Big Six sign up for new European Super League

[Adisboy]

It’s all what the fans want

You are definitely living on another planet for making the statement above. If you know the outrage going on right now, trust me, i live in the UK, you'll wonder how this would get off the ground. Even the government has waded into the matter. The PM is saying they are looking at ways to stop this from happening.

As i was saying earlier.....

[cic old boy]

[cic old boy]

@CIC, 3 teams remaining, think the Yanks could fashion a winner stays on, one and off contest. Combatants lock horns for however long it takes for the first goal to be scored. Immediately the conceding team leave the field and the next team comes on. Winner stays on. First winner to 3 consecutive wins, wins the Super League daily trophy. In the event that there’s been no winner after 9 rounds, a sudden death penalty shootout, with Hollywoodesque firework displays and exploding buildings in the background for good measure. Guest referees for all matches, with introduction of a Green Card to add to the yellow and red. The ref is allowed to flash the green as they please, which permits his preferred side to field an extra player or remove one from the opponent.

Think the Cowboys will be interested?

Txj is still examining the details for what it means for Edo College to join.

[txj]

@CIC, 3 teams remaining, think the Yanks could fashion a winner stays on, one and off contest. Combatants lock horns for however long it takes for the first goal to be scored. Immediately the conceding team leave the field and the next team comes on. Winner stays on. First winner to 3 consecutive wins, wins the Super League daily trophy. In the event that there’s been no winner after 9 rounds, a sudden death penalty shootout, with Hollywoodesque firework displays and exploding buildings in the background for good measure. Guest referees for all matches, with introduction of a Green Card to add to the yellow and red. The ref is allowed to flash the green as they please, which permits his preferred side to field an extra player or remove one from the opponent.

Think the Cowboys will be interested?

The issues here have not gone away. It doesn't matter that the ESL will not go fwd. As long as those fundamental issues remain, so will the idea of a SL.

The problem is that there's a lot of ignorance and a lot of peeps with different agendas latching on to popular sentiment.

You are an Arsenal fan, as I am a Liverpool fan.

Both our clubs are operating on a sustainable football financing model, where the club pays for itself from its work on the field and outside of it.

But then they are both competing against City with a sovereign wealth fund and Chelsea with a Russian oligarch backed fund.

While you can sing kumbaya with Chelsea fans, the financial framework under which your team has to compete in the league, esp with FFP scrapped, is such that you are fundamentally at a disadvantage.

The EPL is not owned by the FA. So why would UEFA own the UCL and seek to own it exclusively?

These are the fundamental issues and they do not go away, unless Cefferin pays these teams a lot more money...

[Coach]

Side track, did anyone see the Schalke players fleeing the team bus and running for safety, angry mob of fans hunting them down. It’s more than a game.

[danfo driver]

You seem hurt

@CIC, 3 teams remaining, think the Yanks could fashion a winner stays on, one and off contest. Combatants lock horns for however long it takes for the first goal to be scored. Immediately the conceding team leave the field and the next team comes on. Winner stays on. First winner to 3 consecutive wins, wins the Super League daily trophy. In the event that there’s been no winner after 9 rounds, a sudden death penalty shootout, with Hollywoodesque firework displays and exploding buildings in the background for good measure. Guest referees for all matches, with introduction of a Green Card to add to the yellow and red. The ref is allowed to flash the green as they please, which permits his preferred side to field an extra player or remove one from the opponent.

Think the Cowboys will be interested?

The issues here have not gone away. It doesn't matter that the ESL will not go fwd. As long as those fundamental issues remain, so will the idea of a SL.

The problem is that there's a lot of ignorance and a lot of peeps with different agendas latching on to popular sentiment.

You are an Arsenal fan, as I am a Liverpool fan.

Both our clubs are operating on a sustainable football financing model, where the club pays for itself from its work on the field and outside of it.

But then they are both competing against City with a sovereign wealth fund and Chelsea with a Russian oligarch backed fund.

While you can sing kumbaya with Chelsea fans, the financial framework under which your team has to compete in the league, esp with FFP scrapped, is such that you are fundamentally at a disadvantage.

The EPL is not owned by the FA. So why would UEFA own the UCL and seek to own it exclusively?

These are the fundamental issues and they do not go away, unless Cefferin pays these teams a lot more money...

[danfo driver]

Side track, did anyone see the Schalke players fleeing the team bus and running for safety, angry mob of fans hunting them down. It’s more than a game.

No, but we saw Mourinho ravaging you angrily and you refused to run for safety.

[Coach]

^For all the firing neurones, action potentials and chemical transmitters, for all the grey matter and cerebral autoregulation, yet another homoerotic reference. The studies on thought creation discuss the pathogenesis of the things we think. Food for thought, assuming those rainbow laced axons aren’t watching their weight.

[Sleaky72]

You are an Arsenal fan, as I am a Liverpool fan.

Both our clubs are operating on a sustainable football financing model, where the club pays for itself from its work on the field and outside of it.

But then they are both competing against City with a sovereign wealth fund and Chelsea with a Russian oligarch backed fund.

While you can sing kumbaya with Chelsea fans, the financial framework under which your team has to compete in the league, esp with FFP scrapped, is such that you are fundamentally at a disadvantage.

TXJ,
Who can argue with such a well thought out and lucid argument like this.

The EPL is not owned by the FA. So why would UEFA own the UCL and seek to own it exclusively?

These are the fundamental issues and they do not go away, unless Cefferin pays these teams a lot more money...

After making such a reasonable prior point you then proceed with the above which is a total Straw man argument and a head shaker and scratcher.
The analogy makes no sense to the actions taken by the 12.
The owner of the team you support has already said his action were ill thought out, just like his plans to furlough during the pandemic among other stupid actions, and yet you are still debating, what again??

Regardless of what their end goal was, their actions were ill conceived and the execution even worse.
Dunno if you are trying to be a contrarian or really believe in their actions.
They have failed, and failed so miserably and prolly killed any chance of engaging in this in the future.
They have also empowered the masses who will now be vigilant.
Talk about totally misreading the room.

This is exactly how revolutions are borne.
It’s usually from the over reach by those @ the top
that becomes the final straw.
This horribly conceived idea was so abhorrent that it
Hit right at the heart of European football and that why
there was such a untied and vociferous backlash.
If anyone can’t fail to grasp this then .....

[Ipe Grams]

You are an Arsenal fan, as I am a Liverpool fan.

Both our clubs are operating on a sustainable football financing model, where the club pays for itself from its work on the field and outside of it.

But then they are both competing against City with a sovereign wealth fund and Chelsea with a Russian oligarch backed fund.

While you can sing kumbaya with Chelsea fans, the financial framework under which your team has to compete in the league, esp with FFP scrapped, is such that you are fundamentally at a disadvantage.

TXJ,
Who can argue with such a well thought out and lucid argument like this.

The EPL is not owned by the FA. So why would UEFA own the UCL and seek to own it exclusively?

These are the fundamental issues and they do not go away, unless Cefferin pays these teams a lot more money...

After making such a reasonable prior point you then proceed with the above which is a total Straw man argument and a head shaker and scratcher.
The analogy makes no sense to the actions taken by the 12.
The owner of the team you support has already said his action were ill thought out, just like his plans to furlough during the pandemic among other stupid actions, and yet you are still debating, what again??

Regardless of what their end goal was, their actions were ill conceived and the execution even worse.
Dunno if you are trying to be a contrarian or really believe in their actions.
They have failed, and failed so miserably and prolly killed any chance of engaging in this in the future.
They have also empowered the masses who will now be vigilant.
Talk about totally misreading the room.

Honestly txj tries to come across like an ITK when he actually knows nothing. UEFA created and owns the CL. They can create their ESL and they have to consult and get approval from UEFA who would be the one's to regulate the league as well.

[danfo driver]

^For all the firing neurones, action potentials and chemical transmitters, for all the grey matter and cerebral autoregulation, yet another homoerotic reference. The studies on thought creation discuss the pathogenesis of the things we think. Food for thought, assuming those rainbow laced axons aren’t watching their weight.

Shebi you go use iodine wash mouth, later?

[Mr. Piffington]

What these past 48 hours has taught me is that all this idealistic talk about the "right way", "greed", "for the fans" is just feel good talk. The reality is that everyone is fighting for their interests, from UEFA/FIFA to the FA to the big clubs to lower league clubs. UEFA doesn't want to lose the revenue these big clubs generate, the big clubs want more money, the fans of the big clubs want to maintain their dominance by using their financial advantage to beat up the smaller clubs, fans of the traditional clubs view new money clubs like Chelsea, PSG, and my very own City as a threat to their dominance so they don't want true parity, they want a return to the good old days. The canon fodder clubs don't want to lose significant income that will happen if the big clubs left or stop paying much attention to the league. The government is pandering to voters, the players and managers sat and watched which way the tide was going as they didn't want to be caught backing the wrong horse in case the super league thing grew legs.

Meanwhile real issues like racism doesn't get the same energy, you'll get symbolic gestures for a minute then it's "Oh well, I've done my part, back to football."

[cic old boy]

Joel Glazer's apology captures some of my points.

To all Manchester United supporters,

Over the past few days, we have all witnessed the great passion which football generates, and the deep loyalty our fans have for this great club.
You made very clear your opposition to the European Super League, and we have listened. We got it wrong, and we want to show that we can put things right.

Although the wounds are raw and I understand that it will take time for the scars to heal, I am personally committed to rebuilding trust with our fans and learning from the message you delivered with such conviction.

We continue to believe that European football needs to become more sustainable throughout the pyramid for the long-term. However, we fully accept that the Super League was not the right way to go about it.

In seeking to create a more stable foundation for the game, we failed to show enough respect for its deep-rooted traditions –promotion, relegation, the pyramid – and for that we are sorry.

This is the world’s greatest football club and we apologise unreservedly for the unrest caused during these past few days.

It is important for us to put that right.

Manchester United has a rich heritage and we recognise our responsibility to live up to its great traditions and values.

The pandemic has thrown up so many unique challenges and we are proud of the way Manchester United and its fans from Manchester and around the world have reacted to the enormous pressures during this period.

We also realise that we need to better communicate with you, our fans, because you will always be at the heart of the club.

In the background, you can be sure that we will be taking the necessary steps to rebuild relationships with other stakeholders across the game, with a view to working together on solutions to the long-term challenges facing the football pyramid.

Right now, our priority is to continue to support all of our teams as they push for the strongest possible finish to the season.

In closing, I would like to recognise that it is your support which makes this club so great, and we thank you for that.

With best regards,

Joel Glazer
https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/j ... ce=twitter#

[cic old boy]

What these past 48 hours has taught me is that all this idealistic talk about the "right way", "greed", "for the fans" is just feel good talk. The reality is that everyone is fighting for their interests, from UEFA/FIFA to the FA to the big clubs to lower league clubs. UEFA doesn't want to lose the revenue these big clubs generate, the big clubs want more money, the fans of the big clubs want to maintain their dominance by using their financial advantage to beat up the smaller clubs, fans of the traditional clubs view new money clubs like Chelsea, PSG, and my very own City as a threat to their dominance so they don't want true parity, they want a return to the good old days. The canon fodder clubs don't want to lose significant income that will happen if the big clubs left or stop paying much attention to the league. The government is pandering to voters, the players and managers sat and watched which way the tide was going as they didn't want to be caught backing the wrong horse in case the super league thing grew legs.

Meanwhile real issues like racism doesn't get the same energy, you'll get symbolic gestures for a minute then it's "Oh well, I've done my part, back to football."

I'm not a fan of any European club. But I'm a football fan and appreciate certain fundamental principles about the game - esp around success being about performance on the pitch.

I'm not naive enough to think the FAs, Uefa, politicians and clubs are not acting in self interest. But sometimes self interest coincides with the right thing.

Your argument against fans of big clubs doesn't hold water b/c even the fans of the clubs that would have benefited from the Super League were against it.

It is naive to expect racism, that affects a minority, to be treated with the same urgency as money that affects all. Whether you are black or white, you are interested in green.

[txj]

You are an Arsenal fan, as I am a Liverpool fan.

Both our clubs are operating on a sustainable football financing model, where the club pays for itself from its work on the field and outside of it.

But then they are both competing against City with a sovereign wealth fund and Chelsea with a Russian oligarch backed fund.

While you can sing kumbaya with Chelsea fans, the financial framework under which your team has to compete in the league, esp with FFP scrapped, is such that you are fundamentally at a disadvantage.

TXJ,
Who can argue with such a well thought out and lucid argument like this.

The EPL is not owned by the FA. So why would UEFA own the UCL and seek to own it exclusively?

These are the fundamental issues and they do not go away, unless Cefferin pays these teams a lot more money...

After making such a reasonable prior point you then proceed with the above which is a total Straw man argument and a head shaker and scratcher.
The analogy makes no sense to the actions taken by the 12.
The owner of the team you support has already said his action were ill thought out, just like his plans to furlough during the pandemic among other stupid actions, and yet you are still debating, what again??

Regardless of what their end goal was, their actions were ill conceived and the execution even worse.
Dunno if you are trying to be a contrarian or really believe in their actions.
They have failed, and failed so miserably and prolly killed any chance of engaging in this in the future.
They have also empowered the masses who will now be vigilant.
Talk about totally misreading the room.

This is exactly how revolutions are borne.
It’s usually from the over reach by those @ the top
that becomes the final straw.
This horribly conceived idea was so abhorrent that it
Hit right at the heart of European football and that why
there was such a untied and vociferous backlash.
If anyone can’t fail to grasp this then .....

I'm not sure you understand my point on the UEFA issue.

UEFA is a confederation of national FAs, like the English and German FAs.

The English FA does not own the EPL. The clubs created it.

Why would UEFA own the CL exclusively, when it already owns the Euros- the equivalent of the FA cup?

The fundamental inequity of that remains, irrespective of the outcome of the SL debacle.

[Mr. Piffington]

What these past 48 hours has taught me is that all this idealistic talk about the "right way", "greed", "for the fans" is just feel good talk. The reality is that everyone is fighting for their interests, from UEFA/FIFA to the FA to the big clubs to lower league clubs. UEFA doesn't want to lose the revenue these big clubs generate, the big clubs want more money, the fans of the big clubs want to maintain their dominance by using their financial advantage to beat up the smaller clubs, fans of the traditional clubs view new money clubs like Chelsea, PSG, and my very own City as a threat to their dominance so they don't want true parity, they want a return to the good old days. The canon fodder clubs don't want to lose significant income that will happen if the big clubs left or stop paying much attention to the league. The government is pandering to voters, the players and managers sat and watched which way the tide was going as they didn't want to be caught backing the wrong horse in case the super league thing grew legs.

Meanwhile real issues like racism doesn't get the same energy, you'll get symbolic gestures for a minute then it's "Oh well, I've done my part, back to football."

I'm not a fan of any European club. But I'm a football fan and appreciate certain fundamental principles about the game - esp around success being about performance on the pitch.

I'm not naive enough to think the FAs, Uefa, politicians and clubs are not acting in self interest. But sometimes self interest coincides with the right thing.

Your argument against fans of big clubs doesn't hold water b/c even the fans of the clubs that would have benefited from the Super League were against it.

It is naive to expect racism, that affects a minority, to be treated with the same urgency as money that affects all. Whether you are black or white, you are interested in green.

The fans of the big clubs would not have benefited from any super league. It’s the owners that would have benefited from it. The fans of big clubs want to dominate their leagues, where their clubs have the financial muscle to beat up canon fodder clubs, in a super league it won’t be the same.

[cic old boy]

I'm not sure you understand my point on the UEFA issue.

UEFA is a confederation of national FAs, like the English and German FAs.

The English FA does not own the EPL. The clubs created it.

Why would UEFA own the CL exclusively, when it already owns the Euros- the equivalent of the FA cup?

The fundamental inequity of that remains, irrespective of the outcome of the SL debacle.

Uefa owns the CL b/c they started it and organise it. Fifa owns the WC and the World Club Cup.

The FA not being involved in the EPL is a product of history. The FA started football in the country as an amateur endeavour. The Football League was created with the professionalisation of the game. The league grew separate from the FA, who retained the regulation of the amateur game. The EPL was about the 1st Div of the Football League taking themselves out of the league and strong links with the other 3 divs.

While that breakaway was controversial, it was done with the agreement of all the old 1st Div clubs. There was no attempt to make it a closed shop, promotion and relegation remained.

[cic old boy]

The fans of the big clubs would not have benefited from any super league. It’s the owners that would have benefited from it. The fans of big clubs want to dominate their leagues, where their clubs have the financial muscle to beat up canon fodder clubs, in a super league it won’t be the same.

Every fan wants their club to win all trophies. Financial muscle is a factor in winning. The Super League would have increased the financial muscle of the clubs invited. But their fans didn't want it.

[ohenhen1]

Most of the owners need to sell their stake in the club. Fans will never forgive them, reputation forever damaged. In fact the next time any Kroenke try to address the fans. Gooners must curse at him and boo them, don't allow them to talk. We have to demonstrate at every chance. Calling for the Kroenkes to sell and leave our club.

[Mr. Piffington]

The fans of the big clubs would not have benefited from any super league. It’s the owners that would have benefited from it. The fans of big clubs want to dominate their leagues, where their clubs have the financial muscle to beat up canon fodder clubs, in a super league it won’t be the same.

Every fan wants their club to win all trophies. Financial muscle is a factor in winning. The Super League would have increased the financial muscle of the clubs invited. But their fans didn't want it.

No. It would have just made them compete against clubs that are just as strong financially as they are thus reducing their chances of hogging trophies, that and the fear that the allure of playing the top clubs would go away because the increased frequency of games between them. I agree that there is some sentiment as to why they wouldn’t want a Super League but I don’t buy the reaction was completely altruistic. Either way, it means zilch to me, I’m not European and while I love the sport I don’t share their unique sentiments with these clubs.

[txj]

I'm not sure you understand my point on the UEFA issue.

UEFA is a confederation of national FAs, like the English and German FAs.

The English FA does not own the EPL. The clubs created it.

Why would UEFA own the CL exclusively, when it already owns the Euros- the equivalent of the FA cup?

The fundamental inequity of that remains, irrespective of the outcome of the SL debacle.

Uefa owns the CL b/c they started it and organise it. Fifa owns the WC and the World Club Cup.

The FA not being involved in the EPL is a product of history. The FA started football in the country as an amateur endeavour. The Football League was created with the professionalisation of the game. The league grew separate from the FA, who retained the regulation of the amateur game. The EPL was about the 1st Div of the Football League taking themselves out of the league and strong links with the other 3 divs.

While that breakaway was controversial, it was done with the agreement of all the old 1st Div clubs. There was no attempt to make it a closed shop, promotion and relegation remained.

The FA not being involved in the EPL is LARGELY a product of evolution and the clubs claiming ownership of the league that they are involved in.

UEFA owns the CL, but they don't own the clubs! They are simply middlemen, who are profiting off the back of the clubs.

Yes the implementation of the ESL was ham-handed, but the fundamental issue here has not gone away and will recur at some point...

[cic old boy]

The 72 hours of the European Super League: Timeline of a failed project
Recap of its rise and fall


The fall of the European Super League began shortly after it emerged and the domino effect will continue until the last piece collapses.

The project has dominated the football world this week and in the space of 72 hours has gone from threatening to radically change the game to almost completely disintegrating.

Here we recap the rapid rise and fall of this doomed breakaway project.

Florentino Perez's meetings
It's hard to pinpoint the origin of a plan that has been talked about in various quarters for many years, but we can trace this current episode back to a meeting held last week in a discrete Madrid location.

Real Madrid president Florentino Perez, the brains and face of the European Super League operation, met with Miguel Angel Gil, CEO of Atletico Madrid, a senior representative of Tottenham Hotspur and Anas Laghari, a partner in Key Capital, the investment fund behind the project.

Perez was determined to proceed no matter what and his desire is for the new Bernabeu stadium to host more than a couple of big European games per year.

He felt the announcement had to be made before UEFA confirmed their new Champions League format and he got Gil Martin on board by telling him it was either Atleti or Sevilla.

Laporta in Madrid
Barcelona president Joan Laporta also met with Perez late last week and, while wanting to run the issue by club members, he followed his predecessor Josep Maria Bartomeu by backing Perez's plans.

Along with the fear of missing out felt by many of the clubs involved, Laporta saw in the Super League a readymade solution to the Blaugrana's financial problems.

By Saturday the key documents were already being exchanged and the presidents of the 12 clubs held a video conference via Zoom.

UEFA got wind of the plot and Aleksander Ceferin called Juventus president Andrea Agnelli, who lied to him by playing the situation down as mere rumours.

The announcement
Sunday morning was the deadline set to hand in all the paperwork and all 12 clubs confirm their participation, although Manchester City had the most doubts.

The group had failed to convince either Bayern Munich or Paris Saint-Germain to get on board but are nonetheless determined to proceed.

Their objective was to make the announcement and first, then secure public support and finally win the inevitable legal battles.

By early afternoon the news had leaked, with The Times and MARCA revealing the impending announcement, and governing bodies such as UEFA and national federations respond pre-emptively.

There were some nerves by this point amongst the Super League 12, with the English clubs anxious to go public before Monday, and the official announcement finally game at 00:20 (CET) after the release had been redrafted 26 times.

Statements began appearing on each club's website, just half a day before UEFA were due to publish their Champions League reforms.

The earthquake begins
Ten minutes before going public, the newly-created legal entity contacted the courts in Madrid with the aim of blocking potential sanctions and ensuring that any disputes would be resolved in Spain, not Switzerland.

By Monday morning every corner of football world had been shook and threats came from UEFA and even politicians.

Unstoppable rejection
LaLiga Santander clubs wasted no time in releasing their own statements, robustly critcising the plans and they are joined by clubs elsewhere, such as Leeds, and some players, including Ander Herrera and James Milner.

On Monday night Florentino Perez appeared on El Chiringuito as the first Super League representative to make a public appearance, but his message about saving football and needing money only fuelled the flames of rejection amongst its opponents.

The image of Chelsea fans protesting before their team's game against Brighton on Tuesday was an iconic moment in the Super League's downfall and highlighted that, at least in England, there was no appetite for the new competition.

Players from clubs involved were largely silent, but some liked criticism of the plans on social media.

Perez's last appearance
On Tuesday Perez still maintained that no one would abandon the European Super League, but hours later clubs were backtracking, first of all Manchester City and before the day was out all six English clubs had pulled out.

By Wednesday afternoon Inter and Atletico Madrid had followed suit and AC Milan did likewise at around 13:30 (CET).

Juventus later admitted defeat, while still backing the idea, as only they, Real Madrid and Barcelona were left standing.

In just 72 hours the epic project had been sunk.
https://www.marca.com/en/football/inter ... b45b1.html

[cic old boy]

No. It would have just made them compete against clubs that are just as strong financially as they are thus reducing their chances of hogging trophies, that and the fear that the allure of playing the top clubs would go away because the increased frequency of games between them. I agree that there is some sentiment as to why they wouldn’t want a Super League but I don’t buy the reaction was completely altruistic. Either way, it means zilch to me, I’m not European and while I love the sport I don’t share their unique sentiments with these clubs.

In the CL the clubs compete against other clubs that are strong financially. Very few clubs hog the CL. Arsenal's financial strength has not allowed them a guaranteed top 4 in the EPL.

Fact is that there is near unanimous disapproval of the Super League from fans of the clubs admitted. So the argument the fans were acting in self interest is weak.