Big Six sign up for new European Super League

[txj]

I would also like to think the increase in value of these EPL clubs is across the board with slight differences here and there, but nothing unique to Liverpool.

Above is what you wrote.

How anyone can think they are telling anybody something that remotely makes sense beats me...

Just read up on Forbes valuation of clubs and come back and tell me how your statement above makes any sense...

What it is, commercial revenues of many EPL clubs especially the big 6 that almost joined super league, their commercial revenues have been on the increase since around 2006, it has been an upward trend generally with a few dips here and there, but generally upwards, and this usually goes along with the forbes valuations, those valuations tied with commercial revenues and good broadcasting deals, as some have alresdy posted
That's what i was saying, even Manchester United was going to increase in valuation with or without the Glazers, and that's why the Glazers dived in to buy it in the first place. That's the general point being made, and a good reason why even Arsenal fans are unhappy with the Kroenkes.....

That is actually incorrect...

The movement of a club's value is a direct product of the efficiency and success of its management. And absolutely NOTHING is guaranteed.

Where you peeps get this notion that a club's value was ALWAYS going to increase is beyond me. There is no factual basis for it.

How many of the clubs that receive PL TV broadcast payments are successful? The reality is that most football clubs are not profitable, year over year...

[cic old boy]

That is actually incorrect...

The movement of a club's value is a direct product of the efficiency and success of its management. And absolutely NOTHING is guaranteed.

Where you peeps get this notion that a club's value was ALWAYS going to increase is beyond me. There is no factual basis for it.

How many of the clubs that receive PL TV broadcast payments are successful? The reality is that most football clubs are not profitable, year over year...

The valuation of ALL EPL clubs has gone up year on year due mainly to TV revenue.

Valuation and profitability are 2 different things. Profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc.

[Kabalega]

In the early 1990s, English First Division clubs believed that a radical restructuring of football was needed if they and the game in general were to develop and flourish.

So on 17 July 1991, they signed the Founder Members Agreement, establishing the basic principles for the setting up of the Premier League.

The League would have commercial independence from the Football League and The FA, leaving it free to organise its own broadcast and sponsorship agreement.

On 20 February 1992, the 22 First Division clubs resigned from the Football League en masse and three months later, on 27 May, the Premier League was established as a limited company.

The first television deal was struck with pay-TV broadcaster BSkyB, a radical move at the time, but Sky has been ever-present and has played a key role in developing the League to its present levels.

The inaugural Premier League campaign started on Saturday 15 August, 1992, with 22 clubs.

The 22 inaugural members of the new Premier League were Arsenal, Aston Villa, Blackburn Rovers, Chelsea, Coventry City, Crystal Palace, Everton, Ipswich Town, Leeds United, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United, Middlesbrough, Norwich City, Nottingham Forest, Oldham Athletic, Queens Park Rangers, Sheffield United, Sheffield Wednesday, Southampton, Tottenham Hotspur, and Wimbledon.

Of these, six clubs have been ever-present in the Premier League: Arsenal, Chelsea, Everton, Liverpool, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur.

When the Premier League was formed, there was always the intention to reduce the number of clubs to 20 to promote development and excellence at club and international level. This was achieved at the end of the 1994/95 season when four clubs were relegated and just two promoted.

© PREMIER LEAGUE 2021 Modern Slavery Statement Equality, Diversity and Inclusion Standard Terms
https://www.premierleague.com/history/origins

[txj]

That is actually incorrect...

The movement of a club's value is a direct product of the efficiency and success of its management. And absolutely NOTHING is guaranteed.

Where you peeps get this notion that a club's value was ALWAYS going to increase is beyond me. There is no factual basis for it.

How many of the clubs that receive PL TV broadcast payments are successful? The reality is that most football clubs are not profitable, year over year...

The valuation of ALL EPL clubs has gone up year on year due mainly to TV revenue.

Valuation and profitability are 2 different things. Profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc.

The first statement above is wrong. In 2020 for instance, the price of football reports that the median value of PL clubs actually fell.
TV revenue is but ONE revenue stream. There are multiple others depending on the management ability of the club.

Valuation and profitability may be different metrics, but they impact each other, with value generally increasing with increasing profits.

Yes profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc. They are also affected by increased commercial revenue, which is the driving force behind LFC's increasing value...

[cic old boy]

The first statement above is wrong. In 2020 for instance, the price of football reports that the median value of PL clubs actually fell.
TV revenue is but ONE revenue stream. There are multiple others depending on the management ability of the club.

Valuation and profitability may be different metrics, but they impact each other, with value generally increasing with increasing profits.

Yes profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc. They are also affected by increased commercial revenue, which is the driving force behind LFC's increasing value...

In 2020, clubs had to deal with coro for 9 months.

The driving force for high valuations is ever rising TV deals.

Valuations tend to drop on the final years of TV deals and rise again when a new deal is agreed.

Profits for clubs (and it is just a handful that are making profits) are relatively small b/c of the factors I mentioned earlier.

[txj]

The first statement above is wrong. In 2020 for instance, the price of football reports that the median value of PL clubs actually fell.
TV revenue is but ONE revenue stream. There are multiple others depending on the management ability of the club.

Valuation and profitability may be different metrics, but they impact each other, with value generally increasing with increasing profits.

Yes profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc. They are also affected by increased commercial revenue, which is the driving force behind LFC's increasing value...

In 2020, clubs had to deal with coro for 9 months.

The driving force for high valuations is ever rising TV deals.

Valuations tend to drop on the final years of TV deals and rise again when a new deal is agreed.

Profits for clubs (and it is just a handful that are making profits) are relatively small b/c of the factors I mentioned earlier.

Those are for the accounting period prior to covid.
]The figures do not take into account the impact of COVID-19, which, based on falls in share prices for those clubs who are quoted on stock exchanges, would reduce values presently by 25-35%]

Valuations drop in the final year of TV deals but only for clubs whose revenue streams are primarily from such deals. It doesn't drop for all teams.

LFC's value has gone up steadily.

Its ultimately a function of management ability. That's why its misleading to say, "the value would've gone up anyways"...

It doesn't work like that.

As you stated, only a handful of clubs are making profit. That is because football leaves a lot of value on the table. The NFL which is largely US-based makes multiples of what football, a global game, with a global audience makes.

That is precisely why FSG is looking at the SL idea....

[cic old boy]

Those are for the accounting period prior to covid.
]The figures do not take into account the impact of COVID-19, which, based on falls in share prices for those clubs who are quoted on stock exchanges, would reduce values presently by 25-35%]

Valuations drop in the final year of TV deals but only for clubs whose revenue streams are primarily from such deals. It doesn't drop for all teams.

LFC's value has gone up steadily.

Its ultimately a function of management ability. That's why its misleading to say, "the value would've gone up anyways"...

It doesn't work like that.

As you stated, only a handful of clubs are making profit. That is because football leaves a lot of value on the table. The NFL which is largely US-based makes multiples of what football, a global game, with a global audience makes.

That is precisely why FSG is looking at the SL idea....

What was the accounting period? You said 2020.

The biggest revenue stream for all EPL clubs is TV money. TV money has gone up since the EPL was formed. Valuations have followed suit.

The reason NFL teams make profit has a lot to do with the absence of relegation, equal sharing of TV money, the college draft system - poor teams get first pick, salary cap/minimal expenditure on transfer fees/agent commissions, etc.

Liverpool's relative financial success is also linked to success on the pitch - CL finals appearances = more TV money. The attraction of the ESL to greedy owners is the the absence of relegation - something that is threatened by Liverpool's current league position.

[cic old boy]

Super League trio face sanctions after nine clubs sign UEFA deal

UEFA starts disciplinary proceedings against Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona over breakaway competition row.


7 May 2021
The three teams that remain involved in the breakaway Super League operation, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus, face sanctions from UEFA, which has reached an agreement with the nine other clubs.

European football’s governing body said on Friday the nine clubs who backed out of the plan had signed a “Club Commitment Declaration” including a series of “reintegration” steps.

The six English Premier League clubs – Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur – along with Italy’s AC Milan and Inter Milan, and Spain’s Atletico Madrid, all signed the agreement, UEFA said in a statement.

“These clubs recognised their mistakes quickly and have taken action to demonstrate their contrition and future commitment to European football,” said UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin.

“The same cannot be said for the clubs that remain involved in the so-called ‘Super League’ and UEFA will deal with those clubs subsequently,” he added.


“UEFA has reserved all rights to take whatever action it deems appropriate against those clubs that have so far refused to renounce the so-called ‘Super League’. The matter will promptly be referred to the competent UEFA disciplinary bodies.”

‘A gesture of goodwill’
The nine clubs back in the UEFA fold have agreed to “take all steps within their power” to end their involvement in the Super League company.

“As a gesture of goodwill, and together with the other clubs, will make a donation totalling an aggregate of 15 million euros ($18.23m), to be used for the benefit of children, youth and grassroots football in local communities across Europe, including the UK,” said UEFA.

The clubs also agreed to a five percent withholding of any revenues they would receive from Champions League or Europa League involvement for one season.

The deal involved the clubs accepting they would face a 100 million euro ($121.5m) fine if they seek to play in an unauthorised competition or a 50 million euro ($60.7m) fine if they breach any other commitment they have entered into in the Club Commitment Declaration.

A breakaway Super League set up by the 12 was announced last month but fell apart after just 48 hours.

The Super League argued it would increase revenue for the top football clubs in Europe and allow them to distribute more money to the rest of the game.

However, UEFA, other teams and fan organisations said the league would only boost the power and wealth of elite clubs, and that the partially closed structure went against European football’s long-standing model.
https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2021/5 ... -uefa-deal

[benteke]

Super League trio face sanctions after nine clubs sign UEFA deal

UEFA starts disciplinary proceedings against Juventus, Real Madrid and Barcelona over breakaway competition row.


7 May 2021
The three teams that remain involved in the breakaway Super League operation, Real Madrid, Barcelona and Juventus, face sanctions from UEFA, which has reached an agreement with the nine other clubs.

European football’s governing body said on Friday the nine clubs who backed out of the plan had signed a “Club Commitment Declaration” including a series of “reintegration” steps.

The six English Premier League clubs – Arsenal, Chelsea, Liverpool, Manchester City, Manchester United and Tottenham Hotspur – along with Italy’s AC Milan and Inter Milan, and Spain’s Atletico Madrid, all signed the agreement, UEFA said in a statement.

“These clubs recognised their mistakes quickly and have taken action to demonstrate their contrition and future commitment to European football,” said UEFA president Aleksander Ceferin.

“The same cannot be said for the clubs that remain involved in the so-called ‘Super League’ and UEFA will deal with those clubs subsequently,” he added.


“UEFA has reserved all rights to take whatever action it deems appropriate against those clubs that have so far refused to renounce the so-called ‘Super League’. The matter will promptly be referred to the competent UEFA disciplinary bodies.”

‘A gesture of goodwill’
The nine clubs back in the UEFA fold have agreed to “take all steps within their power” to end their involvement in the Super League company.

“As a gesture of goodwill, and together with the other clubs, will make a donation totalling an aggregate of 15 million euros ($18.23m), to be used for the benefit of children, youth and grassroots football in local communities across Europe, including the UK,” said UEFA.

The clubs also agreed to a five percent withholding of any revenues they would receive from Champions League or Europa League involvement for one season.

The deal involved the clubs accepting they would face a 100 million euro ($121.5m) fine if they seek to play in an unauthorised competition or a 50 million euro ($60.7m) fine if they breach any other commitment they have entered into in the Club Commitment Declaration.

A breakaway Super League set up by the 12 was announced last month but fell apart after just 48 hours.

The Super League argued it would increase revenue for the top football clubs in Europe and allow them to distribute more money to the rest of the game.

However, UEFA, other teams and fan organisations said the league would only boost the power and wealth of elite clubs, and that the partially closed structure went against European football’s long-standing model.
https://www.aljazeera.com/sports/2021/5 ... -uefa-deal

What exactly would be the reason for Madrid, Barcelona and Juve holding out.

Do they have another trick up their sleeves, or is it just plain desperation

[cic old boy]

What exactly would be the reason for Madrid, Barcelona and Juve holding out.

Do they have another trick up their sleeves, or is it just plain desperation

My guess is ego, saving face and a bargaining trick.

[txj]

What ego? Whose ego?

As long as football as a business continues to leave huge sums on the table and perpetuates transfer payments to middlemen, these issues will not go away...

[cic old boy]

European Super League: Juventus told they face Serie A expulsion

Juventus have been told they face expulsion from Serie A if they remain part of the European Super League.

The Turin club, along with Barcelona and Real Madrid, are yet to withdraw from the proposed breakaway league.

Italian federation president Gabriele Gravina said: "If Juventus does not respect the rules they will be out.

"At the time of registration for the next Serie A championship the club will be excluded if they decide not to withdraw from the Super League."

Juve, Barca and Real continue to be committed to the project, and last week defended their involvement in the breakaway league in the face of what they call "threats" from Uefa.

But pressure is mounting on Serie A club Juve to withdraw.

"We are all a bit tired of this tug-of-war between Uefa and these three clubs," said Gravina. "I hope this dispute can be resolved as soon as possible. I hope to be able to mediate between Juventus and Uefa.

"The rules foresee the non-participation in our championship if the principles established by the federation and Uefa are not accepted.

"It's not good for international football, Italian football, Juventus. We have already said that the football association respects the rules."

The ESL was announced on 18 April but within 48 hours the plans had fallen apart with the English clubs withdrawing after fan protests and UK government pressure.

The nine clubs who withdrew from the competition have been given a financial punishment by Uefa.

Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal, along with AC Milan, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid, also committed to the European governing body and its competitions.

They have agreed to make a combined 15m euro (£13.4m) goodwill contribution to benefit children's and grassroots football across Europe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57061939

[txj]

European Super League: Juventus told they face Serie A expulsion

Juventus have been told they face expulsion from Serie A if they remain part of the European Super League.

The Turin club, along with Barcelona and Real Madrid, are yet to withdraw from the proposed breakaway league.

Italian federation president Gabriele Gravina said: "If Juventus does not respect the rules they will be out.

"At the time of registration for the next Serie A championship the club will be excluded if they decide not to withdraw from the Super League."

Juve, Barca and Real continue to be committed to the project, and last week defended their involvement in the breakaway league in the face of what they call "threats" from Uefa.

But pressure is mounting on Serie A club Juve to withdraw.

"We are all a bit tired of this tug-of-war between Uefa and these three clubs," said Gravina. "I hope this dispute can be resolved as soon as possible. I hope to be able to mediate between Juventus and Uefa.

"The rules foresee the non-participation in our championship if the principles established by the federation and Uefa are not accepted.

"It's not good for international football, Italian football, Juventus. We have already said that the football association respects the rules."

The ESL was announced on 18 April but within 48 hours the plans had fallen apart with the English clubs withdrawing after fan protests and UK government pressure.

The nine clubs who withdrew from the competition have been given a financial punishment by Uefa.

Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Chelsea, Tottenham and Arsenal, along with AC Milan, Inter Milan and Atletico Madrid, also committed to the European governing body and its competitions.

They have agreed to make a combined 15m euro (£13.4m) goodwill contribution to benefit children's and grassroots football across Europe.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/57061939

Note that this is from the President of the Italian FA, NOT the Italian League.

The Spanish boss, Tebas already said that they do not have regulatory capacity to sanction anyone.

[benteke]

[Ipe Grams]

They still trying to save face, in the end governments for each Country that has clubs in the league, fans etc will determine who can join and don’t see how especially the PL clubs will join after the way the last attempt went.

[Sleaky72]

https://www.espn.com/soccer/manchester- ... pens-again

Who were the jokers that convinced these teams that this was
a feasible venture? Total shambles!

[Bigpokey24]

-- a punishment that would have seen Arsenal and Spurs relegated during the 2019-20 campaign.

it would have been wonderful seeing assanal in the championship

[txj]

WWW.MUNDODEPORTIVO.COM
Updated 06-09-2021 18:53
The UEFA announced Wednesday the suspension of the proceedings against the three clubs who had not given up the project of the Superliga, Barcelona , Juventus and Real Madrid . “Following the opening of disciplinary proceedings against FC Barcelona , Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF for a possible violation of the UEFA legal framework in relation to the so-called 'Super League' project, the Appeal Committee of the UEFA has decided to suspend the procedure until further notice, "said the body.

Here is the full statement from UEFA :

“ UEFA has decided today, through UEFA's independent Appellate Body , to temporarily suspend the disciplinary proceedings that had been opened against FC Barcelona, ​​Juventus FC and Real Madrid CF for a possible violation of the legal framework of the UEFA regarding the so - called ' Project Superliga .

The UEFA points out that the decision to temporarily suspend the procedure has been taken by the Appellate Body of UEFA following the formal notification made to UEFA by the competent authorities Swiss on June 2, 2021 a court order obtained on April 20 of 2021 by the legal entity European Super League Company SL of the Commercial Court No. 17 of Madrid (the “Judicial Order”). The decision of the independent UEFA Appellate Body has been taken without prejudice to the question of the applicability of the court order in Switzerland.. Based on the court order, the three mentioned clubs have tried to protect themselves from possible disciplinary consequences related to this project of the so-called “Super League”.

UEFA does not throw in the towel and will continue fighting

The UEFA understands that disciplinary proceedings should be suspended for the moment, but remains confident and will continue to defend its position in all relevant jurisdictions.

The legitimacy of sports disciplinary procedures, with the right to appeal to the Court of Arbitration for Sport , has long been recognized as essential for the uniform administration of justice in sport. The European Court of Human Rights , the EU Courts and the Swiss Federal Court have repeatedly ruled that disciplinary / arbitration rules are justified by legitimate interests linked to the specific nature of sport. The UEFA therefore, not only acted in accordance with its Statutes and Regulations , but also with the legislation of the EU, the European Convention on Human Rights and Swiss law by opening an independent investigation into the conduct of the clubs associated with this so-called ' Super League ' project.

The UEFA will take all necessary measures in strict accordance with national legislation and the EU for the Appellate Body UEFA is able to resume disciplinary proceedings as soon as possible ".


https://www.mundodeportivo.com/futbol/f ... -juve.html

[kofi86]

The first statement above is wrong. In 2020 for instance, the price of football reports that the median value of PL clubs actually fell.
TV revenue is but ONE revenue stream. There are multiple others depending on the management ability of the club.

Valuation and profitability may be different metrics, but they impact each other, with value generally increasing with increasing profits.

Yes profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc. They are also affected by increased commercial revenue, which is the driving force behind LFC's increasing value...

In 2020, clubs had to deal with coro for 9 months.

The driving force for high valuations is ever rising TV deals.

Valuations tend to drop on the final years of TV deals and rise again when a new deal is agreed.

Profits for clubs (and it is just a handful that are making profits) are relatively small b/c of the factors I mentioned earlier.

Those are for the accounting period prior to covid.
]The figures do not take into account the impact of COVID-19, which, based on falls in share prices for those clubs who are quoted on stock exchanges, would reduce values presently by 25-35%]

Valuations drop in the final year of TV deals but only for clubs whose revenue streams are primarily from such deals. It doesn't drop for all teams.

LFC's value has gone up steadily.

Its ultimately a function of management ability. That's why its misleading to say, "the value would've gone up anyways"...

It doesn't work like that.

As you stated, only a handful of clubs are making profit. That is because football leaves a lot of value on the table. The NFL which is largely US-based makes multiples of what football, a global game, with a global audience makes.

That is precisely why FSG is looking at the SL idea....

Is this a joke? There are probably a million ways how could try to measure value, but here is the development of FC Barcelona's value over the past years according to Forbes (cited via Wikipedia):

2007: 535m
2008: 784m
2009: 960m (probably best season ever)
2010: 1.000m
2011: 975m
2012: 1.307m
2013: 2.600m
2014: 3.200m (Bartomeu takes over)
2015: 3.160m
2016: 3.549m
2017: 3.635m
2018: 4.060m
2019: 4.205m
2021(no 2020): 5.760m


The management must have become better and better

It is not at all to say that the value would have gone up anyways qed (for example, if Liverpool had been relegated the value might have not gone up). No valuation method will not look at future income or cash flows. Massively increasing tv deals will drive any value up.


edit: btw for clubs like Bayern, Real Madrid or FC Barcelona making money is not the highest priority, winning trophies is. Money is needed to ensure competetiveness. For the US-owned clubs is usually the other way round.

[benteke]

European Super League: Juventus, Barcelona, Real Madrid admitted to Champions League despite involvement in breakaway project

Admission letters have been sent to all Champions League participants, European soccer's governing body UEFA has said.

Disciplinary proceedings against Juve, Barca and Real over their involvement in the proposed Super League have been suspended by UEFA's independent appeals body.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.skyspo ... ay-project

[benteke]

The first statement above is wrong. In 2020 for instance, the price of football reports that the median value of PL clubs actually fell.
TV revenue is but ONE revenue stream. There are multiple others depending on the management ability of the club.

Valuation and profitability may be different metrics, but they impact each other, with value generally increasing with increasing profits.

Yes profits are affected by wages, debt servicing payments, buying players/agents' commissions, etc. They are also affected by increased commercial revenue, which is the driving force behind LFC's increasing value...

In 2020, clubs had to deal with coro for 9 months.

The driving force for high valuations is ever rising TV deals.

Valuations tend to drop on the final years of TV deals and rise again when a new deal is agreed.

Profits for clubs (and it is just a handful that are making profits) are relatively small b/c of the factors I mentioned earlier.

Those are for the accounting period prior to covid.
]The figures do not take into account the impact of COVID-19, which, based on falls in share prices for those clubs who are quoted on stock exchanges, would reduce values presently by 25-35%]

Valuations drop in the final year of TV deals but only for clubs whose revenue streams are primarily from such deals. It doesn't drop for all teams.

LFC's value has gone up steadily.

Its ultimately a function of management ability. That's why its misleading to say, "the value would've gone up anyways"...

It doesn't work like that.

As you stated, only a handful of clubs are making profit. That is because football leaves a lot of value on the table. The NFL which is largely US-based makes multiples of what football, a global game, with a global audience makes.

That is precisely why FSG is looking at the SL idea....

Is this a joke? There are probably a million ways how could try to measure value, but here is the development of FC Barcelona's value over the past years according to Forbes (cited via Wikipedia):

2007: 535m
2008: 784m
2009: 960m (probably best season ever)
2010: 1.000m
2011: 975m
2012: 1.307m
2013: 2.600m
2014: 3.200m (Bartomeu takes over)
2015: 3.160m
2016: 3.549m
2017: 3.635m
2018: 4.060m
2019: 4.205m
2021(no 2020): 5.760m


The management must have become better and better

It is not at all to say that the value would have gone up anyways qed (for example, if Liverpool had been relegated the value might have not gone up). No valuation method will not look at future income or cash flows. Massively increasing tv deals will drive any value up.


edit: btw for clubs like Bayern, Real Madrid or FC Barcelona making money is not the highest priority, winning trophies is. Money is needed to ensure competetiveness. For the US-owned clubs is usually the other way round.

We tried to tell txj the same point over and over but he was not interested maybe you can have better luck

[txj]

Haven't said anything...

[Bigpokey24]

Super League survives. Court order UEFA to return all the fines.....

https://www.google.com/amp/s/en.as.com/ ... 5.amp.html