Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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Opened.
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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What a pathetic money miss road United
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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The tie was lost in the last 10 minutes of the 1st leg when Man Utd conceded those 2 own goals. I doubt whether Maguire will be at the club next season.
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:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:32 am The tie was lost in the last 10 minutes of the 1st leg when Man Utd conceded those 2 own goals. I doubt whether Maguire will be at the club next season.
...he is an Englander are sure? If he were any other could have gone for the longest time.
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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I have said over and over again that playing out from the back is a risky and unnecessary tactic. Just because Pep's Barcelona and Man City did it well, every team across the world tries to copy it - even though they do not have technically brilliant players like Iniesta, Xavi, KDB, Silva and GKs like Ederson and Valdes with feet like outfield players who can receive the ball in tight spaces while being pressed, and still pass their way out of trouble.

Every single week, we see top level professional teams concede calamitous goals by trying to pass the ball in and around their box, and get dispossessed only a few yards from goal.

Yet they persist with this reckless tactic. WHY?
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:38 pm I have said over and over again that playing out from the back is a risky and unnecessary tactic. Just because Pep's Barcelona and Man City did it well, every team across the world tries to copy it - even though they do not have technically brilliant players like Iniesta, Xavi, KDB, Silva and GKs like Ederson and Valdes with feet like outfield players who can receive the ball in tight spaces while being pressed, and still pass their way out of trouble.

Every single week, we see top level professional teams concede calamitous goals by trying to pass the ball in and around their box, and get dispossessed only a few yards from goal.

Yet they persist with this reckless tactic. WHY?
It's a very attractive piece of play, when done well the rewards can be exciting, from kick off it can suddenly turn into a 3 vs 2 on the other end and goal.

And its not Pep's teams only that do it well, many many do it week in week out.

The long ball option has many disadvantages, it's almost like giving away posession every time
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:16 pm
wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:38 pm I have said over and over again that playing out from the back is a risky and unnecessary tactic. Just because Pep's Barcelona and Man City did it well, every team across the world tries to copy it - even though they do not have technically brilliant players like Iniesta, Xavi, KDB, Silva and GKs like Ederson and Valdes with feet like outfield players who can receive the ball in tight spaces while being pressed, and still pass their way out of trouble.

Every single week, we see top level professional teams concede calamitous goals by trying to pass the ball in and around their box, and get dispossessed only a few yards from goal.

Yet they persist with this reckless tactic. WHY?
It's a very attractive piece of play, when done well the rewards can be exciting, from kick off it can suddenly turn into a 3 vs 2 on the other end and goal.

And its not Pep's teams only that do it well, many many do it week in week out.

The long ball option has many disadvantages, it's almost like giving away posession every time
Spot on. Even with Pep, we saw so many comical moments at the beginning of his experiment at Man City and endless trials and errors with several players bought and sold to find the right fits. He did not even inherit the magnitude of mess we got at Man United post-Ferguson.

Ten Hag is less than a year on the job and a complete cleanup is beyond his control, it has to be gradual and some new acquisitions don't adapt quickly so we just have to enjoy the ride. He already won the league cup, he is sitting 3rd on the EPL table, and in the semi-final of the FA cup. Not bad considering the massive confusion at the end of last season. However, come August, the honeymoon is over and no more excuses.
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:38 pm I have said over and over again that playing out from the back is a risky and unnecessary tactic. Just because Pep's Barcelona and Man City did it well, every team across the world tries to copy it - even though they do not have technically brilliant players like Iniesta, Xavi, KDB, Silva and GKs like Ederson and Valdes with feet like outfield players who can receive the ball in tight spaces while being pressed, and still pass their way out of trouble.

Every single week, we see top level professional teams concede calamitous goals by trying to pass the ball in and around their box, and get dispossessed only a few yards from goal.

Yet they persist with this reckless tactic. WHY?
Pep didn’t start this trend.

Anyway, try watching a game and see how many times a team that hoofs the ball forward loses possession.
An air ball is a 50/50 ball that an opponent can use to attack you right away. Why punish yourself this way?
And a long pass away from your goal has a high interception risk.
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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If you hoof the ball to the halfway line or into the opponent's half and give away possession there - so what?! The ball ⚽️ is now safely 70 yards away from your goal in an area of the pitch where the opponent is not going to score from. In fact, giving away possession far away from your goal makes life harder for the opponent and easier for your team because the opponent now has to travel 70 yards and play about 10 passes to get near your goal again. While they are trying to go do that, you give your team time to regain their shape AND rest while the opponent is rebuilding.

I would say that passing the ball inside your own penalty area is far worse punishment as your team has no time to reset and the opponent is only 10-20 yards from your goal.
Kabalega wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:32 pm Anyway, try watching a game and see how many times a team that hoofs the ball forward loses possession.
An air ball is a 50/50 ball that an opponent can use to attack you right away. Why punish yourself this way?
And a long pass away from your goal has a high interception risk.
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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YemiBrazil wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:20 pm
benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:16 pm
wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:38 pm I have said over and over again that playing out from the back is a risky and unnecessary tactic. Just because Pep's Barcelona and Man City did it well, every team across the world tries to copy it - even though they do not have technically brilliant players like Iniesta, Xavi, KDB, Silva and GKs like Ederson and Valdes with feet like outfield players who can receive the ball in tight spaces while being pressed, and still pass their way out of trouble.

Every single week, we see top level professional teams concede calamitous goals by trying to pass the ball in and around their box, and get dispossessed only a few yards from goal.

Yet they persist with this reckless tactic. WHY?
It's a very attractive piece of play, when done well the rewards can be exciting, from kick off it can suddenly turn into a 3 vs 2 on the other end and goal.

And its not Pep's teams only that do it well, many many do it week in week out.

The long ball option has many disadvantages, it's almost like giving away posession every time
Spot on. Even with Pep, we saw so many comical moments at the beginning of his experiment at Man City and endless trials and errors with several players bought and sold to find the right fits. He did not even inherit the magnitude of mess we got at Man United post-Ferguson.

Ten Hag is less than a year on the job and a complete cleanup is beyond his control, it has to be gradual and some new acquisitions don't adapt quickly so we just have to enjoy the ride. He already won the league cup, he is sitting 3rd on the EPL table, and in the semi-final of the FA cup. Not bad considering the massive confusion at the end of last season. However, come August, the honeymoon is over and no more excuses.
Yes.
It's also why Pep replaced Joe Hart with a new keeper and then also replaced that keeper as well. Then also replaced a lot of fullbacks spending around 200million.
All just to make that kind of play work well every week.
Even Arsenal suffered a lot when Unai Emery was starting it with Petr Czech, but now some years later they do it well every week and destroy teams in a few well practiced moves beginning at the back
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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Benteke, I am not saying that teams should "hoof it" every time. I am saying that defenders should smash the ball into the back of the main stand when their team is under pressure and being closed down close to their penalty area. No team has ever conceded a goal from a shot taken from the main stand.

Faffing about with the ball inside the penalty area is far more risky, and every week we see goals conceded because of doing that. We see far less goals conceded because a defender blasted the ball 70 yards up the field.
benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 2:16 pm
It's a very attractive piece of play, when done well the rewards can be exciting, from kick off it can suddenly turn into a 3 vs 2 on the other end and goal.

And its not Pep's teams only that do it well, many many do it week in week out.

The long ball option has many disadvantages, it's almost like giving away posession every time
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:49 pm Benteke, I am not saying that teams should "hoof it" every time. I am saying that defenders should smash the ball into the back of the main stand when their team is under pressure and being closed down close to their penalty area. No team has ever conceded a goal from a shot taken from the main stand.

Faffing about with the ball inside the penalty area is far more risky, and every week we see goals conceded because of doing that. We see far less goals conceded because a defender blasted the ball 70 yards up the field.
OK i get your point.
But i am guessing many teams don't like having to continuously defend set pieces like corner kicks that result from hoofing it to the stands.
They are probably told to try and keep posession as much as possible
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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About 97% of corners do not result in a goal. Hence a team can hoof the ball into the main stand all season long - safe in the knowledge that even if they do that 100 times during a season, only about 3 goals will result from it.

Now, if that team instead plays 100 hair brained passes in their box like the one between De Gea and Maguire yesterday. How many goals do you reckon they will concede from doing that?

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-pre ... or-scoring
benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:56 pm OK i get your point.
But i am guessing many teams don't like having to continuously defend set pieces like corner kicks that result from hoofing it to the stands.
They are probably told to try and keep posession as much as possible
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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I agree with your point on that. Players should use their common sense and work on their anticipation. Maguire knows his limitations, De Gea knows his limitations, they should use their common sense and know when to adopt a safety first approach. Their mistakes yesterday were comical and a disgrace. Maguire's anticipation is probably the worst in modern football.
wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:33 pm About 97% of corners do not result in a goal. Hence a team can hoof the ball into the main stand all season long - safe in the knowledge that even if they do that 100 times during a season, only about 3 goals will result from it.

Now, if that team instead plays 100 hair brained passes in their box like the one between De Gea and Maguire yesterday. How many goals do you reckon they will concede from doing that?

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-pre ... or-scoring
benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:56 pm OK i get your point.
But i am guessing many teams don't like having to continuously defend set pieces like corner kicks that result from hoofing it to the stands.
They are probably told to try and keep posession as much as possible
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 5:33 pm About 97% of corners do not result in a goal. Hence a team can hoof the ball into the main stand all season long - safe in the knowledge that even if they do that 100 times during a season, only about 3 goals will result from it.

Now, if that team instead plays 100 hair brained passes in their box like the one between De Gea and Maguire yesterday. How many goals do you reckon they will concede from doing that?

https://www.espn.com/soccer/english-pre ... or-scoring
benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 4:56 pm OK i get your point.
But i am guessing many teams don't like having to continuously defend set pieces like corner kicks that result from hoofing it to the stands.
They are probably told to try and keep posession as much as possible
That stat looks unreal :biggrin:
Why then do English teams and fans take delight in winning corner kicks, the crowds get worked up its like they've won a penalty :laugh:

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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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It is a quirk of British football. I remember Xabi Alonso did an interview saying he was so confused when he first came to play in England as he could not understand why fans cheered when a team gave away a corner or a throw in.
benteke wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 6:28 pm That stat looks unreal :biggrin:
Why then do English teams and fans take delight in winning corner kicks, the crowds get worked up its like they've won a penalty :laugh:

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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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As I was saying...


wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 12:38 pm I have said over and over again that playing out from the back is a risky and unnecessary tactic. Just because Pep's Barcelona and Man City did it well, every team across the world tries to copy it - even though they do not have technically brilliant players like Iniesta, Xavi, KDB, Silva and GKs like Ederson and Valdes with feet like outfield players who can receive the ball in tight spaces while being pressed, and still pass their way out of trouble.

Every single week, we see top level professional teams concede calamitous goals by trying to pass the ball in and around their box, and get dispossessed only a few yards from goal.

Yet they persist with this reckless tactic. WHY?
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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So what? Well, your team now has to work hard to get the ball back, again.
And once you get that ball back, you will give it away again, and again, and again and again, and ….
You get the drift?

Your team will end up wasting resources winning the ball back and dealing with the opponent’s attacks.
That’s why they say keeping the ball is a form of defense.

wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:57 pm If you hoof the ball to the halfway line or into the opponent's half and give away possession there - so what?! The ball ⚽️ is now safely 70 yards away from your goal in an area of the pitch where the opponent is not going to score from. In fact, giving away possession far away from your goal makes life harder for the opponent and easier for your team because the opponent now has to travel 70 yards and play about 10 passes to get near your goal again. While they are trying to go do that, you give your team time to regain their shape AND rest while the opponent is rebuilding.

I would say that passing the ball inside your own penalty area is far worse punishment as your team has no time to reset and the opponent is only 10-20 yards from your goal.
Kabalega wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 3:32 pm Anyway, try watching a game and see how many times a team that hoofs the ball forward loses possession.
An air ball is a 50/50 ball that an opponent can use to attack you right away. Why punish yourself this way?
And a long pass away from your goal has a high interception risk.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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Modern football has brainwashed us into thinking that possession is the aim of the game. The team that wins is the team that scores the most goals, not the team that plays the most passes inside its penalty area.

I would rather give away possession than give away goals. Goals win trophies. No team has ever won a football match because they had more possession..

Indeed, some elite coaches like Mourinho and Simeone deliberately give the ball to the opposition as a tactic (Mourinho actually said that the team with the ball is under more pressure because of the psychological pressure not to play a bad pass or make a mistake).


Kabalega wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:59 pm So what? Well, your team now has to work hard to get the ball back, again.
And once you get that ball back, you will give it away again, and again, and again and again, and ….
You get the drift?

Your team will end up wasting resources winning the ball back and dealing with the opponent’s attacks.
That’s why they say keeping the ball is a form of defense.
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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You really thing that English football changed from route 1 footie because of brainwashing?
To intentionally give away possession and win a game takes the right players, just like possession play does.
It takes a strong mental fortitude to withstand waves of attack for 90+ minutes.

If all things are equal, possession play wins more often than not.
wiseone wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 9:11 pm Modern football has brainwashed us into thinking that possession is the aim of the game. The team that wins is the team that scores the most goals, not the team that plays the most passes inside its penalty area.

I would rather give away possession than give away goals. Goals win trophies. No team has ever won a football match because they had more possession..

Indeed, some elite coaches like Mourinho and Simeone deliberately give the ball to the opposition as a tactic (Mourinho actually said that the team with the ball is under more pressure because of the psychological pressure not to play a bad pass or make a mistake).


Kabalega wrote: Fri Apr 21, 2023 8:59 pm So what? Well, your team now has to work hard to get the ball back, again.
And once you get that ball back, you will give it away again, and again, and again and again, and ….
You get the drift?

Your team will end up wasting resources winning the ball back and dealing with the opponent’s attacks.
That’s why they say keeping the ball is a form of defense.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
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Re: Manchester United - News, Developments & Season

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just in case the money miss road united peps missed this

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