Antonio Concecao - any takers?

[danfo driver]

.

[danfo driver]

Wowo and Obidient movement is a major threat to Nigeria. It is even worse than Corruption in my opinion.

Yea because your drug baron president is doing a swell job at the moment

if WOWO wasn't a problem there won't be a lot of Japa and foreign imports which is affecting the economy, You will have law makers buy Nigeria goods instead of buying expensive luxury cars. Nigerians won't be importing all of their fuel. They would fix the refineries. The Naira would be stronger. It is not all Tinubu fault.

Obidient movement is like the west cancel culture leftist crowd. highly intolerant people.

I think you are referring to your fellow Agbadoists who are well known tribalists; who beat up and even killed a few people during the last election. It was so bad that your tribalists turned on their own - Gbadebo - because his mother is an Igbo woman.

Some times you should learn to keep quiet and say nothing, so you do not expose yourself. You should be ashamed to publicly align yourself with drug dealing and tribalism.

[Enugu II]

Txj

It appears you have difficulty understanding the issues. Let me lay it down for you.

1. You said that best practice represents identifying a manager that works for you and then hiring the individual. Then you cited its use in Europe.

2. You denounced an interview process as not being good.

3. I pointed out to you that the #1 above is not good enough because it breeds an old boys network. Noted that this is why Black managers in England is rare.

4. I then noted that the same system you noted as best practice and used in England is changing in the USA.

5. How? In the USA [E.g. NFL] they have recognized pitfalls in the old boy network that you cited as best practice by requiring that teams interview atleast one minority candidate. In addition if a minority is hired and the team loses the guy to another team, a first round pick is awarded to incentivize. Essentially, this is an attempt to repair.

6. The repair system above should let you know that the system is not that good. You still have refused acknowledge as much. That does not surprise me. LOL.

7. I note that even this repair system is still not as good as a hiring process should be we. Why? It is not open enough for all candidates to apply! A better system should be one that advertises and allows all qualified candidates to apply as is the case for multiple other jobs including in Europe and USA.

Hopefully, you can see clearly what the debate is. Is there anything there that I have misconstrued? Let me know.

[oluwaseye the 1st.]

Danfo and Ohenhen, kindly take politics away from the forum. Thank you very much.

[Enugu II]

BOOM, I just found a piece that makes even more clear. This not only points to the case that I have strived to make but it even cites actual research work conducted and much more.....please let us spend the time and be more informed on this important matter.

Why Aren’t There More Black Managers In English Soccer?
By Tim Wigmore
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/wh ... sh-soccer/
MAY 31, 2022, AT 10:52 AM

A 'No Room For Racism' handshake board is seen on the pitch prior to a Premier League match
Signs reading “No room for racism” are common in Premier League stadiums. Yet there is a significant lack of representation for Black people throughout the coaching ranks and management positions of English soccer.

The English Premier League is filled with elite Black talent. Manchester City pair Raheem Sterling and Kyle Walker, Manchester United duo Jadon Sancho and Marcus Rashford, Liverpool’s Trent Alexander-Arnold, Chelsea’s Reece James, Arsenal’s Bukayo Saka — all are excelling on the pitch. Ten players on the England squad that reached the final of the UEFA European Football Championships last summer were Black.

But the success of English soccer’s Black players has not translated into other opportunities at clubs. Though the issue of Black representation in soccer management has been discussed for decades, progress has been glacial — if it is even visible at all. Forty-three percent of players in the Premier League in 2021 were Black, as were 34 percent of players across the next three divisions that make up the top 92 clubs in the English football pyramid. But only 4.4 percent of managerial positions typically associated with professional playing experience are held by Black people, as documented in new research by the University of Michigan sports economist Stefan Szymanski. The lack of diversity among head coaches, then, is even starker than in the NFL, where six out of 32 current head coaches are members of a racial or ethnic minority, with four of them Black.

In English soccer, an overwhelming number of managers are ex-professional players. Yet Black former players have routinely been overlooked for prominent jobs. Of the 94 men who played in the Premier League or Football League since 2004 and hold a UEFA Pro License, the highest professional qualification available to managers, three-quarters held management positions in either league in 2021. Just 23 percent of them were Black. There have been only 28 Black managers in the history of the English professional game, according to the Black Footballers Partnership, a body advocating for better representation of Black people in leadership positions in the sport. (The organization also commissioned Szymanski’s new research.)

Black footballers also historically faced discrimination when it comes to their earnings. A paper from Szymanski details how, from 1986 to 1993, an all-white team’s wage expenditure was about 5 percent higher than that of an equally successful team fielding an average proportion of Black players. The Black players were consistently underpaid.

Subsequent research has shown that, from the mid-1990s, Black players have been paid wages in line with their performances and no longer suffer from economic discrimination in the game. Yet barriers to management, and other coaching positions, evidently remain. Last year, only 10 percent of Black players to retire since 2004 had any managerial or coaching position at a professional English club; for white players, the figure was 50 percent, according to Szymanski.

One explanation for the lack of Black managers is the difficulty of assessing potential managers and the findings that, in most cases, managers have relatively little impact on team performance. Managers in soccer, like leading figures in other sports, are often appointed through informal networks and contacts within tame, rather than a transparent application process. Delroy Corinaldi, the co-founder of the Black Footballers Partnership, said this system tends to disadvantage Black people, who are generally locked outside these networks. “The decision-makers in the game and ecosystem are largely from a similar group, unlike on the pitch.”

The underrepresentation of Black people in senior executive positions in soccer is even starker than among managers. Just 1.6 percent of those in major executive, leadership and ownership positions are Black, according to Szymanski’s research: The only two Black owners or co-owners of professional clubs he found were at Burton Albion and Salford City, relatively low-profile clubs in the English third and fourth tiers. This lack of Black owners appears to contribute to the lack of Black managers. “[T]here is, and always has been, a ­disconnect ­between owners and Black former players,” Stan Collymore, a former England international player, wrote in 2020.


English soccer history illustrates how leading decision-makers have often harbored racist beliefs. In 1991, Ron Noades, who was then the chairman of Crystal Palace, gave a television interview in which he discussed what he termed “the problem with Black players” and outlined his racist views. “When it’s behind them it’s chaos,” Noades said. “I don’t think too many of them can read the game. When you’re getting into the mid-winter you need a few of the hard white men to carry the athletic Black players through.”

Such attitudes aren’t as far in the past as English soccer would like to believe. In 2018, West Ham’s director of player recruitment, Tony Henry, wrote in an email that the club would not sign any more African players, complaining that African players had “a bad attitude” and could “cause mayhem” if they were not selected for matches. In 2020, Greg Clarke resigned from his role as chairman of the Football Association after making racist comments during a hearing in the British Parliament.

English soccer could look to another league as an example of better representation: the NBA. In the 2021 NBA offseason, seven of the eight head coaching vacancies were filled by Black coaches. Overall, according to The Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sport, Black people during the 2020-21 NBA season made up 50 percent of head coaches, 53 percent of assistant coaches and 40 percent of general managers. These numbers reflect the dominance of Black players in the league: Almost 75 percent of NBA players are Black.

So far, English soccer’s approach to encouraging Black managers has focused on voluntary measures. It took until 2019 before the English equivalent of the Rooney Rule — which the NFL has shown is no panacea — became mandatory in the second to fourth tiers of English soccer; the Premier League has refused to implement the rule. Only around half of clubs in the Premier League and the next three divisions have adopted targets from the Football Association’s “Football Leadership Diversity Code” established in 2020; last year, most of the voluntary targets were missed too.

The Black Footballers Partnership believes that the rate of change in English football has been so slow that the sport must take more radical action. It argues for greater targeted learning opportunities for Black current and former players to develop their coaching, designed by Black people working in the sport, and better-funded structures to unite Black current and former players. Most notably, the Black Footballers Partnership advocates introducing compulsory hiring quotas for ethnic minorities: a recognition, Corinaldi said, that voluntary measures have failed. His hope is that, when it comes time for the current generation of leading English Black soccer players to enter management, they will have a fair chance.

[txj]

Txj

It appears you have difficulty understanding the issues. Let me lay it down for you.

1. You said that best practice represents identifying a manager that works for you and then hiring the individual. Then you cited its use in Europe.

No. I cited its use globally. That is what best practice means. You continue to have this odious habit of misrepresenting me and then arguing against a phantom point.

2. You denounced an interview process as not being good.

No sir. I denounced the open application process and pointed out that this is what is called a non-merit hire- you shortlist the best fit for your specific needs and then you ascertain their availability and interview them..

3. I pointed out to you that the #1 above is not good enough because it breeds an old boys network. Noted that this is why Black managers in England is rare.

While the above may be true, the discussion is about Nigeria. The Nigerian domestic game is comprised of100% black coaches.

4. I then noted that the same system you noted as best practice and used in England is changing in the USA.

The term best practice is global. The difference between the US and England is the application of the Rooney Rule in the NFL. Note, not in the MLS but the NFL. In any case this has zero to do with Nigeria which has 100% of black coaches in the NPFL.

5. How? In the USA [E.g. NFL] they have recognized pitfalls in the old boy network that you cited as best practice by requiring that teams interview atleast one minority candidate. In addition if a minority is hired and the team loses the guy to another team, a first round pick is awarded to incentivize. Essentially, this is an attempt to repair.

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

As I have done repeatedly, I challenge you again to name ONE TEAM anywhere that has an open application hiring process.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!!

6. The repair system above should let you know that the system is not that good. You still have refused acknowledge as much. That does not surprise me. LOL.

7. I note that even this repair system is still not as good as a hiring process should be we. Why? It is not open enough for all candidates to apply! A better system should be one that advertises and allows all qualified candidates to apply as is the case for multiple other jobs including in Europe and USA.

Again I challenge you to name one top team or country that invites open applications for hiring a coach.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!

Hopefully, you can see clearly what the debate is. Is there anything there that I have misconstrued? Let me know.

[Lolly]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

[fabio]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

The Beligan coach lives in Belgium and pays taxes in Belgium. Why is una own different?

[Enugu II]

Txj

It appears you have difficulty understanding the issues. Let me lay it down for you.

1. You said that best practice represents identifying a manager that works for you and then hiring the individual. Then you cited its use in Europe.

No. I cited its use globally. That is what best practice means. You continue to have this odious habit of misrepresenting me and then arguing against a phantom point.

2. You denounced an interview process as not being good.

No sir. I denounced the open application process and pointed out that this is what is called a non-merit hire- you shortlist the best fit for your specific needs and then you ascertain their availability and interview them..

3. I pointed out to you that the #1 above is not good enough because it breeds an old boys network. Noted that this is why Black managers in England is rare.

While the above may be true, the discussion is about Nigeria. The Nigerian domestic game is comprised of100% black coaches.

4. I then noted that the same system you noted as best practice and used in England is changing in the USA.

The term best practice is global. The difference between the US and England is the application of the Rooney Rule in the NFL. Note, not in the MLS but the NFL. In any case this has zero to do with Nigeria which has 100% of black coaches in the NPFL.

5. How? In the USA [E.g. NFL] they have recognized pitfalls in the old boy network that you cited as best practice by requiring that teams interview atleast one minority candidate. In addition if a minority is hired and the team loses the guy to another team, a first round pick is awarded to incentivize. Essentially, this is an attempt to repair.

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

As I have done repeatedly, I challenge you again to name ONE TEAM anywhere that has an open application hiring process.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!!

6. The repair system above should let you know that the system is not that good. You still have refused acknowledge as much. That does not surprise me. LOL.

7. I note that even this repair system is still not as good as a hiring process should be we. Why? It is not open enough for all candidates to apply! A better system should be one that advertises and allows all qualified candidates to apply as is the case for multiple other jobs including in Europe and USA.

Again I challenge you to name one top team or country that invites open applications for hiring a coach.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!

Hopefully, you can see clearly what the debate is. Is there anything there that I have misconstrued? Let me know.

Txj,

I point out that the teams and leagues are using a decadent process and should move to a modern process. Not so? So what is the logic in asking me to name a team using the MODERN PROCESS? Did I state there is one? Perhaps, are you asking me to name one that is using a decadent process.

What I am pointing to is the need to use an innovative process, one that is used by other modern organizations. Thus, it is illogical to ask me to name a team using an illogical process.

Txj, let me acknowledge and thank you for atleast admitting that the USA has amended the decadent process. I repeat your admission below and that is important represents progress in the debate:

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

You now admit that "US process which addresses the issue of access". Okay, that means the UK process evidently does not address the access problem of "Access"? No to?

So what and how do you think the UK system should address the ACCESS issue? Note that I have suggested the application and interview as a solution. What is your suggestion? Let's make progress. I hope you read the article that I posted because it helps.

I await eagerly for your answer.

[aruako1]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

While I wouldn't go as far at using slavery language, the analogy with Belgium makes no sense. Have Martinez and Tedesco been treated better than local managers such as Wilmots? We can have foreign managers but we should hold offer them the same relative conditions and hold them to the same standards as the local managers.

[Lolly]

I actually disagree a little bit. If there is a foreign coach that is good, He should be hired, But the problem is they keep picking bad foreign coaches while discriminating against local coaches. To make things worse, they come up with excuses to keep them, Remember how they attacked Amodu(RIP) for finishing third. The same people said Rohr met his contract requirement, they should keep him.

This is why nobody really takes you serious in this place. You keep on confirming it with your love for wuru-wuruing-to-the-answer’.

FYI…the people that attacked Amodu and got him sacked for coming third are ‘the same people’ in all probability that got Rohr sacked for coming third. Amodu qualified us for the World Cup and was sacked just like Rohr qualified us for AFCON and got sacked before the tournament. Same mindset.
Meanwhile those that resisted the sacking of Rohr after he met his contractual obligations are in all likelihood ‘the same people’ that objected to the sacking of Amodu.
That’s why I say you are a dishonest person.
Rewriting history and trying to reinvent the definition of logic.

Florence Omagbemi won Afcon. Randy Waldrum finished 4th at Afcon. The WOWO crowd fought for him like he was a savior. The guy went to the World cup, played a complete defense style. Lost to a 10 man England in the knockout stage, playing defensive football. He comes back to Nigeria. That tournament style football is now struggling to beat Cameroon and will face South Africa next. What does the Wowo crowd say, Waldrum is excellent.

What a silly argument.
It’s not really worth reacting to.

But maybe I should:

You dey try.

[Enyi]

In 2345, the slave coast also known as Nigeria will be looking for a foreign coach. Nigeria was called a slave coast for a reason. The people and their leaders think like slaves

Yup! It’s slave mentality when we hire foreigners but discrimination when they don’t hire our players or coaches. If we did things the right way we wouldn’t have to reference slavery in 2024. Doing so is SLAVE mentality. Perpetual victim hood.

No. It's deemed discrimination when one is not hired even though one meets the criteria needed to be given the job. It is more slavish when this occurs in ones own country. Nigerians don't like to hear the truth. I know it doesn't sound nice but it is the harsh reality. Nigeria is still a slave coast.

Nigeria has won Afcon with a local coach and a FC. Is it not a Slave mentality to believe that we do not know the difference between a good coach and a mediocre coach? The issue seems to be that you have such low expectations of Nigerians that you do not believe we can make the right decision local or foreign.
That is what George Bush jr called the soft bigotry of low expectations.

Really? Is that you're imagination or did I make that claim? Please shed some light. My issue is that we shouldnt mortgage our future to a foreign coach? Is it wrong to sink or swim with a Nigerian?
lol with your quote of George Bush

I believe it is wrong…to sink or swim with anyone…

Hire a coach that will most likely swim regardless of skin colour!

[txj]

Txj

It appears you have difficulty understanding the issues. Let me lay it down for you.

1. You said that best practice represents identifying a manager that works for you and then hiring the individual. Then you cited its use in Europe.

No. I cited its use globally. That is what best practice means. You continue to have this odious habit of misrepresenting me and then arguing against a phantom point.

2. You denounced an interview process as not being good.

No sir. I denounced the open application process and pointed out that this is what is called a non-merit hire- you shortlist the best fit for your specific needs and then you ascertain their availability and interview them..

3. I pointed out to you that the #1 above is not good enough because it breeds an old boys network. Noted that this is why Black managers in England is rare.

While the above may be true, the discussion is about Nigeria. The Nigerian domestic game is comprised of100% black coaches.

4. I then noted that the same system you noted as best practice and used in England is changing in the USA.

The term best practice is global. The difference between the US and England is the application of the Rooney Rule in the NFL. Note, not in the MLS but the NFL. In any case this has zero to do with Nigeria which has 100% of black coaches in the NPFL.

5. How? In the USA [E.g. NFL] they have recognized pitfalls in the old boy network that you cited as best practice by requiring that teams interview atleast one minority candidate. In addition if a minority is hired and the team loses the guy to another team, a first round pick is awarded to incentivize. Essentially, this is an attempt to repair.

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

As I have done repeatedly, I challenge you again to name ONE TEAM anywhere that has an open application hiring process.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!!

6. The repair system above should let you know that the system is not that good. You still have refused acknowledge as much. That does not surprise me. LOL.

7. I note that even this repair system is still not as good as a hiring process should be we. Why? It is not open enough for all candidates to apply! A better system should be one that advertises and allows all qualified candidates to apply as is the case for multiple other jobs including in Europe and USA.

Again I challenge you to name one top team or country that invites open applications for hiring a coach.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!

Hopefully, you can see clearly what the debate is. Is there anything there that I have misconstrued? Let me know.

Txj,

I point out that the teams and leagues are using a decadent process and should move to a modern process. Not so? So what is the logic in asking me to name a team using the MODERN PROCESS? Did I state there is one? Perhaps, are you asking me to name one that is using a decadent process.

What I am pointing to is the need to use an innovative process, one that is used by other modern organizations. Thus, it is illogical to ask me to name a team using an illogical process.

Its not an innovation if NOBODY is using it! NOBODY is using open invitations for applications to hire coaches. NOBODY! And that is why you cannot give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE.

Your are in academics and d/4 understand the concept of best practices as well as evidence-based guidelines. So why is it that NOBODY is using your so-called innovative approach????

Txj, let me acknowledge and thank you for atleast admitting that the USA has amended the decadent process. I repeat your admission below and that is important represents progress in the debate:

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

You now admit that "US process which addresses the issue of access". Okay, that means the UK process evidently does not address the access problem of "Access"? No to?

Please stay focused on the issue, which is your claim that open application is the most innovative way for Nigeria and others to hire a coach.

What existing evidence suggests that this is an innovation?

Who in any part of world football is using this so called innovative approach?

Which coach/manager was hired using this "innovative approach"

What published paper exists to support this?

Which NFL team, while implementing the Rooney Rule to improve access of minority coaches, uses this so called innovative approach?

So what and how do you think the UK system should address the ACCESS issue? Note that I have suggested the application and interview as a solution. What is your suggestion? Let's make progress. I hope you read the article that I posted because it helps.

I await eagerly for your answer.

[Lolly]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

While I wouldn't go as far at using slavery language, the analogy with Belgium makes no sense. Have Martinez and Tedesco been treated better than local managers such as Wilmots? We can have foreign managers but we should hold offer them the same relative conditions and hold them to the same standards as the local managers.

Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.

Does this make Belgians slaves?

[Lolly]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

The Beligan coach lives in Belgium and pays taxes in Belgium. Why is una own different?

Good point.

So we can add that to the requirements if we want to go the route of employing a foreign coach.

[Enugu II]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

The Beligan coach lives in Belgium and pays taxes in Belgium. Why is una own different?

Good point.

So we can add that to the requirements if we want to go the route of employing a foreign coach.

Lolly,

I thought some pips have argued that it is not necessary since all our players play in Europe any way. Never mind that Europe is a continent with our players playing in different countries but it is better for the coach to live in hisd homer country in Europe and not in Nigeria where he is paid to work! I shake my head.

[Enugu II]

Txj

It appears you have difficulty understanding the issues. Let me lay it down for you.

1. You said that best practice represents identifying a manager that works for you and then hiring the individual. Then you cited its use in Europe.

No. I cited its use globally. That is what best practice means. You continue to have this odious habit of misrepresenting me and then arguing against a phantom point.

2. You denounced an interview process as not being good.

No sir. I denounced the open application process and pointed out that this is what is called a non-merit hire- you shortlist the best fit for your specific needs and then you ascertain their availability and interview them..

3. I pointed out to you that the #1 above is not good enough because it breeds an old boys network. Noted that this is why Black managers in England is rare.

While the above may be true, the discussion is about Nigeria. The Nigerian domestic game is comprised of100% black coaches.

4. I then noted that the same system you noted as best practice and used in England is changing in the USA.

The term best practice is global. The difference between the US and England is the application of the Rooney Rule in the NFL. Note, not in the MLS but the NFL. In any case this has zero to do with Nigeria which has 100% of black coaches in the NPFL.

5. How? In the USA [E.g. NFL] they have recognized pitfalls in the old boy network that you cited as best practice by requiring that teams interview atleast one minority candidate. In addition if a minority is hired and the team loses the guy to another team, a first round pick is awarded to incentivize. Essentially, this is an attempt to repair.

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

As I have done repeatedly, I challenge you again to name ONE TEAM anywhere that has an open application hiring process.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!!

6. The repair system above should let you know that the system is not that good. You still have refused acknowledge as much. That does not surprise me. LOL.

7. I note that even this repair system is still not as good as a hiring process should be we. Why? It is not open enough for all candidates to apply! A better system should be one that advertises and allows all qualified candidates to apply as is the case for multiple other jobs including in Europe and USA.

Again I challenge you to name one top team or country that invites open applications for hiring a coach.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!

Hopefully, you can see clearly what the debate is. Is there anything there that I have misconstrued? Let me know.

Txj,

I point out that the teams and leagues are using a decadent process and should move to a modern process. Not so? So what is the logic in asking me to name a team using the MODERN PROCESS? Did I state there is one? Perhaps, are you asking me to name one that is using a decadent process.

What I am pointing to is the need to use an innovative process, one that is used by other modern organizations. Thus, it is illogical to ask me to name a team using an illogical process.

Its not an innovation if NOBODY is using it! NOBODY is using open invitations for applications to hire coaches. NOBODY! And that is why you cannot give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE.

Your are in academics and d/4 understand the concept of best practices as well as evidence-based guidelines. So why is it that NOBODY is using your so-called innovative approach????

Txj, let me acknowledge and thank you for atleast admitting that the USA has amended the decadent process. I repeat your admission below and that is important represents progress in the debate:

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

You now admit that "US process which addresses the issue of access". Okay, that means the UK process evidently does not address the access problem of "Access"? No to?

Please stay focused on the issue, which is your claim that open application is the most innovative way for Nigeria and others to hire a coach.

What existing evidence suggests that this is an innovation?

Who in any part of world football is using this so called innovative approach?

Which coach/manager was hired using this "innovative approach"

What published paper exists to support this?

Which NFL team, while implementing the Rooney Rule to improve access of minority coaches, uses this so called innovative approach?

So what and how do you think the UK system should address the ACCESS issue? Note that I have suggested the application and interview as a solution. What is your suggestion? Let's make progress. I hope you read the article that I posted because it helps.

I await eagerly for your answer.

Txj,

Give you which example? I have ABSOLUTELY NO EXAMPLE to give from as decadent football system that I am asking to change by introducing an innovative one with litany of examples from boardroom examples even from your very workplace, I suppose. Do you need me to post an example from the corporate workplace? Are you not aware of what goes on therein?

In any case, why has it been a difficult thing for you to answer the question that I have repeated over and over? Is it not simple or clear enough.


Let me guess? You are finding it excruciatingly difficult to admit that the system you advocate has been found wanting in places like the United States where a repair to the system has been advanced and used and is still being repaired. Is that not the fact? In any case, you did admit that such a repair to the system was indeed made.

Is that repair better? Or should we assume that you remain attached to a system that you have clearly admitted was restricted only to as few?

Txj, I just say that we says thanks that people challenging the system continue to speak out about the ills wherever they may be. It may take long but BETTER BELIEVE that there will be change. If access to the playing field was not fought by people , the Black footballers you see today on the field will not exist at the highest level. Never underestimate that. I remember as a child when we were celeb rating the appearance of Viv Anderson for Arsenal at fightback. It was a novelty. You remember even the English team a few years ago what it looked like until the current manager came around with his VALUABLE experience managing at the youth level. That experience helped in his decision and England has gained from it today.

They have not sat back like you and others, claiming that the current system is Nirvana. Instead, they challenged the system and the gates opened. Those Black coaches toiling today and challenging the current system will be the heroes of tomorrow. They may not gain from their fight but surely their children and others would. That is what matters.

Lesson do not ALWAYS accept the status quo #$% the limit of what can be good. Think beyond and imagine a BETTER context. Do not see tokenism and EVER call it racial equality. There is a difference. Do not see Institutional racism and claim it isn't racism simply because it is not overt. Be able to dig deep and analyze. That is the only way racism will not find solace.

[txj]

Txj

It appears you have difficulty understanding the issues. Let me lay it down for you.

1. You said that best practice represents identifying a manager that works for you and then hiring the individual. Then you cited its use in Europe.

No. I cited its use globally. That is what best practice means. You continue to have this odious habit of misrepresenting me and then arguing against a phantom point.

2. You denounced an interview process as not being good.

No sir. I denounced the open application process and pointed out that this is what is called a non-merit hire- you shortlist the best fit for your specific needs and then you ascertain their availability and interview them..

3. I pointed out to you that the #1 above is not good enough because it breeds an old boys network. Noted that this is why Black managers in England is rare.

While the above may be true, the discussion is about Nigeria. The Nigerian domestic game is comprised of100% black coaches.

4. I then noted that the same system you noted as best practice and used in England is changing in the USA.

The term best practice is global. The difference between the US and England is the application of the Rooney Rule in the NFL. Note, not in the MLS but the NFL. In any case this has zero to do with Nigeria which has 100% of black coaches in the NPFL.

5. How? In the USA [E.g. NFL] they have recognized pitfalls in the old boy network that you cited as best practice by requiring that teams interview atleast one minority candidate. In addition if a minority is hired and the team loses the guy to another team, a first round pick is awarded to incentivize. Essentially, this is an attempt to repair.

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

As I have done repeatedly, I challenge you again to name ONE TEAM anywhere that has an open application hiring process.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!!

6. The repair system above should let you know that the system is not that good. You still have refused acknowledge as much. That does not surprise me. LOL.

7. I note that even this repair system is still not as good as a hiring process should be we. Why? It is not open enough for all candidates to apply! A better system should be one that advertises and allows all qualified candidates to apply as is the case for multiple other jobs including in Europe and USA.

Again I challenge you to name one top team or country that invites open applications for hiring a coach.

ENUGU II, NAME ONE TEAM!!

Hopefully, you can see clearly what the debate is. Is there anything there that I have misconstrued? Let me know.

Txj,

I point out that the teams and leagues are using a decadent process and should move to a modern process. Not so? So what is the logic in asking me to name a team using the MODERN PROCESS? Did I state there is one? Perhaps, are you asking me to name one that is using a decadent process.

What I am pointing to is the need to use an innovative process, one that is used by other modern organizations. Thus, it is illogical to ask me to name a team using an illogical process.

Its not an innovation if NOBODY is using it! NOBODY is using open invitations for applications to hire coaches. NOBODY! And that is why you cannot give me a SINGLE EXAMPLE.

Your are in academics and d/4 understand the concept of best practices as well as evidence-based guidelines. So why is it that NOBODY is using your so-called innovative approach????

Txj, let me acknowledge and thank you for atleast admitting that the USA has amended the decadent process. I repeat your admission below and that is important represents progress in the debate:

Again this is a misunderstanding of the US process which addresses the issue of ACCESS for minorities, and not the PROCESS. No team in the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc has a hiring PROCESS which invites open applications for all and sundry, even while implementing the Rooney Rule in the nfl.

You now admit that "US process which addresses the issue of access". Okay, that means the UK process evidently does not address the access problem of "Access"? No to?

Please stay focused on the issue, which is your claim that open application is the most innovative way for Nigeria and others to hire a coach.

What existing evidence suggests that this is an innovation?

Who in any part of world football is using this so called innovative approach?

Which coach/manager was hired using this "innovative approach"

What published paper exists to support this?

Which NFL team, while implementing the Rooney Rule to improve access of minority coaches, uses this so called innovative approach?

So what and how do you think the UK system should address the ACCESS issue? Note that I have suggested the application and interview as a solution. What is your suggestion? Let's make progress. I hope you read the article that I posted because it helps.

I await eagerly for your answer.

Txj,

Give you which example? I have ABSOLUTELY NO EXAMPLE to give from as decadent football system that I am asking to change by introducing an innovative one with litany of examples from boardroom examples even from your very workplace, I suppose. Do you need me to post an example from the corporate workplace? Are you not aware of what goes on therein?

In any case, why has it been a difficult thing for you to answer the question that I have repeated over and over? Is it not simple or clear enough.


Let me guess? You are finding it excruciatingly difficult to admit that the system you advocate has been found wanting in places like the United States where a repair to the system has been advanced and used and is still being repaired. Is that not the fact? In any case, you did admit that such a repair to the system was indeed made.

Is that repair better? Or should we assume that you remain attached to a system that you have clearly admitted was restricted only to as few?

Surely there must be ONE EXAMPLE from the Global World of Sports that you can cite?

What was found wanting in the US is ACCESS for minorities. Do you know what access means? Do you understand the difference between ACCESS and HIRING?

The NFL reformed its system IMPROVE ACCESS. But nowhere in the NFL does anyone use open invitation of applications from all and sundry.

Nobody in the global world of sports uses open application process for hiring coaches.

What you have proposed is frankly a non-starter...If you went to any conference and presented it as a model for sports teams to adopt, you'd be laughed off the stage!

[Babalawo]

Wowo and Obidient movement is a major threat to Nigeria. It is even worse than Corruption in my opinion.

What has the Obedient movement got to do with this? Must you show you are a tribalistic Buffon on the www.?

[Lolly]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

The Beligan coach lives in Belgium and pays taxes in Belgium. Why is una own different?

Good point.

So we can add that to the requirements if we want to go the route of employing a foreign coach.

Lolly,

I thought some pips have argued that it is not necessary since all our players play in Europe any way. Never mind that Europe is a continent with our players playing in different countries but it is better for the coach to live in hisd homer country in Europe and not in Nigeria where he is paid to work! I shake my head.

Not that it makes any difference, but some people seem to have a problem with it. I am indifferent. The one thing that could benefit us is where he pays his taxes. Nigeria can deduct tax at source and pay him net. Problem solved.

[aruako1]

It is discrimination when the NFF boss tell the press they will not even consider a local coach then turn around and hire a foreign coach that has losing track record. Cant even get a job outside Africa That is discrimination, colo mentality. Anyways still have hope a local coach will be appointed. Even if that local coach fails. That should not disqualify a local coach from ever been considered.


The only foreign coach that has had success after leaving Nigeria is Lars Lagerback and he was a short term barely 3 months coach. He then went on to do well with Iceland. There is a proven track record of bad foreign coaches getting the Nigerian head coach role.

Nigeria should get to a point that the failure of a local coach doesn't necessitate the hiring of a foreign coach. We should sink or swim with our own. My goodness, it's 2024. Nigeria as still stands is still a slave coast. A big portion of our people are slaves. I hate to say this, but it is the sad truth.

Just like Belgium, who are ranked 4th in the world and whose team is loaded with more talent than ours. Slaves indeed. The people who see these things through skin colour and nationality are the slaves.

While I wouldn't go as far at using slavery language, the analogy with Belgium makes no sense. Have Martinez and Tedesco been treated better than local managers such as Wilmots? We can have foreign managers but we should hold offer them the same relative conditions and hold them to the same standards as the local managers.

Wilmots - £55,000 per month
Martinez - £220,000 per month.

Does this make Belgians slaves?

Nope. Because we have seen Vincent Kompany, a Belgian, earn €5 million a year as a manager with Anderlecht, a Belgian club. It is obvious thar Belgians wouldn't just offer a lower wage to a manager simply because he is Belgian - Nigeria is different.

[Cellular]

Surely there must be ONE EXAMPLE from the Global World of Sports that you can cite?

What was found wanting in the US is ACCESS for minorities. Do you know what access means? Do you understand the difference between ACCESS and HIRING?

The NFL reformed its system IMPROVE ACCESS. But nowhere in the NFL does anyone use open invitation of applications from all and sundry.

Nobody in the global world of sports uses open application process for hiring coaches.

What you have proposed is frankly a non-starter...If you went to any conference and presented it as a model for sports teams to adopt, you'd be laughed off the stage!

Nna I tire for you. We all (most) recognize that the hiring process is flawed. There's a bias. And something needs to be done to improve access. It starts with how do you get more minorities to be considered for a job. The application process must be equitable. You don't hire a recruiter who does not have a diverse reach and ask them to help you hire a candidate.
The issue when you talk about EQUITY begins with being able to identify a larger talent pool.

You have no idea how the NFL hiring process (management and coaching) goes. The NFL has identified that it has a problem. They have even gone as far as having a coaching intern pathway directed at HCBUs, working with NFLPA to have more ex-players go into coaching and management. They recognize it is a good ol'boy network. Owners hire people they know... coaches also hire people they know. NFL coaching internships now mandate coaches retain minorities to provide a pathway into coaching.

Hiring of a minority candidate has to be deliberate. It is what EQUITY is all about. You have to go and find them. And if you can't find them, have them come and find you.

You have always held out a belief that it is a waste of time expanding the pool... that what is 'unknown' does not need to be known or is not good enough to be known or worthy to be known. Because if it was, it would have been known.

The old system of hiring only the people you know hasn't worked in providing opportunities for minorities. That is why it needs to be fixed.

[Bigpokey24]

can this thread be merged with that of Kongi's ? There are too many threads with the same title all over the front page of EN.