IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Moderators: Moderator Team, phpBB2 - Administrators
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
What of Serbia?vancity eagle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:12 pm Very slack defending almost cost Ghana today. Do you see what I'm talking about ?
We try to get the job done with minimal effort. Defenders ball watching as Korea WANTED IT MORE, on those 2 crosses and goals.
You cannot be slack at this level.
Its nice when someone shoots ur murderer in the back, without asking to be paid.
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
scholl wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 11:29 pmAbsolutely, If you also believe that fasting, prayers and blessed handkerchiefs will bring about miracles on the pitch.amafolas wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:57 pmwrong. you can go a long way even with players of limited talent, by being super organized, being well conditioned, playing a style that suits your talent, and playing with heart. The ceiling for this approach is a world cup semi.
yes at the end of the day talent speaks.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
deanotito wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 8:55 pmThis is nonsense. Listen to Robotnik. What many of you don’t seem to understand well is the difference between chance occurrences and likely outcomes.amafolas wrote: ↑Sat Nov 26, 2022 7:57 pmwrong. you can go a long way even with players of limited talent, by being super organized, being well conditioned, playing a style that suits your talent, and playing with heart. The ceiling for this approach is a world cup semi.
yes at the end of the day talent speaks.
If you don’t have quality (in any area of life), you’re not going very far against those that do. Player no sabi trap ball and your talking organization and “heart”. Heart is evenly distributed. Talent is not
Although I believe amafolas is saying that talent (quality) without ‘heart’ is equally nothing.
There has to be optimization of both for any achievable results.
"Ole kuku ni gbogbo wọn "
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
No, we don’t see what you’re saying. Cause your reasoning is constantly changing. What’s the cause of slack defending? Heart? Defensive organization/scheme, talent?vancity eagle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:12 pm Very slack defending almost cost Ghana today. Do you see what I'm talking about ?
We try to get the job done with minimal effort. Defenders ball watching as Korea WANTED IT MORE, on those 2 crosses and goals.
You cannot be slack at this level.
If you don’t answer that, then you’re simply trying to cover your bases and are not really saying anything in particular.
And as Damunk asked, what about Serbia?
If purge dey worry you, you no dey select toilet
-
- Eaglet
- Posts: 20304
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
What about Serbia ?deanotito wrote: ↑Tue Nov 29, 2022 10:07 amNo, we don’t see what you’re saying. Cause your reasoning is constantly changing. What’s the cause of slack defending? Heart? Defensive organization/scheme, talent?vancity eagle wrote: ↑Mon Nov 28, 2022 8:12 pm Very slack defending almost cost Ghana today. Do you see what I'm talking about ?
We try to get the job done with minimal effort. Defenders ball watching as Korea WANTED IT MORE, on those 2 crosses and goals.
You cannot be slack at this level.
If you don’t answer that, then you’re simply trying to cover your bases and are not really saying anything in particular.
And as Damunk asked, what about Serbia?
Yeah it was the same thing. It's not that ONLY Africans do it. It's that they seem to do it MORE OFTEN than others.
But actually 2 of those Cameroon goals were very well executed. Inch perfect.
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
"African players are lazy and lack determination": Laidouni, Amrabat, Hakimi, Aboubakar and others say hi.
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Highest African Ranked Teams pre-World Cup
1. Senegal
2. Morocco
African Teams that made the second round:
1. Senegal
2. Morocco
Quality is the biggest determinant of success. Not “heart”
1. Senegal
2. Morocco
African Teams that made the second round:
1. Senegal
2. Morocco
Quality is the biggest determinant of success. Not “heart”
If purge dey worry you, you no dey select toilet
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Dean,
Take it easy with the above. Note that while Senegal's ranking, compared to group counterparts led to a predictable qualification. That was not the case with Morocco! By the ranking, Morocco would not have moved on given that two other teams in its group were higher ranked. Thus, using the African ranking in isolation needs further explanation to support the point you attempt to make.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Chief, in the context of this thread, the premise was that African teams lose because they don’t have “heart”. Some of us retorted that heart was not the issue. Quality was. There would be statistical anomalies, but in general, the best performing teams will be the best quality teams.Enugu II wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:39 amDean,
Take it easy with the above. Note that while Senegal's ranking, compared to group counterparts led to a predictable qualification. That was not the case with Morocco! By the ranking, Morocco would not have moved on given that two other teams in its group were higher ranked. Thus, using the African ranking in isolation needs further explanation to support the point you attempt to make.
When adjusted for our ranking, Nigeria is a 1st-2nd round team. And guess what? Those are the results we have gotten
The only year we really “underperformed” was 1994. The rest, we performed to our level
If purge dey worry you, you no dey select toilet
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Obviously not all. But players who lack killer instinct and awareness like Aboubakar. Scoring an important goal, wasting time, earning a red card, laughing with the ref as if his team doesn't have a match to win
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Heart
Tactical Discipline and Organization
Player Quality
Optimize these parameters and your nearly there.
Morocco says Hi
Tactical Discipline and Organization
Player Quality
Optimize these parameters and your nearly there.
Morocco says Hi
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
The truth is that heart and determination will only get u so far, the rest is quality…
Come QF and onwards…..only the quality teams survive…
Occasionally, add a technically astute manager and you may, just may punch above ur weight (that’s what SE needs)
Come QF and onwards…..only the quality teams survive…
Occasionally, add a technically astute manager and you may, just may punch above ur weight (that’s what SE needs)
The stupid neither forgive nor forget- the smart forgive- but never forget" -Thomas Szasz.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.
“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP
Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.
“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP
Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
FALSE. I assume by quality you are thinking of players in the Top 5 leagues? Not so. If so, you are wrong. Form is always temporal. While quality (for whatever constitutes it) is important, so are other factors, some of which no one can measure as we speak because they are largely psychological and based on chance. If football was that predictable, why even play it? We may as well play them back as recorded movies.
The difficulties of statistical thinking describes a puzzling limitation of our mind: our excessive confidence in what we believe we know, and our apparent inability to acknowledge the full extent of our ignorance and the uncertainty of the world we live in. We are prone to overestimate how much we understand about the world and to underestimate the role of chance in events -- Daniel Kahneman (2011), Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Heart is useless. Everybody has or can have it. So it’s not a distinguishing factor at the end of the day. Player Quality is the hardest to get and for African teams, very hard. Tactical Discipline & Organization is somewhat difficult but you can buy the personnel that trains your team to be better at that.
Let’s take a simpler sport so some of you can understand what we are saying. There is no one that runs in the 100m final that doesn’t have heart. No one. Everybody wants to win. While times may fluctuate throughout the season, the 10th fastest runner in the year doesn’t just spring up and beat Usain Bolt. Bolt would sometimes run like he wasn’t trying. Many times, he’d pull up well before the finish line and look like he’s taunting his opponents who look 3 meters behind him. That is Quality!
Morocco says what? I thought the author said African teams don’t do well cause they don’t have heart? So…Morocco says what?
The real “Heart” work happens well before the tournament/race. It shows up in your dedication to get better. If we enter a tournament with players that need 3 touches to bring a long ball under control and we match them up against players that use 1 touch and the ball answers to their breath, it will show in the results.
If purge dey worry you, you no dey select toilet
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Bro, the truth is that football IS PREDICTABLE…Enugu II wrote: ↑Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:27 pm
FALSE. I assume by quality you are thinking of players in the Top 5 leagues? Not so. If so, you are wrong. Form is always temporal. While quality (for whatever constitutes it) is important, so are other factors, some of which no one can measure as we speak because they are largely psychological and based on chance. If football was that predictable, why even play it? We may as well play them back as recorded movies.
Before the WC, if I asked the group to give me 3 teams that will likely make the QF….
EVERY LIST WILL INCLUDE: BRAZIL, FRANCE, ARGENTINA
That’s not chance….they have the best players with the best team spine
Now with an astute manager and some luck, u may get Morrocco…ONCE IN A WHILE…..
Do u think Man City keeps wining the premier league based on chance?
Please don’t type Leicester - cos that’s not chance that’s a well assembled team Spine….
Kasper, Huth, Kante, Vardy…with a great supporting act…Mayrez. Morgan, Chilwell, drinkwater etc
U have a great team, CHANCES ARE you will win if you prepare well
The stupid neither forgive nor forget- the smart forgive- but never forget" -Thomas Szasz.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.
“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP
Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.
“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP
Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Matey, ur right but…. I won’t mind that if we qualify…let’s start with qualifyingSynopsis wrote: ↑Sun Nov 27, 2022 11:30 pmNigeria needs to stop benching our players after winning two games. It has never worked for us.
The stupid neither forgive nor forget- the smart forgive- but never forget" -Thomas Szasz.
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.
“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP
Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
"Nothing in the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and consciencious stupidity."
-Martin Luther King- Jr.
“Our Audacity to rise from our losses is what makes Nigerian the number one footballing nation in Africa - Stephen Keshi RIP
Those who don't take decisions never make mistakes."..........
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
Exactly. Some of us have been trying to drum this into folks here for like ever. Yes, there would be anomalies, like Morocco currently, but on the whole, teams perform according to their ranking.deanotito wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:13 amChief, in the context of this thread, the premise was that African teams lose because they don’t have “heart”. Some of us retorted that heart was not the issue. Quality was. There would be statistical anomalies, but in general, the best performing teams will be the best quality teams.Enugu II wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:39 amDean,
Take it easy with the above. Note that while Senegal's ranking, compared to group counterparts led to a predictable qualification. That was not the case with Morocco! By the ranking, Morocco would not have moved on given that two other teams in its group were higher ranked. Thus, using the African ranking in isolation needs further explanation to support the point you attempt to make.
When adjusted for our ranking, Nigeria is a 1st-2nd round team. And guess what? Those are the results we have gotten
The only year we really “underperformed” was 1994. The rest, we performed to our level
"I Think, Therefore I am" - Rene Descartes
-
- Eaglet
- Posts: 20304
- Joined: Mon Dec 29, 2003 7:40 pm
Re: IVE FINALLY FIGURED OUT THE PROBLEM WITH SE & CAF TEAMS
But you are assuming those "rankings" are even accurate, which they clearly are not.Orion wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 11:56 amExactly. Some of us have been trying to drum this into folks here for like ever. Yes, there would be anomalies, like Morocco currently, but on the whole, teams perform according to their ranking.deanotito wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 5:13 amChief, in the context of this thread, the premise was that African teams lose because they don’t have “heart”. Some of us retorted that heart was not the issue. Quality was. There would be statistical anomalies, but in general, the best performing teams will be the best quality teams.Enugu II wrote: ↑Sat Dec 03, 2022 2:39 amDean,
Take it easy with the above. Note that while Senegal's ranking, compared to group counterparts led to a predictable qualification. That was not the case with Morocco! By the ranking, Morocco would not have moved on given that two other teams in its group were higher ranked. Thus, using the African ranking in isolation needs further explanation to support the point you attempt to make.
When adjusted for our ranking, Nigeria is a 1st-2nd round team. And guess what? Those are the results we have gotten
The only year we really “underperformed” was 1994. The rest, we performed to our level
Those rankings discriminate against African teams and exaggerate the strength of other sides.
Again people have misconstrued what I am saying.
It isn't that "heart" is the only thing for success, it's that more often than not, what has let African teams down IS NOT QUALITY, but lack of 100% effort or even focus at key moments.
Failure from an African perspective is far more attributed to that than lack of quality.
Was it lack of quality that made us lose to Italy in the final seconds of full time?
Did Turkey have more quality than Senegal in 2002 ?
Did Greece have more quality than CIV in 2014 ?
Was lack of quality why Senegal failed to get a draw against Colombia in 2018 ?
There is a pattern here.