African, Arab or Amazigh? Morocco's identity crisis

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African, Arab or Amazigh? Morocco's identity crisis

Post by jette1 »

It is fair to say that the World Cup in Qatar this year has been defined by controversy like no other tournament before.

From the controversial decision to grant Qatar the privilege of hosting the event despite its poor human rights record to the very last moment when the Emir of Qatar put an Arab cloak on the shoulders of the Argentinian football legend, Lionel Messi, as he was about to lift the trophy on Sunday.

But there is one controversy that attracted little or no attention outside North Africa. It started with the simple question: how do you describe the Moroccan team, the Atlas Lions, which stunned the whole world by its sterling performance - defying the odds to beat heavyweights such as Spain and Portugal? The "first Arab" or "African" team to reach the semi-final?

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-64022940
make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by Kabalega »

Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by jette1 »

Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... 1670976705
It took 13.8 billion years of cosmic history for the first human beings to arrive, and we did so relatively recently: just 300,000 years ago. 99.998% of the time that passed since the Big Bang had no human beings at all; our entire species has only existed for the most recent 0.002% of the Universe. Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence. Fortunately, the story won’t end with us, as it’s still being written.
Last edited by jette1 on Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by Kabalega »

jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis of who are we ? Primates
Take the time to think and reflect on what you posted because it’s illogical.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by jette1 »

Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:57 pm
jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis of who are we ? Primates
Take the time to think and reflect on what you posted because it’s illogical.
disregard typo Fact remains
It took 13.8 billion years of cosmic history for the first human beings to arrive, and we did so relatively recently: just 300,000 years ago. 99.998% of the time that passed since the Big Bang had no human beings at all; our entire species has only existed for the most recent 0.002% of the Universe. Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence. Fortunately, the story won’t end with us, as it’s still being written.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... 1670976705
make peaceful change impossible make violent change inevitable.

"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is. If the--if he--if 'is' means is and never has been, that is not--that is one thing. If it means there is none, that was a completely true statement....Now, if someone had asked me on that day, are you having any kind of sexual relations with Ms. Lewinsky, that is, asked me a question in the present tense, I would have said no. And it would have been completely true."
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African, Arab or Amazigh? Morocco's identity crisis

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https://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-64022940
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It is fair to say that the World Cup in Qatar this year has been defined by controversy like no other tournament before.

From the controversial decision to grant Qatar the privilege of hosting the event despite its poor human rights record to the very last moment when the Emir of Qatar put an Arab cloak on the shoulders of the Argentinian football legend, Lionel Messi, as he was about to lift the trophy on Sunday.

But there is one controversy that attracted little or no attention outside North Africa. It started with the simple question: how do you describe the Moroccan team, the Atlas Lions, which stunned the whole world by its sterling performance - defying the odds to beat heavyweights such as Spain and Portugal? The "first Arab" or "African" team to reach the semi-final?


Culturally many Moroccans see themselves more as Arabs than Africans - and some sub-Saharan Africans in Morocco complain that racist attitudes are never far from the surface.

But comments by Moroccan winger Sofiane Boufal after their World Cup victory over Spain brought the debate about the country's continental identity to the fore. He thanked "all Moroccans all over the world for their support, to all Arab people, and to all Muslim people. This win belongs to you."

After a social media backlash, he took to Instagram to apologise for not mentioning the African continent's backing of the team - expressed at one stage by Nigeria's President Muhammadu Buhari when he said Morocco had "made the entire continent proud with their grit and dexterity".

Senegalese watch a live broadcast of the Qatar 2022 World Cup Football semi-final match between Morocco and France at Parcelles Assainie in Dakar on 14 December 2022
IMAGE SOURCE,AFP
Image caption,
Morocco garnered support from the rest of Africa - including from this crowd in Senegal - as they took on France
Chastened, Boufal posted: "I also dedicate the victory to you of course. We are proud to represent all our brothers on the continent. TOGETHER."

The furore reflects recent efforts by the monarch to encourage closer ties with the rest of the African continent. "Africa is my home, and I am coming back home," King Mohammed VI said in 2017 as Morocco was re-admitted to the Africa Union after a 30-year absence in a row over the disputed territory of Western Sahara. This rapprochement has allowed business links to flourish, especially with West Africa.

But Morocco is also a member of the Arab League - so officially belongs to both cultural spheres.

While the adjective "African" to describe Morocco is a geographical fact, the use of "Arab" has also alienated many Moroccans who do not identify as such.

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Morocco has a substantial population of Berbers, or Amazigh as they prefer to be called - some estimates put it at nearly 40% of the country's population of more than 34 million. One major Amazigh language - Tamazight - is now recognised as an official language alongside Arabic.

But this was a controversy long time in the making. Immediately after Qatar was awarded the right to host the 2022 World Cup, its media framed the event as a "Victory for Islam and pan-Arabism", as a headline put it back in 2010.

As the tournament got under way, the vocabulary of pan-Arabism and Islamism crept back to the front. In the conflict over the ban on alcohol or the use of the OneLove armband of the LGBTQ, advocates of Islamism and pan-Arabism came to the defence of Qatar, Islam and traditional values against "the imperialist West".

Amazighs, in traditional clothes, gather to celebrate the year 2972 to their calendar, Rabat, Morocco - 13 January 2022
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
The Amazigh are the indigenous people of North Africa
But the initial framing of the event by the Qatari media as an "Islamic or Arab Conquest", which had gone largely unnoticed, provoked an angry reaction when it became part of the language of running commentary on the games.

So, when the Atlas Lions made history by becoming the first men's team from Africa and the Middle East to qualify for the World Cup semi-final, it was hailed as a victory for the Muslim and Arab nations.

After other teams from the region - Tunisia, Saudi Arabia and Qatar - were disqualified early in the race, it was only natural that football lovers in neighbouring countries would rally behind Morocco.

But some vocal groups sought to portray the Moroccan success as something much larger, more ideological and political. Consequently, the Moroccan team was assigned the role of the standard-bearer of Islam and pan-Arabism.

This argument was strengthened when some of the Moroccan team's players celebrated their successes by unfurling a Palestinian flag on the pitch.

This kind of rhetoric outraged many in North Africa, but particularly among Moroccans who do not subscribe to these ideologies and their worldviews.

'Culture war'
In an hour-long tirade, one dissident Moroccan YouTuber blasted those who sought to politicise the game and turn it into a global culture war.

Brother Rachid also reminded his 385,000 subscribers that half of the Moroccan team, including their coach, were in fact born and bred in Europe, the children of Moroccan migrants who learned the game and became professional footballers in Europe.

"If you were to do a DNA analysis of the Moroccan team, you would find that most of them are Amazigh. Most of them don't speak Arabic. And if they did it will be 'broken Arabic' because they grew up in the West," he said.

The role of Islam and freedom of speech are sensitive in Morocco, where the royal dynasty regards itself as the Prophet Muhammad's descendants, and the king retains the title of The Commander of the Faithful - an historic term for early Muslim rulers. Yet the YouTuber was not afraid to tackle thorny issues:

"Morocco is different from the Middle East, because it is fundamentally a Berber society, the Arabs came as outsiders in the 7th Century. Today in Morocco there are Arabs, Berbers, Muslims, Jews, atheists, non-religionists and Baha'is, there are Shias and Sunnis."

Considering this Moroccan success "a victory for Arabism and Islam is an attack on the various components of the Moroccan society", he went on to say.

In response to the pan-Arabists or Islamists seeking to hijack the Moroccan triumph for their own use, posts on social media proliferated to claim back the team as Morocco's. Some posted pictures of the team emblazoned with Amazigh symbols.

A Moroccan football fan draped in a Amazigh flag in Spain - 6 December 2022
IMAGE SOURCE,GETTY IMAGES
Image caption,
Some Moroccan fans draped themselves in the Amazigh flag
Other critics highlighted the absurdity of turning a game of football into a religious or ethnic war, arguing that it is inconceivable that a win by France, Brazil or Argentina could be considered a triumph of Christianity.

They pointed out that would be impossible, given the ethnic and religious mix of some of the national football teams in Europe for example.

The controversy over the true identity of the Moroccan team is the latest manifestation of a "culture war" that has raged for decades across North Africa and the Middle East.

National identity has been central to the two ideologies - Islamism and pan-Arabism - that shaped political discourse in the region for decades.

While they made sense during the struggle for national liberation, prioritizing social cohesion over individual freedom, they seem to have outlived their usefulness and become irrelevant in an increasingly globalized world - as the row over a football match clearly demonstrates.
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by akamoke »

Why create controversy for the sake of it on whether Morooco is the first Arabic or African nation to reach semi finals...Can't it be both

In fact Arabic may not be the first langauage but about 1m Arabs live in Turkey and hence Turkey can arguably claim to be the first Arabic country to reach semi finals

In the case of Morocco, I don't see any identity crisis just as I don't see an identity crisis for Trevor Noah who is both Swiss and South African, incidentally so is Roger Federer

In the end , you claim what makes sense to you, not to others
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Re: African, Arab or Amazigh? Morocco's identity crisis

Post by Scipio Africanus »

It's the losers who are always talking about "identity". Don't dump your "identity" issues on other people. Abeg comot for road.


376 heavily armed and trained cops in body armor, with APCs, are scared to death of ONE 18-year old with an AR-15

But the general public, with none of those advantages, should not be concerned that 18-year olds can buy AR-15s

- This piece of genius level logic brought to you by American conservatives and the Republican party
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Re: African, Arab or Amazigh? Morocco's identity crisis

Post by Mr. Piffington »

Not this crap again.
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by Kabalega »

jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:03 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:57 pm
jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis of who are we ? Primates
Take the time to think and reflect on what you posted because it’s illogical.
disregard typo Fact remains
It took 13.8 billion years of cosmic history for the first human beings to arrive, and we did so relatively recently: just 300,000 years ago. 99.998% of the time that passed since the Big Bang had no human beings at all; our entire species has only existed for the most recent 0.002% of the Universe. Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence. Fortunately, the story won’t end with us, as it’s still being written.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... 1670976705
You post about the Big Bang with the authority of those who once believed the earth was flat. Then you follow it up with “ Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence.”

Really? Are you sure you’ve figured it out? :lol: :lol:
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by cchinukw »

jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... 1670976705
It took 13.8 billion years of cosmic history for the first human beings to arrive, and we did so relatively recently: just 300,000 years ago. 99.998% of the time that passed since the Big Bang had no human beings at all; our entire species has only existed for the most recent 0.002% of the Universe. Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence. Fortunately, the story won’t end with us, as it’s still being written.
Absolute bunkum.

Which is it? - Big bang or star dust?
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by maceo4 »

Kabalega wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:19 am
jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:03 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:57 pm
jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis of who are we ? Primates
Take the time to think and reflect on what you posted because it’s illogical.
disregard typo Fact remains
It took 13.8 billion years of cosmic history for the first human beings to arrive, and we did so relatively recently: just 300,000 years ago. 99.998% of the time that passed since the Big Bang had no human beings at all; our entire species has only existed for the most recent 0.002% of the Universe. Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence. Fortunately, the story won’t end with us, as it’s still being written.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... 1670976705
You post about the Big Bang with the authority of those who once believed the earth was flat. Then you follow it up with “ Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence.”

Really? Are you sure you’ve figured it out? :lol: :lol:
Of course but we should instead believe a fairy tale imaginary creator concocted around the time that folks believed the earth was flat…I mean come on, u have no leg to stand on.
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Re: MOROCCO IDENTITY CRISIS

Post by Kabalega »

maceo4 wrote: Fri Dec 30, 2022 5:38 pm
Kabalega wrote: Thu Dec 22, 2022 4:19 am
jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 6:03 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:57 pm
jette1 wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:33 pm
Kabalega wrote: Wed Dec 21, 2022 5:25 pm Identity issues are at the core of all major conflict. That is why I SMH when the likes of ohsee lean on it so often.
The time will soon come when most will wake to our real ID as children of the creator.
You just convoluted the whole issue you thought you were solving ? because evolution is debunks creationism hence you took us back to the identity crisis of who are we ? Primates
Take the time to think and reflect on what you posted because it’s illogical.
disregard typo Fact remains
It took 13.8 billion years of cosmic history for the first human beings to arrive, and we did so relatively recently: just 300,000 years ago. 99.998% of the time that passed since the Big Bang had no human beings at all; our entire species has only existed for the most recent 0.002% of the Universe. Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence. Fortunately, the story won’t end with us, as it’s still being written.
https://bigthink.com/starts-with-a-bang ... 1670976705
You post about the Big Bang with the authority of those who once believed the earth was flat. Then you follow it up with “ Yet, in that short time, we’ve managed to figure out the entire cosmic story that led to our existence.”

Really? Are you sure you’ve figured it out? :lol: :lol:
Of course but we should instead believe a fairy tale imaginary creator concocted around the time that folks believed the earth was flat…I mean come on, u have no leg to stand on.
First, off you are concocting a lot of things here.
Secondly, if you believe that something(s) just exploded in a big :boom: out of the blue and life magically appeared. :rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu

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