Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

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Scipio Africanus
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Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Scipio Africanus »

Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.

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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by danfo driver »

I said it in the summer that he fooked himself over. For him to allow that shameless defense to continue this season was mind-boggling. He did it to himself. He should have walked in the Summer rather than continue with that crap.
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by wanaj0 »

Scipio Africanus wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:04 pm Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.
Not everyone have the option of such 'good alternatives'. How many BLACKS have that opportunity?

He did the right thing. At least he had opportunity to showcase what he can do last season. A very BIG experience on his CV. Wishing him the best in his future endeavours
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Siddonlook11 »

wanaj0 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:04 am
Scipio Africanus wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:04 pm Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.
Not everyone have the option of such 'good alternatives'. How many BLACKS have that opportunity?

He did the right thing. At least he had opportunity to showcase what he can do last season. A very BIG experience on his CV. Wishing him the best in his future endeavours
I do hope you are right the history is kind of damning on his resume - he left NYC, was fired by NICE and now fired by CP.
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

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Siddonlook11 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 10:18 am
wanaj0 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:04 am
Scipio Africanus wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:04 pm Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.
Not everyone have the option of such 'good alternatives'. How many BLACKS have that opportunity?

He did the right thing. At least he had opportunity to showcase what he can do last season. A very BIG experience on his CV. Wishing him the best in his future endeavours
I do hope you are right the history is kind of damning on his resume - he left NYC, was fired by NICE and now fired by CP.
Mourinho left Porto and Inter. He was however fired more or less at Chelsea (2ce), Real Madrid, Man United and Spurs!
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Scipio Africanus »

danfo driver wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 1:03 am I said it in the summer that he fooked himself over. For him to allow that shameless defense to continue this season was mind-boggling. He did it to himself. He should have walked in the Summer rather than continue with that crap.
:agree:

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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Scipio Africanus »

wanaj0 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:04 am
Scipio Africanus wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:04 pm Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.
Not everyone have the option of such 'good alternatives'. How many BLACKS have that opportunity?

He did the right thing. At least he had opportunity to showcase what he can do last season. A very BIG experience on his CV. Wishing him the best in his future endeavours
If he had the opportunity to coach a Premier League team he has options. Your reply comes from an "employee mentality". You will never get anywhere with an employee mentality.

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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by wanaj0 »

Scipio Africanus wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:50 pm
wanaj0 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:04 am
Scipio Africanus wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:04 pm Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.
Not everyone have the option of such 'good alternatives'. How many BLACKS have that opportunity?

He did the right thing. At least he had opportunity to showcase what he can do last season. A very BIG experience on his CV. Wishing him the best in his future endeavours
If he had the opportunity to coach a Premier League team he has options. Your reply comes from an "employee mentality". You will never get anywhere with an employee mentality.
Seriously? Ok ooo

But Viera is an employee so which mentality should he have? All the other black coaches without employee mentality where are they currently?

As at the time he took the Crystal Palace job he has little or nothing on his CV. He needed an opportunity to show what he can do which was what that opportunity gave him. Now with that CV he can make demands. Hopefully color of his skin will not deny him of opportunity!
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Scipio Africanus »

wanaj0 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 4:31 pm
Scipio Africanus wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 2:50 pm
wanaj0 wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 7:04 am
Scipio Africanus wrote: Sat Mar 18, 2023 9:04 pm Proper spending by CP before taking the job. He should have declined the job if his conditions were not met. This is a lesson to all of us in our careers. Demand everything that you think you'll need to succeed, or do not take the job. Walk! Another opportunity will present itself.
Not everyone have the option of such 'good alternatives'. How many BLACKS have that opportunity?

He did the right thing. At least he had opportunity to showcase what he can do last season. A very BIG experience on his CV. Wishing him the best in his future endeavours
If he had the opportunity to coach a Premier League team he has options. Your reply comes from an "employee mentality". You will never get anywhere with an employee mentality.
Seriously? Ok ooo

But Viera is an employee so which mentality should he have? All the other black coaches without employee mentality where are they currently?
You can be an employee without having an employee mentality. Not having an employee mentality means believing in your own value. Vieira is not "all other Black coaches" anymore than Mourinho is "all other white coaches".

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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Kabalega »

Let’s call a spade a spade, this CP team is poorly coached.

Under good coaching these CP players can do way better.
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Scipio Africanus »

Kabalega wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:00 pm Let’s call a spade a spade, this CP team is poorly coached.

Under good coaching these CP players can do way better.
I agree it is poorly coached. Uncle Pat is no longer the coach. :mrgreen: They just chopped 4 goals today. More than they ever chopped when Uncle Pat was coach. Uncle Pat never lost at the Emirates either 8-)

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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by cchinukw »

A bit of perspective here. Crystal Palace was in 12th position at the time Pato left.

For Crystal Palace that is a realistic position to be in with the level of player investment in that club.
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Kabalega »

cchinukw wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:40 pm A bit of perspective here. Crystal Palace was in 12th position at the time Pato left.

For Crystal Palace that is a realistic position to be in with the level of player investment in that club.
:lol: :lol: A bit of perspective? CP are 4 points ahead of bottom placed Southampton after 28 games each.
That’s four points off the bottom of the table. :lol: :lol:
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by Benedict Iroha »

Kabalega wrote: Sun Mar 19, 2023 6:00 pm Let’s call a spade a spade, this CP team is poorly coached.

Under good coaching these CP players can do way better.
:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: 4-1 chopping.
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

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Crystal Palace have sacked manager Patrick Vieira after 20 months in charge.

The Eagles are 12th in the Premier League table but only three points clear of the relegation zone, having played a game more than five of the eight teams below them.

Here is a closer look at Vieira’s record.

Poor form
Palace are the only Premier League team without a win in 2023.

Goalscoring has been their biggest issue – since beating Bournemouth 2-0 on New Year’s Eve, Vieira’s side have scored just four goals in 11 matches.

Their total of 21 goals in 27 games this season is the joint-second lowest in the top-flight, with only Wolves, Everton and Southampton having scored fewer (20). It is also barely half of their tally at the same stage last term (37).


The Eagles remain reliant on Wilfried Zaha for attacking threat. The Ivorian has scored 20 Premier League goals since Vieira took over – 14 last season and six this – while nobody else has reached double figures.

Mitigating factors
A daunting fixture list has undoubtedly contributed to Palace’s struggles.

Ten of their 11 matches in 2023 have been against teams in the top half of the table, with Vieira’s men having faced Manchester United and Brighton at home and away, as well as Manchester City, Newcastle, Tottenham, Chelsea and Brentford.

As a result, their next manager will benefit from a relatively kind schedule until the end of the season, with eight of their final 11 matches due to be played against teams in the bottom half of the league.

Overall record
Vieira took charge of 65 Premier League games as Palace manager, the fourth-most in their history after Steve Coppell (70), Alan Pardew (73) and Roy Hodgson (148).

He managed 17 wins, 24 draws and 24 defeats in those matches, with 71 goals scored and 80 conceded.

The former Arsenal midfielder made Palace difficult to beat – while his top-flight win percentage (26 per cent) ranks below Hodgson, Pardew, Sam Allardyce and Tony Pulis, he lost a lower proportion of matches (37 per cent) than any of his predecessors.

Back to square one
Vieira’s departure means there are no black managers in the Premier League for the first time since 2016-17.


Only last month, the former World Cup winner spoke of his concerns over the lack of black coaches in top jobs after being named on this year’s Football Black List.

“It troubles me a lot,” said Vieira. “It’s difficult for me to get it and to understand it and I think that just shows there is still a long way to go.”

Vincent Kompany, who manages Championship leaders Burnley, was also recognised for his impact.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/foo ... 02937.html
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Re: Vieira should have insisted on and gotten assurances of ...

Post by cchinukw »

Why Crystal Palace were wrong to hastily sack Patrick Vieira
by Ben McAleer at Friday, Mar 17 2023 13:44

An 11-game winless run, the longest in the Premier League this season, resulted in Patrick Vieira's dismissal as Crystal Palace boss on Friday morning. The dire run of form means the Eagles are looking nervously over their shoulder as we head into the first international break of the year.

Just three points separate Palace and the relegation zone as the south London side seek to beat the drop. They are one of only two teams in the top four tiers of English football, along with League One side Forest Green, yet to win a league match in 2023. On the face of it, Vieira's sacking is the logical decision for a Palace side desperate to retain their Premier League status.

However, were Palace too hasty to relieve Vieira of his duties at Selhurst Park? Yes, an 11-game winless run is relegation form, and were they to drop down into the Championship, then the dire showings in 2023 will be the reason why. Not only have they failed to pick up maximum points in a league match since a 2-0 win at Bournemouth on New Year's Eve, but this streak significantly impacts confidence.

That being said, Palace, despite the results, haven't been that bad in recent months. A 4-0 home defeat to Tottenham in January kicked off their run, yet since then; five defeats and five draws don't make for bad reading. Crucially is since that loss to Spurs, their five defeats have been by the single goal. Palace aren't getting torn to shreds by opponents, but remain in games up until full time. A little luck going their way, and things could have been so different for Vieira.

Commendably still, they have picked up results against sides chasing a top-four finish. Of the five draws in their last 11 games, three have come with Manchester United at Selhurst Park, Newcastle and Liverpool, while Palace have also taken points off high-flying pair Brentford and Brighton. They would have beaten the Bees in west London were it not for a late, late Vitaly Janelt equaliser.

Their meeting with Arsenal on Sunday also ends a tough run of games for Vieira's side. Indeed, since the turn of the year, they have faced Manchester United twice, rivals Brighton twice, Tottenham, Liverpool, Brentford, Newcastle, Chelsea and Manchester City. For any team, this is an incredibly tough run of games, and even for a Palace side down on their luck, to have only lost their five matches by the one goal, two of which were penalties and one an own goal, means the decision to sack Vieira is a tough one.

While Palace, despite their solid showings at the Emirates in recent years, are expected to lose to an Arsenal side reeling from their Europa League exit this weekend, the games after the international break are wholly more important for the Eagles. At the time of writing, Palace will take on five of the current bottom six in their seven league matches between now and the end of April.

Perhaps the need for "new-manager bounce" is what swayed the Palace boards' decision to sack Vieira. To do so before the international break will give the new man at the Selhurst Park helm the chance to familiarise himself with the players at his disposal ahead of a crunch run of games.

Yet even with the poor form, Palace remain difficult to break down. They have conceded just 34 goals this season, the eighth fewest in the Premier League, a return better than Manchester United (35) and Tottenham (37), and it's the lack of goals that are the primary issue. 21 goals scored is the fourth lowest return in England's top tier, while a conversion rate of just 7.5% is the fifth worst.

In addition, Palace are averaging just 7.5 key passes per game, again the fifth lowest, so they are hardly creating chances with any great regularity, but with a sound defensive record, they are continuing to compete with opponents.

Nevertheless, it is now impossible to say how Palace would have fared had they stuck with Vieira. Perhaps the rot had really set in, and that ultimately contributed towards the Frenchman's dismissal, but they now need to get their next appointment right if they are to beat the drop. Everton and Wolves have proven this is possible, but Southampton and Leeds are struggling following managerial upheaval.

Ultimately, it could prove the decision to sack Vieira on the back of their midweek derby defeat to Brighton was the right one, especially if they start to pull away from danger, but to dismiss the former Nice man at this stage of the season is a risk, and one that Palace can ill-afford to get wrong.

Follow Ben McAleer on Twitter.com

https://www.whoscored.com/Articles/SiY6 ... ick-Vieira
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