The Arsenal FC-Related News & Developments for 2016/2017

[tolahs]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

None of those 2 options with respect works for us.
The structure around AW ain't the issue - he doesn't delegate like SAF did with that Portuguese coach - SAF used to hire top coaches in their own right to be his assistant for short periods - there was also the former Glasgow Rangers & Scotland coach Smith.
We need tactical versatility with pride in team defense - you can see we don't practice tackling. That toughens your mentality,
The other thing is lee Dixon said on Weds night that AW has lost the locker room - true or not - we ain't a team on the pitch.
We've to help AW help himself - relieve him of his duties

[Cally]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

None of those 2 options with respect works for us.
The structure around AW ain't the issue - he doesn't delegate like SAF did with that Portuguese coach - SAF used to hire top coaches in their own right to be his assistant for short periods - there was also the former Glasgow Rangers & Scotland coach Smith.
We need tactical versatility with pride in team defense - you can see we don't practice tackling. That toughens your mentality,
The other thing is lee Dixon said on Weds night that AW has lost the locker room - true or not - we ain't a team on the pitch.
We've to help AW help himself - relieve him of his duties

This is the point that I noticed myself that finally drove the nail in for me. The body language smacks of total lack of commitment to the coach. The way the players were having a go at each other during the Bayern game was schoolboy stuff. It felt like a bunch of enemies were playing on the same team. Arsene's biggest strength has become his biggest failure. No more team togetherness and spirit. I can't see any reason to be optimistic.

[realtrouble]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

you're being sentimental. With the amount of money AW is earning, and the power and clout he has, it is his own fault that he hasn't leveraged those to get him what he needs to succeed. It's not that he hasn't succeeded before, and therefore doesn't know what it takes to succeed. Why could he not come up a few years back and say, listen, I need competent people to scout, recruit talent, etc. Instead, he was busy doing bad belle against those who could question his authority.

Sorry, "safest hands" means same old every year. Let's become a yoyo club like Chelsea, Man U or the current Man City, who will win the crown every few years.

Interesting....do you think Arsenal have the kind of money the likes of Manure, Shitty and Chelsea have to throw at it?

It has been 3 years since SAF left, in that time Manure have crashed out of the CL, are on their third manager, thrown big money at Falcao, Martial, Pogba, Zlatan etc etc...and where are they today behind Arsenal in the table and not in the CL.

It is you guys who are being sentimental.

Skylolo, Arsenal has money and have spent big in the past three years, they have spent more than £250 million. I have no interest in attacking a great Arsenal legend and would rather wait to the end of the season.

[Coach]

@Sky, it depends how one defines safety. Finishing in the glorious top 4 and earning an invitation to be disgraced in due course, Wenger has shown great consistency in both pursuits. And for that shame, a bag of silver. As far as safety of the squad be concerned, when last did Beloved retain a star in their prime? The moment potential is reached, they quit the yellow brick road and get real. The team is seldom strengthened rather scrambling to replace what it lost. Those occasions where it is, lest one forget, even the Mujaha declared this squad complete, are squandered by sheer incompetence. Wenger is no longer relevant as far as gold be concerned, but, agreed, he has a knack of photobombing victory poses. #topfourisatrophy.

[kofi86]

@Sky, it depends how one defines safety. Finishing in the glorious top 4 and earning an invitation to be disgraced in due course, Wenger has shown great consistency in both pursuits. And for that shame, a bag of silver. As far as safety of the squad be concerned, when last did Beloved retain a star in their prime? The moment potential is reached, they quit the yellow brick road and get real. The team is seldom strengthened rather scrambling to replace what it lost. Those occasions where it is, lest one forget, even the Mujaha declared this squad complete, are squandered by sheer incompetence. Wenger is no longer relevant as far as gold be concerned, but, agreed, he has a knack of photobombing victory poses. #topfourisatrophy.

There was an interesting article in a German newspaper before the game against Bayern. Not only did it say that the thought of Arsenal knocking Bayern out is utterly absurd, but also that Wenger is not a relict of past times, but a symbol of direction football is headed. That clubs are becoming franchises, acting like business and thus making money is the #1 priority. And Wenger guarantees that money (my short summary of the article)

[Coach]

^Absolutely. Wengerism.

[pajimoh]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

[Blukyt]

The personnel is good enough. It is the production team around them that is below par. This team is performing waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay below it capability. I can only remember 1 game this season where we played for 90mins. That was Chelsea. It's either 45 here, 60 there. These guys are not hungry enough. Put a different character on the touchline and watch them fly. They might not win but they will be up there.

[Gooner1]

Don't think Waffi is hiding.

If I know waffi, he is writing a long post on Arsenal and AW akin to a thesis.

I'm here and you of all people will know I will not put up with childish gloating from social media warriors who do not know the way to a stadium but make the most noise full of ignorance. The ones for whom I hold no respect and a load of contempt will be treated savagely and the ones I do respect will be engaged in a healthy debate.

I have been busy with my stadium groups and contributing to blogs about Wenger. I know this, yesterday saw even the most die hard Wenger say they now want change. Yes! Many hold the players responsible more but they also feel yesterday saw a group of players who acted in a very unprofessional manner. I have friends who went to the game, they all complained about one feature of that game. Arsenal players constantly at each other throats while the Bayern players just got on with it. Watch Mustafi have a go at a player, whilst Thiago runs past him, meanwhile his team mates are like statutes as the ball goes through all of them for Thiago to score the killer goal. Watch Sanchez have a go almost all game, even Oxlade joined in having a go. It was like that all game. It was just embarrassing. Wenger is the man in charge and he must take responsibility. The concern is, they saw a group of players who did not want to play with each other and they wonder if we will even get top 4.

Don't worry, Spurs will mess up for you guys to get top four and keep Wenger for another season

You still haven't answered the critics question and that I do you think the time is up for Wenger? Forget about the die hard fans, how about you?

I still believe in Wenger but it is not relevant now. He made mistakes but he is not far off being a winner of major trophies again. He just needs to change his approach to the system that made him so successful in the first place. But that's bye the bye. What is relevant now, are those who pay their money to go to the Emirates. They will make the call on Wenger if they want him to leave before the end of the season. Nobody else.

Wenger will make the call in May, if he does not do it before then.

of course you do, seems like you have found an air pocket on the sunken ship
we have been saying this for the past how many years that it will end this way, but you no gree
you have been proven wrong time and time again.....it was inevitable.....sorry

[kajifu]

Arsene Wenger says he will definitely be managing next season, whether at Arsenal "or somewhere else".

Wenger, 67, was speaking at the end of one of the most turbulent weeks of his two-decade tenure as Gunners boss.

After Wednesday's 5-1 Champions League defeat by Bayern Munich, several ex-players said they believed his time in charge was coming to an end.




The Frenchman's contract expires at the end of this season and he said he would decide on a new deal in March or April.

"No matter what happens I will manage for another season. Whether it's here or somewhere else, that is for sure," Wenger said on Friday.

"If I said March or April it is because I didn't know. I do not want to come back on that.

"I am used to the criticism. I think in life it's important to do what you think is right and all the rest is judgement. I am in a public job and I have to accept that, but I have to behave with my values
http://www.bbc.com/sport/football/39001868

[kajifu]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

[pajimoh]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

[Waffiman]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

I have been involved in debates and the consequences of this change. Many now seem to agree we will not be in the top 4 without Wenger for a few seasons at least, with no guarantees of a return. But the whole idea of change is to get better, but even those who are staunch advocates of change agree, finding someone to guarantee Wenger's results will be difficult, they even say in the short term at least, it is impossible to find anyone to do better given same resources. I thought the whole idea behind change is to get better.

Given the rumours about our players and what happened after the game, things will get worse. In case you are not aware, the deep lying dislike/hatred some of our players have for each spilled over, there was a massive fight in the dressing. Even the Bayern players had to come and help stop fights. I heard some staff even went after the players in disgust at their lack of professionalism. I am told by a good source that Bould was throwing bottles at the wall, when he realised he could not kick the lights out of a player he confronted. Also told, the British players went after Sanchez who they cannot stand with his superiority complex. Heard it became a straight Ox vs. Sanchez fight with the other stopping anyone who tried to interfere. The whole this is just crazy.

Now let us confront the realities of change. It means losing some of our best players, both young and old. It means dropping out of the top 4 and we have stadium debt to pay. It means being out of the top 4 for a few season because we do not have the money the other have, we also do not have an owner who will put his money. We also know, they will never sell to Usmanov. So where does that leave us.

There are rumours of Wenger being approached by PL clubs and clubs in Europe. So we also can seat back as even more player walk out the door with him. If this is the change you all want, it will be interesting to see how many of you will be supporting Arsenal if it happens. I hope it does, cos then we will know the real supporters.

[Chief Ogbunigwe]

Me I surrender. The Board, Wenger and Waffi can do whatever they like. I jus dey observe.

[pajimoh]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

I have been involved in debates and the consequences of this change. Many now seem to agree we will not be in the top 4 without Wenger for a few seasons at least, with no guarantees of a return. But the whole idea of change is to get better, but even those who are staunch advocates of change agree, finding someone to guarantee Wenger's results will be difficult, they even say in the short term at least, it is impossible to find anyone to do better given same resources. I thought the whole idea behind change is to get better.

Given the rumours about our players and what happened after the game, things will get worse. In case you are not aware, the deep lying dislike/hatred some of our players have for each spilled over, there was a massive fight in the dressing. Even the Bayern players had to come and help stop fights. I heard some staff even went after the players in disgust at their lack of professionalism. I am told by a good source that Bould was throwing bottles at the wall, when he realised he could not kick the lights out of a player he confronted. Also told, the British players went after Sanchez who they cannot stand with his superiority complex. Heard it became a straight Ox vs. Sanchez fight with the other stopping anyone who tried to interfere. The whole this is just crazy.

Now let us confront the realities of change. It means losing some of our best players, both young and old. It means dropping out of the top 4 and we have stadium debt to pay. It means being out of the top 4 for a few season because we do not have the money the other have, we also do not have an owner who will put his money. We also know, they will never sell to Usmanov. So where does that leave us.

There are rumours of Wenger being approached by PL clubs and clubs in Europe. So we also can seat back as even more player walk out the door with him. If this is the change you all want, it will be interesting to see how many of you will be supporting Arsenal if it happens. I hope it does, cos then we will know the real supporters.

If things have gotten this bad then you need to make the change. The team did not arrive at this point overnight and it is highly unlikely these players will just change overnight. There has to be a seismic shift for all concerned.
The change must happen. The field is infested, burn it all down and start again or you'll be managing the same problems

[Waffiman]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

My bro, Spuds asides, you know your beans. Please continue to educate. It is only those who are incapable of seeing the big picture that now use the exception are the norm. It is about intelligence and knowledge. Leicester we are told could do it why not Arsenal? Look at Leicester now. AM are having it really though, despite Barca and RM not being what they once were. Above all, Arsenal under Wenger when you look at resources, for wages and transfers, they have over achieved for the vast majority of the seasons they won nothing, met expectations and you might argue, so far this season, under achieving. I cannot wait for this brave new world without Wenger. I know and treasure what we have because I know my football to the core. I mean youth teams, Agents, Coaches, etc. etc. I understand these forces and their role to the very core.

For the first time in our club, Agents are now trying to get involved in team affairs with phones calls to other Directors, this happens at other clubs, never at Arsenal. But they smell an opportunity and they are in with their meddling. They have been firmly rebuffed and told where to go. But if they get in, your club is finished.

[Waffiman]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

I have been involved in debates and the consequences of this change. Many now seem to agree we will not be in the top 4 without Wenger for a few seasons at least, with no guarantees of a return. But the whole idea of change is to get better, but even those who are staunch advocates of change agree, finding someone to guarantee Wenger's results will be difficult, they even say in the short term at least, it is impossible to find anyone to do better given same resources. I thought the whole idea behind change is to get better.

Given the rumours about our players and what happened after the game, things will get worse. In case you are not aware, the deep lying dislike/hatred some of our players have for each spilled over, there was a massive fight in the dressing. Even the Bayern players had to come and help stop fights. I heard some staff even went after the players in disgust at their lack of professionalism. I am told by a good source that Bould was throwing bottles at the wall, when he realised he could not kick the lights out of a player he confronted. Also told, the British players went after Sanchez who they cannot stand with his superiority complex. Heard it became a straight Ox vs. Sanchez fight with the other stopping anyone who tried to interfere. The whole this is just crazy.

Now let us confront the realities of change. It means losing some of our best players, both young and old. It means dropping out of the top 4 and we have stadium debt to pay. It means being out of the top 4 for a few season because we do not have the money the other have, we also do not have an owner who will put his money. We also know, they will never sell to Usmanov. So where does that leave us.

There are rumours of Wenger being approached by PL clubs and clubs in Europe. So we also can seat back as even more player walk out the door with him. If this is the change you all want, it will be interesting to see how many of you will be supporting Arsenal if it happens. I hope it does, cos then we will know the real supporters.

If things have gotten this bad then you need to make the change. The team did not arrive at this point overnight and it is highly unlikely these players will just change overnight. There has to be a seismic shift for all concerned.
The change must happen. The field is infested, burn it all down and start again or you'll be managing the same problems

The club has worked hard to settle differences, there have been a lot of meetings and get togethers, but it seems there is this thing there amongst some player and they can't stand each other. Arsenal once had similar problems during Adebayor's time. Wenger gradually moved the players on. With players, the key is geting what you want for the season and getting rid in the summer. I know all the players involved and they will be gone. The club is bigger than any player. What the club must do is make this clear by making the players and their Agents know who is the boss. At Arsenal, I trust it will be done. That is not a problem, the problem is getting the players to perform for the rest of the season.

[Tunisian Gooner]

Gooners you're living in fantasy land if you think AW is not signing that 2 year extension.

This club did not do it's job in preparing infrastructure for a post AW era, if AW were just the manager frankly he would be easily replaceable but he's not just the manager at Arsenal. He's the DOF, in charge of the academy, scouting, head custodian, head electrician, head of foods and beverage department....

I maintain AW will not leave Arsenal holding the bag, the man does not like criticism but nor does he fear it. He will suffer through next 2 seasons at least, whilst Arsenal get their act together and commence long over due process of building every facet of the club around reality AW era will conclude sooner than later.

What is also clear is the idea AW well get a dignified ending is a nostalgic fairy tale. AW days as Arsenal manager will end with proverbial pitchforks and torches.

[anikulapo]

Given the rumours about our players and what happened after the game, things will get worse. In case you are not aware, the deep lying dislike/hatred some of our players have for each spilled over, there was a massive fight in the dressing. Even the Bayern players had to come and help stop fights. I heard some staff even went after the players in disgust at their lack of professionalism. I am told by a good source that Bould was throwing bottles at the wall, when he realised he could not kick the lights out of a player he confronted. Also told, the British players went after Sanchez who they cannot stand with his superiority complex. Heard it became a straight Ox vs. Sanchez fight with the other stopping anyone who tried to interfere. The whole this is just crazy.

Have I not told you before that you cannot fool players? They know who can play and those who are frauds. It's not a surprise that this is happening .

Wenger has not held people accountable or put his foot down and benched non performers. It's consequently no surprise that pent up emotions have finally spilled over . Good results paper over a lot of cracks but losing exposes raw wounds and I can only hold Wenger accountable for this ...

Funny thing is that if KOS had stayed in the game it would have most likely ended in a draw or a close win for either team ... therein lies the problem with this team, they are so dependent on key players to make the system work, rather than the other way around

[platinum]

Most people think what we need is a new manager..

I say we are good (the most consistent team in the league) but lack something. To make that final step you have 2 choices...

1. Rip it all up and start again with a new manager (In essence going into the unknown - Manure is our best reference in terms of what can happen after such a longlasting presence leaves a club)

2. Improve the structure around the existing manager so you can make that final step and put in place a structure that is ready for AW's eventual replacement.

I say if AW wants to give it another go how about improving the support structure around him, e.g a DOF to take the Sales / Recruitment / squad assesment piece off him...maybe a new Number 2?? That way he gets more time to focus on the team and these notorious mental issues we face at the turn of the year...if he does not want that then let him go.

In Arsene Wenger, Arsenal have the safest pair of hands in the league......we may look back in a few years when we likely become a yoyo club like the others and lament what a bad decision to let him go when he had a few years left in him.

It is a tough decision...

I have been involved in debates and the consequences of this change. Many now seem to agree we will not be in the top 4 without Wenger for a few seasons at least, with no guarantees of a return. But the whole idea of change is to get better, but even those who are staunch advocates of change agree, finding someone to guarantee Wenger's results will be difficult, they even say in the short term at least, it is impossible to find anyone to do better given same resources. I thought the whole idea behind change is to get better. There are no guarantees with anything but that doesn't mean you fear to dare. From a business perspective, it's safe to keep Wenger. 100% If I were on the Arsenal board, I'd vote to keep him. That's a vote for my pocket. From a sporting and fan perspective, it's clear that to get better, a new man is needed.

Given the rumours about our players and what happened after the game, things will get worse. In case you are not aware, the deep lying dislike/hatred some of our players have for each spilled over, there was a massive fight in the dressing. Even the Bayern players had to come and help stop fights. I heard some staff even went after the players in disgust at their lack of professionalism. I am told by a good source that Bould was throwing bottles at the wall, when he realised he could not kick the lights out of a player he confronted. Also told, the British players went after Sanchez who they cannot stand with his superiority complex. Heard it became a straight Ox vs. Sanchez fight with the other stopping anyone who tried to interfere. The whole this is just crazy. You and I share similar views on Alexis I think. As much as Ozil is the 'easy' target, Alexis needs to learn to play with others outside of just the German. With that said, it's not as if the British core has done anything noteworthy. The best Brit at the club today is probably Rob Holding, he reminds me of the famous back four. i.e. fearless & uncompromising, and I'm sure he's not involved in the fighting. When it degenerates to this level, you MUST question the coach. This has been bubbling for a while now. The personnel is there.

Now let us confront the realities of change. It means losing some of our best players, both young and old. If Ozil and Alexis go, Arsenal will remain. Here's a truth, if a new man comes, he brings clout with him too. If Tuchel comes and brings Dembele and Gotze, no one is going to miss Alexis and Ozil. You can bet on that. It means dropping out of the top 4 and we have stadium debt to pay. Stadium debt again? I thought we'd stopped talking of this like 5 years ago? You're talking as if dropping out of the top four is 100% guaranteed. I dislike these comparisons with United's situation. The only similarity is the time Ferguson spent there. I can give significant differences in everything about both situations. Arsenal's present issue is strictly a failure to get the best out of the material and resources available. It means being out of the top 4 for a few season because we do not have the money the other have, we also do not have an owner who will put his money. We also know, they will never sell to Usmanov. So where does that leave us. Kroenke is a 100% business man. Never say never with him.

There are rumours of Wenger being approached by PL clubs and clubs in Europe. Been the case for a while. I've been beating this drum for years. A move will do him AND Arsenal good. I really think he'll find the fresh air and lessening of responsibilities freeing to his mind. Barcelona will be hunting for a coach, maybe PSG too. He really should think of himself and put his 'loyalty' to Arsenal away. So we also can seat back as even more player walk out the door with him. If the replacement is a savvy mind like some of the names listed, I wouldn't worry about the new man's ability to lure in players. Arsene isn't the only one packing clout in football. If Aleexis and Ozil leave because the coach left then their heart was never here and they should be reviled for it as bad as people revile Cesc and RVP. If this is the change you all want, it will be interesting to see how many of you will be supporting Arsenal if it happens. I hope it does, cos then we will know the real supporters. Has United lost any supporters on CE? I think they've lost supporters globally with the gloryhunters but it's not like Arsenal was winning and winning.

I like your take here Osare. I don't see it as gloomily as you do though. I think sometimes in life, you just have to move on. Arsene saying that "it's not like Arsenal had five European cups before him" may be true but it is a microcosm of the malaise Arsenal are in. Yes, the club wasn't Liverpool or Man United but should Gooners be content being a challenger or be ready to aspire to greater things? It's a fine line between greed and contentment/appreciation...if Arsenal had been constantly losing out of silverware because the 'big' boys were always superior, it'd be one thing but that's not the case. Even when Arsenal has had shots at it, the club has lost out because of errors that stem from coaching or are a byproduct of the manager's laissez faire attitude. Loyalty made him, loyalty will sink him.

[platinum]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

You'd think it's just money that's been the issue. HOW has the money been spent. You hear people go on about how much Ozil cost, how much Xhaka cost, Mustafi, heck even Cech. What was the opportunity cost with those guys? Who were the others available for that price? Was there a firm ideology when buying those players? It's not just about the money. British clubs spend STUPIDLY, most of them anyhow. You don't need to spend ridiculously to win. We all know that. The framework is there for Arsenal, it's been there for years...getting over the hump has not been a money issue. Building a DYNASTY is when money will be a factor but you spend money to make money.

[Cristao II]

Unfortunately, every club the world over knows there's big money in the EPL. That dictates the price of players wanted by EPL clubs.
Arsenal fans are crying for some silverware. I'd suggest you change your manager if you think he's not getting the best out of the players you have.
But if one was to look at the spending by the top clubs for the current 2016/17 season, Arsenal spent 96m, placing them 4th. Chelsea the next team in 3rd spent 122m while the Manchester clubs spent in excess of 140m each.

If you have the 4th highest spending and you're shouting to be the top team in England, then I foresee a stormy days ahead. I think there will be blood letting if you spend a great deal of money like Man United only to end up in 6th place.
If you want to sack the manager for perennial 4th position, I hate to see what would happen if you drop below 4th having spent the most dosh in the league.
Be absolutely sure you want to change your manager and be prepared for every eventualities

Spending is not what makes a team win by spending ,yes it helps.A.Madrid has compete fairly with likes of Real and Barca year in year out the last 3 season and they have been in CL final twice in may be last 3 years then win Europa few years back.It was down to their coach building a good team even though year in year out they sell one of their best players.They have compete with better teams in Europe like Bayern and top the group why Bayern finish second.
Arsenal has a system and advantage over all those Chelsea,manu,city,spurs and Liverpool because of Wenger been there along time to set the team right.He had been trying to put a good team the last 3 or 4 years.We have the players to compete but Wenger seems to target top 4 and round of 16 in CL.When you spend money buying wrong players and some over price you get what you paid for.
Arsenal or any decent team don't need to spend crazy to compete.How much Leicester spend last year to be crown king?How much they spend this year to be in 17 heading toward Championship?It has a lot to do with the management and get the players hungry for success.Wenger doesn't hold players accountable for poor showing and set them wrong until when top 4 is at risk.Take Mancity for example buying players when they win lottery but could almost not make top 4 until Mark Hughes was let go and Mancini came then you could see actual big change money spend on almost better players and the application different.When Chelsea wanted to compete with Arsenal and Manu in league they bring in Jose a winner it play a better part.
Spurs now take the best road to put a good team with a good coach,the last 2 season your team is doing the right think and your team is doing great at the league.Look at spurs team and Arsenal how much each spend in their particular teams?Can Xhaka start for spurs if all spurs players available?Can Mustafi start at CD for spurs?How much those two cost?65 million that money could have bring 4 of such players or 3 better players.Look at Arsenal MF and compare to spurs MF or the back four.Check the quality and the amount spend.
If your team keep messing up in the next 3 years not at the race and finishing outside top 4 then your fans will demand new manager to take your team pass that level.

Yet most goons moan when Wenger refuse to spend. Yes AM competes but the big money guys get the trophies.
You might have the likes of AM but you should also know you won't win cups because they will find it hard to hold on to their best players.
Arsenal can go the same way as AM, try to build a team but no sooner you are in a position to win something, big teams will take them away from you.
The grass is always greener on the other side until you get there and it doesn't work out for you like AM. How many AM's do you have?
What we know is most times those who spend big, win big and I said MOST TIMES and not all the time.
However those who refuse to spend big win some of the time but lose MOST of the time.

One cannot but admire 16 or more consecutive CL qualifications achieved by Wenger. Yes you want more so you must make a choice - pursue more by changing things and risk getting even less or achieving more. Nothing is guaranteed but an interesting ride.

KPOM!! I cant wait for them to get their wish. These times will feel like blessed memories.

[platinum]

http://www.espnfc.us/arsenal/story/3062 ... -elsewhere

Wenger also defended his record at the club despite not winning the Premier League since 2004 and the team's annual struggles in Europe. Arsenal have never finished outside the top four in the league under Wenger, and he warned that not everything will be perfect at the club if he leaves.

"Look, as long as you do not win absolutely everything there is always something wrong and you have to accept that because you want always to go to the next level," he said. "On the other hand, in the last 20 years in Europe only three clubs have managed to play every year in the Champions League and that is Arsenal, Bayern Munich and Real Madrid and nobody else.

"That means if everything is not perfect, not all is wrong. Even if I go, Arsenal will not win every single game in the future. That is part of it -- you have to accept that, as much as it hurts to lose games.

"If you look at the history of Arsenal, Arsenal had less Champions League games when I arrived than I had in my career already, and since then we have done a few, so I hope in the future we can win this trophy, or Arsenal can win this trophy, but it is not like when I arrived Arsenal had already won the European Cup five times -- they had never won the European Cup.

"They played maybe 10 games in the history of the club so you have to take into perspective some demands."