Y THE HECK ARE THEY CALLING ALEX FERGUSON THE "GOAT"?

[kalani]

The problem with Mourinho is the destruction he leaves in pursuit of success. If it doesn't go his way, he sets the house on fire like a psychotic Stan. Will he eclipse Alex, never. He may win titles, but he will never equal the respect and reverence that the former did whilst winning those. Eventually, it will be asked whether Mourinho is able to build a team. An assembly of world beaters doesn't guarantee one success, but offers a helping hand. They still need to be coached and Mourinho does that, achieving expectation on most occasions. Can he exceed the consistency of Ferguson? Will he stay in one place long enough to have his throne challenged time after time? Can he retain titles consistently? Its one thing moving from good club to good club leaving a blaze of glory behind you and another to stay at one club and consistently produce honours. Mourinho knows that, hence his fly by night approach. The longer the king stays seated on the throne, the more knives under cloaks in the chamber room.

...Destruction?What destruction? The Core of the team he built @ Chelsea kept on winning 4-5 years after he left. He left Inter with a team that won everything winnable,including the World Club Cup with Benitez..so what's the destruction you're talking about?The argument can be made that Ferguson never tried himself outside of England(wont even talk about Aberdeen cause that's little factor) in the 26 years...in my neck of the woods you COULD say he was simply a local champion.Most of his peers go elsewhere to toil their trade.I'm amazed that you're buying into this Anti-Mourinho thing yet when he leaves a club most of the players cry.Madrid may be a different story and what exactly was his crime again?He dropped a fan favorite in his quest to build a winning team..and btw..if Mourinho didnt plan to stay @ Madrid, he wouldnot have extended his contract last season...if greedy agents had not gone behind his back to stab it @ Chelsea(turning Roman's head in the process) he may have stayed longer....I think most people that write about Mourinho and blaming him/his legacy have little circumstancial information to contest what's in mostly biased media hype..
Pa

Do you care to explain what you mean by "little factor?" Your argument is getting more and more ridiculous by the minute, and everyone can see it!

I didn't even see that, wow! Beat Celtic and Rangers to a league title 3 times?! Beat Madrid to win the Cup Winners Cup?! Wow, paj stop before it's too late. I dislike the guy too but c'mon.

[Coach]

Who called him a goat and what did Bamenda have to say about this?

[mcal]

Capello, Lippi,Mourinho....abeegi..

...forgive me I don't follow footie that much but did any of them win a treble at some point in their coaching days?

2010. Mou.

...who be Mou? Mourinho? and what titles were they. Thanks in advance.

Domestic Cup, League title, and Champions League.

...at Porto I guess, okay. Just remembered he won champ league at Porto. Thanks!

[kalani]

Capello, Lippi,Mourinho....abeegi..

...forgive me I don't follow footie that much but did any of them win a treble at some point in their coaching days?

2010. Mou.

...who be Mou? Mourinho? and what titles were they. Thanks in advance.

Domestic Cup, League title, and Champions League.

...at Porto I guess, okay. Just remembered he won champ league at Porto. Thanks!

No in 2010 with Internazionale.

[mcal]

Capello, Lippi,Mourinho....abeegi..

...forgive me I don't follow footie that much but did any of them win a treble at some point in their coaching days?

2010. Mou.

...who be Mou? Mourinho? and what titles were they. Thanks in advance.

Domestic Cup, League title, and Champions League.

...at Porto I guess, okay. Just remembered he won champ league at Porto. Thanks!

No in 2010 with Internazionale.

...oh well, that shows my knowledge is limited

[Metho scorpion]

...really...? I bet our own BAMENDA will not like anyone sharing or taking his name away from him...thats sad...

[wiseone]

People make the mistake of assuming that Ferguson had no success before Man Utd. They forget that he was a miracle worker at Aberdeen too.

He worked on a shoe string budget with a small club called Aberdeen where he broke the dominance of Celtic and Rangers. Winning the Scottish title with Aberdeen back then is a bit like winning the EPL with Hull City! He broke a 15 year winning streak of the Old Firm and became the first non Old Firm team to win the SPL in 15 years. Since he left no team apart from Rangers and Celtic has won the Scottish League in 30 years.

His achievement is all the more remarkable when one considers that Rangers and Celtic were loaded back then and were richer than English teams. They were signing the top expensive English talent and taking them up north (not the other way like it is now). The Old Firm signed up top English internationals (remember when Rangers and Celtic were signing players AWAY from English clubs - players like Wilkins, Hateley, Butcher, Stevens, Gascoigne.....).

Under Alex Ferguson's guidance, Aberdeen won three league championships, four Scottish Cups, the European Cup Winner's Cup, the European Super Cup and a League Cup—all in the space of seven years. He won the Scottish Cup in three successive seasons from 1982 to 1984.

Then to top it off, he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Aberdeen - beating Bayern Munich along the way in the semis, and a world class Real Madrid side in the final. I repeat he managed to coach Aberdeen to victory over REAL MADRID AND BAYERN MUNICH to win a European trophy.

When Trappatoni, Lippi, Mourhinho, Guardiola etc win a European trophy with a small town team like Burnley, Hull, Modena, Valladolid or Como - then I'll be convinced they are as great as Ferguson!

[The Notorious B!GGESTMAN]

People make the mistake of assuming that Ferguson had no success before Man Utd. They forget that he was a miracle worker at Aberdeen too.

He worked on a shoe string budget with a small club called Aberdeen where he broke the dominance of Celtic and Rangers. Winning the Scottish title with Aberdeen back then is a bit like winning the EPL with Hull City! He broke a 15 year winning streak of the Old Firm and became the first non Old Firm team to win the SPL in 15 years. Since he left no team apart from Rangers and Celtic has won the Scottish League in 30 years.

His achievement is all the more remarkable when one considers that Rangers and Celtic were loaded back then and were richer than English teams. They were signing the top expensive English talent and taking them up north (not the other way like it is now). The Old Firm signed up top English internationals (remember when Rangers and Celtic were signing players AWAY from English clubs - players like Wilkins, Hateley, Butcher, Stevens, Gascoigne.....).

Under Alex Ferguson's guidance, Aberdeen won three league championships, four Scottish Cups, the European Cup Winner's Cup, the European Super Cup and a League Cup—all in the space of seven years. He won the Scottish Cup in three successive seasons from 1982 to 1984.

Then to top it off, he won the European Cup Winners' Cup with Aberdeen - beating Bayern Munich along the way in the semis, and a world class Real Madrid side in the final. I repeat he managed to coach Aberdeen to victory over REAL MADRID AND BAYERN MUNICH to win a European trophy.

When Trappatoni, Lippi, Mourhinho, Guardiola etc win a European trophy with a small town team like Burnley, Hull, Modena, Valladolid or Como - then I'll be convinced they are as great as Ferguson!

You are saying "people"! The only one who is disputing Fergie's greatness is PaJ, who is proclaiming that Mourinho has already passed him!!! I don't blame him, he only started watching football in 1999 when the US started showing it!

[Cristao II]

Emotions!

More like Ebo and ogogoro.

Don't bring up that Mourinho higher win % bullshit, and I'm a huge fan of the man, Ferguson has been coaching in every single Premier League season to date while Mourinho only was manager for 3 seasons and a half.

Are you ok? Who mentioned Jose?

[kalani]

Emotions!

More like Ebo and ogogoro.

Don't bring up that Mourinho higher win % bullshit, and I'm a huge fan of the man, Ferguson has been coaching in every single Premier League season to date while Mourinho only was manager for 3 seasons and a half.

Are you ok? Who mentioned Jose?

bleh, sorry. It wasn't directed at you, was addressing paj's original post, he spotted it anyway.

[wiseone]

Some interesting things over the last couple of days:

1) Chelsea won their 5th EPL title yesterday under 5 different managers. Arsenal have 3, Man City 2, Blackburn and Leicester with 1 each.

2) Ferguson alone won 13 EPLs. He has won more EPL titles than Wenger, Mourinho, Conte, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Dalglish combined.

3) A few days ago Phil Neville said on NBCSports that Ferguson "wasn't a great tactician" and never set up his teams with great tactics. It jogged my memory about two things I read other great managers say about Ferguson. After facing Man Utd in a Champions League tie in 2000, Real Madrid's manager Vicente del Bosque spoke of Man Utd's "tactical anarchy". In his memoirs Ancelotti also said that under Ferguson Man Utd "did not care about tactics". Instead they tried to play the game at a high tempo that would wear the opposition down, instead of worrying about formations and spatial awareness etc. In his own biography, Ferguson expressed the opinion that there is too much emphasis on tactics in football.

So if Ferguson did not care about tactics, and was not a great tactician, how on earth did he win so many titles?

[Comrade Machel]

Some interesting things over the last couple of days:

1) Chelsea won their 5th EPL title yesterday under 5 different managers. Arsenal have 3, Man City 2, Blackburn and Leicester with 1 each.

2) Ferguson alone won 13 EPLs. He has won more EPL titles than Wenger, Mourinho, Conte, Ancelotti, Ranieri, Dalglish combined.

3) A few days ago Phil Neville said on NBCSports that Ferguson "wasn't a great tactician" and never set up his teams with great tactics. It jogged my memory about two things I read other great managers say about Ferguson. After facing Man Utd in a Champions League tie in 2000, Real Madrid's manager Vicente del Bosque spoke of Man Utd's "tactical anarchy". In his memoirs Ancelotti also said that under Ferguson Man Utd "did not care about tactics". Instead they tried to play the game at a high tempo that would wear the opposition down, instead of worrying about formations and spatial awareness etc. In his own biography, Ferguson expressed the opinion that there is too much emphasis on tactics in football.

So if Ferguson did not care about tactics, and was not a great tactician, how on earth did he win so many titles?

I hated the man bjt later grew to respect him. I remember saying here that man werent really a passing team and of all the top teams at the time their style of play was rather agricultural. They werent as playing on the eye as that Madrid team that schooled them nd had had Redondo and co. But Ferguson was great general who could rally he troops and flew by the seat lf his pants. I mean I cant remember a manager as proactive as Ferguson. If things weren't going well he was very quick to make a substitution unlike what I observe of mainland europe coaches who seem to wait till very late to make subs. Ferguson seemed very involved. Consider the stupid psg coach who persisted with his foolish plan even when it was clear Barcelona meant business. Fergsuon would have changed things tactically and made relevang subs early on

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

e don tay wen some people dey yarn dust for hia...

[Cellular]

e don tay wen some people dey yarn dust for hia...

I don tell PaJ to dey wear facecap to avoid the sun skattering his medulla afuta im lose im hair.

But woosai, bobo na nti ike....

[wiseone]

Spot on about SAF's decisiveness. I recall a Man Utd v Arsenal game in 2012 during which two midfielders from each team (Cleverley and Wilshere) were both on yellow cards with 30 minutes to go. Little things that make the difference between good managers and GREAT managers:

*SAF subbed off Cleverley in order to avoid the risk he will get a second yellow. Wenger leaves Wilshere on the pitch.

*A few minutes later Wilshere goes in for a reckless challenge on Evra, gets a second yellow and is sent off. Arsenal's hopes of a comeback disappear. Man Utd go on to win the game.

The match thread is here: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=227116&hilit=clever ... &start=621

I hated the man bjt later grew to respect him. I remember saying here that man werent really a passing team and of all the top teams at the time their style of play was rather agricultural. They werent as playing on the eye as that Madrid team that schooled them nd had had Redondo and co. But Ferguson was great general who could rally he troops and flew by the seat lf his pants. I mean I cant remember a manager as proactive as Ferguson. If things weren't going well he was very quick to make a substitution unlike what I observe of mainland europe coaches who seem to wait till very late to make subs. Ferguson seemed very involved. Consider the stupid psg coach who persisted with his foolish plan even when it was clear Barcelona meant business. Fergsuon would have changed things tactically and made relevang subs early on

[benteke]

The problem with Mourinho is the destruction he leaves in pursuit of success. If it doesn't go his way, he sets the house on fire like a psychotic Stan. Will he eclipse Alex, never. He may win titles, but he will never equal the respect and reverence that the former did whilst winning those. Eventually, it will be asked whether Mourinho is able to build a team. An assembly of world beaters doesn't guarantee one success, but offers a helping hand. They still need to be coached and Mourinho does that, achieving expectation on most occasions. Can he exceed the consistency of Ferguson? Will he stay in one place long enough to have his throne challenged time after time? Can he retain titles consistently? Its one thing moving from good club to good club leaving a blaze of glory behind you and another to stay at one club and consistently produce honours. Mourinho knows that, hence his fly by night approach. The longer the king stays seated on the throne, the more knives under cloaks in the chamber room.

...Destruction?What destruction? The Core of the team he built @ Chelsea kept on winning 4-5 years after he left. He left Inter with a team that won everything winnable,including the World Club Cup with Benitez..so what's the destruction you're talking about?The argument can be made that Ferguson never tried himself outside of England(wont even talk about Aberdeen cause that's little factor) in the 26 years...in my neck of the woods you COULD say he was simply a local champion.Most of his peers go elsewhere to toil their trade.I'm amazed that you're buying into this Anti-Mourinho thing yet when he leaves a club most of the players cry.Madrid may be a different story and what exactly was his crime again?He dropped a fan favorite in his quest to build a winning team..and btw..if Mourinho didnt plan to stay @ Madrid, he wouldnot have extended his contract last season...if greedy agents had not gone behind his back to stab it @ Chelsea(turning Roman's head in the process) he may have stayed longer....I think most people that write about Mourinho and blaming him/his legacy have little circumstancial information to contest what's in mostly biased media hype..
Pa

Mourinho is now at Manchester United, with all the money availed to him, let's see if he can surpass Fergie's achievements.

[wiseone]

After this thread is moved to World Football...

I often say that Alex Ferguson's best work was at Aberdeen (not Man Utd). Based on his work at Aberdeen alone he would still have been a managerial great had he retired in 1986 and never taken the Man Utd job.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/20 ... 0-years-on

The night Alex Ferguson’s Aberdeen rocked Real Madrid: 40 years on
Players from Ferguson’s extraordinary Aberdeen side recall a ‘miracle’ as Madrid fell to defeat in a major European cup final

Alex Reid
Wed 10 May 2023 05.01 EDT
Share on FacebookShare on TwitterShare via Email
“Nothing short of a miracle” is how Sir Alex Ferguson has described the most astonishing victory of his managerial career. It came against Real Madrid but not during his 26-year spell at Manchester United. Thursday marks 40 years since Real last encountered defeat in a major European competition final: against Aberdeen in the Cup Winners’ Cup.

Ferguson achieved that 2-1 extra-time win with a group of young players who were a precursor for his “Class of 92” at United featuring Paul Scholes, Ryan Giggs, David Beckham, Nicky Butt and the Neville brothers. These were Fergie’s first fledglings, and had injury and ill-fortune not hurt their careers, they could have soared to even greater heights.

Sir Alex Ferguson's European evolution began at Aberdeen | Kevin McCarra
What the Aberdeen players of 1983 experienced was an even more fearsome Ferguson than the one who eventually ended his career at Old Trafford. “He probably mellowed to a typhoon by then,” says Eric Black, the striker who scored Aberdeen’s opening goal against Real at the age of 19.


“He was a ferocious leader at that time, because he was trying to build a reputation. He was incredibly demanding and he created an atmosphere that was semi-confrontational, within the players as well, to ensure we had that winning mentality and he got the last percentage out of everybody.”

Real have competed in 10 European competition finals since their defeat by Aberdeen in Gothenburg: eight in the Champions League/European Cup, two in the Uefa Cup. What makes Ferguson’s team’s feat even more remarkable is the age of his side. Every Aberdeen player who featured in the final was 28 or under. But four young Scottish players stand out: the goalscorers Black and John Hewitt, 20; and starting midfielders Neale Cooper, 19, and Neil Simpson, the relative veteran of the quartet at 21.

Each would feel the full force of Fergie’s wrath on occasion. Hewitt, the super-sub whose diving header sunk Real on a rain-swept night, had been Ferguson’s first signing at Aberdeen in 1979. He made his debut at 16 but none of this entitled the forward to any special privileges.


“One time we were training in the winter, the weather wasn’t great and there was snow covering the ground so we trained somewhere indoors,” Hewitt says. “We were heading back to Pittodrie stadium, I had a car full of players and Sir Alex was in front of us doing about 10mph in his Mercedes – if he’d went any slower I could probably have got out of the car and walked past him.

“The boys were urging me on to pass him – but as we did, they wound down the windows and waved and that sort of infuriated him. By the time we got back to the dressing room, he burst in and I got the: ‘You bloody maniac Hewitt! What do you think you’re doing? You could have crashed! The roads are treacherous and you’re driving like that with millions of pounds worth of talent in your car?’ He went on and on.”

Hewitt ended up with a fine, £20 taken from his weekly wages, but it could have been worse. He recalls bespoke punishments dreamed up by the manager and the assistant, Archie Knox, a “bad cop, worse cop” double act. They included cleaning one of the pair’s cars or a player babysitting for the Fergusons.

Sometimes even victory was not enough to sate Ferguson. Ten days after that monumental 120 minutes against Real Madrid, Aberdeen met Rangers in the Scottish Cup final and understandably produced a weary and subpar performance. They triumphed nonetheless, cup final specialist Black heading the only goal in extra time.

Aberdeen supporters outside the Ullevi Stadium before the historic night.
Aberdeen supporters outside the Ullevi Stadium before the historic night. Photograph: Colorsport/Shutterstock
Unbeknown to the players in the Hampden dressing room celebrating their second trophy of the month, Ferguson, with a face like thunder, was tearing most of them to shreds in a TV interview. “A disgrace of a performance,” he raged, sparing only his two centre-backs. “[Willie] Miller and [Alex] McLeish played Rangers by themselves … winning cups doesn’t matter. Our standards have been set long ago and I’m not going to accept that from any Aberdeen team.”

Black recalls jubilant scenes in the changing room, “then all of a sudden, the door went screaming open – and it was like the sheriff coming into the saloon bar in the wild west. The door was rattling on its hinges and he just went ballistic at us. That put a bit of a dampener on everything.”

The celebratory meal at Gleneagles had the atmosphere of a wake and at least one player, Gordon Strachan, left in protest at the manager’s reaction. In fact, this was a rare occasion where Ferguson apparently realised he’d gone too far and backed down. “He did apologise to some degree,” says Black, laughing. “I think Archie Knox spoke to him and got him to apologise for maybe going overboard a little bit. But I’m not sure it was that genuine to be honest.”

Amid the tough love, however, Ferguson inspired loyalty verging on reverence among his players. As later at Manchester United, his eagerness for promoting youth at Aberdeen was twofold. First it was incredibly cost-effective. Second he could nurture these young players, creating a siege mentality and fuelling an insatiable hunger to win. “Sir Alex didn’t allow anybody to linger on any success; once you’d achieved the aims, it was on to the next one,” says Black.

What stands out about Aberdeen’s Cup Winners’ Cup triumph is that the lineup of teams was extraordinarily strong. The quarter-finals also included Barcelona, Internazionale, Paris Saint-Germain and the team Aberdeen defeated to reach the semi-finals: Bayern Munich. “Bayern were laden with West Germany internationals – by far the best team we faced in the competition,” says Hewitt.

Bayern, who had been in the previous season’s European Cup final, were shocked by Aberdeen in a style that would become familiar to followers of Ferguson’s United. After a 0-0 draw in the first leg, Bayern led 1-0 then 2-1 in Scotland. Aberdeen scored twice with less than 15 minutes left, Hewitt – in a prelude to the final – coming off the bench to score the winner.


Aberdeen went on to win the following season’s Super Cup, defeating Hamburg over two legs, and broke apart the Old Firm stranglehold at home. But the question asked later was why this quartet of youngsters, who played a vital role in besting some of Europe’s elite, did not have the longevity to match their dazzling early success.

Black retired at 28 because of a persistent back injury. Hewitt, Simpson and Cooper also struggled badly with injuries in their late 20s, causing their careers to tail off. Between four players who looked like the nucleus of a future Scotland team, only seven caps were earned (two for Black, five for midfield dynamo Simpson).

Michael Crick’s 2002 biography, The Boss: The Many Sides of Alex Ferguson, posits the theory that the manager would later come to believe he had possibly pushed these young footballers too hard, too young. “There were players shattered at 25 and you have to ask yourself why,” Ferguson is quoted as saying. “Maybe they had too much first-team football with all the pressure that brings.”

Cooper, the team’s grinning, golden-curled holding midfielder who performed a spot-on Ferguson impression, told the Scotsman in 2016: “We were overplayed and Fergie admits that. I’m wrecked now and couldn’t go for a run if I wanted. Playing golf the other day I had to use a buggy but still ended up hurting my left knee … Eric’s in so much pain with his back. If you were slightly injured you were scared to say because you’d be thought a jessie so you played anyway.”

Alex Ferguson takes a training session before the final in Gothenburg.
Alex Ferguson takes a training session before the final in Gothenburg. Photograph: Colorsport/Shutterstock
Cooper died in 2018 at the age of 54. But his friends and former teammates reflect his overall views when they say that the benefits of Ferguson’s influence on their lives far outweigh any negatives. Black says of whether being overplayed at a young age contributed to his injury issues: “I really don’t think so to be honest. I look back on it now and I wouldn’t change it for anything … I certainly don’t blame anybody. It was what it was. And I was very fortunate to be a part of that Aberdeen team.”

Hewitt’s view is that it was more of a reflection of attitudes in the 80s, when rotation and managing workloads were barely a concern, rather than anything particular to Ferguson. “When we were young, you used to play for your school on a Saturday morning, with your boys’ club on a Saturday afternoon, you’d be playing again on a Sunday,” he says. “It was three games in two days. Nowadays it’s so different for the young players. Things have moved on, it’s all about sports science, diet, recovery.”

Nonetheless, Ferguson’s treatment of young players at United gradually altered. Although the generation of Giggs, Scholes and Beckham were given responsibility at a young age – particularly during the 1995-96 “You’ll never win anything with kids” season – they were also rigorously protected; both from intense media interest and from themselves as the manager keenly monitored their playing time. This may, in part, explain their extraordinary longevity compared with their counterparts a decade earlier at Aberdeen.

In Ferguson’s defence, the prevailing wisdom was that if you were good enough, you were old enough. And not one of his Aberdeen players look back with regret over that trophy-laden era.


When Ferguson first met Alfredo Di Stéfano, the Real legend and the club’s manager in 1983, he came armed with a bottle of whisky. Inspired by the legendary Jock Stein, then the Scotland manager, Ferguson presented it to Di Stéfano as a gift. “Let him feel important,” Stein advised, “as if you are thrilled just to be in the final.” Whether or not Di Stéfano knew Ferguson was acting starstruck while plotting his side’s downfall, he was generous after the match. “Aberdeen have what money can’t buy: a soul, a team spirit,” he said.

Hewitt reflects now that: “It was so nice to be part of a special group of boys, being managed by the best there’s ever been – it’s something I can’t fully explain. The city was buzzing back in the 80s, the fans were getting to cup finals every season, they were travelling in Europe – we the oil boom as well – so everything was blooming about the city. I was so proud to be a part of it.”

Aberdeen ’83: Once in a Lifetime is on BBC iPlayer from Thursday 11 May.

[wiseone]

MOVE TO WORLD FOOTBALL

Ferguson retired over 10 years ago. Yet Ancelotti only just beat his record.

[Enugu II]

.....I keep hearing people,especially Manure fans, referring to Ferguson as the "Greatest Of All Time" as a coach? WTH? He's been splendid for Manure and in England but that's too heavy a crown to bestow upon him biko!There are others coaches who are/have been better...abeg abeg abeg..make dem cool down small biko!

How is this appropriate for this site? Mods need to do their job and move it to the appropriate site.........

[balo]

e don tay wen some people dey yarn dust for hia...

Where's Chief Ogbunigwe? Hope the brother is alright.

[wiseone]

Happy 82nd birthday to SAF:

[King Futcha]

legend in two games like im Pee Wee Kirkland

[kajifu]

Is Pep better than oga Sir Alex?