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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 7:49 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
Rawlings wrote:

"But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin"
Making my point for me. (check my other post)
We all agree it is difficult for the black man, but if we don't try we will never know


:roll: are you sure you read the article? Please go back and read the entire thing. here is another excerpt.

Quote:
It would have been easy to give up and move into the comfort of the television studio or the security of obscurity. But Campbell’s desire didn’t diminish. “People may think that I just want to manage in the Premier League but I’m prepared to go to a non-league club,” he told The Guardian in 2017. “If they can’t pay me a salary just pay me a win bonus. I’m up for that … I’m itching to start, I just need a chance.

That chance didn’t come and Campbell’s frustration only grew as his former England teammates eased into management. Gary Neville went to Valencia, Steven Gerrard found himself at Rangers and Frank Lampard got the Derby gig. All three appointed before Campbell; all three younger than Campbell; all three hired by big clubs.

But of all the appointments, it was that of Joey Barton at League One Fleetwood which really rubbed salt into the wound. Barton, a player who achieved only a fraction of what Campbell did and someone twice as divisive had been given his first managerial job within months of retiring.


Yes I did. Did u read mine?
Like I already said, we (blacks) have it a lot more difficult, but that's no excuse.
    "Campbell’s frustration only grew as his former England teammates eased into management"
We tend to think we can take the same path as Oyibo and succeed.
We have to tread our own course, because of how the system is set up against us.
Even in our own countries - 99.9% black - it's easier for an Oyibo coach, how much more in their country

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:01 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Lampard is my guy but he messed up and missed the entire crux of Raheem's point. I will chalk it up to white guilt which is why he was naively defensive and missed out on an opportunity to make a positive contribution towards bridging the racism gap for black coaches in England.

The obvious crux of the matter which Lampard knows but avoided (likely because he knows that on merit he did not deserve the Chelsea job but was a beneficiary of unique circumstances falling his way) is the white man has a short cut to the top whereas a person of color has to grind through every level which increases the difficulty of success. If there are 100 staircases and Ashley Cole starts from staircase 1 compared to say Lampard who used an elevator to bypass staircase 1 through 70 to begin his journey at staircase 71 who has the greater chance of getting to 100? That is the bottomline of Raheem's point and he is correct. It had nothing to do with 'hardwork'. Ashley Cole can work as hard as he wants as Chelsea's youth team coach but unless his next job is either a top tier/ promising Championship club (a la Lampard) or a low level EPL club, he will suffer and smile for years without any dreams of getting to the EPL level. The black guy must prove himself on a very bad team and usually at the lowest level of football divisions because Blacks are not afforded the 'elevator' opportunity that whites enjoy which allows them to bypass the lower level grind. And because there are almost no blacks even at the Championship level of coaching, when EPL jobs open up, they can conveniently say that there are no qualified blacks and by default consider only whites. The solution: put more of the black legends in elevators (enjoyed by the Lampard's and Gerrad's) and you will see more qualified black candidates for EPL coaching consideration.



Thanks for spelling the situation out with the very apt staircase analogy. You are spot on. Although one could say Lamps is doing okay (just) at Chelsea, the fact remains that he got the chance.

He didn't start as an assistant anywhere (Like Terry is doing now) and not as a youth coach (Cole).

We want our black [ex]footballers to be given such opportunities too.

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 8:18 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
Rawlings wrote:

"But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin"
Making my point for me. (check my other post)
We all agree it is difficult for the black man, but if we don't try we will never know


:roll: are you sure you read the article? Please go back and read the entire thing. here is another excerpt.

Quote:
It would have been easy to give up and move into the comfort of the television studio or the security of obscurity. But Campbell’s desire didn’t diminish. “People may think that I just want to manage in the Premier League but I’m prepared to go to a non-league club,” he told The Guardian in 2017. “If they can’t pay me a salary just pay me a win bonus. I’m up for that … I’m itching to start, I just need a chance.

That chance didn’t come and Campbell’s frustration only grew as his former England teammates eased into management. Gary Neville went to Valencia, Steven Gerrard found himself at Rangers and Frank Lampard got the Derby gig. All three appointed before Campbell; all three younger than Campbell; all three hired by big clubs.

But of all the appointments, it was that of Joey Barton at League One Fleetwood which really rubbed salt into the wound. Barton, a player who achieved only a fraction of what Campbell did and someone twice as divisive had been given his first managerial job within months of retiring.


Imagine, even trouble maker Joey Barton got a chance...this ish is ridiculous!

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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2020 10:54 pm 
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maceo4 wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
Rawlings wrote:

"But he feared he wouldn’t get an opportunity due to the colour of his skin"
Making my point for me. (check my other post)
We all agree it is difficult for the black man, but if we don't try we will never know


:roll: are you sure you read the article? Please go back and read the entire thing. here is another excerpt.

Quote:
It would have been easy to give up and move into the comfort of the television studio or the security of obscurity. But Campbell’s desire didn’t diminish. “People may think that I just want to manage in the Premier League but I’m prepared to go to a non-league club,” he told The Guardian in 2017. “If they can’t pay me a salary just pay me a win bonus. I’m up for that … I’m itching to start, I just need a chance.

That chance didn’t come and Campbell’s frustration only grew as his former England teammates eased into management. Gary Neville went to Valencia, Steven Gerrard found himself at Rangers and Frank Lampard got the Derby gig. All three appointed before Campbell; all three younger than Campbell; all three hired by big clubs.

But of all the appointments, it was that of Joey Barton at League One Fleetwood which really rubbed salt into the wound. Barton, a player who achieved only a fraction of what Campbell did and someone twice as divisive had been given his first managerial job within months of retiring.


Imagine, even trouble maker Joey Barton got a chance...this ish is ridiculous!


Like I stated, I read yours, but u do not read mine :mad:
    .....he told The Guardian in 2017.
I said they (blacks) should go for it when they are famous, i.e. after they quit
Campbell announced his retirement from football in May 2012.
It was only in 2017, that he was looking for a chance at a non-league club.
In 2012-2014, many small teams would have given him a chance, but he chose to stay as "whatever he was" at Arsenal.
Lampard got his first shot with Derby in the championship
Being BLACK, it would have been tough for Campbell to get a championship side in 2012-2014
However, he could have got a div 2 or 3 side to start.

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:17 am 
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Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


Guess everyone is beginning to know Marko. When I said for years that he is one of the dumbest forumers in the history of the internet, you guys said I was being too harsh.



I am wondering about this Marko too. Danfo, you're lucky you abstain from R'nR
According to Marko,
1. Obama and his people were/are about to be indicted for crimes against Candidate Trump.
2. Bill Gates owns the patent to coronaviruses, and he has the vaccine.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Kaiii!!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 1:49 am 
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danfo driver wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


Guess everyone is beginning to know Marko. When I said for years that he is one of the dumbest forumers in the history of the internet, you guys said I was being too harsh.



I am wondering about this Marko too. Danfo, you're lucky you abstain from R'nR
According to Marko,
1. Obama and his people were/are about to be indicted for crimes against Candidate Trump.
2. Bill Gates owns the patent to coronaviruses, and he has the vaccine.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Kaiii!!


It's worse than that. He's convinced Obama runs a Hollywood pedophile ring with George Clooney where they traffic kids on yachts and Trump/Michael Flynn are about to expose it.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 2:25 am 
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kalani JR wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
Chief Ogbunigwe wrote:
danfo driver wrote:
theYemster wrote:
marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!

Clearly the whole point is lost on you.


Guess everyone is beginning to know Marko. When I said for years that he is one of the dumbest forumers in the history of the internet, you guys said I was being too harsh.



I am wondering about this Marko too. Danfo, you're lucky you abstain from R'nR
According to Marko,
1. Obama and his people were/are about to be indicted for crimes against Candidate Trump.
2. Bill Gates owns the patent to coronaviruses, and he has the vaccine.


:rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: :rotf: Kaiii!!


It's worse than that. He's convinced Obama runs a Hollywood pedophile ring with George Clooney where they traffic kids on yachts and Trump/Michael Flynn are about to expose it.


wow! he has lost his marbles!

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 3:01 am 
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Rawlings wrote:

Like I stated, I read yours, but u do not read mine :mad:
    .....he told The Guardian in 2017.
I said they (blacks) should go for it when they are famous, i.e. after they quit
Campbell announced his retirement from football in May 2012.
It was only in 2017, that he was looking for a chance at a non-league club.
In 2012-2014, many small teams would have given him a chance, but he chose to stay as "whatever he was" at Arsenal.
Lampard got his first shot with Derby in the championship
Being BLACK, it would have been tough for Campbell to get a championship side in 2012-2014
However, he could have got a div 2 or 3 side to start.


There is nothing that indicates that he was looking for just a championship job in 2012-2014. And there is nothing to suggest anyone would have given him a chance in 2012 either. How many black coaches have there been in all the flights of football?? That is the bloody point Sterling is making!

Do you understand what it takes to be a manager??? It takes 2-4 years earning your coaching badges, which Sol Campbell did right after he retired. So back in 2012-2014, he was earning his badges! The same kind that the likes of Lampard and Gerrard got. Just like Sol campbell was an assistant at Arsenal, so was Gerrard at Liverpool and went straight from that to Rangers! Likewise, Lampard went from Derby to Chelsea!!! So why didnt Sole Campbell or Ashley Cole follow suit and get an opportunity like those two? The likes of Garret Southgate was able to coach in the premiership without any damn badges.

And NO it was not only in 2017 that he woke up and started looking for a chance at a non-league club :roll: That is only when he decided to vocalize his frustration! He was looking for jobs through agents in the background for years, which is the normal process, and wasn't getting anywhere (what a shocker) while a clown like Joey Barton was getting a job :roll:

Quote:
I did it in a passive way, taking to agents working behind the scenes to try and get in and it didn’t work, so maybe I should have been a bit more out there seven years ago when I started looking into coaching.

“It hasn’t happened for me, the doors are not opening, so I am trying a different approach.

“I want to work as a coach in any capacity. I am open, I’m looking and if it doesn’t happen as a manager, I’m happy to go into a club two days a week to develop players and pass on my knowledge.

“If something comes along as a manager, I will look at it, but I am happy to go into the game at whatever level I need to.”


https://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth ... ve-chance/

It's people like you that look for every opportunity to explain away discrimination.

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He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:17 am 
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metalalloy wrote:
Rawlings wrote:

Like I stated, I read yours, but u do not read mine :mad:
    .....he told The Guardian in 2017.
I said they (blacks) should go for it when they are famous, i.e. after they quit
Campbell announced his retirement from football in May 2012.
It was only in 2017, that he was looking for a chance at a non-league club.
In 2012-2014, many small teams would have given him a chance, but he chose to stay as "whatever he was" at Arsenal.
Lampard got his first shot with Derby in the championship
Being BLACK, it would have been tough for Campbell to get a championship side in 2012-2014
However, he could have got a div 2 or 3 side to start.


There is nothing that indicates that he was looking for just a championship job in 2012-2014. And there is nothing to suggest anyone would have given him a chance in 2012 either. How many black coaches have there been in all the flights of football?? That is the bloody point Sterling is making!

Do you understand what it takes to be a manager??? It takes 2-4 years earning your coaching badges, which Sol Campbell did right after he retired. So back in 2012-2014, he was earning his badges! The same kind that the likes of Lampard and Gerrard got. Just like Sol campbell was an assistant at Arsenal, so was Gerrard at Liverpool and went straight from that to Rangers! Likewise, Lampard went from Derby to Chelsea!!! So why didnt Sole Campbell or Ashley Cole follow suit and get an opportunity like those two? The likes of Garret Southgate was able to coach in the premiership without any damn badges.

And NO it was not only in 2017 that he woke up and started looking for a chance at a non-league club :roll: That is only when he decided to vocalize his frustration! He was looking for jobs through agents in the background for years, which is the normal process, and wasn't getting anywhere (what a shocker) while a clown like Joey Barton was getting a job :roll:

Quote:
I did it in a passive way, taking to agents working behind the scenes to try and get in and it didn’t work, so maybe I should have been a bit more out there seven years ago when I started looking into coaching.

“It hasn’t happened for me, the doors are not opening, so I am trying a different approach.

“I want to work as a coach in any capacity. I am open, I’m looking and if it doesn’t happen as a manager, I’m happy to go into a club two days a week to develop players and pass on my knowledge.

“If something comes along as a manager, I will look at it, but I am happy to go into the game at whatever level I need to.”


https://www.planetfootball.com/in-depth ... ve-chance/

It's people like you that look for every opportunity to explain away discrimination.


Looks like we are going in circles since u are failing to read.
Anyway, we can agree on this, which I already wrote...
Even in Africa, we prefer Oyibo coaches to our own
So, to think that a black will get it as easy as a white in a whiteman's country is delusional

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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2020 5:03 pm 
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He is English. He is looking for an equal opportunity in his country. You are not making any sense.

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Roy Keane: ITV 02/25/14

He says that we are currently "brainwashed" into believing that the Premier League is the best competition in the world, and that we are now a long way off dominating the Champions League again.
Gary Neville: Mirror: 12/23/14

I think Spain’s by far the best league.
Scholes. UK Guardian 9/6/16


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:22 pm 
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Lets develop our leagues in Africa! Then we can hire our own! We do have a lot of white coaches in Africa, how do we explain this? White privilege works in Africa as well?

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 5:52 pm 
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marko wrote:
Lets develop our leagues in Africa! Then we can hire our own! We do have a lot of white coaches in Africa, how do we explain this? White privilege works in Africa as well?

Ha it works in Africa oooh,go and apply for a job in nigeria and a white man come and apply for that same job with less experience than you.


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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:45 pm 
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green4life wrote:
Lampard is my guy but he messed up and missed the entire crux of Raheem's point. I will chalk it up to white guilt which is why he was naively defensive and missed out on an opportunity to make a positive contribution towards bridging the racism gap for black coaches in England.

The obvious crux of the matter which Lampard knows but avoided (likely because he knows that on merit he did not deserve the Chelsea job but was a beneficiary of unique circumstances falling his way) is the white man has a short cut to the top whereas a person of color has to grind through every level which increases the difficulty of success. If there are 100 staircases and Ashley Cole starts from staircase 1 compared to say Lampard who used an elevator to bypass staircase 1 through 70 to begin his journey at staircase 71 who has the greater chance of getting to 100? That is the bottomline of Raheem's point and he is correct. It had nothing to do with 'hardwork'. Ashley Cole can work as hard as he wants as Chelsea's youth team coach but unless his next job is either a top tier/ promising Championship club (a la Lampard) or a low level EPL club, he will suffer and smile for years without any dreams of getting to the EPL level. The black guy must prove himself on a very bad team and usually at the lowest level of football divisions because Blacks are not afforded the 'elevator' opportunity that whites enjoy which allows them to bypass the lower level grind. And because there are almost no blacks even at the Championship level of coaching, when EPL jobs open up, they can conveniently say that there are no qualified blacks and by default consider only whites. The solution: put more of the black legends in elevators (enjoyed by the Lampard's and Gerrad's) and you will see more qualified black candidates for EPL coaching consideration.


KPOM!

One misguided native was on RnR talking about being against affirmative action like they were giving spots to unqualified black folks. The damn native didn't know that without a concerted effort at diversity and providing opportunities for minorities, that minorities will be left out..the employment market is still largely man-know-man especially in high-level jobs.

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PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2020 6:54 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
He is English. He is looking for an equal opportunity in his country. You are not making any sense.


Frankly, I think the Player's Association and the NFLPA in the US should make it a negotiation priority to seek more managerial/coaching opportunities for their members especially the minorities.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 8:38 am 
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Like i said, how can we explain white privilege in Africa? how can European 3rd rate coaches come to Africa, get paid 30,000 USD a month, live in their home countries and we accept it on this forum, Swedish coach Lagerback came to Nigeria with a power point slide and got a 300,000 6 months contract and refused to renew it after the shambles of that world cup, yes there is racism is Europe, it is evident and yes it is overt, Raheem Sterling has a point, Lampard did not get his job based on his CV, yes we know that, There is nothing about racism that has not been discussed on this forum, what do we do about it? is there anything stopping Africa from developing our league to European / South American standards ? considering the amounts of money they loot from the continent? imagine if we just had a world class league in Africa, we can easily hire all these black European coaches like Sol Campbell and the likes, give them a chance to excel and let people notice their abilities, just the same way Samson Sia Sia showed his coaching abilities on the world stage, what do we do instead, we hire European journey men in Africa, pay them large salaries and dont give our fellow black coaches the same opportunities, how many black people coach European national teams? its time we need to start building inwards, we can do it, time for us to stop playing the victim, Africa should lead the charge!

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:04 pm 
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I feel there is certainty a bias, the stats show a bias. However, reading into every individual situation can be problematic, despite the fact that we may catch a glimpse into some drivers for the issue. I mean Henry has had several opportunities despite being a terrible coach, these are based on his popularity not his ability.

For example, if Ljungberg was black and Arteta got the HC job at Arsenal, it would have been pinned on systemic racism, but because he is white it wasn't. I guess one issue is, is there a way to isolate issues that are due to systemic racism from issues that are due to lack of interest, discipline, or capability? so as not to pursue an incorrect solution.

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Molue Conductor wrote:
I feel there is certainty a bias, the stats show a bias. However, reading into every individual situation can be problematic, despite the fact that we may catch a glimpse into some drivers for the issue. I mean Henry has had several opportunities despite being a terrible coach, these are based on his popularity not his ability.

For example, if Ljungberg was black and Arteta got the HC job at Arsenal, it would have been pinned on systemic racism, but because he is white it wasn't. I guess one issue is, is there a way to isolate issues that are due to systemic racism from issues that are due to lack of interest, discipline, or capability? so as not to pursue an incorrect solution.


how many ex- footballers have turned out to be good coaches? a good career in football does not translate into a successful coaching career, yes a lot needs to be done to redress the balances, yes the Likes of Lampard, Gerrard did not get the job on their CV, same way Gary Neville turned out to be a hopeless coach considering how he got the job, Ruud Gullit had a decent coaching career, Rijkaard had a brilliant coaching career as well but faded into obscurity ( where is he today ) Thierry Henry coaching career has not exactly been good but must say the club he coached were not good either

out of the black ex-premiership players, who would you say has the credentials to be a top coach?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:10 pm 
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metalalloy wrote:
He is English. He is looking for an equal opportunity in his country. You are not making any sense.


Many Nigerian (black) coaches, in Nigeria, are looking for equal opportunities in their country; NFA prefers Oyibo coach.
If we don't even trust our own, how do u expect Oyibo to trust their own blacks?

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:53 pm 
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Rawlings wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
He is English. He is looking for an equal opportunity in his country. You are not making any sense.


Many Nigerian (black) coaches, in Nigeria, are looking for equal opportunities in their country; NFA prefers Oyibo coach.
If we don't even trust our own, how do u expect Oyibo to trust their own blacks?


Charity begins at home

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PostPosted: Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:40 pm 
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marko wrote:
Rawlings wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
He is English. He is looking for an equal opportunity in his country. You are not making any sense.


Many Nigerian (black) coaches, in Nigeria, are looking for equal opportunities in their country; NFA prefers Oyibo coach.
If we don't even trust our own, how do u expect Oyibo to trust their own blacks?


Charity begins at home


You guys don't think you are being a bit unfair here? NFF hires mainly Nigerians (retired internationals) for youth teams and has hired Nigerians for the top coaching job in the country. Argument could be they treat their own worse in those positions, and expect them to suffer their incompetence but do try to give the oyinbo coaches more of what they desire. But at the end of the day there are only a few of these National positions, but it seems that's the only position these guys are waiting out for. I guess the local league is not attractive enough for them to work in? All comes down to the development of our game/league back home, if we had things working properly it would attract more of our retired players to develop their CVs locally and expand to other African countries before ever having to consider Europe.

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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:44 am 
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marko wrote:
Lampard is actually a decent coach! in comparison to Ole Gunnar! yes he was born into a footballing family, things were certainly easier to jump into management, but at least, he is proving himself!


I would like to disagree with that.
I actually think if Ole was given Chelsea he would be no different to Lamps
I don't see how much different they are, Chelsea i believe is a team that was capable of chasing after Liverpool.

Lampard, Gerard, Ole, Arteta, all are the same, they just go about their stuff in different ways.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 3:09 am 
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maceo4 wrote:
marko wrote:
Rawlings wrote:
metalalloy wrote:
He is English. He is looking for an equal opportunity in his country. You are not making any sense.


Many Nigerian (black) coaches, in Nigeria, are looking for equal opportunities in their country; NFA prefers Oyibo coach.
If we don't even trust our own, how do u expect Oyibo to trust their own blacks?


Charity begins at home


You guys don't think you are being a bit unfair here? NFF hires mainly Nigerians (retired internationals) for youth teams and has hired Nigerians for the top coaching job in the country. Argument could be they treat their own worse in those positions, and expect them to suffer their incompetence but do try to give the oyinbo coaches more of what they desire. But at the end of the day there are only a few of these National positions, but it seems that's the only position these guys are waiting out for. I guess the local league is not attractive enough for them to work in? All comes down to the development of our game/league back home, if we had things working properly it would attract more of our retired players to develop their CVs locally and expand to other African countries before ever having to consider Europe.


Yeah, they have done poorly with supporting local coaches but they have not been hesitant to hire them especially when compared to the WOWOs in Ghana, CIV and Cameroon.


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PostPosted: Tue Jun 30, 2020 7:04 am 
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On Lampards case I think it is more a case of nepotism, he got his first job based on recommendation by his Uncle and he took that opportunity.
It is sometimes easier for kids of ex-players, Troy Deeney just drops his kids at Watford academy are you going to question him? Most kids fight tooth and nail with parents travelling miles to get a sniff of that academy. What those kids now choose to do with it is up to them.

In the industry we work in our kids stand a better chance than most.

On Steven Gerard a bit like John Barnes, Kenny Dalglish brought him in at Celtic. Started signing oldies like Ian Wright. A lot of them are now in Academy coaching so I think change will come

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