CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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danfo driver wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:19 am Note, however, that a jury or a judge can NEVER find a defendant "innocent." Not guilty = / = innocent
If you are found "not guilty" then you are innocent. You are innocent UNTIL you are proven guilty.

Courts don’t test innocence, they test guilt. So if you receive a "not guilty" verdict it means the prosecution could not prove their case in taking away your innocent status therefore you remain innocent.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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lol. Dude, I am a lawyer. And I have zero interest in semantics. I am telling you FACT here and feel free to ask any lawyer. Thats not how it works. Any first year law student (in their first semester) is specifically taught this in criminal law class. The criminal law professor actually spells this out to you on your first day! :lol:

A not guilty verdict is NOT and will NEVER be "innocent." A court does not deal with innocence, it simply cant and doesnt even wish to do so. The legal system does not care whether you are innocent. There is a specific reason the term "not guilty" was created and is in use, rather than "innocence." Do you know why? They could have used "innocent" but they actually decided against it! They chose the term "not-guilty" for a reason. Only the accused / God / and sometimes the victim will EVER know if the accused is innocent. As far as the court is concerned, can the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is sufficient evidence that you committed the crime? Whether you committed the crime or not is irrelevant. If your luck has run out that day and evidence points to you, you are fooked!

The YeyeMan wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:11 am
danfo driver wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:19 am Note, however, that a jury or a judge can NEVER find a defendant "innocent." Not guilty = / = innocent
If you are found "not guilty" then you are innocent. You are innocent UNTIL you are proven guilty.

Courts don’t test innocence, they test guilt. So if you receive a "not guilty" verdict it means the prosecution could not prove their case in taking away your innocent status therefore you remain innocent.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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Do you guys remember when an Arsenal player, Robin van Persie was arrested and locked up for 2 weeks for raping a woman? Then the case was dismissed? He then went on to play for and captained Arsenal.

We all remember a sick individual on Cybereagles who wants to end the careers of two black boys, but he supported Arsenal with Van Persie.

https://www.skysports.com/football/news ... -dismissed
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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danfo driver wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 4:21 am lol. Dude, I am a lawyer. And I have zero interest in semantics. I am telling you FACT here and feel free to ask any lawyer. Thats not how it works. Any first year law student (in their first semester) is specifically taught this in criminal law class. The criminal law professor actually spells this out to you on your first day! :lol:

A not guilty verdict is NOT and will NEVER be "innocent." A court does not deal with innocence, it simply cant and doesnt even wish to do so. The legal system does not care whether you are innocent. There is a specific reason the term "not guilty" was created and is in use, rather than "innocence." Do you know why? They could have used "innocent" but they actually decided against it! They chose the term "not-guilty" for a reason. Only the accused / God / and sometimes the victim will EVER know if the accused is innocent. As far as the court is concerned, can the prosecution prove beyond a reasonable doubt that there is sufficient evidence that you committed the crime? Whether you committed the crime or not is irrelevant. If your luck has run out that day and evidence points to you, you are fooked!

The YeyeMan wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 1:11 am
danfo driver wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 12:19 am Note, however, that a jury or a judge can NEVER find a defendant "innocent." Not guilty = / = innocent
If you are found "not guilty" then you are innocent. You are innocent UNTIL you are proven guilty.

Courts don’t test innocence, they test guilt. So if you receive a "not guilty" verdict it means the prosecution could not prove their case in taking away your innocent status therefore you remain innocent.
You're repeating what I've already said: Courts don't test for innocence, they test for guilt. That's why verdicts and pleas are based on whether the defendant is guilty - i.e. how do you plead - guilty or not guilty? That's why the burden of proving guilt lies with the prosecution.

There's no "innocent" verdict declared by a court. One is presumed innocent until they are proven guilty. For example, Mendy is presumed and remains innocent of the crimes he's been accused of... until (and if) he's found guilty.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by txj »

Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:59 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:35 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:23 pm
txj wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:56 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:26 am
Coach wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:58 am @Sleaky, as far as the okayness of Ched Evans playing football post-conviction is concerned, there is a noteworthy omission from your argument. Yes, Ched Evans is playing football again but one need only look at Sheff United’s attempt to re-sign him to learn of the challenges faced by the club in such instances. Sponsorships dropped, board members resigning, threats of stadium stand name changes if he were reemployed by the Blades, the list was endless.

The man is lucky to be playing but went through hell to get that luck. Greenwood has faced no court and therefore should be able to resume his career at United, the question is whether United will be willing to risk the blowback. There are certainly lobbyists and whoever else waiting to protest against anything other than his public execution. And yes, race is no doubt a factor here.
Coach it’s different because Ched actually had sex with the woman and went to jail after being convicted. This young man has been found totally not guilty and it didn’t even go to trial. IMHO, and I hope I’m not being prejudicial, I do believe that if he was freckled faced ginger this would be so done.

Hell even Ronaldo paid off a woman and admitted to having sex with her to which she later accused him of rape and he is still plying his trade. Nah im not having it … Injustice is injustice my good man … not having it.
Us folks of the UK need to stand up for the rights of all regardless.


Who found or declared him not guilty?

Not going to trial b/c the principal witness reneged is not evidence of lack of guilt. That is why Man United has launched their own investigation.

I'll be shocked if he ever played for them again...
TXJ,
Is this a language issue?
You can see I didn’t say innocent, but NOT GUILTY!!

Guilt needs to be proven my friend.
You can’t convict based on assumptions or preponderance.
I’m sure if that was you or a loved one on trial ….anyways.
You are right that guilt needs to be proven but where he has he been found "not guilty"? Who reached that verdict?

This is something bigpokey is struggling to get his empty head around (among other things).
Yeyeman,

He was found not guilty hence he wasn’t charged my friend.
Why are you and TXJ determined to convict this young lad?
He is not guilty …


I don't know where you're getting your information from, but he wasn't FOUND NOT GUILTY.

The prosecutor has simply discontinued the case because the principal witness withdrew.

That doesn't speak to guilt or lack therof.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by kalani JR »

I don't think the Partey case will necessarily play out like this. One of the accusers is still publicly against him, unlike Greenwood's girlfriend's situation.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by Sleaky72 »

TXJ,
You’re being tedious and engaging in unnecessary word play.

My friend, if there is evidence that a prosecutor feels that shows that you are guilty of a crime, you will be brought in to face those charges and be required to show that you are not guilty of the charges … or lemme better state it: the prosecutor needs to convince a judge or jury that you are guilty of those charges.

I don’t have time to waste with specific legal nonsense. This is simple language that a reasonable person should understand.

There wasn’t enough evidence to even warrant a court date, so what do you want us to deem this lad, and why does saying he is NOT GUILTY of any crime cause so much rancor?

Leave the kid alone and let him live his life … Jeez.
txj wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:08 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:59 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:35 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:23 pm
txj wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:56 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:26 am
Coach wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 4:58 am @Sleaky, as far as the okayness of Ched Evans playing football post-conviction is concerned, there is a noteworthy omission from your argument. Yes, Ched Evans is playing football again but one need only look at Sheff United’s attempt to re-sign him to learn of the challenges faced by the club in such instances. Sponsorships dropped, board members resigning, threats of stadium stand name changes if he were reemployed by the Blades, the list was endless.

The man is lucky to be playing but went through hell to get that luck. Greenwood has faced no court and therefore should be able to resume his career at United, the question is whether United will be willing to risk the blowback. There are certainly lobbyists and whoever else waiting to protest against anything other than his public execution. And yes, race is no doubt a factor here.
Coach it’s different because Ched actually had sex with the woman and went to jail after being convicted. This young man has been found totally not guilty and it didn’t even go to trial. IMHO, and I hope I’m not being prejudicial, I do believe that if he was freckled faced ginger this would be so done.

Hell even Ronaldo paid off a woman and admitted to having sex with her to which she later accused him of rape and he is still plying his trade. Nah im not having it … Injustice is injustice my good man … not having it.
Us folks of the UK need to stand up for the rights of all regardless.


Who found or declared him not guilty?

Not going to trial b/c the principal witness reneged is not evidence of lack of guilt. That is why Man United has launched their own investigation.

I'll be shocked if he ever played for them again...
TXJ,
Is this a language issue?
You can see I didn’t say innocent, but NOT GUILTY!!

Guilt needs to be proven my friend.
You can’t convict based on assumptions or preponderance.
I’m sure if that was you or a loved one on trial ….anyways.
You are right that guilt needs to be proven but where he has he been found "not guilty"? Who reached that verdict?

This is something bigpokey is struggling to get his empty head around (among other things).
Yeyeman,

He was found not guilty hence he wasn’t charged my friend.
Why are you and TXJ determined to convict this young lad?
He is not guilty …


I don't know where you're getting your information from, but he wasn't FOUND NOT GUILTY.

The prosecutor has simply discontinued the case because the principal witness withdrew.

That doesn't speak to guilt or lack therof.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by txj »

Not sure why you're struggling this badly with understanding the basics of the legal process.

The case is discontinued because the alleged victim has withdrawn from testifying.

It's not that he was found not guilty as you erroneously claimed.

Its also not for lack of evidence.

This is in part why the prosecutor has said that they retain the rights to file the suit again should the alleged victim change her stance.

What all this tells you is that a private settlement has probably been reached.



Sleaky72 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:40 pm TXJ,
You’re being tedious and engaging in unnecessary word play.

My friend, if there is evidence that a prosecutor feels that shows that you are guilty of a crime, you will be brought in to face those charges and be required to show that you are not guilty of the charges … or lemme better state it: the prosecutor needs to convince a judge or jury that you are guilty of those charges.

I don’t have time to waste with specific legal nonsense. This is simple language that a reasonable person should understand.

There wasn’t enough evidence to even warrant a court date, so what do you want us to deem this lad, and why does saying he is NOT GUILTY of any crime cause so much rancor?

Leave the kid alone and let him live his life … Jeez.
txj wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:08 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:59 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:35 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:23 pm
txj wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:56 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 5:26 am

Coach it’s different because Ched actually had sex with the woman and went to jail after being convicted. This young man has been found totally not guilty and it didn’t even go to trial. IMHO, and I hope I’m not being prejudicial, I do believe that if he was freckled faced ginger this would be so done.

Hell even Ronaldo paid off a woman and admitted to having sex with her to which she later accused him of rape and he is still plying his trade. Nah im not having it … Injustice is injustice my good man … not having it.
Us folks of the UK need to stand up for the rights of all regardless.


Who found or declared him not guilty?

Not going to trial b/c the principal witness reneged is not evidence of lack of guilt. That is why Man United has launched their own investigation.

I'll be shocked if he ever played for them again...
TXJ,
Is this a language issue?
You can see I didn’t say innocent, but NOT GUILTY!!

Guilt needs to be proven my friend.
You can’t convict based on assumptions or preponderance.
I’m sure if that was you or a loved one on trial ….anyways.
You are right that guilt needs to be proven but where he has he been found "not guilty"? Who reached that verdict?

This is something bigpokey is struggling to get his empty head around (among other things).
Yeyeman,

He was found not guilty hence he wasn’t charged my friend.
Why are you and TXJ determined to convict this young lad?
He is not guilty …


I don't know where you're getting your information from, but he wasn't FOUND NOT GUILTY.

The prosecutor has simply discontinued the case because the principal witness withdrew.

That doesn't speak to guilt or lack therof.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.

We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by Sleaky72 »

txj wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:17 am Not sure why you're struggling this badly with understanding the basics of the legal process.

The case is discontinued because the alleged victim has withdrawn from testifying.

It's not that he was found not guilty as you erroneously claimed.

Its also not for lack of evidence.

This is in part why the prosecutor has said that they retain the rights to file the suit again should the alleged victim change her stance.

What all this tells you is that a private settlement has probably been reached.



Sleaky72 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:40 pm TXJ,
You’re being tedious and engaging in unnecessary word play.

My friend, if there is evidence that a prosecutor feels that shows that you are guilty of a crime, you will be brought in to face those charges and be required to show that you are not guilty of the charges … or lemme better state it: the prosecutor needs to convince a judge or jury that you are guilty of those charges.

I don’t have time to waste with specific legal nonsense. This is simple language that a reasonable person should understand.

There wasn’t enough evidence to even warrant a court date, so what do you want us to deem this lad, and why does saying he is NOT GUILTY of any crime cause so much rancor?

Leave the kid alone and let him live his life … Jeez.
txj wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:08 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:59 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:35 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:23 pm
txj wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 3:56 pm



Who found or declared him not guilty?

Not going to trial b/c the principal witness reneged is not evidence of lack of guilt. That is why Man United has launched their own investigation.

I'll be shocked if he ever played for them again...
TXJ,
Is this a language issue?
You can see I didn’t say innocent, but NOT GUILTY!!

Guilt needs to be proven my friend.
You can’t convict based on assumptions or preponderance.
I’m sure if that was you or a loved one on trial ….anyways.
You are right that guilt needs to be proven but where he has he been found "not guilty"? Who reached that verdict?

This is something bigpokey is struggling to get his empty head around (among other things).
Yeyeman,

He was found not guilty hence he wasn’t charged my friend.
Why are you and TXJ determined to convict this young lad?
He is not guilty …


I don't know where you're getting your information from, but he wasn't FOUND NOT GUILTY.

The prosecutor has simply discontinued the case because the principal witness withdrew.

That doesn't speak to guilt or lack therof.

So let me get this right, it’s the language that is the rock in your sock right?
Ok, so lemme ask you how to define or describe the outcome of the Mason Greenwood case?

Please describe it in the most accurate terms that will make you feel good then
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by danfo driver »

Its not the language, its the procedure!

Whats wrong with you? You know its okay to be wrong right? You cant possibly know everything!
Sleaky72 wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 7:54 am
txj wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:17 am Not sure why you're struggling this badly with understanding the basics of the legal process.

The case is discontinued because the alleged victim has withdrawn from testifying.

It's not that he was found not guilty as you erroneously claimed.

Its also not for lack of evidence.

This is in part why the prosecutor has said that they retain the rights to file the suit again should the alleged victim change her stance.

What all this tells you is that a private settlement has probably been reached.



Sleaky72 wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 8:40 pm TXJ,
You’re being tedious and engaging in unnecessary word play.

My friend, if there is evidence that a prosecutor feels that shows that you are guilty of a crime, you will be brought in to face those charges and be required to show that you are not guilty of the charges … or lemme better state it: the prosecutor needs to convince a judge or jury that you are guilty of those charges.

I don’t have time to waste with specific legal nonsense. This is simple language that a reasonable person should understand.

There wasn’t enough evidence to even warrant a court date, so what do you want us to deem this lad, and why does saying he is NOT GUILTY of any crime cause so much rancor?

Leave the kid alone and let him live his life … Jeez.
txj wrote: Sat Feb 04, 2023 5:08 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 10:59 pm
The YeyeMan wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:35 pm
Sleaky72 wrote: Fri Feb 03, 2023 6:23 pm

TXJ,
Is this a language issue?
You can see I didn’t say innocent, but NOT GUILTY!!

Guilt needs to be proven my friend.
You can’t convict based on assumptions or preponderance.
I’m sure if that was you or a loved one on trial ….anyways.
You are right that guilt needs to be proven but where he has he been found "not guilty"? Who reached that verdict?

This is something bigpokey is struggling to get his empty head around (among other things).
Yeyeman,

He was found not guilty hence he wasn’t charged my friend.
Why are you and TXJ determined to convict this young lad?
He is not guilty …


I don't know where you're getting your information from, but he wasn't FOUND NOT GUILTY.

The prosecutor has simply discontinued the case because the principal witness withdrew.

That doesn't speak to guilt or lack therof.

So let me get this right, it’s the language that is the rock in your sock right?
Ok, so lemme ask you how to define or describe the outcome of the Mason Greenwood case?

Please describe it in the most accurate terms that will make you feel good then
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by wiseone »

A non-league club signed a player (Goodwillie) who was not actually tried or convicted of rape in a criminal trial (although he was taken to court for rape in a civil trial). Here is what happened:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64566717
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by YemiBrazil »

wiseone wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:16 am A non-league club signed a player (Goodwillie) who was not actually tried or convicted of rape in a criminal trial (although he was taken to court for rape in a civil trial). Here is what happened:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64566717
@Wiseone, the article says "Goodwillie was ruled to be a rapist and ordered to pay damages in a Scottish civil case. He never faced a criminal trial over the rape accusation after prosecutors said there was not enough evidence."

I don't know how "ruled to be a rapist" works out there but curious if Mason Greenwood faced a civil case and was ruled to be a rapist, and/or fined accordingly as applied in this case that you shared.
Last edited by YemiBrazil on Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by Cito »

YemiBrazil wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:19 pm
wiseone wrote: Thu Feb 09, 2023 2:16 am A non-league club signed a player (Goodwillie) who was not actually tried or convicted of rape in a criminal trial (although he was taken to court for rape in a civil trial). Here is what happened:

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/64566717
@Wiseone, the article says "Goodwillie was ruled to be a rapist and ordered to pay damages in a Scottish civil case. He never faced a criminal trial over the rape accusation after prosecutors said there was not enough evidence."

I don't know "ruled to be a rapist" works out there but curious if Mason Greenwood faced a civil case and was ruled to be a rapist, and/or fined accordingly as applied in this case that you shared.
The thing confuse me small too. I was wondering what the posted article got in common with the Greenwood case.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by wiseone »

Greenwood and his GF are expecting a baby. This is the GF that he was accused of/investigated for raping last year.

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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by Coach »

Consent is not a prerequisite for the axoneme to flap away and propel the sperm towards the egg. That she’s now expecting doesn’t mean she wasn’t more puffy faced than Sam Peters vs Vladimir Klitchko, beneath the order “legs up”. That in itself doesn’t confirm non-consensual sex followed, but is credible evidence of coercive control. Had the case gone to court, they would’ve found Greenwood guilty of some form of misbehaviour. That she dropped the case, doesn’t mean a crime was not committed.

What this case does show, with ample evidence, is that Greenwood is an absolute buffoon. Having gone full Chaka Khan, Through the Fire, he’s gone back to sit in the flames like Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego.

It’s often said of man, he knows his vice, that which will destroy him.
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by wiseone »

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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by Sleaky72 »

I forget, innocent until proven guilty applies to everyone except black men.
Whatever. Carry on.
Greenwood should seek a contract termination
and go find a club in the Middle East for a couple
of years and get paid and light up the league
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by wiseone »

…and then there was Hakimi.

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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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wiseone wrote: Sat Feb 25, 2023 5:41 am Greenwood and his GF are expecting a baby. This is the GF that he was accused of/investigated for raping last year.

Didn't it include assault as well with her pictures all over the media?
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

Post by Cito »

txj wrote: Sun Feb 05, 2023 1:17 am Not sure why you're struggling this badly with understanding the basics of the legal process.

The case is discontinued because the alleged victim has withdrawn from testifying.

It's not that he was found not guilty as you erroneously claimed.

Its also not for lack of evidence.

This is in part why the prosecutor has said that they retain the rights to file the suit again should the alleged victim change her stance.

What all this tells you is that a private settlement has probably been reached.

:rotf: :rotf: :rotf:
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wiseone
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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The Athletic published an insightful article about Greenwood (behind a paywall). It appears that the rape charge was not his only issue and that he has had multiple disciplinary breaches over the past 3 years including:

1) A Covid breach with Phil Foden where they invited girls to their hotel rooms while on England duty which resulted in Southgate expelling both of them from the squad:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=301630&hilit=Greenwood

2) Breaking national Covid rules and hosting loud parties in the middle of the Covid lockdown.

3) Being late for training and going MIA.

Man Utd were apparently so worried about him (given their prior bad experience with Ravel Morrison) that they gave him special attention, did not let him speak much to the press, and did a lot of work to keep him grounded. They knew he was going to “Make It” since he was a 10yo in the academy

Players in the club’s women’s teams and sponsors are not enthusiastic about him returning to the team.
Last edited by wiseone on Mon Apr 03, 2023 4:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Sleaky72
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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wiseone wrote: Sun Apr 02, 2023 1:12 pm The Athletic published an insightful article about Greenwood (behind a paywall). It appears that the rape charge was not his only issue and that he has had multiple disciplinary breaches over the past 3 years including:

1) The games Covid breach with Phil Foden where they invited girls to their hotel rooms while on England duty which resulted in Southgate expelling both of them from the squad:

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=301630&hilit=Greenwood

2) Breaking national Covid rules and hosting loud parties in the middle of the Covid lockdown.

3) Being late for training and going MIA.

Man Utd were apparently so worried about him (given their prior bad experience with Ravel Morrison) that they gave him special attention, did not let him speak much to the press, and did a lot of work to keep him grounded. They knew he was going to “Make It” since he was a 10yo in the academy

Players in the club’s women’s teams and sponsors are not enthusiastic about him returning to the team.
Who didn’t flout Covid restrictions in England? The prime minister at the time?
And the women can pound salt for all I care. If the party that he allegedly offended is okay in his arms then what the hell is their problem.

If they have such pebble in their sock over this lad then they should just sell him and let him move on with his life
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Re: CPS Drops Charges Against Mason Greenwood

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