expectation is easier to manage when that is clear.

[Waffiman]

You what!

It is the first time I am reading this. Even the most ardent Wenger outers I know, will not even pretend money is not the most significant factor.

We also know, we will lose Ozil and Sanchez if we do not pony up. Money did not save Barca! You cannot be serious. Go look at their wage bill and money they spent on players. Apart from Leicester, Money has helped every other club finish above Arsenal. The correlation of money spent to success is the strongest in sport, it is not even an issue for argument, it is fact.

However if you are stating an opinion, well, that's fine. It is your opinion, not fact.

When I speak of Barca, I am talking of the 4-0 beating PSG loaded on them.

Ozil and Alexis are world class, sure. They're also fungible. They were available for a reason and I don't think Arsenal will collapse if they leave. If Arsenal loses those guys, there will be ready replacements. There's not a Messi or Ronaldo like player at Arsenal. These two are not tier 1 players. There should be no hand wringing over them. They're not what Henry was when he left, maybe not even what Van Persie was when he left.

I don't deny the money impact, I argue that at a certain level, it becomes a more level playing field where winning isn't necessarily going to just the richest. In any business or industry, you have the first movers, you have the giants then you have the guys who want to break in, the likes of Tesla, the likes of Apple (v IBM). Those challengers have to act like challengers and consistently innovate and aggressively charge at the big boys.

Is Arsenal a big club or not? We don talk dis ting before. If it's a big club then the expectation is simple, WIN. If it isnt then adjust the expectation of the fans. Don't spend years saying things that lead fans to believe you're on the level of the big boys. Manage expectations correctly. I think Arsenal has the framework to win NOW, I think it's the manager who needs to do a better job getting the maximum out of this framework. I think he isn't doing that right now and that's because of the character he is. My opinion of course so it's biased.

Nobody has said Arsenal will collapse if they leave. Currently, and since they arrived at the club their presence has given us FA Cups and improvement to 2nd. If we want to be top, we must keep them and improve on other areas of the pitch. When you lose players like that, top players do not want to join you. If you want to be a winner and earn top money playing in the CL, you start by keeping your best players. I am 100% certain, that will not happen if Wenger leaves. I can hazard a good guess that if we pay up, we keep the players and the Manager. We also improve the squad for next season and get better.

Wenger made his name by innovating and bringing in new ideas, even him cannot continue to work miracles, there was bound to be a season where it all catches up with the club. The game has moved on, Sports science has taken over and every team has what it takes to compete for their objectives. This is about getting the best players, in all sports, the team with the best players, pay the most money and win the most. We cannot afford to lose our best players and say we are competing for top 4.

Arsenal are a big club in the modern game because Wenger has made it exactly that. When Wenger talks about CL and asks what Arsenal did before him, he is being brutally honest. If Arsenal are to remain a top and big club. they must remove all pretense and start paying up.

GG won a European title and got to the fairs cup final......wenger has never won and will never win anything in Europe with AFC
Wenger's early success was due to GG's hard defensive work....it was he who bought Dixon, Winterburn, Keown, Bould, Adams etc.....
so stop peddling fake news here, we are all a bit bored of Arsene Football rubbish

We have already put the WOBs in their place and this GG nonsense.

How can you even compare the Friars Cup and the Cup Winners Cup to the CL? It is so utterly meaningless and ridiculous.

GG had a chance in the European Cup, now CL, do you remember what happened? I know it pains you to admit it, Wenger is right about Arsenal and CL football.

Another rubbish on the defense. Well, it has been proven and the players themselves have said, Wenger made them better players. We also know that defence under Wenger conceded less than they did under GG. You are further undermined because Wenger built a defense with the 'Invicibles' that broke every defensive record in the history of football in this country despite playing an attacking brand of football.

Gooner1, get with the program. I love GG, I am not in the business of disparaging one legend for another. But the facts cannot be denied.

How many times did you watch Arsenal in Europe before Arsenal? I know, I was a ST holder under GG. I went before GG. We saw Europe then as a distant dream reservd for clubs like Liverpool.