Referees: Discussion

[yaya]

the question is whether Europe is suffering as a result of the reduction in maturity and experience of the referees.

Having watched the barcelona game, I was very unimpressed witht he referee. Apparently, FSC was also unimpressed with the referee in the rangers v Sevilla game. One of their pundits pinted out that the referee int he game was too inexperienced for this level and that he has looked at the age and experience of the referees in every game this week and it is disappointing. most of the referees are in their early 30s and very inexperienced.

I wanted to open this thread last week, but i forgot, only to be reminded after watching the games today and listening to the FSC pundits. i wanted to open this thread last week after i watched the Inter Milan v. Napoli game. Pierluigi Colina was a guest at the game - well, he was not really a guest, he was observing the officiating of the game for Italian Federation -as he has been doing since he retired. the gist of the matter is this;

The referees who are Collina's mate, contemporary and immediate junior where all fired after calciopoli (the cheating by Juve and others). The federation found out that top referees, in fact almost, if not all the experienced referees where involved. so they were all fired. not too suprisingly, only Colina came out without blemish and retired (not fired). As a result, a whole new batch of referees were hired. I, as a big fan of Calcio has to admit, the refereeing is shocking most times in Serie A. sometimes, i think the referees are simply being paid like in the Juve days, but the consensus in calcio is that its inexperience..and not cheating. the referees will learn.

Around the time of calciopoli, if you remember, there was a refereeing scandal in dies bundesliga. some referees were caught gambling on games. As a result, several top, experienced, referees were fired and young, inexperienced ones were hired. More so, top referees like Herbert Fandel have also retired. this has also led to the low standards of refreeing in dies bundesliga.

As for England, their best and most experienced referee was graham Poll...and we all know how much of a knuclehead that one is. That one also retired, like some more experienced referees in England. Also, last week, we have also heard of mark Halsey's battle with cancer, meaning that England has now lost another experience referee. Furthermore, the habit of sending a referee to referee in div 3 after a mistake is complete lunacy! i mean, the referee's decision is final, so the rules says, but when a big club feels they have been dealt with, they run like babies to the FA, who then punish the ref, by sending him to div 3. More so, what does that say about the div 3? that its okay for a crap ref to ref div 3 games? i mean, ifthe FA knows that a ref is bad, fire him! whats the point of keeping him around? now refs are under so much pressure for the fear of being demoted to div 3??/ oh please!

Spain too, has been losing referees to retirement. Most notably the great Luis Medina Cantalejo! for spain to move fromt that to the sh1t Manuel Enrique Mejuto Gonzales as their top referee simply shocks the concience!

when Manuel Enrique Mejuto Gonzalez, Terje Hague, Tom Henning Ovrebo and Howard Webb are UEFA's top referee, then you know we have problems.

i dont know if the aftermath of calciopoli and the bundesliga problem was handled well, personally, i think the age for retiring referees should be increased and referees like Colina who are still fit can either be asked to continue on, or perhaps teach courses on a regular basis to young referees. Football is a multi-billion pound business world wide, and a mistake of the referee can destroy a club for ever. i think UEFA needs to call all the FAs together and discuss on what to do. it is becoming embarassing!

I leave you with the thought of the past when we all heard Pierluigi Collina, Anders Frisk, Dr. Marcus Merk, Lubos Michel, Kyro Cassaras, herbert Fandel and Luis Medina Cantalejo were refereeing a game. we all remember what we thought! we knew their calls were going to be just and firm. we knew their decisions were final...we knew when they made a mistake, it was a mistake and not pre-planed. their mistakes were also minor, and not major. UEFA, needs to sit up!

[YUJAM]

Hmmm. I like your write-up because it shows you pay attention to the game - but I think folks are making a mountain out of a molehill. If your footie is good enough, the decisions of the ref are not normally the deciding factors. I don't usually buy the argument that teams lose because of refs. It is rare

From what I understand both Rangers and Kiev were thoroughly outplayed today and even tho there were some questionable ref decisions - as there always is, the better teams on the field were Barca and Sevila

[yaya]

Hmmm. I like your write-up because it shows you pay attention to the game - but I think folks are making a mountain out of a molehill. If your footie is good enough, the decisions of the ref are not normally the deciding factors. I don't usually buy the argument that teams lose because of refs. It is rare

From what I understand both Rangers and Kiev were thoroughly outplayed today and even tho there were some questionable ref decisions - as there always is, the better teams on the field were Barca and Sevila

thats very true. And anyone whose had a discussion with me on these referee issues, will tell you that I am one who believes mistakes are part of the game. FIFA has always said it wants the game to be as natural as possible, and I agree with that. I am NOT in favor of all the electronic gadgets that many people are clamouring for, but I am in favor of a clean game. I mean, there are some mistakes a referee makes and you are lef stunned at the amount of stupidity in that kind of mistake. it also makes the game untrustworthy. you watch a game and the out come simply does not sit well.

It reminds me of a funny interview of a rookie referee in one of the small leagues:

I must admit, i did not see the play very well. But i decided not to give a penalty, because I felt that the defender could not have been so stupid to make that kind of careless tackle in the penalty area. not at this level.

honest, but quite a stupid referee.

[Penarity]

I disagree that Refs do not influence match outcomes... and this coming from you, YUJAM!!!

I can't even list several cases that the Ref's decisions and calls have not only demoralised the psychology of a team, but they have also swayed match outcomes. See those uncalled for penalties we observe with some African Champions league matches... even in the WC qualifying series (Cameroon comes to mind), and the current U20 WC where the officiating has been all out against Nigeria!

[Goldleaf]

Anders Frisk? Was that not the swedish ref that had a coined aimed at his head in a match involving Roma and whose life was threatened after a dodgy decision against which drew Jose Mourinho's ire, after which he then promptly retired?

[yaya]

Anders Frisk? Was that not the swedish ref that had a coined aimed at his head in a match involving Roma and whose life was threatened after a dodgy decision against which drew Jose Mourinho's ire, after which he then promptly retired?

yes, thats Anders. He is also an angel* for coming out to discuss official referee matters for money (as pundit on tv).

[yaya]

Catania Director Pietro Lo Monaco Accuses Serie A Referees Of Having Double Standards
The Elefanti director is unhappy with perceived favouritism towards Serie A's elite...
Sep 30, 2009 6:11:30 PM

Outspoken Catania director Pietro Lo Monaco has blasted Serie A referees, claiming that they are favouring the big clubs against the Elefanti.

"We have played six games and on three occasions the referees have invented things that have made us lose a lot of points," Lo Monaco is quoted as saying by Datasport.

"Unfortunately we are the outcasts - in Italian football the big fish eat the small fish. We want respect from the referees who, among other things, are paid by us."

It is not the first time that Lo Monaco has made controversial comments. The director has previously been involved in a public slanging match with Inter coach Jose Mourinho, claiming that the Nerazzurri boss "needed a smack in the mouth" last season.

http://goal.com/en/news/10/italy/2009/0 ... a-referees#

[yaya]

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

[felarey]

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

The ref already did the same to Anton, he had to be consistent. His was even more blatant than Anton's. The linesman had raised his flag, the ref had blown and the ball had been placed. All this in the dying mins. Could be soft but Alan Wiley had no where to hide given his earlier calls.

[PapaK]

so this cat can actually post on any other topic apart from Arsenal-bashing? and he's even trying to say something intelligent? wonders shall never end?

my own question is why are FIFA/UEFA afraid of technology? Why wont they allow a 4th official to use video replay to help in crucial decisions. A referee decision can decide the outcome of a tight game. Technology can help make this decisions fairer. Hockey, Tennis, Rugby, Cricket, NFL have all embraced it. Why has football remained stuck with the primitive argument that 'mistakes are part of the game'. Mistakes only allows foul play. Why should we continue to embrace mistakes that humans have found a way to overcome?

[anointed]

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

What's debatable about kicking away the ball in a dead ball situation? Man, every professional player knows it's a yellow, and a player already on a yellow should show better restraint. FIFA frowns at dissent without any equivocation.

[anointed]

so this cat can actually post on any other topic apart from Arsenal-bashing? and he's even trying to say something intelligent? wonders shall never end?

my own question is why are FIFA/UEFA afraid of technology? Why wont they allow a 4th official to use video replay to help in crucial decisions. A referee decision can decide the outcome of a tight game. Technology can help make this decisions fairer. Hockey, Tennis, Rugby, Cricket, NFL have all embraced it. Why has football remained stuck with the primitive argument that 'mistakes are part of the game'. Mistakes only allows foul play. Why should we continue to embrace mistakes that humans have found a way to overcome?

Technology for what? I hope you arent saying technology for adjudging a player who kicks away the ball after the ref has blown for an infringement.

[PapaK]

so this cat can actually post on any other topic apart from Arsenal-bashing? and he's even trying to say something intelligent? wonders shall never end?

my own question is why are FIFA/UEFA afraid of technology? Why wont they allow a 4th official to use video replay to help in crucial decisions. A referee decision can decide the outcome of a tight game. Technology can help make this decisions fairer. Hockey, Tennis, Rugby, Cricket, NFL have all embraced it. Why has football remained stuck with the primitive argument that 'mistakes are part of the game'. Mistakes only allows foul play. Why should we continue to embrace mistakes that humans have found a way to overcome?

Technology for what? I hope you arent saying technology for adjudging a player who kicks away the ball after the ref has blown for an infringement.

com'on, we are talking about a lot of ref decisions in general (and not the red card travesty at Old Toilet). We are talking about penalty decisions, offside goals, ball crossing the line or not, elbows that ref cant see, unwarranted red cards. 1 wrong decision like that can decide a match (and unfairly too). Football authorities need to help the ref and technology is the way to do it in 2000-and-something.

[txj]

It is indeed debatable and it was different from Anton's situation. Clearly Richardson was returning the ball to the spot of the FK as opposed to Anton kicking it away to prevent a quick restart.

Not all falls in the box is a dive; not all handballs are fouls; It was a wrong call by the ref and am more suprised that the assistant who was closer did not correct the ref...The situation required the ref to think outside the box..

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

What's debatable about kicking away the ball in a dead ball situation? Man, every professional player knows it's a yellow, and a player already on a yellow should show better restraint. FIFA frowns at dissent without any equivocation.

[anointed]

It is indeed debatable and it was different from Anton's situation. Clearly Richardson was returning the ball to the spot of the FK as opposed to Anton kicking it away to prevent a quick restart.

Not all falls in the box is a dive; not all handballs are fouls; It was a wrong call by the ref and am more suprised that the assistant who was closer did not correct the ref...The situation required the ref to think outside the box..

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

What's debatable about kicking away the ball in a dead ball situation? Man, every professional player knows it's a yellow, and a player already on a yellow should show better restraint. FIFA frowns at dissent without any equivocation.

I bet being txj, you werent likely to have seen that a Man Utd player had jogged towards the ball and was about to pick the ball when Richardson kicked the ball. Tell me, had he fail to kick the ball to return the ball as alleged by you, would he have been carded?

BTW, go and check again; he actually kicked the ball beyond the spot you allege here. If Richardson is coming to equity, he should come with clean hands.

[txj]

Wrong! Richardson had the ball running towards his own goal when play was called back for a foul he committed. He then kicked the ball back in the direction of the foul.

It is indeed debatable and it was different from Anton's situation. Clearly Richardson was returning the ball to the spot of the FK as opposed to Anton kicking it away to prevent a quick restart.

Not all falls in the box is a dive; not all handballs are fouls; It was a wrong call by the ref and am more suprised that the assistant who was closer did not correct the ref...The situation required the ref to think outside the box..

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

What's debatable about kicking away the ball in a dead ball situation? Man, every professional player knows it's a yellow, and a player already on a yellow should show better restraint. FIFA frowns at dissent without any equivocation.

I bet being txj, you werent likely to have seen that a Man Utd player had jogged towards the ball and was about to pick the ball when Richardson kicked the ball. Tell me, had he fail to kick the ball to return the ball as alleged by you, would he have been carded?

BTW, go and check again; he actually kicked the ball beyond the spot you allege here. If Richardson is coming to equity, he should come with clean hands.

[anointed]

Wrong! Richardson had the ball running towards his own goal when play was called back for a foul he committed. He then kicked the ball back in the direction of the foul.

It is indeed debatable and it was different from Anton's situation. Clearly Richardson was returning the ball to the spot of the FK as opposed to Anton kicking it away to prevent a quick restart.

Not all falls in the box is a dive; not all handballs are fouls; It was a wrong call by the ref and am more suprised that the assistant who was closer did not correct the ref...The situation required the ref to think outside the box..

I just saw the Man Utd Game and while there were not many clear screw ups by the ref.. but WTF was that red card for richardson? this is were experiece of the ref is important. Richardson already had one yellow card, he kicked the ball - very very debatable - his kick of the ball could be construed as him asking sunderland to take the FK from the excat spot! yet, the ref gives him a red card? for that? i think a more calm ref would have done better.

What's debatable about kicking away the ball in a dead ball situation? Man, every professional player knows it's a yellow, and a player already on a yellow should show better restraint. FIFA frowns at dissent without any equivocation.

I bet being txj, you werent likely to have seen that a Man Utd player had jogged towards the ball and was about to pick the ball when Richardson kicked the ball. Tell me, had he fail to kick the ball to return the ball as alleged by you, would he have been carded?

BTW, go and check again; he actually kicked the ball beyond the spot you allege here. If Richardson is coming to equity, he should come with clean hands.

Question is had Richardson not booted the ball back, would he have been carded?

And stop trying semantics distortion. The ball had stopped and wasnt running anywhere.

[txj]

Its not semantics; go watch it again...

[anointed]

With time running out, United were offered a glimmer of hope as Richardson foolishly got himself sent off when he kicked the ball away and was cautioned for the second time.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/footbal ... 282374.stm

[kash n' karry]

Da refs have uglified da games these days by being to whistle happy.

[anointed]

Its not semantics; go watch it again...

Why are u telling me to do what I asked you to do?

[txj]

MANCHESTER UNITED 2-2 SUNDERLAND
Fergie slams unfit Wiley
October 3, 2009


Sir Alex Ferguson tonight launched a blistering attack on Alan Wiley, accusing the Staffordshire official of "not being fit enough'' to do his job.

Wiley, the fourth official for last month's controversial Manchester derby, was in charge at Old Trafford this afternoon as an injury-time own-goal from Anton Ferdinand gave United a point against Sunderland in a 2-2 draw.

Ferguson claimed Wiley had not played the correct amount of added time because he had failed to add on an additional minute to the four already signalled once United scored.

"I was disappointed with the referee,'' said the United boss.

"He didn't add on any time for the goal. He played four minutes and two seconds.

"He was also walking up the pitch for the second goal needing a rest. He was not fit enough for a game of that standard.

"The pace of the game demanded a referee who was fit. He was not fit. It is an indictment of our game.

"You see referees abroad who are as fit as butcher's dogs. We have some who are fit. He wasn't fit.

"He was taking 30 seconds to book a player. He was needing a rest. It was ridiculous.''

Ferguson twice headed to the touchline during the second half to make his feelings known about controversial decisions.

At one point, after he felt Anderson was denied a penalty, he jabbed his finger at fourth official Mike Dean and then pointed angrily to the pitch.

Whatever the merits of Ferguson's argument, he will have succeeded in taking the spotlight away from his side, who were indebted to Patrice Evra's deflected shot after they had produced probably their worst performance of the season, with Ben Foster again at fault for the second-half header from Kenwyne Jones that looked like being the winner.

"It was a soft goal to lose,'' admitted Ferguson.

"Our passing was very poor in the first half. In the end we needed to show some great qualities to get something out of the game on a day when we played really badly.''

Sunderland manager Steve Bruce was unhappy with Kieran Richardson, branding his late sending off as "stupid".

"It is hard enough to defend here with 11 players. These things happen in the heat of the moment but it could have cost us the game.''

United used the dismissal to have one last assault at the visitors' goal, with Ferdinand the unlucky man as he deflected Evra's shot past Craig Gordon.

"It is totally disappointing,'' said Bruce. "I don't know what the stat is for the number of times Manchester United have done that but it is what makes this club what it is I suppose.

"It just proves you have to go down to the wire.

"Even when they don't play well, they always seem to get something out of it. And the Ayatollah himself just sits there and watches.

"That is what he has brought to the club. They never give in.''


http://soccernet.espn.go.com/news/story ... nd&cc=5901

[yaya]

WOW...just WOW @ Inter v. Udinese...another refreeing error littered game. just wow. Player use hand take nack ball inside 18 and ref ignored it. That was not ball to hand. the defender raised his hand in the 18!

THEN the hacking down of balotelli in the last minute of the game??