White captains on mostly black teams
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
so you are essentially looking for a payback and not justiceTonyTheTigerKiller wrote:You call it condoning racism, I call it criticizing injustice. Why must an overwhelmingly black group be led by a white persontxj wrote:We should not be condoning racism on CE. In either direction.
This thread is racist.
Here’s an anecdote. I asked for help on a project I was leading at work. The project group was pretty diverse. Anyway, this young, White intern, a college junior at the time, was assigned to help out. Right from the get go, he was behaving as if he was in charge. Of course, I told him, as subtly as I could, where to get off. Thereafter, he got with the program
Cheers.
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
But there are white Nigerians.oscar52 wrote:I sometimes thank God there are no whites in Nigeria. SA vs Spain, the only white SA player on the field is the captain (the coach looks east Indian). USA vs Ecuador U20, 9 of the 11 players are blacks, mixed, or Latino yet one of the two white players is the captain (the coach is white). I know its a team but those things send an unhealthy message that blacks cant lead. Not a good look.
Are they deserving to be captains?
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
Gosh, don’t you ever tire of talking just for the sake of it? What do you mean by payback? OK, the next time you go to work, try giving your supervisor an assignment and see how well it goes downjette1 wrote:so you are essentially looking for a payback and not justiceTonyTheTigerKiller wrote:You call it condoning racism, I call it criticizing injustice. Why must an overwhelmingly black group be led by a white persontxj wrote:We should not be condoning racism on CE. In either direction.
This thread is racist.
Here’s an anecdote. I asked for help on a project I was leading at work. The project group was pretty diverse. Anyway, this young, White intern, a college junior at the time, was assigned to help out. Right from the get go, he was behaving as if he was in charge. Of course, I told him, as subtly as I could, where to get off. Thereafter, he got with the program
Cheers.
Cheers.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
Yes after paying their dues or having leadership qualities not because an head coach thinks a white person should be. I am not against whites or making whites captain of mostly black teams, just making sure its not some implicit bias because the coaches are usually white in those cases or Asian.ohenhen1 wrote:But there are white Nigerians.oscar52 wrote:I sometimes thank God there are no whites in Nigeria. SA vs Spain, the only white SA player on the field is the captain (the coach looks east Indian). USA vs Ecuador U20, 9 of the 11 players are blacks, mixed, or Latino yet one of the two white players is the captain (the coach is white). I know its a team but those things send an unhealthy message that blacks cant lead. Not a good look.
Are they deserving to be captains?
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
The South African captain has played for them for donkey years. I think she used to play as far back as Mercy Akide's era. The real question you should be asking is why our team the Super Falcons is being coached by a washed up European coach??? Another question is why are CAF and other African FAs silent on blatant biased officiating at the expense of African teams in FIFA competitions? This ish has been going on since the 80s FFS. Abeg chop rice leave stone jare.
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
These issues are often related, you allow bias in one area it shows up in another.bret- hart wrote:The South African captain has played for them for donkey years. I think she used to play as far back as Mercy Akide's era. The real question you should be asking is why our team the Super Falcons is being coached by a washed up European coach??? Another question is why are CAF and other African FAs silent on blatant biased officiating at the expense of African teams in FIFA competitions? This ish has been going on since the 80s FFS. Abeg chop rice leave stone jare.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
jette1 wrote:since you live in sa why are there no white football players in the team but oneakamoke wrote:I live in SA and follow the Banyana Banyana team and Janine van Wyk is the deserved captain of the team, everything else is just looking for trouble when there isnt one. Just like there is a black Captain of the South African mostly white team...keeping it moving ->
Probably majority white SA women play netball (& cricket/hockey) instead of football or rugby (& basketball/handball). The world ranking of netball team is higher than the football team. Team sports in SA that are dominated by blacks are still in the developing stage including Soccer.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
The fact that certain individuals are calling this thread racist confirms the inferiority complex lots of blacks/Africans suffer. Even calling out a slight threat of white supremacy makes certain folks uncomfortable.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
We are living with a nation of 150 million blacks employing a white foreign coach to manage her national team.goke313 wrote:The fact that certain individuals are calling this thread racist confirms the inferiority complex lots of blacks/Africans suffer. Even calling out a slight threat of white supremacy makes certain folks uncomfortable.
You are a citizen of that country!
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
That's a lazy and ridiculous argument. Criticizing a criticism justifies the original criticism?goke313 wrote:The fact that certain individuals are calling this thread racist confirms the inferiority complex lots of blacks/Africans suffer. Even calling out a slight threat of white supremacy makes certain folks uncomfortable.
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?
Is that also injustice.
Is that also injustice.
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
Rawlings wrote:What do u expect when a country of 150 million blacks employs a white coach to manage their national team?
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
Familiarity with the way things work in this world of White privilege suggests that only the most competent of blacks would captain a white dominated team. I know it took a lot of painstaking effort on your part to dig out the fact that Italy has a black captain. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to come up with another situation like that. On the other hand, the share preponderance of white led, black dominated teams does reek of injusticetxj wrote:So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?
Is that also injustice.
Cheers.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
So it’s now about preponderance of teams?TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:Familiarity with the way things work in this world of White privilege suggests that only the most competent of blacks would captain a white dominated team. I know it took a lot of painstaking effort on your part to dig out the fact that Italy has a black captain. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to come up with another situation like that. On the other hand, the share preponderance of white led, black dominated teams does reek of injusticetxj wrote:So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?
Is that also injustice.
Cheers.
Pray what facts exactly support this theory of preponderance?
Btw, it doesn’t take painstaking effort to watch the WC and to see that the Italian captain is black.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
It would have been nice if you had a logical and relevant response instead of this rather dull rhetorictxj wrote:So it’s now about preponderance of teams?TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:Familiarity with the way things work in this world of White privilege suggests that only the most competent of blacks would captain a white dominated team. I know it took a lot of painstaking effort on your part to dig out the fact that Italy has a black captain. I dare say you’d be hard pressed to come up with another situation like that. On the other hand, the share preponderance of white led, black dominated teams does reek of injusticetxj wrote:So what do you say about Gama, the only black player in the Italian team and their team captain?
Is that also injustice.
Cheers.
Pray what facts exactly support this theory of preponderance?
Btw, it doesn’t take painstaking effort to watch the WC and to see that the Italian captain is black.
Cheers.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
I know you’d love nothing more than to detract from the substance of this discussion and make it subjective. A proper response to your question would be, for all the competent white captains you can identify, how do you know there isn’t a more competent black person? Don’t bother to answer that because it is rhetorical and just like your question, irrelevant. The only relevant thing in this discussion is the fact that in all walks of life, wherever you have a group of black people with at least one white person, the white person tends to be selected as the leader of the group. Now if you want to dispute that fact, by all means, do so in a logical and relevant manner. Neither you nor I are familiar with the qualities of all white captains in the world so, don’t ask me stupid and subjective questions about white captainsohenhen1 wrote:Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.
Cheers.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.
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Re: White captains on mostly black teams
What I find myself wondering is if there are any issues of prejudice and racism which you wouldn’t want to avoid. You’ve always come across as a “don’t rock the boat” kind of guy. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with this kind of topic doesn’t invalidate the legitimacy of the topic. Avoid it if you must but there’s nothing you can do to preempt those who are interested in the topic from engaging in its discussionakamoke wrote:Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.
Cheers.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
I won't say the eventual captain didn't deserve it overall, but remember when Jerome Boateng an outfield player was overlooked for the goalkeeper Manuel Neuer?ohenhen1 wrote:Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
kalani JR wrote:I won't say the eventual captain didn't deserve it overall, but remember when Jerome Boateng an outfield player was overlooked for the goalkeeper Manuel Neuer?ohenhen1 wrote:Give us names of white captains that didnt deserve to be captain or have the respect of his or her team mates.
I do not know the full reason for this decision, but just on the basis of seniority alone, Neuer made his debut ahead of Boateng.
Form is temporary; Class is Permanent!
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Liverpool, European Champions 2005.
We watched this very boring video, 500 times, of Sacchi doing defensive drills, using sticks and without the ball, with Maldini, Baresi and Albertini. We used to think before then that if the other players are better, you have to lose. After that we learned anything is possible – you can beat better teams by using tactics." Jurgen Klopp
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:What I find myself wondering is if there are any issues of prejudice and racism which you wouldn’t want to avoid. You’ve always come across as a “don’t rock the boat” kind of guy. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with this kind of topic doesn’t invalidate the legitimacy of the topic. Avoid it if you must but there’s nothing you can do to preempt those who are interested in the topic from engaging in its discussionakamoke wrote:Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.
Cheers.
Re: White captains on mostly black teams
As much as you are off tangent on the topic at hand, you also miss the mark in your judgement of my being.TonyTheTigerKiller wrote:What I find myself wondering is if there are any issues of prejudice and racism which you wouldn’t want to avoid. You’ve always come across as a “don’t rock the boat” kind of guy. The fact that you’re uncomfortable with this kind of topic doesn’t invalidate the legitimacy of the topic. Avoid it if you must but there’s nothing you can do to preempt those who are interested in the topic from engaging in its discussionakamoke wrote:Guys this is much ado about nothing
Van Wyck has been a stellar member of the women's team for a long time so her being captain was a no brainer. Before her, there have been a series of black women captain of the Banyana team, it will be a travesty to deny Van Wyck the captaincy simply because she is white. We all have to move away from these insecurities and victim mentality and focus on REAL legitimate issues of prejudice and racism, of which this is not one of them.
Cheers.
If you know me well you will know that I rock the boat very well with my Afrikaans "friends" here in SA, including my employers. When arguing these points, I take emotions out of the equation and argue based on FACTS not feelings, else I wont be taken seriously, this is what experience teaches you.
The difference here is I do not cry foul when there is no legitimate reason to do so
Nothing uncomfortable about talking about institutional racism or prejudice, its just than in this case Van Wyck was always the obvious captain , one may even argue that it took so long considering her long service over 14 yrs and she only recently became captain having earned like 150 caps
If my rather calm approach to life, especially in this particular case is seen as "don't rock the boat", well, to each his own I guess
For my sceptical Nigerian Friends : Pessimism is great because you are either always right or pleasantly surprised.