How come Croatia with a tiny population

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Lolly
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Lolly »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:06 pm
Tobi17 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:36 am Are achieving such unimaginably impressive feats in football? these is a country of only 4 million people (not even up to the population of the smallest state in the South East of Nigeria) talk-less of Nigeria, yet they are getting to the finals of major tournaments, I don't even think their local football league is better than the best football league here in Africa...so how are they churning out all these world class players? The thing really amazes me honestly.
If Anambra and Imo were countries, they would probably have won the World Cup by now. No quota systems to contend with❗️


Cheers.
Results of the last National Sports Festival with no quota systems to contend with.

Gold Silver Bronze

Delta 158 116 110
Edo 129 104 108
Bayelsa 56 55 58
Rivers 33 34 61
Lagos 32 40 54
Oyo 31 30 42
Akwa Ibom 20 24 44
Ogun 16 23 39
Kano 11 22 33
Imo 10 13 26
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by TonyTheTigerKiller »

Lolly wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:07 pm
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:06 pm
Tobi17 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:36 am Are achieving such unimaginably impressive feats in football? these is a country of only 4 million people (not even up to the population of the smallest state in the South East of Nigeria) talk-less of Nigeria, yet they are getting to the finals of major tournaments, I don't even think their local football league is better than the best football league here in Africa...so how are they churning out all these world class players? The thing really amazes me honestly.
If Anambra and Imo were countries, they would probably have won the World Cup by now. No quota systems to contend with❗️


Cheers.
Results of the last National Sports Festival with no quota systems to contend with.

Gold Silver Bronze

Delta 158 116 110
Edo 129 104 108
Bayelsa 56 55 58
Rivers 33 34 61
Lagos 32 40 54
Oyo 31 30 42
Akwa Ibom 20 24 44
Ogun 16 23 39
Kano 11 22 33
Imo 10 13 26
You are quick to publish state results. Why don’t you publish the names of the particular athletes who won the medals? Anambra and Imo athletes who live in Lagos, for example, don’t go back to compete for their state of origin but should there be an Anambra national team, who do you think they’ll be competing for❓❗️


Cheers.
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bret- hart
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by bret- hart »

Lolly wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:07 pm
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:06 pm
Tobi17 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:36 am Are achieving such unimaginably impressive feats in football? these is a country of only 4 million people (not even up to the population of the smallest state in the South East of Nigeria) talk-less of Nigeria, yet they are getting to the finals of major tournaments, I don't even think their local football league is better than the best football league here in Africa...so how are they churning out all these world class players? The thing really amazes me honestly.
If Anambra and Imo were countries, they would probably have won the World Cup by now. No quota systems to contend with❗️


Cheers.
Results of the last National Sports Festival with no quota systems to contend with.

Gold Silver Bronze

Delta 158 116 110
Edo 129 104 108
Bayelsa 56 55 58
Rivers 33 34 61
Lagos 32 40 54
Oyo 31 30 42
Akwa Ibom 20 24 44
Ogun 16 23 39
Kano 11 22 33
Imo 10 13 26
Oh please. Most of the athletes repping those states are from the eastern part of Nigeria. If Biafra were to become its own country Africa will hear serious wein. It's quota system that is holding Nigeria back.
I AM THE EXCELLENCE OF EXECUTION- BRET THE "HITMAN" HART.

The Neo Nueves Hart foundation: R.Onyedika, M.Usor, Y.Sor, A.Adeleye, A.Okonkwo, N.Tella, A.Yusuf, E.Onyenezide, V.Lopez, O.Olusegun.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by bret- hart »

TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:42 pm
Lolly wrote: Tue Nov 29, 2022 2:07 pm
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 4:06 pm
Tobi17 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:36 am Are achieving such unimaginably impressive feats in football? these is a country of only 4 million people (not even up to the population of the smallest state in the South East of Nigeria) talk-less of Nigeria, yet they are getting to the finals of major tournaments, I don't even think their local football league is better than the best football league here in Africa...so how are they churning out all these world class players? The thing really amazes me honestly.
If Anambra and Imo were countries, they would probably have won the World Cup by now. No quota systems to contend with❗️


Cheers.
Results of the last National Sports Festival with no quota systems to contend with.

Gold Silver Bronze

Delta 158 116 110
Edo 129 104 108
Bayelsa 56 55 58
Rivers 33 34 61
Lagos 32 40 54
Oyo 31 30 42
Akwa Ibom 20 24 44
Ogun 16 23 39
Kano 11 22 33
Imo 10 13 26
You are quick to publish state results. Why don’t you publish the names of the particular athletes who won the medals? Anambra and Imo athletes who live in Lagos, for example, don’t go back to compete for their state of origin but should there be an Anambra national team, who do you think they’ll be competing for❓❗️


Cheers.
Leave them. They are in denial.
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The Neo Nueves Hart foundation: R.Onyedika, M.Usor, Y.Sor, A.Adeleye, A.Okonkwo, N.Tella, A.Yusuf, E.Onyenezide, V.Lopez, O.Olusegun.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by mate »

I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Tobi17 »

mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Take a bow mate,

Thanks for this beautifully written and insightful piece!!! maybe Nigeria can actually learn A LOT from this, a country that actually knows how to get it done! unfortunately the Nigerian conundrum (unlike in Croatia) is that tribalism, corruption and nepotism is the order of the day...for example I'm Igbo by tribe, and I far less patriotism to Nigeria as a country compared to my own ethnic group, and this is the same for all the tribes in Nigeria- tribalism and ethnoreligious sentiments over national pride, a conundrum that has permeated into every fabric of our society including football...many of us from a certain section of the Nigeria actually want out as we feel Nigeria is holding back alot of our potentials as a people ( note that the population of my ethnic group alone is well over 40 million people, the size of some European countries put together), yet we aren't even scratching the surface of our potentials. Hopefully Nigeria gets it right soon, maybe not in my generation but the next, because ours is truly a complex one.

God bless the beautiful people of Croatia, definitely one of countries I've come to have immense love and respect for
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by mate »

Tobi17 wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 7:56 pm
mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Take a bow mate,

Thanks for this beautifully written and insightful piece!!! maybe Nigeria can actually learn A LOT from this, a country that actually knows how to get it done! unfortunately the Nigerian conundrum (unlike in Croatia) is that tribalism, corruption and nepotism is the order of the day...for example I'm Igbo by tribe, and I far less patriotism to Nigeria as a country compared to my own ethnic group, and this is the same for all the tribes in Nigeria- tribalism and ethnoreligious sentiments over national pride, a conundrum that has permeated into every fabric of our society including football...many of us from a certain section of the Nigeria actually want out as we feel Nigeria is holding back alot of our potentials as a people ( note that the population of my ethnic group alone is well over 40 million people, the size of some European countries put together), yet we aren't even scratching the surface of our potentials. Hopefully Nigeria gets it right soon, maybe not in my generation but the next, because ours is truly a complex one.

God bless the beautiful people of Croatia, definitely one of countries I've come to have immense love and respect for


I'll be blunt: no doubt Croatia is doing much better than Yugoslavia did because of Yugoslavia never solved ethnic tensions, but actually stoked them. Until ironically the very end, Serbians never allowed more Croatians than Serbians to comprise the NT.

Of course you know we killed each other in war in the early 90s. I've always been careful discussing this on CE, because Nigeria has more people...and war is not the way. I don't have good answers in this dimension, other than saying, please don't go to war. I will say that Czechoslovakia separated in a so called velvet revolution, no war, peacefully parted.

Yet other modern societies show diversity can work in a single nation: USA, France, the British countries. India. I'm not making a suggestion, because every country has a different context. Stay together or velvet revolution?

But please don't go to war.

Otherwise, I think the lessons of Croatian football can be applied in any context. Just select the best players with the right kind of support. I wish the best for Nigeria in all things: life, prosperity, football.

Forgive me if I said anything offensive, because I don't mean to. Any mistake is my ignorance.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by bret- hart »

mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
This is the mate I like. The Croatian Mate not the crazy CIA agent Mate that thinks USA will win a world cup. I wish Nigeria would look at Croatia as a model. You guys are good at pretty much every team sport there is.
I AM THE EXCELLENCE OF EXECUTION- BRET THE "HITMAN" HART.

The Neo Nueves Hart foundation: R.Onyedika, M.Usor, Y.Sor, A.Adeleye, A.Okonkwo, N.Tella, A.Yusuf, E.Onyenezide, V.Lopez, O.Olusegun.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by mate »

bret- hart wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:37 pm
mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
This is the mate I like. The Croatian Mate not the crazy CIA agent Mate that thinks USA will win a world cup. I wish Nigeria would look at Croatia as a model. You guys are good at pretty much every team sport there is.


The interesting thing is, for as loaded a team as we have...and I think we are...we still have not qualified 2nd round and won't if we lose to Belgium.

Football is a total sport of the finest margins. Even when you things right, it's not easy. But I always say, give yourself the best chance to let talent and the luck of God make things go right.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Aswani »

mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Thanks for this mate, absolutely fascinating despite being a long read

I knew Croatia seriously taps into diaspora for its football team but all the other stuff was new to me.

The allegiance to fatherland is something we will never get in Nigeria, at least not now, with 4 yearly elections and the tribal undertones.

I was watching Canada vs Croatia the other day and despite the Canadians seemingly running you ragged early on, as did England in the first half last world cup, you just knew Croatia will come back somehow if Canda didn't score 5. Incredible for a small nation.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by mate »

Aswani wrote: Thu Dec 01, 2022 2:31 pm
mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Thanks for this mate, absolutely fascinating despite being a long read

I knew Croatia seriously taps into diaspora for its football team but all the other stuff was new to me.

The allegiance to fatherland is something we will never get in Nigeria, at least not now, with 4 yearly elections and the tribal undertones.

I was watching Canada vs Croatia the other day and despite the Canadians seemingly running you ragged early on, as did England in the first half last world cup, you just knew Croatia will come back somehow if Canda didn't score 5. Incredible for a small nation.


Thanks man. Sorry for the long read. I tried to make it as concise as possible, but also complete.

This has worked for Croatia.

Like I said in another post, we could have been out today...but we eked it out to the 2nd round.

All on the foundations laid out in the things I noted.

But to your point, tying Belgium today, who finally came to play, ultimately came from good enough players digging deep for love of Croatia.

Some CEs are my Facebook friends. I was at WC 2018 in Russia. The Croatian team let me and my 2 American friends hang out with them for a while. Gave me 2 tickets and all of us kit. Yujam can see my pictures of this on Facebook.

Do you know Davor Suker asked me where my where my parents are from? What region and village? Same with some players.

I love having that. It is my tribe and heritage. But, don't get me wrong, I'm also part of a greater human tribe, as identity is enveloping as well as stratified. I love all the diversity here, especially in football.

Just laying it all out.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by goke313 »

Damunk wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:11 am
Tobi17 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 6:35 am
Sunset wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:48 am
Tobi17 wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 12:36 am Are achieving such unimaginably impressive feats in football? these is a country of only 4 million people (not even up to the population of the smallest state in the South East of Nigeria) talk-less of Nigeria, yet they are getting to the finals of major tournaments, I don't even think their local football league is better than the best football league here in Africa...so how are they churning out all these world class players? The thing really amazes me honestly.
Its called culture! Something money or a large population can't buy and you must be mistaken if you think the best african leagues are better than the Croatian league. They might be more lucrative but aren't as good if we're talking about the actual level of football being played and that reflects on the national team.
Interesting take, I would have thought that with a massive population, it wouldn't be hard to always find and select a team of 11 talented players who can play well under a good coach, we were always made to believe that all the good players in Nigeria can be found on the streets and not in some fancy club or academy.
With no structure everything relies on chance findings.
All the Nigerian sporting superstars have just been lucky to have been spotted and groomed with other factors falling in their favor. Our top athletes have almost exclusively moved out to the US and peaked from there, unlike the Jamaicans.

As for footballers, you only need to read the stories of Ighalo, Osimhen, Awoniyi, Nacho, Nwakali to see how simply fortunate they were to get spotted in the first place.
Both Nwakali and Awoniyi have been humble enough to say there were players much better than them that weren’t so fortunate.
Don’t get me wrong, they worked really hard, but in a country of 200m, we are really playing a game of chance.

Sure, we will always find talent, but not optimally. Too much waste.


:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Cellular »

mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Nice one, Mate.

In Naijaria, the old Bendel State is our own version of Croatia.

They used to dominate the soccer scenes and athletes in general.

But Naijaria has a problem and it is not the lack of talent or even money...

There was a man in the old Midwest aka Bendel that had a vision about athletes and sports in general... it is still his template and vision that has led them to dominate.

Truth be told, if they were a country they will win the AFCON and possibly do as well as Croatia at the World Cup.
THERE WAS A COUNTRY...

...can't cry more than the bereaved!

Well done is better than well said!!!
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by oscar52 »

bret- hart wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 10:37 pm
mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
This is the mate I like. The Croatian Mate not the crazy CIA agent Mate that thinks USA will win a world cup. I wish Nigeria would look at Croatia as a model. You guys are good at pretty much every team sport there is.
How many top sprinters repping Nigeria right now is from Imo or Anambra? Delta and Edo have mostly produced the bulk of Nigeria's athletes and that even is most likely due to their embrace of sports. Jamaica, a nation of about 2m is producing athletes left and right. Small Ghana, Namibia, and Kenya are producing African record holders in athletics. Dont make the mistake of using the sample of soccer and extrapolate it to other sports. SE Nigeria and to some extend SS play more soccer at higher level than other regions from my own experience and thus produce more players. But it doesnt necessarily mean the genes are better suited to sports. Nigeria affects all Nigerians of all regions. That a nation of 200m+ black people does not have athlete in the olympics 100m men or women finals is an anomaly that points to serious underdevelopment in sports. A country of 200m Hausas alone (yes they are black) should have a representative in the sprint finals.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Kneedeep »

mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
:clap: Well thought out and delivered post. I forgive you in advance for any opaks you may write till 2024.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by mate »

Cellular wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:53 pm
mate wrote: Wed Nov 30, 2022 5:27 pm I am Croatian and can tell you what makes Croatian players so good. It is indeed a combination of nature and nurture.

NURTURE
* Croatia is a 1st world country in quality of life. No real poverty. A lot of corruption limits upside, which is why young people leave a lot, but still a good living comparably to other societies.

* Football is funded. Great academies, especially Dinamo and Hajduk. Every kid will get assistance 1 way or the other.

* Sports science, training, nutrition, exposure to ALL competition, including pros, across age ranges is facilitated. Solid, but not luxurious. Families still contribute a lot of time and some money...but also develops a sense of toughness, sacrifice, and commitment.

* Special academic accommodation through high school...as identified talent plays football all day. No college path.

* Because of academic sacrifice, guarantee of vocational training and jobs if pursuit of football is a bust.

* No age or competition based elimination. If a young, skinny but talented guy is overrun by the big guy, he gets time to physically mature. If too many talented guys one team crowd each other out, they are distributed to other teams to even out development...DEVELOPMENT not the SCOREBOARD is what is measured.

* a strong league = DECISIVE. Croatians get playing time, exposed to the CL and Europa League in club competition. Croatians believe you peak at age 24, especially Croatians on physiology, right or wrong on this.

* the league fosters a common playing style and familiarity. Croatian players get to know each other. They are famous for pulling one another into big European clubs...even players of Croatian heritage, as Croatia gave Christian Pulisic a passport so he could play in Germany at age 16.

* there is a Croatian program to identify and assist players of Croatian heritage abroad. Here is a list of current NT players from abroad: Josip Sutalo: Bosnia, Dejan Lovren: Bosnia, Mateo Kovacic: Austria, Josip Stanisic: Germany, Mario Pasalic: Germany, Luka Sucic: Germany, Ante Budimir: Germany.

* Culture: Croatians love football and the egos. Promote individual creativity, opinions, even to the point of friction. If you've been around Croatians, you will know what I mean. We believe we can tolerate being a jerk if a player can become great and ultimately reigned in...for the love of Croatia. There is a commitment to winning at the club and NT level...with a measured and contextual approach about balancing results vs what can be tweaked before firing coaches and players.

A Scottish person asked why Croatia? Why not Scotland, Ireland, or Wales? He wrote a great blog here: https://www.followfollow.com/forum/thre ... st-9114284

Read it if you have time. It hits the nail on the head.

NATURE
Ok, this is where it gets controversial. Right or wrong, Croatians believe we have a bit more talent and physical ability than other Europeans. We're tall, strong, and do well in many sports. We have great coaches too.

Note Croatian-American NFL and college football coaches. Bill Belichick is wearing a Croatian flag as he coaches the New England Patriots. He loves Croatia too. Nick Saban is Croatian and gave an interview with Saban on their Croatian heritage. Pete Carroll is Croatian on his mother's side.

I grew up in NYC playing football in ethnic youth leagues. Every group had its teams. Small a community as we were, Croatian-Americans disproportionately beat the Italian, Greek, Jamaican, various Latino, and British based teams. When Croatia became free, Dinamo came and played against our semi-pro NY Croatia club.

Stipe Miocic, the winningest MMA heavyweight titles every, is Croatian-American. Remember Cro-Cop, he was also pretty good? We have many fighters. They all promote Croatia.

Again, don't get me wrong, as this could be right or wrong about natural talent. But Croatians by and large believe it. Maybe it contributes to a psychological edge, complementing the NURTURE.

I think Croatia has it right. I was there in September and last year. Football is in full bloom. You should see the pipeline. I'm very confident in the newest players: Gvardiol, Sosa, Sucic, and Majer...will take over from Modric, Lovren, and Perisic.

Bottom line if I can reduce it down to a core factor: a strong league at all levels covering all ages, possible because the greater society can make this happen.

Just saying guys. It's all my observation and opinions. Hope there is something of value here...but I will be blunt about one thing.

African nations can light up the football world if they developed their leagues. But you all already know this and what it takes.

I'm just offering my 2 cents regarding Croatia. All the best my friends...and I root for the Super Eagles to be that African team...b because I love great football.

And thanks for the football fellowship. I've been a CE for decades now!

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:
Nice one, Mate.

In Naijaria, the old Bendel State is our own version of Croatia.

They used to dominate the soccer scenes and athletes in general.

But Naijaria has a problem and it is not the lack of talent or even money...

There was a man in the old Midwest aka Bendel that had a vision about athletes and sports in general... it is still his template and vision that has led them to dominate.

Truth be told, if they were a country they will win the AFCON and possibly do as well as Croatia at the World Cup.

As I discussed earlier, this is a tough discussion. I don't have good answers when it comes to such explosive issues. I believe the potential you discuss, but obviously the path to that is controversial to say the last.

Whatever happens, I always advocate a peaceful way to approach this.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by mate »

Guys, another thing is the many key Croatians are pretty well connected in football circles. That helps too. This article is in Croatian, but it speaks to coach Dalic calling and offering sympathy to Martinez after he quit Belgium.

They are friends. Dalic said of Martinez: Čuo sam se s Martinezom usred noći, žao mi je što je otišao. Puno mi je pomogao.

This means: I spoke to Martinez in the middle of the night and am sorry he is left. He helped me a lot (meaning in his career). A lot of Croatians make sure to learn from the best players and coaches they interact with. Modric speaks glowing of what Zidane taught him.

If you look at the Croatian bench during games, you will see lots of our former players: Corluka, Mandzukic, and Olic. Suker was the former FA president. They give back for sure. There is a culture of doing such things...withstanding a lot of BS in Croatian football.

A portion of the money seems to get stolen misappropriated. But, the consensus is that development and achievement come 1st, then divide the spoils. But this is getting better, it just takes time.

https://www.24sata.hr/sport/dalic-cuo-s ... HnbrkJDBys

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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Damunk »

Cellular wrote: Sat Dec 03, 2022 11:53 pm Nice one, Mate.

In Naijaria, the old Bendel State is our own version of Croatia.

They used to dominate the soccer scenes and athletes in general.

But Naijaria has a problem and it is not the lack of talent or even money...

There was a man in the old Midwest aka Bendel that had a vision about athletes and sports in general... it is still his template and vision that has led them to dominate.

Truth be told, if they were a country they will win the AFCON and possibly do as well as Croatia at the World Cup.
:thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

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Damunk wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:14 am :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Bendelism. Nigerian Sports’ Way Forward?
Egbon, Bendelism worked well with public Primary and Secondary schools. These new Private Primary and Secondary schools are more interested in Dubai trips, colourful school uniform, expensive school fees etc.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

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fabio wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:47 am
Damunk wrote: Sun Dec 04, 2022 11:14 am :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Bendelism. Nigerian Sports’ Way Forward?
Egbon, Bendelism worked well with public Primary and Secondary schools. These new Private Primary and Secondary schools are more interested in Dubai trips, colourful school uniform, expensive school fees etc.
Those ajebotas could hardly compete in those days anyway.
It’s probably even worse today with their PlayStations, TikTok, Snapchat and McDonalds.
It shouldn’t affect much.
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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

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I think this is worth a viewing if you have time.

Dani Olmo of the Spanish NT left Barcelona at 16 to going the Dinamo Zagreb youth academy. Why? They said he'd start 17 rather than getting a shot at Barcelona at age 21.

This SPANIARD chose Croatia. We developed him into the fine player he is today for the Spain NT. He and rising Croatian star Gvardiol were teammates there and now are together at Leipzig. Gvardiol gets to know his future opposition, as well as just making friendships.

Think about what this does for Croatian development. A top academy. Now attracting foreigners.

It all works to produce a pipeline of Croatian talent. Final point: this is the minimum we must do to simply stay competitive. I don't know that Croatia, for all this, is good enough to beat Japan in our 2nd round game...never mind most likely meeting Brazil if we do in the quarters.

It's food for thought for Nigeria if you are interested. This is the minimal to be reasonably competitive, looking for a 2nd round or quarter. Any nation needs a stable society, academies, good league, and exposure to produce talented players that make coaching, tactics, and wins possible at the NT level.

Again, you all know this. I'm just giving a perspective.

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Re: How come Croatia with a tiny population

Post by Donzman »

YUJAM wrote: Mon Nov 28, 2022 3:02 am Uruguay has a population of under 4 million. Costa Rica has a population of less than 4 million

I think it comes down to the level or organization at the grassroots level
That is all.

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