Cybereagles

While I would not go as far as this piece, today, in the Los Angeles Times, it does touch on things that I have always believed. While Europe is dominant in football, there are things that question this dominance especially when conjured in terms of (1) its totality, and (2) its unchangeability. Though, its early days but read on...... the assumed and conjured gap between Europe and the rest is just that "conjured" and far from definitive. The lack of definitiveness in human performance with its flow and ebb, the emergence constantly of young talent, the far from pure scientific distribution of top talents indicate that a definitive claim of superiority is in reality a fluke.

FIFA Club World Cup casting some doubts over European soccer dominance
https://www.latimes.com/sports/soccer/s ... -dominance

By Kevin Baxter
Staff Writer
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June 24, 2025 4 AM PT

Heimo Schirgi’s first big job in soccer was as head of operations for UEFA, the largest and most influential of the global game’s six geographic confederations. Part of that job involved planning and managing the UEFA Champions League, the largest and most influential club soccer competition in the world.

So when Schirgi moved into his current job as FIFA’s chief operating officer for the World Cup, he brought with him the knowledge that the Champions League, for all its prestige and gravitas, also had one weakness: its field was limited to the 55 soccer-playing countries of Europe.

“You have all these club competitions on a confederation, continental level, right?” he said. “But you don’t have it on a global level. You never had clubs from South America competing against European clubs in a serious tournament with high stakes.

“I’m personally interested how the rest of the world’s clubs are going to fare. There’s only one way to find out.”

That one way is the FIFA Club World Cup, which kicked off in the U.S. 10 days ago. And while the tournament has many flaws, it has gone a long way toward answering Schirgi’s curiosity. Europe, it seems, isn’t so dominant after all.

Paris Saint-Germain, the reigning European champion, lost to Botafogo, currently eighth in Brazil’s Serie A. Iconic English club Chelsea was beaten handily by Flamengo, another Brazilian team. Mexico’s Monterrey played Inter Milan, the Champions League runner-up, to a draw. Real Madrid, Europe’s most decorated club, tied Al Hilal, which finished second in the Saudi Pro League.

And Spanish power Atlético Madrid, which made the round of 16 in the Champions League, didn’t even make it out of the group stage.

Those results may still prove to be little more than a stumble on the way to an all-European final four. Or not. And that uncertainty, Schirgi insists, is why the Club World Cup was created.

“Our sport is a sport where underdogs have a genuine chance, right?” he said. “It’s not just the money game. We know that club soccer is at a very high level.”

The real winners through the tournament’s first 34 games have been Latin American teams: Five of the six South American clubs entered Monday unbeaten, as did Mexico’s Monterrey. And if there’s been a big loser, it’s arguably been Major League Soccer, which has shown it’s not ready to play with the big boys.

Although the U.S. league made history when Inter Miami beat Porto 2-1 in a group-stage game, marking the first time an MLS club has beaten a European team in a competitive match, the league’s other two entries — LAFC and the Seattle Sounders — combined for just two goals and were shut out three times in their first five games, all losses.

But if the first Club World Cup has proven to be surprisingly entertaining, even compelling, there have been a few hiccups. Attendance was hurt by several early weekday kickoffs and high admission prices, which forced FIFA to essentially start giving away tickets. The average announced attendance of 36,043 through the first 34 games was matched by nearly as many empty seats.

The weather has also proven difficult with several players complaining about the heat and humidity. It was so bad in Cincinnati last Saturday, Borussia Dortmund’s substitutes watched the first half on TV in the dressing room. And it’s only going to get worse. Temperatures are expected to top 100 degrees on Tuesday in New Jersey, where Porto plays Al Ahly, and an excessive heat warning has been issued in Philadelphia, where Chelsea and Esperance de Tunis meet.

High 90s temperatures are also forecast Tuesday for Nashville, Tenn., and Charlotte, N.C., where afternoon games are scheduled. That, however, will serve as a wake-up call for next summer’s World Cup, which will be played in similar conditions.

Perhaps the most complex problem FIFA faces in attempting to make the Club World Cup a significant quadrennial event, however, is the crowded fixture schedule. The World Cup will expand from 64 to 104 games next summer. Recent years have seen tournaments such as the Nations League added to the international calendar while club competitions including the Champions League, Europa League and Club World Cup expanded.

Others, such as the Leagues Cup, were created out of whole cloth.

As a result some players have played more than 70 matches for club and country in the last year. The fixture schedule has become so packed that the only place left to accommodate a monthlong tournament such as the Club World Cup was the traditional early summer break between one European season and the next.

FIFPRO, the global union representing soccer players, has cited scientific research in its call for a mandatory four-week break each year. FIFA, the Club World Cup organizer, responded by offering a $1 billion prize-money purse to get teams to play through that break.

“With the introduction of the new Champions League format and the new Club World Cup, which extends for over a month, the workload on teams and players has increased significantly,” said Giuseppe Marotta, chairman and chief executive officer of Inter Milan. “However these competitions also represent a huge opportunity in terms of visibility and revenue. For this reasons, they must be safeguarded.

“Adjustments should instead be made to the rest of the calendar to lighten the overall load.”

Marotta suggests shortening league schedules, which means diminishing domestic competitions while giving more power to the likes of FIFA and UEFA. That could be a slippery slope, one that would make the world’s game less local and more global.

But if the Club World Cup follows the trajectory of the Champions League, Schirgi thinks that’s a trade worth making.

“The beginnings of the Champions League, it was not always this huge, great event,” he said. “There is a lot of growth that needs to happen and a lot of education. We are super excited that we are part of history.”

You have read the latest installment of On Soccer with Kevin Baxter. The weekly column takes you behind the scenes and shines a spotlight on unique stories. Listen to Baxter on this week’s episode of the “Corner of the Galaxy” podcast.

As refreshing as it would be to see a final four made up of a rainbow of nations, the likelihood is unlikely. When it comes to the crunch, the comparative advantage of the European sides will see them through. Most likely. The energy and enthusiasm of the Brazilians has been a joy to behold. What’s the motivation? Is it pride in the shirt or the opportunity for advertisement? Some will be cherrypicked and off to Europe by the tournaments close. The master must have his fill.

Coach wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 6:15 am As refreshing as it would be to see a final four made up of a rainbow of nations, the likelihood is unlikely. When it comes to the crunch, the comparative advantage of the European sides will see them through. Most likely. The energy and enthusiasm of the Brazilians has been a joy to behold. What’s the motivation? Is it pride in the shirt or the opportunity for advertisement? Some will be cherrypicked and off to Europe by the tournaments close. The master must have his fill.

I think it’s the latter.
Plus I believe the South Americans feel they have something to prove with all the attention perpetually on European clubs. Just like European clubs are graded over a time frame of a few years based on performance, it’s likely that this WCC will allow for a more accurate rating of clubs on a global scale on a similar basis.

Do the Europeans take this tournament as seriously as the rest?
Time will tell.

Coach wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 6:15 am As refreshing as it would be to see a final four made up of a rainbow of nations, the likelihood is unlikely. When it comes to the crunch, the comparative advantage of the European sides will see them through. Most likely. The energy and enthusiasm of the Brazilians has been a joy to behold. What’s the motivation? Is it pride in the shirt or the opportunity for advertisement? Some will be cherrypicked and off to Europe by the tournaments close. The master must have his fill.

The writer argues from both sides to such an extent he might be danfo driver's lost broda, adept at taking it from both sides...

The competition was created by Infantino to muscle in on UEFAs money making from the CL..If the writer has a curiosity itch, I suggest he watches the Copa Lib.

The writer then creates a straw man and then begins to argue the issue of dominance, with rider after rider that we're back to the danfo driver again! "Sir, how do you want it"? Tutti Frutti ice-cream!!!

The world cup; yes The Mundiale is the decider of deciders. The capo de tuti of all football. Everybody comes with their own, and their best. And when the music starts to sing, ratata, ratata, everybody are dance...

Without prompts, or WWE entrances. From Uzbekistan to Germany, everyone is "carrying". Be it an Uzi or an AK.

All man come to fight!!!

And there is no Duckland from Sidney..

Nor a weaselly Guardiola, or Alonso doing preseason in advance.
Or Enzo Maresca taking furtive glances at that pasta Bolognese slow cooking in the corner, while his players roast in the Philly sun...

Let me say it again.

There is only one Mundial...Nothing else comes close.

^Hilarious. For the European “club owners”, money is on the mind and little else. The players, how bothered are they? Is a space for a Club World Cup Winner badge reserved on the swimming trunks? Nevertheless, it’s a tournament that’s there to be won. Someone will win it. With the prize money on offer, this will grow, it can only grow.

Coach wrote: ↑Wed Jun 25, 2025 3:32 pm ^Hilarious. For the European “club owners”, money is on the mind and little else. The players, how bothered are they? Is a space for a Club World Cup Winner badge reserved on the swimming trunks? Nevertheless, it’s a tournament that’s there to be won. Someone will win it. With the prize money on offer, this will grow, it can only grow.

Depends on what one means by grow. It could grow into a cash cow, with the focus largely on the money, re 2nd round finish or more...

Watch Maresca and Chelsea. Get some pre-season done, earn lots of money in the process....

Important to note that other S. American and CONCACAF teams are not fairing as well.
Coaching and diversity of ideas go along way. I remember the EPL didn’t really improve in quality until the influx of foreigners, players, owners, coaches and trainers.

Remember the days EPL clubs recycled British managers with no serious improvement?
Arsene Wenger’s first impact was to get players off Bangers and marsh breakfast, before Sunday games.


Why are Brazilian clubs doing so well at Club World Cup?
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Summary
All four Brazilian teams in the FIFA Club World Cup have advanced to the last 16, sparking excitement among fans. Their success is attributed to factors like peak fitness, familiarity with the climate, and increased investment in Brazilian football, including foreign coaching. While this performance doesn’t necessarily predict the Brazil national team’s success in the 2026 World Cup, it highlights the strength of South American football.
​
13 minutes ago
Flamengo fans display a Brazil flag during their sides game with Chelsea at the Fifa Club World CupGetty Images
A team from Brazil has won the Fifa Club World Cup on four occasions - but the last time was in 2012
"This Club World Cup is a dream come true for Brazil fans," says South American football expert Tim Vickery, speaking from Rio de Janeiro.

"Every bus stop, every water cooler... everyone is talking about it. It's full-on."

While Britain sleeps, with some games at the newly-expanded tournament in the United States kicking-off at 02:00 BST, Brazil is going wild for it.

And no wonder.

Millions of football fans are glued to television sets following the fortunes of Rio-based teams Botafogo, Flamengo and Fluminense - as well as Palmeiras, who are based in Sao Paulo.

And it is a case of so far, so good.

All four have progressed from their respective groups to the last-16 after some eye-catching results which have left fans asking if a team from Brazil can win the Club World Cup for the first time since 2012?

Botafogo have beaten newly-crowned champions of Europe Paris St-Germain, Flamengo turned a 1-0 deficit into a 3-1 victory over Chelsea, while Fluminense and Palmeiras have held Borussia Dortmund and Porto respectively.

The United States is hosting most of the games at the 2026 World Cup next summer. Canada and Mexico are also co-hosts.

If a team from Brazil wins the Club World Cup, what will that say about the chances of the Brazil national team winning the World Cup for a sixth time?

"I didn't expect that, most people in Brazil didn't expect that," Brazilian sports journalist Renata Mendonca, speaking to BBC World Service Sport, says about all four Brazilian teams advancing.

"The way they want to show the world... the Brazilian teams are good enough and could be at the top of the world.

"This motivates them a lot."

Palmeiras forward Jose Manuel Lopez (centre) celebrates scoring his team's second goal during the Club World Cup match against Al-AhlyGetty Images
Palmeiras finished second in Brazil's top flight in 2024
Why are the Brazilian teams doing well?


Atletico Madrid and Porto have already been sent packing, while both teams from Argentina - Boca Juniors and River Plate - have also been eliminated.

Brazil's quartet, however, march on.

At least one is guaranteed a place in the quarter-finals.

That's because Palmeiras and Botafogo have been drawn against one another in an all-Brazil showdown in Philadelphia on Saturday (17:00 BST kick-off).

Meanwhile, Flamengo face Bayern Munich on Sunday (21:00), while Fluminense meet Inter Milan on Monday (20:00).

"This tournament is a priority in the way an Olympic athlete will do all of his training and programming to peak at a specific time," Vickery tells BBC Sport.

"Certainly for Flamengo and Palmeiras, who really want to win it. This is an absolute priority for them and they have programmed to be at their peak now."

Is the climate, which the Brazilian teams are used to, helping give them an edge?

Both Chelsea boss Enzo Maresca and Manchester City manager Pep Guardiola have mentioned the extreme heat since the tournament started.

Chelsea trained in 37C before their 3-0 group win over ES Tunis in Philadelphia.

"It is almost impossible to train or to make a session because of the weather," said Maresca earlier this week, while Guardiola said before Thursday's match with Juventus that his players must be prepared to "suffer" in the challenging heat of Orlando.

The soaring temperatures across the United States have led to matches across the competition implementing water breaks during games.

But not all players have struggled in the heat.

"We're used to it," Botafogo right-back Vitinho, who spent two years at Burnley, said of the high temperatures. "I hope that it works in our favour."

Another factor to consider is that all four teams from Brazil have broken away from their domestic season, which runs from March until December, to take part.

While they appear fresh and sharp, teams from Europe went into the Club World Cup on the back of long seasons.

PSG's first game against Atletico Madrid in Pasadena on 15 June came 15 days after their 5-0 mauling of Inter Milan in the Champions League final in Munich.

Vickery adds: "A few weeks ago the Flamengo president was saying to a mate of mine 'we're flying in mid-season'.

"For the European clubs... is the end of their season? Is it pre-season? The European clubs, their planning hasn't been to peak now."

Vickery believes there is something else to factor into the conversation about Brazilian clubs doing well.

"There is more money in Brazilian football," he says.

"The standard has risen over the last few seasons. One reason is because of the influx of foreign coaches.

"Of the four Brazilian clubs here - two have Portuguese coaches [Abel Ferreira - Palmeiras and Renato Paiva - Botafogo].

"There's plenty of Portuguese and Argentine coaches in Brazilian football and it's brought more ideas. Even Filipe Luis, the Brazilian coaching Flamengo, his backup staff are all Spanish.

"There's an openness to new ideas that there wasn't a few years ago."

Mendonca adds: "The timing of this competition is very good for South American teams. They are in the middle of their season, they are very well prepared physically.

"They have better conditions now to keep their talented players and even bring back some players. Flamengo, for example, signed Jorginho after leaving Arsenal, while Danilo and Alex Sandro have come from Juventus.

"Also Botafogo, they have kept Igor Jesus for this competition. After this he will go to Nottingham Forest.

"These are aspects that explain why Brazilian teams are performing very well."

Flamengo's Bruno Henrique celebrates scoring against Chelsea at the Club World CupEPA
Flamengo, who beat Chelsea, are the current leaders in Brazil's top flight
Is this a sign for the World Cup?


Tens of thousands of fans have travelled from Brazil to cheer their respective clubs at the Club World Cup.

And they have proved one of the highlights of the tournament so far, with vibrant atmospheres at all of their games.

Brazil have already qualified for next summer's World Cup, but Vickery does not believe the performance of the club teams will have any bearing on how Carlo Ancelotti's side perform next year.

"What the performances of the Brazilian clubs highlight is the strength of national teams like Colombia and Uruguay," he adds.

"Palmeiras, Botafogo, Flamengo and Fluminense...a lot of their best players are not Brazilians.

"The way that European football treats Brazil, Brazilian football now treats the rest of South America. You have got two of the midfielders for Colombia - Richard Rios of Palmeiras and Jhon Arias of Fluminense.

"Gustavo Gomez, a centre-back for Paraguay, plays for Palmeiras and Jefferson Savarino, who plays for Venezuela, made the goal for Botafogo against PSG.

"That's the model - Brazil sells its best players to Europe and one of the ways they replenish them is from neighbouring countries in South America."

Fluminense player Keno celebrates his goal during the Club World Cup match against Ulsan HD Getty Images
Fluminense finished 13th in Brazil's top flight last season
Who are the Brazilian teams?


Flamengo: Brazil's form team going in the tournament, topping this season's domestic league.

They earned their place in the tournament by winning the Copa Liberatodores in 2022, their third triumph.

They stunned Chelsea with a 3-1 win to finish top of their group unbeaten.

Fluminense: It has been a rollercoaster few years for Fluminense, having won the Copa Libertadores in 2023 for the first time.

They followed that up by almost being relegated from Brazil's top flight last season - just avoiding the embarrassment of being in the Club World Cup and the country's second tier.

This season they are sixth after 11 games and are captained by former Chelsea defender Thiago Silva. They also have the oldest player in the tournament, 44-year-old goalkeeper Fabio.

Botafogo's players celebrate with their fans after scoring against Paris St-Germain at the Club World CupReuters
Botafogo enjoyed a remarkable 2024 winning both Brazil's top flight and the Copa Libertadores
Palmeiras: One of South America's most popular club, they are no stranger to success during their 115-year history.

They have won 57 trophies, including three Copa Libertadores - the South American equivalent of the Champions League. They were the champions of Brazil most recently in 2023.

Their star player is 18-year-old forward Estevao, who will be joining Chelsea after the tournament, having previously sold Endrick to Real Madrid.

Botafogo: The big surprise team in the tournament so far after beating European champions PSG to win their group.

They dominated South America in 2024, winning both the Copa Libertadores and the Brazilian championship. This season has been a struggle though after the departure of key players.

Their rise, under the ownership of John Textor, has been remarkable going from debt ridden to top of the South American game.

Striker Igor Jesus remains though and is widely expected to join Nottingham Forest at the end of the tournament.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/arti ... 0nl25p55qo

EII, this is more of European teams dominating club Soccer due to players and money,
mostly sourced from outside the continent. If you eliminate those two sources, I doubt if
Europe can be as dominant in the sport.

joao wrote: ↑Fri Jun 27, 2025 5:49 pm EII, this is more of European teams dominating club Soccer due to players and money,
mostly sourced from outside the continent. If you eliminate those two sources, I doubt if
Europe can be as dominant in the sport.

The only real measure of dominance is the Mundial.

The writer maybe one of Infantino's mouth pieces...

If Madrid were to win it for instance, how would you determine dominance? Would Vini Jr's contributions count in favor of European dominance or be discounted?