Why do most Eaglets not go on to big things in the game?

[Waffiman]

This is a very interesting piece and study on the Ghananian World Youth Champions has prompted my analysis. The same can be said about us too but more of our boys went on to big things than this Ghanain side.

http://www.taglicht-media.de/e_produkti ... arlets.htm

Black Starlets. How to survive a broken dream

A film by Christoph Weber

Once upon a time there was a dream team, eleven Ghanaian youths, children almost, who won a football World Cup title for the first time for the African Continent. Overnight, the junior world champions became national heroes. Street celebrations in their home country continued for weeks. Ghana went wild.

Not long after, FIFA produced a teaching video showing the tactics of Africa's junior world champions: "Football from another planet". A new golden age had dawned. All the Starlet play-ers transferred to Europe. One star outshone the rest: Nii Lamptey. His rise was meteoric. He was compared with Pelé and considered the most promising up-and-coming international star.

Thirteen years later. The former teenage prodigies have reached football prime. But only one of them has actually become an international star: Sammy Kuffour, defender with Bayern München. What happened to the rest, the most promising talent in international football? We set out in search of the players. Most of all, we want to track down Nii Lamptey – "Africa's Pelé".

Starting with Sammy Kuffour, the film documents the difficult search for Nii Lamptey. He has become if not the best then one of the world's most travelled football professionals. He has played on almost every continent and changed clubs constantly. On our search, we meet other members of the former dream team. They all tell us their version of Lamptey's story, revealing much of their own lives in the process.

We also become acquainted with all the other aspects of a great dream: the rise and fall, shat-tered illusions, last opportunities, new glimmers of hope. We see how people bounce back again, find new dreams and therefore survive. People from Africa, that long-suffering of Continents, who would be unable to survive without this ability to rise up again…


Coproduction of taglicht media, Zuidenwind Filmprodukties, pale blue productions, WDR, ARTE
Supported by the RTR-Foundation Austria

To be shot in 2005

[Waffiman]

I am not too bothered with the Ghana team but you can argue it is the same with all youth teams. In fact, there are more players that went onto play for the SE who never made an Eaglets appearance than those who did. For us it seems that playing for the Eaglets is a receipe for killing your SE dream. Why?

Here is my view on why most of our Eaglets have not gone onto greater things in the game.

I know some of here will say the reason why most of these players did not go onto big things was because of their fake ages. I agree and disagree.

The age factor ignores a few other factors including age itself.

In fairness, it is not all about age fixing, there is also age ignorance. When you are born with no clear proof of age because it was not recorded officially, a document like a birth certificate simply does not exist for a lot of players in many places. This obviously leaves room for guess work simply because the player does not know his real age. IMHO, such guess work also contributes to the issue of wrong ages in most African players. It is wrong to presume that all ages are fixed delibrately by the players.

You also cannot blame the players if your dream is a five-year contract, even if it is some rubbish club in somewhere like Russia, Belgium etc. The fact of life is you are much likely to get a long-term deal if you are 18 than if you are 28. I must add, I am not trying to justify age cheating but the temptation is there and with the potential financial rewards being so high, it is inevitable that some players will fix their ages.

However, can we really attribute these players not going onto the big things on age only. From my experience I am not sure the film story planned above will demonstrate the age-fiddling as some of us here will presume went on. There are many instances of talented players not making it, and many of talented youth teams not producing any real class players.

One thing about youth tournaments that causes this mismatch between expectations and reality is that a team of well-organised but average players can excel at youth level, especially if equipped with a couple of very good players.

For example, I have seen Arsenal youth teams win back-to-back FA youth cups etc. without actually producing top first team players. In fact, this is actually the norm rather than the exception. It is also possible for one exceptional player to carry his team at youth level which can also be the case at senior level, but far less amplified. IMHO, winning trophies at Youth level is actually a very poor indicator of the quality of the individual players.

For example, the Scholes, Beckham, Butt, Nevilles Manure youth team lost to Leeds in the FA youth cup final? Amazing that so many Manure players went on to have big careers but very few of that Leeds side did. The Arsenal Youth team that won two FA youth Cup back to back only have one player left at Arsenal that might do something at the top - Jeremie Aliadierre.

The moral of the story I guess is that winning Youth competitions at World Championship and Domestic level is no guarantee of youngsters going on to acheive great things in the game. The Arsenal's Tony Adams, Rocastle, Thomas, Merson, and the Manure Beckham, Scoles, Nevilles, Butt, Giggs era was the exception and not the rule.

Arsenal currently have a fantastic crop of youngsters and it will be very interesting to see how many go on to become worldclass players. Fabregas and Clichy already look destined for the very top, Senderos looks like he could join them whilst the likes of Flamini, RVP, Hoyte, Quincy, Lupoli, Djourou etc are very promising but it is probably a little too early to predict just how good they will become.

Naija has Taiye Taiwo, Martins, Makinwa, Paul Obikwelu, etc. but it will be interesting to see where they will be in 5 years time. Remember Justice was voted 2nd best Africa's Youth players in the Africa youth tournament a few years ago. BTW! What happened to that team's players? What happened to the players who took part in the World Youth Championship held in Naija?

Football, it is a humbling game. One thing is certain, none of us are experts even if we claim to be. What you will get is, there are far more failures than successes, it is the norm in the game. Let us hope we continue to show up top young players with or without Youth Championship because Youth Championships are very poor guide to the future stars of our SE.

[oloye]

I could not have put it better my Bro. I recollect one of the scouts at the 93 youth championship, express his suprise that it was Babayaro who went on to greater things in life, contrary to Mobi whom he thought was destined for great things in life.
The prospect that Pele saw in Opara during Scotland 89 as far as i am concerned did not materialised.

Many things go to determine what the future holds. There is this Brazilian kid that is being touted as the next wonder of the football world, i am afraid it may not turn out to be so, the kind of exposure and expectations he is being subjected to at this age is enough to ensure that.

[marko]

well ask grand papa osundu-our famous under 17 ha ha ha

[quickie]

Waffi,

Very good post compared to all the yama-yama- we've been subjected to in the last 3 days.

Most of your points are spot on (although you're being very lenient on the age issue, how can a man chop his age by 10 because he doesn't know when he was born? Haba...na him be say, him dey wear pampers for 10 years old? )

The issues in africa regarding these young players is a bit different from the issues with europeans and south americans.

People will look at the Yugoslav team of Chile 87, Portuguese team of riyadh 89, even spanish team of Nigeria 99 and wonder why their african counterparts never progress as such.

IMO, it's not just age...

- LUCK plays a part. For a 19 yr old african to move to the next stage after appearing in a WYC, he needs to move abroad. If he falls into wrong uncaring hands, that young career might just be coming to an end quick time.A club or coach that buys the african kids to nurture will benefit more than one that thinks the kid is gonna win him the league on the cheap.

- Foreign lands don't help the situ much. Most of the euro and Sth american kids stay in their countries (or neighbouring countries) till early early 20s. It a huge shock to an african kid coming into europe. Most of the guys on this forum would have sad memories of europe or North America if they arrived at teen ages.Not easy to cope at all.


- Attitude of these young kids come into play. teenage boys will always be teenage boys, this is when they really need good people around them to talk to them...and our boys are at a disadvantage here, because they're far from home. Imagine if Rooney was based in Italy or germany...he'd self destruct quicker than if in England.

- Mentality of the african fans too is wrong regarding these WYCs. An age group tourno is an age group tourno, we need to get a grip. We lay too much importance on these comps, hence all the FAs and players chopping decades off ages to win at all cost.

- Culture sef doesnt help...small kid goes to Europe aged 18, comes to lagos next Xmas and old men with 4 pikins for house dey kiss him privates. Why won't he think he's a made man?

The long and short of it is that the african youth has many more obstacles to encounter in reaching greatness than his euro or sth american counterpart.

Q

[Waffiman]

I could not have put it better my Bro. I recollect one of the scouts at the 93 youth championship, express his suprise that it was Babayaro who went on to greater things in life, contrary to Mobi whom he thought was destined for great things in life.
The prospect that Pele saw in Opara during Scotland 89 as far as i am concerned did not materialised.

Many things go to determine what the future holds. There is this Brazilian kid that is being touted as the next wonder of the football world, i am afraid it may not turn out to be so, the kind of exposure and expectations he is being subjected to at this age is enough to ensure that.

My bro, how many of those talented young guys wey you play with go onto to great things? You know from first hand experience as things be for football.

[Waffiman]

Waffi,

Very good post compared to all the yama-yama- we've been subjected to in the last 3 days.

Most of your points are spot on (although you're being very lenient on the age issue, how can a man chop his age by 10 because he doesn't know when he was born? Haba...na him be say, him dey wear pampers for 10 years old? )

The issues in africa regarding these young players is a bit different from the issues with europeans and south americans.

People will look at the Yugoslav team of Chile 87, Portuguese team of riyadh 89, even spanish team of Nigeria 99 and wonder why their african counterparts never progress as such.

IMO, it's not just age...

- LUCK plays a part. For a 19 yr old african to move to the next stage after appearing in a WYC, he needs to move abroad. If he falls into wrong uncaring hands, that young career might just be coming to an end quick time.A club or coach that buys the african kids to nurture will benefit more than one that thinks the kid is gonna win him the league on the cheap.

- Foreign lands don't help the situ much. Most of the euro and Sth american kids stay in their countries (or neighbouring countries) till early early 20s. It a huge shock to an african kid coming into europe. Most of the guys on this forum would have sad memories of europe or North America if they arrived at teen ages.Not easy to cope at all.


- Attitude of these young kids come into play. teenage boys will always be teenage boys, this is when they really need good people around them to talk to them...and our boys are at a disadvantage here, because they're far from home. Imagine if Rooney was based in Italy or germany...he'd self destruct quicker than if in England.

- Mentality of the african fans too is wrong regarding these WYCs. An age group tourno is an age group tourno, we need to get a grip. We lay too much importance on these comps, hence all the FAs and players chopping decades off ages to win at all cost.

- Culture sef doesnt help...small kid goes to Europe aged 18, comes to lagos next Xmas and old men with 4 pikins for house dey kiss him privates. Why won't he think he's a made man?

The long and short of it is that the african youth has many more obstacles to encounter in reaching greatness than his euro or sth american counterpart.

Q

Thanks for the points my bro. But the age issue though relevant is actually not as important as the emphasis we have placed on it on this forum for example.

If age was that important, why those Arsenal Youth team winning sides nor even produce one good players for the senior team. Remember the star of the team - David Noble. Na Confrence he dey play today.

Look Naija Eaglets na the same thing too. Wetin happen to Justice?

[Ayo Akinfe]

Quickie, you failed to add the "Nigerian age factor" to your list of reasons. This football age our players use has not been helpful as it has resulted in many of them burning out as soon as they get on to their first rung on the ladder.

[Waffiman]

Quickie, you failed to add the "Nigerian age factor" to your list of reasons. This football age our players use has not been helpful as it has resulted in many of them burning out as soon as they get on to their first rung on the ladder.

Ayo, is the Age factor really as important as you make it out to be? I do not think so. I think we over play the Age issue. IMHO, the odds for young Nigerian/African players going on to bigs things is far higher than the Europeans, yet it is arguable that the success rate of the European youth players is marginally better than that of the Africans.

[quickie]

Quickie, you failed to add the "Nigerian age factor" to your list of reasons. This football age our players use has not been helpful as it has resulted in many of them burning out as soon as they get on to their first rung on the ladder.

Ayo,
I agree that "Nigerian/african age issue" is a problem...but it isn't the only problem. If you look at some euro countries that have done well in WYCs in the past, some of their players too fell flat on their faces and are nowhere to be found.

As per age, from day one I was never into these U-16s. I grew up within walking distance of Fatai Atere's house and used to c him before the U-16 WC. I was just U-16 myself, let alone Atere wey be say dem no born us well to call by him name for area. When dem bring cup come home, there was a bitter taste because i no say e dey iffy.

PS - Atere was even one of the youngest in that team

Q

[Waffiman]

Quickie, you failed to add the "Nigerian age factor" to your list of reasons. This football age our players use has not been helpful as it has resulted in many of them burning out as soon as they get on to their first rung on the ladder.

Ayo,
I agree that "Nigerian/african age issue" is a problem...but it isn't the only problem. If you look at some euro countries that have done well in WYCs in the past, some of their players too fell flat on their faces and are nowhere to be found.

As per age, from day one I was never into these U-16s. I grew up within walking distance of Fatai Atere's house and used to c him before the U-16 WC. I was just U-16 myself, let alone Atere wey be say dem no born us well to call by him name for area. When dem bring cup come home, there was a bitter taste because i no say e dey iffy.

PS - Atere was even one of the youngest in that team

Q

[Ayo Akinfe]

Quickie, you failed to add the "Nigerian age factor" to your list of reasons. This football age our players use has not been helpful as it has resulted in many of them burning out as soon as they get on to their first rung on the ladder.

Ayo, is the Age factor really as important as you make it out to be? I do not think so. I think we over play the Age issue. IMHO, the odds for young Nigerian/African players going on to bigs things is far higher than the Europeans, yet it is arguable that the success rate of the European youth players is marginally better than that of the Africans.

Waffi, when you have 25-year olds playing in U-17 tournaments, I think it is a very serious issue. You don hia Atere story, if I knack you Sam Elijah own you go pick race!

[oloye]

Ayo
Are you saying Sam Elijah played u-17, because there is no record that says he did. For all i know he played u-21 in 1989 and for someone who left secondary school in 1985(was in the Sardauna secondary school that won the World school FC) i dont see any eyebrows to raise here. May be you meant another Sam Elijah, but there is only one Elijah who played football in Naija. So please nack us something about Elijah.

[Ayo Akinfe]

Ayo
Are you saying Sam Elijah played u-17, because there is no record that says he did. For all i know he played u-21 in 1989 and for someone who left secondary school in 1985(was in the Sardauna secondary school that won the World school FC) i dont see any eyebrows to raise here. May be you meant another Sam Elijah, but there is only one Elijah who played football in Naija. So please nack us something about Elijah.

Sam Elijah played for the Flying Eagles in 1989. You are right, he played for Sardauna Memorial College Kaduna that won the world svchool championship in 1984.

I know Sam from my Kaduna days. Do you know that in Kakuri, Sam Elijah, Ayo Ogunlana and Rashidi Yekini all used to train on the same pitch?

I no wan put sand sand for anybodi gari so I will leave it hear for now. Anyway, you were very close to the action yourself, so you know what I am talking about.

[oloye]

I have read this issue of age or no age for sometime, yes may be Waffi was being lenient with the age issue, to say we dont have age cheats will be trying to sweep everything under the carpet. At the same time to say age is the sole reason why the eaglets dont make it to SE will also be commiting an error of settling only for the point that tickles our fancy.
Waffi i believe took his time to buttress his points past limiting it to age alone, but since we like to flog this issue, we have omitted the rest of the points raised using the opportunity to jaw jaw on our most beloved topic on this forum

Even Brazil wa suspended for fielding over-aged players , does that mean i support fielding over age players, hell no, but what i am against is making this particular offence a sticky when it comes to Naija football. Any system that does not have checks will be abused, the whole reason why we have checks is because of abuses. If dem mama no know the date wey don born them , wetin be their own fault. Abegi make we move on shuo.

[Jinn]

please...in the case of naija (and ghana too) na age...pure and simple...the age tourneys r usually the most convenient platform for young african players to catch the eye of scouts...i mean...it was only recently that scouts actually started watching our league games...and of course u know the goal is to play professional in europe.

4 other countries in south america and europe it's competition...fact is the very best young players grow up too fast and are either not interested in youth competition (who wants 2 play with kids when u r playing with the big boys?) or simply will not be allowed by their clubs 2 participate (due to their tight schedule)...ppl like maradona were the exception rather than the rule...

u can have a clear picture of how hard the competition is in brazil 4 instance where a certain silva giovani...winner of the golden boot and golden ball (he was also the captain and they won the tournament!) in the '83 U-20 tourney never broke into the senior squad...while he was busy @ the tournament, some other kids were busy working hard to get into the senior team...of all the successful brazilian U-20 squad 2 the '83 tournament, only BEBETO broke into the senior team...and it took him close 2 a decade!

[Waffiman]

Ayo
Are you saying Sam Elijah played u-17, because there is no record that says he did. For all i know he played u-21 in 1989 and for someone who left secondary school in 1985(was in the Sardauna secondary school that won the World school FC) i dont see any eyebrows to raise here. May be you meant another Sam Elijah, but there is only one Elijah who played football in Naija. So please nack us something about Elijah.

Sam Elijah played for the Flying Eagles in 1989. You are right, he played for Sardauna Memorial College Kaduna that won the world svchool championship in 1984.

I know Sam from my Kaduna days. Do you know that in Kakuri, Sam Elijah, Ayo Ogunlana and Rashidi Yekini all used to train on the same pitch?

I no wan put sand sand for anybodi gari so I will leave it hear for now. Anyway, you were very close to the action yourself, so you know what I am talking about.

Now Ayo, how can say for sure if Sam case was not one of Age ignorance?

Besides, we do not have conclusive evidence and hear-say usually creates more problems in this matter.

[Waffiman]

I have read this issue of age or no age for sometime, yes may be Waffi was being lenient with the age issue, to say we dont have age cheats will be trying to sweep everything under the carpet. At the same time to say age is the sole reason why the eaglets dont make it to SE will also be commiting an error of settling only for the point that tickles our fancy.
Waffi i believe took his time to buttress his points past limiting it to age alone, but since we like to flog this issue, we have omitted the rest of the points raised using the opportunity to jaw jaw on our most beloved topic on this forum

Even Brazil wa suspended for fielding over-aged players , does that mean i support fielding over age players, hell no, but what i am against is making this particular offence a sticky when it comes to Naija football. Any system that does not have checks will be abused, the whole reason why we have checks is because of abuses. If dem mama no know the date wey don born them , wetin be their own fault. Abegi make we move on shuo.

My bro, see as Ayo especially wan use the age matter as the sole cause of all our problems. See as Jinn just make am the be all and end forgetting all other relevant points.

[Jinn]

My bro, see as Ayo especially wan use the age matter as the sole cause of all our problems. See as Jinn just make am the be all and end forgetting all other relevant points.

what other relevant points r there?

a guy is 29 and he claims 2 be 17...he shines @ the tournament...is signed by a club hoping he "develops"...is this not the problem?

like i said, in europe or south america, the stars of youth competitions may not make it 2 the big stages because of competition...but with africa...come on...the youth stage IS a big stage in itself...it allows u 2 easily make it 2 a club in europe.

[Toxicarrow]

Ayo
Are you saying Sam Elijah played u-17, because there is no record that says he did. For all i know he played u-21 in 1989 and for someone who left secondary school in 1985(was in the Sardauna secondary school that won the World school FC) i dont see any eyebrows to raise here. May be you meant another Sam Elijah, but there is only one Elijah who played football in Naija. So please nack us something about Elijah.

Sam Elijah played for the Flying Eagles in 1989. You are right, he played for Sardauna Memorial College Kaduna that won the world svchool championship in 1984.

I know Sam from my Kaduna days. Do you know that in Kakuri, Sam Elijah, Ayo Ogunlana and Rashidi Yekini all used to train on the same pitch?

I no wan put sand sand for anybodi gari so I will leave it hear for now. Anyway, you were very close to the action yourself, so you know what I am talking about.

Now Ayo, how can say for sure if Sam case was not one of Age ignorance?

Besides, we do not have conclusive evidence and hear-say usually creates more problems in this matter.

How can you say that the case of Sam is an age ignorance when Rasheed Yekini who never studied beyond primary 3 knows his age?

That being said, most parts of nation of Nigeria is not that backward in 70s (and 60s) that people would know that the age of their children or date of birth of their children.

By the virtue of attending secondary school at Agege and also studying at UI, I happen to know many ex-internationals (juniors) and national team players. For instance, the same Chidi Ordiah that you guys are screaming about has been in the national soccer scene since 1991/1992. For your information, he was one of many guys that played and trained at Agege Stadium with teams such as Concord FC, NIgerdock, Nigerlox, LSDPC , Vitalo and First Bank. 'The young Ordiah of the present days' started his foreign trials way back in 1993/1994.

[Ayo Akinfe]

My bro, see as Ayo especially wan use the age matter as the sole cause of all our problems. See as Jinn just make am the be all and end forgetting all other relevant points.

what other relevant points r there?

a guy is 29 and he claims 2 be 17...he shines @ the tournament...is signed by a club hoping he "develops"...is this not the problem?

like i said, in europe or south america, the stars of youth competitions may not make it 2 the big stages because of competition...but with africa...come on...the youth stage IS a big stage in itself...it allows u 2 easily make it 2 a club in europe.

Waffi, it is our biggest problem! You see some of these players signed and then X-rayed and it is found out that this 16-year old is indeed 28. Once that happens, the club loses interest, he is left on the bench and hios career effectively ends.

[Orion]

please...in the case of naija (and ghana too) na age...pure and simple...the age tourneys r usually the most convenient platform for young african players to catch the eye of scouts...i mean...it was only recently that scouts actually started watching our league games...and of course u know the goal is to play professional in europe.

4 other countries in south america and europe it's competition...fact is the very best young players grow up too fast and are either not interested in youth competition (who wants 2 play with kids when u r playing with the big boys?) or simply will not be allowed by their clubs 2 participate (due to their tight schedule)...ppl like maradona were the exception rather than the rule...

u can have a clear picture of how hard the competition is in brazil 4 instance where a certain silva giovani...winner of the golden boot and golden ball (he was also the captain and they won the tournament!) in the '83 U-20 tourney never broke into the senior squad...while he was busy @ the tournament, some other kids were busy working hard to get into the senior team...of all the successful brazilian U-20 squad 2 the '83 tournament, only BEBETO broke into the senior team...and it took him close 2 a decade!

I don't know why you make this discrimination. Players develop at different ages. Some players who were good but too frail or too short at 16 could suddenly have a growth burst at around 18 - 21 and overtake the guys who were better than them at 16. Some just get more serious with the game as they get older. Some hit a skill ceiling at about 15 and just don't better skill wise. Some don't grow any bigger or stronger. There are so many reasons.


Of all the German U17 players that played against Nigeria in the 1985 final not a single one of them made it to the German senior team. I don't think one of them even made it the German U21 team 2 yrs later. At least we had Ugbade who progressed all the way to SE. I remember once, the German coach (I think in WC 1994) was asked why he was using the old players and he complained that none of the players progressed from the U21 team. If age cheating is a factor here then it must be minimal because the European countries that don't age cheat have the SAME pattern as us.

[Waffiman]

Ayo
Are you saying Sam Elijah played u-17, because there is no record that says he did. For all i know he played u-21 in 1989 and for someone who left secondary school in 1985(was in the Sardauna secondary school that won the World school FC) i dont see any eyebrows to raise here. May be you meant another Sam Elijah, but there is only one Elijah who played football in Naija. So please nack us something about Elijah.

Sam Elijah played for the Flying Eagles in 1989. You are right, he played for Sardauna Memorial College Kaduna that won the world svchool championship in 1984.

I know Sam from my Kaduna days. Do you know that in Kakuri, Sam Elijah, Ayo Ogunlana and Rashidi Yekini all used to train on the same pitch?

I no wan put sand sand for anybodi gari so I will leave it hear for now. Anyway, you were very close to the action yourself, so you know what I am talking about.

Now Ayo, how can say for sure if Sam case was not one of Age ignorance?

Besides, we do not have conclusive evidence and hear-say usually creates more problems in this matter.

How can you say that the case of Sam is an age ignorance when Rasheed Yekini who never studied beyond primary 3 knows his age?

That being said, most parts of nation of Nigeria is not that backward in 70s (and 60s) that people would know that the age of their children or date of birth of their children.

By the virtue of attending secondary school at Agege and also studying at UI, I happen to know many ex-internationals (juniors) and national team players. For instance, the same Chidi Ordiah that you guys are screaming about has been in the national soccer scene since 1991/1992. For your information, he was one of many guys that played and trained at Agege Stadium with teams such as Concord FC, NIgerdock, Nigerlox, LSDPC , Vitalo and First Bank. 'The young Ordiah of the present days' started his foreign trials way back in 1993/1994.

Na becos Ordiah nor play for 3Sc you dey come here come put question marks for him age? Stop dat nonsense oh. :x :x :x :x
What about those 3Sc players? Why una remove their profile from the website?

Abeg stop this kain Bad Bellus.