Messi's win isn't good for football.
Messi's win isn't good for football.
I expect this to be a controversial thread, no matter how I try to explain the point. It doesn't really matter what I say beyond this point. There is no way it won't be controversial. But to be clear, I do not INTEND to be controversial. Far from it. It's just one of those things. If you make any point that is not mainstream, well it will be controversial....
Firstly, I am NOT making this post under the assumption that he did not deserve the award. Though I am not entirely sure how the maths worked in his favour, because I honestly do not know how they judge such awards. It seems a bit provincial to say "He won the World Cup" or he had "a great season". These things are not immediately clear to me as conclusive reasons why he should win. First of all, he did not single handedly win the World Cup, Mbappe IMO for example was even BETTER in the final. Mbappe was unlucky, as far as I am concerned. And Martinez for example would have been seen as much a World Cup hero (if not more) than Messi, had his legend been as sexy or his position. So it is a complex thing, something much more complicated than it is explained in most tabloids. But I do not want to pretend that I have done all of the calculations myself. So let us just assume that he won it fair and square, above Mbappe and Haaland. For that is not even the point of this thread.
Henceforth, I will actually borrow from Ayo Akinfe so that I hit the point sharply and quickly first.
1) So he won it. Others paled in comparison to him. Initially this is a good thing for any sport, to have such a dominant figure.
2) However, everything in life has diminishing returns. It doesn't matter what. It reaches a certain point where you begin to get less bang for your buck.
3) I think with Messi we have reached the point of diminishing return. There comes a time, when dominance becomes so extreme that it begins to question the very competitiveness of a sport or league. IRRESPECTIVE of how great a player was or a team.
4) You see, it doesn't matter how great Bayern Munich has been in recent history, there comes a time when it actually diminishes the rest of the Bundesliga.
5) And in fact, it can have a boomerang effect! Where you become so dominant that you diminish your own dominance. People begin to question your competition, rather than bask in your greatness.
6) Messi was incredibly fortunate to have had Cristiano Ronaldo, more than most people realise.
7) You see if we didn't have Ronaldo, Luka Modric, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski, Benzema etc. in Messi's era, it would make sense to wonder if the player shone in a 'weak era'.
8) Cristiano Ronaldo's own excellence actually strengthens Messi's legend and vice versa (something fans that are exclusive to either) foolishly do not realise. But something that BOTH realise. The best thing that ever happened to either was the other.
9) We are certain that Messi is the GOAT, because he did all he did and stacked up well against other such greats.
10) However, Football IMO is the most competitive sport on the planet. Maybe not the most difficult, but the most competitive. Why? Simply because of how far-reaching the sport is.
11) It is so competitive that I find it unfathomable that ANY human being (irrespective of how talented they are) could win a major global award 8 times.
12) This is not Table Tennis, nor is it even the NFL.
13) At a time when Messi is approaching 40, players like Mbappe and Haaland should have already claimed the edge.
14) Now, I also watch a lot of Tennis, so I am also aware of the unusual dominance of Djokovic, Nadal, and to a lesser extent Federer.
15) There is something very interesting about Djokovic than many fans may not realise. Carloz Alcaraz is ALREADY better than him. Yet Djokovic will still get better results in the Slams and Masters 1000. Why is this?
16) The easy answer is that Djokovic is simply better. This is flat out wrong.
17) Another answer is that Djokovic is more consistent. This is a slightly better answer, but still somewhat wrong.
18) Djokovic has built an aura of invincibility. Which is to say that he wins matches BEFORE he even steps onto the court.
19) And becomes he has trimmed his schedule down to the bare bones AND his opponents defeat themselves before the match even commence, this dinosaur of a player can actually edge out young players who may even be BETTER.
20) So back to the diminutive Argentinian. I don't care how good the player is or how much talent is imbued in his dna. This is football. It is not Basketball, it is not Water Polo. The competition is otherworldly. I think it is likely that Haaland, Lewandowski, Benzema, Mbappe etc. are ALREADY better than Messi, and there is evidence to suggest this.
21) I think a similar thing is probably on show. Messi has an aura of invincibility!
22) Now the thing about the aura of invincibility is that it is obviously earned, but it still prolongs the greatness of a player.
I do not think it makes any sense that Messi is still the best player in the world. I think people are giving him too much credit and undermining their own worth. if they continue to do this, the player may win 12 Ballon d'ors.
The reason I say his win isn't good for football. Is simple. At a certain point, dominance makes a sport look weak. I didn't say this when he won 4 or 5 or 6 o r 7. I feel however that we have reached that point. Messi is beginning to make the sport look bad. Now the reason I said that this would be controversial, is that most people would intercept this thread simplistically. As if this was some sort of criticism towards the player. It is NOT.
But I would say it is criticism towards the rest of the field. I think the time has come to begin to 'retire the player'. We have to preserve the competitiveness of this sport. So I challenge every player out there, whether it is Osimhen or Haaland or Mbappe or Bellingham to rise to the occasion. Messi is the GOAT but football is even greater.
No player can ever rise above football. This is not a mickey mouse sport. It is the most competitive sport on the planet. Even a Demi-god should not be able to win 8 Ballon d'ors.
And before you say this is a strange thread or whatever, it has PRECEDENCE EVERYWHERE. Every single time dominance reaches a certain point, it has diminishing returns.
Manchester City's dominance in the EPL is now making the league look bad. If they should win it this season, it is a monumental disaster for the league.
Firstly, I am NOT making this post under the assumption that he did not deserve the award. Though I am not entirely sure how the maths worked in his favour, because I honestly do not know how they judge such awards. It seems a bit provincial to say "He won the World Cup" or he had "a great season". These things are not immediately clear to me as conclusive reasons why he should win. First of all, he did not single handedly win the World Cup, Mbappe IMO for example was even BETTER in the final. Mbappe was unlucky, as far as I am concerned. And Martinez for example would have been seen as much a World Cup hero (if not more) than Messi, had his legend been as sexy or his position. So it is a complex thing, something much more complicated than it is explained in most tabloids. But I do not want to pretend that I have done all of the calculations myself. So let us just assume that he won it fair and square, above Mbappe and Haaland. For that is not even the point of this thread.
Henceforth, I will actually borrow from Ayo Akinfe so that I hit the point sharply and quickly first.
1) So he won it. Others paled in comparison to him. Initially this is a good thing for any sport, to have such a dominant figure.
2) However, everything in life has diminishing returns. It doesn't matter what. It reaches a certain point where you begin to get less bang for your buck.
3) I think with Messi we have reached the point of diminishing return. There comes a time, when dominance becomes so extreme that it begins to question the very competitiveness of a sport or league. IRRESPECTIVE of how great a player was or a team.
4) You see, it doesn't matter how great Bayern Munich has been in recent history, there comes a time when it actually diminishes the rest of the Bundesliga.
5) And in fact, it can have a boomerang effect! Where you become so dominant that you diminish your own dominance. People begin to question your competition, rather than bask in your greatness.
6) Messi was incredibly fortunate to have had Cristiano Ronaldo, more than most people realise.
7) You see if we didn't have Ronaldo, Luka Modric, Ibrahimovic, Lewandowski, Benzema etc. in Messi's era, it would make sense to wonder if the player shone in a 'weak era'.
8) Cristiano Ronaldo's own excellence actually strengthens Messi's legend and vice versa (something fans that are exclusive to either) foolishly do not realise. But something that BOTH realise. The best thing that ever happened to either was the other.
9) We are certain that Messi is the GOAT, because he did all he did and stacked up well against other such greats.
10) However, Football IMO is the most competitive sport on the planet. Maybe not the most difficult, but the most competitive. Why? Simply because of how far-reaching the sport is.
11) It is so competitive that I find it unfathomable that ANY human being (irrespective of how talented they are) could win a major global award 8 times.
12) This is not Table Tennis, nor is it even the NFL.
13) At a time when Messi is approaching 40, players like Mbappe and Haaland should have already claimed the edge.
14) Now, I also watch a lot of Tennis, so I am also aware of the unusual dominance of Djokovic, Nadal, and to a lesser extent Federer.
15) There is something very interesting about Djokovic than many fans may not realise. Carloz Alcaraz is ALREADY better than him. Yet Djokovic will still get better results in the Slams and Masters 1000. Why is this?
16) The easy answer is that Djokovic is simply better. This is flat out wrong.
17) Another answer is that Djokovic is more consistent. This is a slightly better answer, but still somewhat wrong.
18) Djokovic has built an aura of invincibility. Which is to say that he wins matches BEFORE he even steps onto the court.
19) And becomes he has trimmed his schedule down to the bare bones AND his opponents defeat themselves before the match even commence, this dinosaur of a player can actually edge out young players who may even be BETTER.
20) So back to the diminutive Argentinian. I don't care how good the player is or how much talent is imbued in his dna. This is football. It is not Basketball, it is not Water Polo. The competition is otherworldly. I think it is likely that Haaland, Lewandowski, Benzema, Mbappe etc. are ALREADY better than Messi, and there is evidence to suggest this.
21) I think a similar thing is probably on show. Messi has an aura of invincibility!
22) Now the thing about the aura of invincibility is that it is obviously earned, but it still prolongs the greatness of a player.
I do not think it makes any sense that Messi is still the best player in the world. I think people are giving him too much credit and undermining their own worth. if they continue to do this, the player may win 12 Ballon d'ors.
The reason I say his win isn't good for football. Is simple. At a certain point, dominance makes a sport look weak. I didn't say this when he won 4 or 5 or 6 o r 7. I feel however that we have reached that point. Messi is beginning to make the sport look bad. Now the reason I said that this would be controversial, is that most people would intercept this thread simplistically. As if this was some sort of criticism towards the player. It is NOT.
But I would say it is criticism towards the rest of the field. I think the time has come to begin to 'retire the player'. We have to preserve the competitiveness of this sport. So I challenge every player out there, whether it is Osimhen or Haaland or Mbappe or Bellingham to rise to the occasion. Messi is the GOAT but football is even greater.
No player can ever rise above football. This is not a mickey mouse sport. It is the most competitive sport on the planet. Even a Demi-god should not be able to win 8 Ballon d'ors.
And before you say this is a strange thread or whatever, it has PRECEDENCE EVERYWHERE. Every single time dominance reaches a certain point, it has diminishing returns.
Manchester City's dominance in the EPL is now making the league look bad. If they should win it this season, it is a monumental disaster for the league.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
I should add an addendum about the Djokovic point. Not only do other players add an aura of invincibility to the player, at the same time, they lack a belief in THEMSELVES. Alcaraz is ALREADY the best player in the world, though his results will often not show this. Because he lacks the same belief in himself that Djokovic has. But this is fine, it takes time to cultivate.
I think there are at least four players that are ALREADY better than Messi. But they need to start believing in THEMSELVES, and stop adding the aura of invincibility to Messi and even Ronaldo.
The reality, there is more than enough talent in tennis right now to stop Djokovic from winning another slam. Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, Zverev, just to name a few. But in all likelihood Djokovic WILL win another slam again. because they will defeat themselves before they step on the court, and undermine how good they really are. For all the talk that Alcaraz has been doing, he does not fully belief in his abilities. In fact, one might argue that Novak believes in him more than he believes in himself. The Serb ALREADY knows that he has been bettered. But they do not have his mental edge.
Djokovic his my favourite tennis player and I have an immense respect for Messi, but I do not want to see either continue to dominate. This is because I believe the new generation are ALREADY better, but are shooting themselves in the foot. I do not think they CAN be better. I think they are ALREADY better.
The aura of invincibility is a powerful force when you are dominant. Even the Super Eagles benefitted from it. Teams would fear us before we even did anything on the pitch. It took a long time for teams to stop fearing us needlessly. Mike Tyson also benefitted from it. He won fights before it even started. But if you take it away, you'd be surprised what you can do against a a legend.
Now is the time for the new generation in both Tennis and Football to rise. Not in 5 years time, but RIGHT now.
I think there are at least four players that are ALREADY better than Messi. But they need to start believing in THEMSELVES, and stop adding the aura of invincibility to Messi and even Ronaldo.
The reality, there is more than enough talent in tennis right now to stop Djokovic from winning another slam. Alcaraz, Sinner, Medvedev, Zverev, just to name a few. But in all likelihood Djokovic WILL win another slam again. because they will defeat themselves before they step on the court, and undermine how good they really are. For all the talk that Alcaraz has been doing, he does not fully belief in his abilities. In fact, one might argue that Novak believes in him more than he believes in himself. The Serb ALREADY knows that he has been bettered. But they do not have his mental edge.
Djokovic his my favourite tennis player and I have an immense respect for Messi, but I do not want to see either continue to dominate. This is because I believe the new generation are ALREADY better, but are shooting themselves in the foot. I do not think they CAN be better. I think they are ALREADY better.
The aura of invincibility is a powerful force when you are dominant. Even the Super Eagles benefitted from it. Teams would fear us before we even did anything on the pitch. It took a long time for teams to stop fearing us needlessly. Mike Tyson also benefitted from it. He won fights before it even started. But if you take it away, you'd be surprised what you can do against a a legend.
Now is the time for the new generation in both Tennis and Football to rise. Not in 5 years time, but RIGHT now.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
First off, Messi wins a lot of things. What did he win this time that rankled you? 
Which makes your further arguments, meaningless and exposes your whole post as an exercise of hatorade.
I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, it renders the whole idea of awarding the best player irrelevant.First of all, he did not single handedly win the World Cup
Which makes your further arguments, meaningless and exposes your whole post as an exercise of hatorade.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
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Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
When will Uganda start winning something like Messi?Kabalega wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:30 pm First off, Messi wins a lot of things. What did he win this time that rankled you?
I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, it renders the whole idea of awarding the best player irrelevant.First of all, he did not single-handedly win the World Cup
Which makes your further arguments, meaningless and exposes your whole post as an exercise of hatorade.
I SEE DEAD PEOPLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
It cannot be hatorade. This is one of the things I don't like about CE. You cannot state how and why or what etc.Kabalega wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:30 pm First off, Messi wins a lot of things. What did he win this time that rankled you?
I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, it renders the whole idea of awarding the best player irrelevant.First of all, he did not single handedly win the World Cup
Which makes your further arguments, meaningless and exposes your whole post as an exercise of hatorade.
Firstly, it would be extremely moronic of me to suggest that Messi is somehow at fault here. It's one of those things where a person reads a title and then decides to interpret it according to how they WANT to see it. Which I EXPECTED. But I do not exactly know how to prevent. I cannot rewire people's perceptions.
Messi is absolutely at the pinnacle of the sport. But let me put two simple points.
1) Should he be at the pinnacle of the sport at this late stage? I do not think so.
2) Is the fact that he is at the pinnacle of the sport at this late stage good for the sport? I do not think so.
Why?
1) There are at least four players better than him right now. The problem like in Tennis, how there are at least 4-6 players able to prevent Djokovic from another Slam is the aura of invincibility and a simultaneous lack of belief in their own abilities. They are ALREADY better than Messi, just as the new generation are ALREADY better than Djokovic. But they are delaying their own ascension.
2) The delay in ascension makes both sports look bad beyond a certain point. It will cheapen the next generation, as incapable of even unseating old men.
Now the reason I say how is this hatorade, is very simple. Am I laying the blame at Messi or Djokovic? The latter which is my FAVOURITE player? NO! I am questioning the next generation's inability to GROW UP.
And the Preamble was actually more important in my argument than even I anticipated. Why? Because we can already see examples (objectively) that in terms of overall ability the Older generation (Messi, Ronaldo), Nadal, Djokovic have ALREADY been surpassed.
The level of consistency that Haaland has today cannot be matched by Messi, and even in the showdown between Mbappe and Messi, I believe that Mbappe came out on top. So, this is not a question of subjectivity or opionions or hatorade. I think they are already better, in fact I think Messi might admit as much. Djokovic ALREADY has.
The problem is they do not fully believe it. This is not a case of a young Neymar trying to leave Messi's shadow. This is more like a son that surpasses his father but refuses to leave the family home.
In history, people will not identify that Haaland, Mbappe, Lewandowski etc. were able to become theoretically better in 2021-2023, all they will see is that the awards did not go their way. It will cheapen their legacy.
So I think for football's sake, it is very important that they step up immediately to take their place. You have to understand where I am coming from. Talent can only take you so far. This is not the time of Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain or Pele. This is the time of cutting edge nutrition, power, and pace. No matter how talented a player is, in a truly competitive league, a player (even the GOAT should be falling out of the top 5) by about age 35.
This is my theory, supported by objective facts. Anything else, and one has to question the field, and even the sport itself.
Beyond a certain point, if an old man is still #1, you have to wonder about the sport. So yes I do wonder about the state of Tennis and Football. Lebron James is already out of the top 5. Brady was 14th in 2020! GOAT or no GOAT it makes no difference. A 35 year old man should be unseated in a physically demanding modern sport.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
So no I cannot look at this 8th Ballon D'or win and think it is good for the sport. It is very bad news for the sport. In NO WAY is it good for the sport. It doesn't add much to Messi's legend, instead it makes the sport look less physically demanding or the new generation look feeble, to be losing out to a 35 year old. In NFL, the old man was ranked 14th! Had Haaland won it, it would have heralded the strength of the new generation.
Messi deserves the award (pending further analysis) but by winning it, competition in the sport is entirely eroded. For those who worship the man LITERALLY (I am not one, I worship no man) they cannot think analytically and see how this reflects well on the sport. Haaland is already physically better, but supposedly choked in the Champions League. So what does this mean about our next gen? That they are mentally weak? Certainly they are not physically weaker than the Argentinian.
In fact Mbappe pipped Messi in the World Cup as far as I am concerned, as did others arguably.
but I think in football we are more sentimental than most sports. https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... ty-contest
Americans do not see who lifts the trophy, they calculate everything down to the last decimal.
The Americans are more objective and analytical than the Europeans when it comes to such matters. I think they see the big picture. Europeans are more romantic. We need to think about the big picture here. It is not to say that Messi should hang up his boots, he can only win what is in front of him. Rather I am saying to the younger generation to take what is theirs. They are ALREADY better. I keep emphasising this point. To show that this is not about hatorade. It is a matter of mentality.
If the new generation have the same mentality as Cristiano or Djokovic, the old generation have no chance whatsoever. There is a thing in sports about giving a legend too much respect. Francis Ngannou was only able to do what he did against Fury because he pushed the pace and didn't give him too much respect. I watch A LOT of sports. I maybe watch a greater diversity of sports than most human beings. So I know these things. Messi, Djokovic are GOATS, but I also know they are not the best right now theoretically. I think a big part of their continued dominance is in people's minds. They are giving them too much credit. It is hard not to. But you do not HAVE to. Francis Ngannou showed that it is not NECESSARY.
Messi deserves the award (pending further analysis) but by winning it, competition in the sport is entirely eroded. For those who worship the man LITERALLY (I am not one, I worship no man) they cannot think analytically and see how this reflects well on the sport. Haaland is already physically better, but supposedly choked in the Champions League. So what does this mean about our next gen? That they are mentally weak? Certainly they are not physically weaker than the Argentinian.
In fact Mbappe pipped Messi in the World Cup as far as I am concerned, as did others arguably.
but I think in football we are more sentimental than most sports. https://www.espn.com/soccer/story/_/id/ ... ty-contest
Americans do not see who lifts the trophy, they calculate everything down to the last decimal.
The Americans are more objective and analytical than the Europeans when it comes to such matters. I think they see the big picture. Europeans are more romantic. We need to think about the big picture here. It is not to say that Messi should hang up his boots, he can only win what is in front of him. Rather I am saying to the younger generation to take what is theirs. They are ALREADY better. I keep emphasising this point. To show that this is not about hatorade. It is a matter of mentality.
If the new generation have the same mentality as Cristiano or Djokovic, the old generation have no chance whatsoever. There is a thing in sports about giving a legend too much respect. Francis Ngannou was only able to do what he did against Fury because he pushed the pace and didn't give him too much respect. I watch A LOT of sports. I maybe watch a greater diversity of sports than most human beings. So I know these things. Messi, Djokovic are GOATS, but I also know they are not the best right now theoretically. I think a big part of their continued dominance is in people's minds. They are giving them too much credit. It is hard not to. But you do not HAVE to. Francis Ngannou showed that it is not NECESSARY.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
Undertaker wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 4:25 amWhen will Uganda start winning something like Messi?Kabalega wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:30 pm First off, Messi wins a lot of things. What did he win this time that rankled you?
I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, it renders the whole idea of awarding the best player irrelevant.First of all, he did not single-handedly win the World Cup
Which makes your further arguments, meaningless and exposes your whole post as an exercise of hatorade.
Siddon look. “If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
Sorry this doesn’t make sense.Tbite wrote: ↑Sat Nov 04, 2023 11:30 amIt cannot be hatorade. This is one of the things I don't like about CE. You cannot state how and why or what etc.Kabalega wrote: ↑Fri Nov 03, 2023 8:30 pm First off, Messi wins a lot of things. What did he win this time that rankled you?
I agree with this statement. Unfortunately, it renders the whole idea of awarding the best player irrelevant.First of all, he did not single handedly win the World Cup
Which makes your further arguments, meaningless and exposes your whole post as an exercise of hatorade.
Firstly, it would be extremely moronic of me to suggest that Messi is somehow at fault here. It's one of those things where a person reads a title and then decides to interpret it according to how they WANT to see it. Which I EXPECTED. But I do not exactly know how to prevent. I cannot rewire people's perceptions.
Messi is absolutely at the pinnacle of the sport. But let me put two simple points.
1) Should he be at the pinnacle of the sport at this late stage? I do not think so.
2) Is the fact that he is at the pinnacle of the sport at this late stage good for the sport? I do not think so.
Why?
1) There are at least four players better than him right now. The problem like in Tennis, how there are at least 4-6 players able to prevent Djokovic from another Slam is the aura of invincibility and a simultaneous lack of belief in their own abilities. They are ALREADY better than Messi, just as the new generation are ALREADY better than Djokovic. But they are delaying their own ascension.
2) The delay in ascension makes both sports look bad beyond a certain point. It will cheapen the next generation, as incapable of even unseating old men.
Now the reason I say how is this hatorade, is very simple. Am I laying the blame at Messi or Djokovic? The latter which is my FAVOURITE player? NO! I am questioning the next generation's inability to GROW UP.
And the Preamble was actually more important in my argument than even I anticipated. Why? Because we can already see examples (objectively) that in terms of overall ability the Older generation (Messi, Ronaldo), Nadal, Djokovic have ALREADY been surpassed.
The level of consistency that Haaland has today cannot be matched by Messi, and even in the showdown between Mbappe and Messi, I believe that Mbappe came out on top. So, this is not a question of subjectivity or opionions or hatorade. I think they are already better, in fact I think Messi might admit as much. Djokovic ALREADY has.
The problem is they do not fully believe it. This is not a case of a young Neymar trying to leave Messi's shadow. This is more like a son that surpasses his father but refuses to leave the family home.
In history, people will not identify that Haaland, Mbappe, Lewandowski etc. were able to become theoretically better in 2021-2023, all they will see is that the awards did not go their way. It will cheapen their legacy.
So I think for football's sake, it is very important that they step up immediately to take their place. You have to understand where I am coming from. Talent can only take you so far. This is not the time of Bill Russell or Wilt Chamberlain or Pele. This is the time of cutting edge nutrition, power, and pace. No matter how talented a player is, in a truly competitive league, a player (even the GOAT should be falling out of the top 5) by about age 35.
This is my theory, supported by objective facts. Anything else, and one has to question the field, and even the sport itself.
Beyond a certain point, if an old man is still #1, you have to wonder about the sport. So yes I do wonder about the state of Tennis and Football. Lebron James is already out of the top 5. Brady was 14th in 2020! GOAT or no GOAT it makes no difference. A 35 year old man should be unseated in a physically demanding modern sport.
Did you take a whole weekend off to the islands to smoke up and post?
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
It's really not that difficult to understand. In both Tennis and Football, there are already about 4-5 players BETTER than the GOAT. These players are lagging behind their respective GOAT due to mentality not ability. This reflects badly on the next generation as I believe the 'handover' period is long overdue.
This is a very protracted handover period, irrespective of talent. In Tennis especially it is rather sad. In Tennis the argument is not not even one that I have to make, there is irrefutable evidence.
Football players in general are less honest about their gameplay so it is harder to express that, but the argument I believe is parallel.
In fact, the MORE I think of it, the more I believe in the post. So no I am not high.
Dominance in ANY sport has diminishing effects (You can even ignore the long write ups, and try to prove this point wrong). I dare you. A Haaland win would have done more for the sport than a Messi win has. So yes it is unfortunate.
This is a very protracted handover period, irrespective of talent. In Tennis especially it is rather sad. In Tennis the argument is not not even one that I have to make, there is irrefutable evidence.
Football players in general are less honest about their gameplay so it is harder to express that, but the argument I believe is parallel.
In fact, the MORE I think of it, the more I believe in the post. So no I am not high.
Dominance in ANY sport has diminishing effects (You can even ignore the long write ups, and try to prove this point wrong). I dare you. A Haaland win would have done more for the sport than a Messi win has. So yes it is unfortunate.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
It’s all in your head.Tbite wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 5:01 pm It's really not that difficult to understand. In both Tennis and Football, there are already about 4-5 players BETTER than the GOAT. These players are lagging behind their respective GOAT due to mentality not ability. This reflects badly on the next generation as I believe the 'handover' period is long overdue.
This is a very protracted handover period, irrespective of talent. In Tennis especially it is rather sad. In Tennis the argument is not not even one that I have to make, there is irrefutable evidence.
Football players in general are less honest about their gameplay so it is harder to express that, but the argument I believe is parallel.
In fact, the MORE I think of it, the more I believe in the post. So no I am not high.
Dominance in ANY sport has diminishing effects (You can even ignore the long write ups, and try to prove this point wrong). I dare you. A Haaland win would have done more for the sport than a Messi win has. So yes it is unfortunate.
1. Look up the history of the Ballon d'Or and its relation to the game.
2. Are you trying to convince us that player’s main motivation is the Ballon d'Or? That’s ridiculous
3. You conveniently “ignored” other sports like golf, motor racing, basketball, e.t.c...
4. You also ignore the other side of the coin where GOAT presence motivates up and coming players to excel.
5. I could post more points but you get the gist.
…..
BTW, how were the islands?
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
WHY EXACTLY IS THIS THEEAD IN THIS FORUM???? IS THIA ABOUT NIGERIA OR NIGERIAN PLAYERS?????.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
Thanks for being honest. The OP is doing a poor job of hiding the pain and suffering…. “If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
EII This is World Football. Not sure why you are having an aneuryism?
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
Kabalega wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:22 pmIt’s all in your head.Tbite wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 5:01 pm It's really not that difficult to understand. In both Tennis and Football, there are already about 4-5 players BETTER than the GOAT. These players are lagging behind their respective GOAT due to mentality not ability. This reflects badly on the next generation as I believe the 'handover' period is long overdue.
This is a very protracted handover period, irrespective of talent. In Tennis especially it is rather sad. In Tennis the argument is not not even one that I have to make, there is irrefutable evidence.
Football players in general are less honest about their gameplay so it is harder to express that, but the argument I believe is parallel.
In fact, the MORE I think of it, the more I believe in the post. So no I am not high.
Dominance in ANY sport has diminishing effects (You can even ignore the long write ups, and try to prove this point wrong). I dare you. A Haaland win would have done more for the sport than a Messi win has. So yes it is unfortunate.
1. Look up the history of the Ballon d'Or and its relation to the game.
2. Are you trying to convince us that player’s main motivation is the Ballon d'Or? That’s ridiculous
3. You conveniently “ignored” other sports like golf, motor racing, basketball, e.t.c...
4. You also ignore the other side of the coin where GOAT presence motivates up and coming players to excel.
5. I could post more points but you get the gist.
…..
BTW, how were the islands?
My argument is NOT predicated on the player's motivation. This is why we are not getting anywhere. One of the problem's on internet forums is you make an argument, the other person ignores everything you says, and then makes assumptions about what you are trying to say. My post is essentially not even about Messi. It has nothing to do with him. So not sure why you keep saying Bad Belle. I made this very clear.
I am saying the IMPACT of his latest win is unfortunate. I dodn't ignore Basketball, I said that Lebron is no longer at the APEX. Motor racing and especially golf are not as physically demanding as football (a point which I also made).
You will note that I am not shifting any goalposts, because the argument is actually sound. The reason we are not getting anywhwere is because you refuse to address the ACTUAL argument.
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
But what Islands are you talking about sha?
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
See? This post here lists what your post is NOT about, but nothing about your ‘ACTUAL argument.’Tbite wrote: ↑Fri Nov 17, 2023 7:39 amKabalega wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 10:22 pmIt’s all in your head.Tbite wrote: ↑Fri Nov 10, 2023 5:01 pm It's really not that difficult to understand. In both Tennis and Football, there are already about 4-5 players BETTER than the GOAT. These players are lagging behind their respective GOAT due to mentality not ability. This reflects badly on the next generation as I believe the 'handover' period is long overdue.
This is a very protracted handover period, irrespective of talent. In Tennis especially it is rather sad. In Tennis the argument is not not even one that I have to make, there is irrefutable evidence.
Football players in general are less honest about their gameplay so it is harder to express that, but the argument I believe is parallel.
In fact, the MORE I think of it, the more I believe in the post. So no I am not high.
Dominance in ANY sport has diminishing effects (You can even ignore the long write ups, and try to prove this point wrong). I dare you. A Haaland win would have done more for the sport than a Messi win has. So yes it is unfortunate.
1. Look up the history of the Ballon d'Or and its relation to the game.
2. Are you trying to convince us that player’s main motivation is the Ballon d'Or? That’s ridiculous
3. You conveniently “ignored” other sports like golf, motor racing, basketball, e.t.c...
4. You also ignore the other side of the coin where GOAT presence motivates up and coming players to excel.
5. I could post more points but you get the gist.
…..
BTW, how were the islands?
My argument is NOT predicated on the player's motivation. This is why we are not getting anywhere. One of the problem's on internet forums is you make an argument, the other person ignores everything you says, and then makes assumptions about what you are trying to say. My post is essentially not even about Messi. It has nothing to do with him. So not sure why you keep saying Bad Belle. I made this very clear.
I am saying the IMPACT of his latest win is unfortunate. I dodn't ignore Basketball, I said that Lebron is no longer at the APEX. Motor racing and especially golf are not as physically demanding as football (a point which I also made).
You will note that I am not shifting any goalposts, because the argument is actually sound. The reason we are not getting anywhwere is because you refuse to address the ACTUAL argument.
Yet, you complain that people don’t get your arguments.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
I am saying the IMPACT of his latest win is unfortunate. That is not an argument?
Buhari, whose two terms thankfully ground to a constitutional halt in May. (One thing both democracies have going for them is that their leaders, however bad, have only two terms to swing the wrecking ball.) Under Buhari, growth per head also plunged to 0. An economic agenda drawn from the dusty pages of a 1970s protectionist handbook failed to do the trick. Despite Buhari’s promise to tame terrorism and criminality, violence flourished. Despite his reputation for probity, corruption swirled. FT
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
He did not deserve it just like Argentina did not deserve to win the last WC. This whole thing scream setup.
Man is comfortable in His imperfection but uncomfortable in His perfection. Me. (Inspired by Karol Józef Wojtyła - Crossing the Threshold of Hope)
Re: Messi's win isn't good for football.
That is irrelevant because Tbite posted above, that his posts on this thread, are not about Messi.
“If your opponent is of choleric temper, seek to irritate him. Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.”- Sun Tzu